Crossblooded and inherent bonus questions.


Rules Questions


Hello all. I have a few questions.

First question: Lets say I make a Crossblooded sorcerer with Orc/Abysal. Would the +Str bonuses stack? Would they increase beyond +6. Could that character use a +Str book to increase his Str further.

Here is what I am thinking. The bonus from a bloodline SHOULD be an unamed bonus. First inherent bonuses are supposed to be capped at +5 according to wish. However the Bloodline gives a +6 bonus. Second the benefit of a bloodline bonus is really just a bonus you dont have to purchase. If it doesnt stack with a book you basicly just saved some GP on a book but really gain little compared to someone who throws down some gold on said book.

Secondly in the example above you get no real benefit from taking Orc/Abysal... or say Stone/Infernal(Pit) because the bonuses wont stack.

If you change it to an untyped bonus then they stack, and you can still buy a book. But what do you think?

Second Question: If I make a Cabalist Magus is gains a bloodline. Can I take a Crossblooded bloodline with that? I guess my question is Crossblooded a Sorcerer Archtype or a type of bloodline.

Thanks for any advice.


No one. Anyone have any idea what the current rules are about inherent bonuses? I looked under bonuses in the srd and it isn't even listed as a bonus.

Silver Crusade

"Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies."

- D20pfsrd.com Wish spell description -

Liberty's Edge

The lack of stacking is deliberate to avoid characters with truly ludicrous ability scores.

Even without stacking those I could show you a character build that has about 40 strength (and another 10 if polymorphed, which they can do themselves).

Sure, this means that Orc/Abyssal could be considered sub-optimal. A lot of builds are. Sometimes that's okay.


Maxximilius wrote:

"Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies."

- D20pfsrd.com Wish spell description -

Well yeah that's the point I'm trying to make.

Quote:
"Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies."
Quote:
Strength of the Beast (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Strength. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.

It breaks its own rule. Shouldn't the bonus be something other then Inherent?

Liberty's Edge

No, the bloodline ability breaks the rule the item has. Class abilities break the rules all the time.

*sunglasses* Deal with it.


StabbittyDoom wrote:

The lack of stacking is deliberate to avoid characters with truly ludicrous ability scores.

Even without stacking those I could show you a character build that has about 40 strength (and another 10 if polymorphed, which they can do themselves).

Sure, this means that Orc/Abyssal could be considered sub-optimal. A lot of builds are. Sometimes that's okay.

Well yes, while it would lead to a higher ability score I wouldn't say its ludicrous... If it did all stack that sorcerer wouldn't get the +12 str until 17th level. That is an extra +6 to hit and damage. And once you add in the fact he has a weak BAB progression its not a big advantage.

I will admit my group tends to slide more towards the min/max side of gaming. In 3.0 I played a Sorc/Barb/Dragon Disciple/Frenzied Berserker with a 62 Strength. Played him for 4 years. DM never had an issue. But now Im the DM. I think I might change it to a untyped bonus.

What about the Cross-blooded for a Cabalist Magus?

Liberty's Edge

Dragonamedrake wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:

The lack of stacking is deliberate to avoid characters with truly ludicrous ability scores.

Even without stacking those I could show you a character build that has about 40 strength (and another 10 if polymorphed, which they can do themselves).

Sure, this means that Orc/Abyssal could be considered sub-optimal. A lot of builds are. Sometimes that's okay.

Well yes, while it would lead to a higher ability score I wouldn't say its ludicrous... If it did all stack that sorcerer wouldn't get the +12 str until 17th level. That is an extra +6 to hit and damage. And once you add in the fact he has a weak BAB progression its not a big advantage.

I will admit my group tends to slide more towards the min/max side of gaming. In 3.0 I played a Sorc/Barb/Dragon Disciple/Frenzied Berserker with a 62 Strength. Played him for 4 years. DM never had an issue. But now Im the DM. I think I might change it to a untyped bonus.

What about the Cross-blooded for a Cabalist Magus?

Don't forget that this is also another +6 strength for those that invest in Eldritch Heritage. A fighter has so many feats that (with a +6 cha headband so that they qualify) they have little reason not to take the feats for an extra dose of strength.

In short: The only people who want it to stack are those that will be making heavy use of it, and those are the very people for whom you DO NOT want to see stacking bonuses.

My rule with rules changes: Unless there is an extremely compelling reason to change it, it stays. Mechanical reasons hold less weight than thematic reasons (i.e. I'm more likely to change things that force players to make less thematic sense in the interest of being more optimal).

For example: I find it stupid that a sorcerer has to hold off on gaining thematically-appropriate spells known so that he can gain them when his bloodline grants them for free. If he does the thematically appropriate thing and takes them as early as possible he loses out on a spell known. At my table, you get may instead pick any one spell known if you already know that spell.

Counter-example: Falling rules don't perfectly match the real world as they use a linear damage scale for what should be a non-linear damage source (and the cut-off is a little on the low side, height wise). However, it's just not that important and would require a lot of extra effort, therefor I don't bother changing it.


StabbittyDoom wrote:


Don't forget that this is also another +6 strength for those that invest in Eldritch Heritage. A fighter has so many feats that (with a +6 cha headband so that they qualify) they have little reason not to take the feats for an extra dose of strength.

Well a Fighter can take Eldritch Heritage for a +6 strength. It takes 4 feats though. If he wanted to stack +12 str then he would need to take EIGHT feats. If I had a Fighter willing to take 8 feats for +12 str then by all means I would allow it lol.

But I can see again why most DM's would balk at it.


Dragonamedrake wrote:

Well a Fighter can take Eldritch Heritage for a +6 strength. It takes 4 feats though. If he wanted to stack +12 str then he would need to take EIGHT feats. If I had a Fighter willing to take 8 feats for +12 str then by all means I would allow it lol.

But I can see again why most DM's would balk at it.

Three feats.

Skill focus, eldritch heritage (1st level power), improved eldritch heritage (3rd or 9th level power).

Liberty's Edge

You can't take the same feats twice anyway.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
What about the Cross-blooded for a Cabalist Magus?

Yes, Cross-blooded is still an option. No different than wild-blooded. In cross-blooded, it limits itself on abilities.

Shogahin


I like the rule of cool over many rules but I also acknowledge that just because you got a 47 on that athletics role dose not mean that you can throw a football-sized rock into a drake's mouth from 80+ft away (actually had an argument over that). If anyone is willing to go out of their way to grab that thing for a very specific build or backstory reason, I would allow it. If it becomes a problem later, pull a wizard BBEG out of your ass as have him cast a wish to permanently weaken the PC. Also, allow the PC to replace the lost feats with something else.

Now if we are talking crazy, I built a custom mutant minotaur/tiefling/aasimar/dragon/oni/+a few templates so yeah, I dig crazy because it's fun and almost no one has done what I have done. In this instance, that is a minotaur abomination able to cast telekinesis at will and then hit you with the blessing of the sun after shredding you with his two-handed ax and kobold tail weapon that deals additional ice damage because the template says I can.

P.S. Not even close to the most OP in my party. That title belongs to either our super tanky master summoner or abyssal bloodrager necropolitan swarmshifter.


It's usually not useful to try and restart a conversation that's years dead. Also this is a rules question thread. Talking purely about your house rules generally requires some sort of invitation to do so.

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