Hey everyone,
I have a friend who likes creating archetype or character combos for fun. He never plays them, but he often asks me about them for his own amusement. One such puzzle he put before me was a Qinggong Sensei Monk. He believes that by the rules for spell-like abilities, it would take a full minute, but a 12th-level Qinggong Sensei can Restoration a whole bunch of people for no monetary cost. I can't see anything preventing this. Is this desired behavior? It also means an 8th+-level Qinggong Monk Sensei can Restoration any one person for no monetary cost.
The Qinggong Monk's 8th Level restoration is self only taking 2 ki points. How does your friend use it on others?
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The Qinggong Monk's 8th Level restoration is self only taking 2 ki points. How does your friend use it on others?
The Sensei, at 12th level, can when spending ki to activate a class ability, spend 1 additional ki to have it instead affect all allies within 30'. It seems like the qinggong sensei should be able to do an aoe restoration at no cost, then. Even though it is tagged as self only, all of the monk's base class abilities are self only. The sensei's mystic wisdom is designed to give self-only abilities to others.
EDIT: At no cost besides 3 ki points.
The Qinggong Monk's 8th Level restoration is self only taking 2 ki points. How does your friend use it on others?The Sensei, at 12th level, can when spending ki to activate a class ability, spend 1 additional ki to have it instead affect all allies within 30'. It seems like the qinggong sensei should be able to do an aoe restoration at no cost, then. Even though it is tagged as self only, all of the monk's base class abilities are self only. The sensei's mystic wisdom is designed to give self-only abilities to others.
EDIT: At no cost besides 3 ki points.
That's what I thought. I find that highly dissatisfying, as it kind of cheapens the sorts of things you use Restoration to remove (particularly permanent level loss which usually costs 1000 per pop). It'll see a house-rule in my game if it ever comes up (my friend is in med school and won't be playing this character, just thought experimenting).
Quinggong and Sensei are both monk archetypes. How do you combine two archetypes of the same base class?
Maybe i am missing something but i think you need no houserule. It is impossible by RAW.
Quinggong and Sensei are both monk archetypes. How do you combine two archetypes of the same base class?
Maybe i am missing something but i think you need no houserule. It is impossible by RAW.
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A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature. For example, a paladin could not be both a hospitaler and an undead scourge since they both modify the smite evil class feature and both replace the aura of justice class feature. A paladin could, however, be both an undead scourge and a warrior of the holy light, since none of their new class features replace the same core class feature.
That's how.
@LazarX: Restoration may not be a class ability, but Ki Power which is the ability you are getting as a Qinggong Monk, is.
By RAW I believe that you are correct, but I would not allow it due to the limitations placed on spells to Spell Like Abilities from the APG:
Major Spell Expertise"...If the spell has an expensive focus or material component, it may not be chosen for this feat."
The 100gp free-be for an 8th level Monk is not a game changer, the 1,000gp version as a 30' area effect, for free, is a game changer.
By RAW I believe that you are correct, but I would not allow it due to the limitations placed on spells to Spell Like Abilities from the APG:
Major Spell Expertise"...If the spell has an expensive focus or material component, it may not be chosen for this feat."
The 100gp free-be for an 8th level Monk is not a game changer, the 1,000gp version as a 30' area effect, for free, is a game changer.
What limitation are you talking about here? You quoted a feat which lets you take a spell as an SLA, but that isn't what is being discussed here. What is being discussed here is a specific class ability which gives the qinggong monk restoration as an SLA, and another class ability which lets the sensei monk use his class abilities on his allies.
What does the restriction of an unrelated feat have to do with anything?
Power levels within the game. Major Spell Expertise is a 17th Level (Minimum) Feat which cannot allow the pure spellcaster do what you are trying to do at 12th. If the 17th Level Feat did not limit the SLA to non-costly spells then I would say go for it.
So yes you can use this in PFS and if your GM allows it.
Power levels within the game. Major Spell Expertise is a 17th Level (Minimum) Feat which cannot allow the pure spellcaster do what you are trying to do at 12th. If the 17th Level Feat did not limit the SLA to non-costly spells then I would say go for it.
So yes you can use this in PFS and if your GM allows it.
Finally something a non-spellcasting class can do better than a spellcasting one, even if it is situational.
Power levels within the game. Major Spell Expertise is a 17th Level (Minimum) Feat which cannot allow the pure spellcaster do what you are trying to do at 12th. If the 17th Level Feat did not limit the SLA to non-costly spells then I would say go for it.
So yes you can use this in PFS and if your GM allows it.
The cloud step feat requires a monk level of 12 and a completed feat chain behind it. It duplicates the effects of a 4th level divine spell in an extremely limited capacity.
So by your argument (a at best tangentially related feat can restrict the clear language of a class ability from another class), does this mean that clerics and druids should not have access to air walk until they hit lvl 12 (instead of lvl 7), and that they should only be able to go up a distance equal to half the slow fall distance of a monk of equivalent level?
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A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature. For example, a paladin could not be both a hospitaler and an undead scourge since they both modify the smite evil class feature and both replace the aura of justice class feature. A paladin could, however, be both an undead scourge and a warrior of the holy light, since none of their new class features replace the same core class feature.
Where is this rule located
Where is this rule located
Alternate Class Features header, second paragraph, first sentence.
Good for him, he may yet save enough gold for his amulets!
Seriously, I would let it fly. It is powerfull, but so situational it really won't unbalance the game that much.
Also, any cleric can research something like Mass death ward as a sixth level spell around the same character level and save the same amout of gold to the group by preventing the level drain before it occurs.
Good for him, he may yet save enough gold for his amulets!
Seriously, I would let it fly. It is powerfull, but so situational it really won't unbalance the game that much.
Also, any cleric can research something like Mass death ward as a sixth level spell around the same character level and save the same amout of gold to the group by preventing the level drain before it occurs.
This is where I am, too. 1000gp is a ton to a low level character, but at level 12 it's not something I'd get worked up about. Especially when you consider how often it's going to come into play.
This is where I am, too. 1000gp is a ton to a low level character, but at level 12 it's not something I'd get worked up about. Especially when you consider how often it's going to come into play.Good for him, he may yet save enough gold for his amulets!
Seriously, I would let it fly. It is powerfull, but so situational it really won't unbalance the game that much.
Also, any cleric can research something like Mass death ward as a sixth level spell around the same character level and save the same amout of gold to the group by preventing the level drain before it occurs.
Not to mention the Sensei is giving up FoB, Fast Movement, and Evasion.
In a similar vein, can a sensei/monk of the healing hand resurrect everyone in 30 feet, and then use restoration to remove all their negative levels once he's recovered 2 ki points?
Cost: All ki points +2
Is this combination really all that powerful when we consider just what this kind of character gives up? He is trying to play at being a spellcaster using Ki Points and sacrificing his backup abilities both in and out of combat to do it. A straight up Cleric would probably eat him alive and take his stuff to pay for the cost of her own use of Restoration. I think the price is steep enough to avoid paying for one good spell that will see situational use.
In a similar vein, can a sensei/monk of the healing hand resurrect everyone in 30 feet, and then use restoration to remove all their negative levels once he's recovered 2 ki points?
Cost: All ki points +2
I'm down with it -- he's got to wait a full day to do it and even so he's late game to get it done.
Sure as heck beats the monk of the healing hand capstone.
That's what I thought. I find that highly dissatisfying, as it kind of cheapens the sorts of things you use Restoration to remove (particularly permanent level loss which usually costs 1000 per pop).
We have a paladin who can do something similar.. Lesser restoration once a day per ally, or sumfin like it.
If it's his thing, it's his thing :P(Yesterday it failed to do something because the damage was not temporary)
That's what I thought. I find that highly dissatisfying, as it kind of cheapens the sorts of things you use Restoration to remove (particularly permanent level loss which usually costs 1000 per pop).We have a paladin who can do something similar.. Lesser restoration once a day per ally, or sumfin like it.
If it's his thing, it's his thing :P
(Yesterday it failed to do something because the damage was not temporary)
So it wasn't damage right? Because damage is always temporary.
In a similar vein, can a sensei/monk of the healing hand resurrect everyone in 30 feet, and then use restoration to remove all their negative levels once he's recovered 2 ki points?
Cost: All ki points +2
I'm down with it -- he's got to wait a full day to do it and even so he's late game to get it done.
Sure as heck beats the monk of the healing hand capstone.
I found a use for the ki mat- he only has to meditate 2 hours.
I found a use for the ki mat- he only has to meditate 2 hours.In a similar vein, can a sensei/monk of the healing hand resurrect everyone in 30 feet, and then use restoration to remove all their negative levels once he's recovered 2 ki points?
Cost: All ki points +2
I'm down with it -- he's got to wait a full day to do it and even so he's late game to get it done.
Sure as heck beats the monk of the healing hand capstone.
Eh, the power is specific that you can't replenish Ki for 24 hours.
Eh, the power is specific that you can't replenish Ki for 24 hours.I found a use for the ki mat- he only has to meditate 2 hours.In a similar vein, can a sensei/monk of the healing hand resurrect everyone in 30 feet, and then use restoration to remove all their negative levels once he's recovered 2 ki points?
Cost: All ki points +2
I'm down with it -- he's got to wait a full day to do it and even so he's late game to get it done.
Sure as heck beats the monk of the healing hand capstone.
..Throws ki mat in trash can.