That is a good question.
Maybe there should be a "Domain Expert" feat that lets a cleric add one set of old-style domain spells to their list of potential spells (only if they have the domain, naturally).
Or perhaps the change was intentional?
|
They have already taken care of that. If you check the alignment domains for example, the 12th level granted power are the level 4 domain spells (they get to use them times times as compensation).
Some domains will be more difficult, like the Spell domain, but in most cases, the new system shouldn't be to distruptive.
|
Those spells could just be converted over to cleric x level spells. I doubt the spells are actually gone.
Furthermore, it seems like in the deity focus articles they're plunking down a couple of deity-specific divine spells for the god in question. (Or at least they have in the article on Abadar.) I wouldn't be at all surprised if this trend continues.
Maybe the 'missing' spells could be added to the cleric spell list, but only for clerics that had the appropriate domains. E.g. Take the fire domain, add the old 3.x fire domain spells to your cleric spell list.
That's the quickest and simplest way to do it that I can think of, although it's not entirely balanced. Some domains are simply much better than others e.g. under the rule above you'd get nothing from the healing domain.
It's in no way game breaking, but also it's not entirely fair. What I imagine is going to happen is that the cleric spell list is going to be revised and will include most of the spells from the domain lists, with suitable restrictions (e.g. no casting spells of opposite alignments etc.).
Thoughts?
Peace,
tfad
Travel domain loses out ont he spells Teleport and Dimension doors. This makes them a great deal less able to travel. :)
We're finding that at mid to high levels, the SLAs for domains are in no way comparable to the domain spells. The cleric was perceived as being too powerful in 3.5, and has been nerfed in 3.PF.
|
|
I have been trying to work with the new domains (though not in a real game, due to the players being unwilling to 'rebuild characters' until we finish Rise of the Runelords). I don't really like them.
One of the things I liked best about being a cleric was the 'special ability' I got at 1st level by choosing my domain. Now, it is nice that clerics gain a domain ability at higher levels, but the 'touch' ability at 1st level isn't really comprable to a domain power.
It just isn't as fun.
I do like that all clerics are getting to use the favored weapon of their deity. That's a good change. I think that it would be fun to see war domain clerics get something like weapon proficiency/focus in an exotic weapon (say bastard sword) as an example of an ability that is a good domain power. Likewise, I did like the domain abilities that grant extra class skills, though perhaps they ought to grant a couple more skill points/level as well. If clerics are kept at 2 skill points, but if they take the knowledge domain and gain all knowledges as class skills +2 skills/level, that would not be game breaking at all. Heck, even if they had a base of 4 skills/level (as I favor) that would be the case. Same with the Trickery Domain.
If clerics are kept at 2 skill points, but if they take the knowledge domain and gain all knowledges as class skills +2 skills/level, that would not be game breaking at all. Same with the Trickery Domain.
Nice! DeadDM, you and I talked about compromises earlier on the skill points thread, and you've just hit on one I'd back without reservation. Keep the 2/level classes (except fighter, who we all agree needs 4), but give the wizard and cleric an extra 2/level for knowledge or domain-related skills only. Great thinking.
Also, I agree as to the comparative "lameness" of the new domain powers, as compared with the 3.5e mechanic (our playtest cleric is in the dumps as well, and there's simply no rousing him yet).
If clerics are kept at 2 skill points, but if they take the knowledge domain and gain all knowledges as class skills +2 skills/level, that would not be game breaking at all. Same with the Trickery Domain.Nice! DeadDM, you and I talked about compromises earlier on the skill points thread, and you've just hit on one I'd back without reservation. Keep the 2/level classes (except fighter, who we all agree needs 4), but give the wizard and cleric an extra 2/level for knowledge or domain-related skills only. Great thinking.
Also, I agree as to the comparative "lameness" of the new domain powers, as compared with the 3.5e mechanic (our playtest cleric is in the dumps as well, and there's simply no rousing him yet).
I agree with the sentiment, the domains have initially been nerfed quite a bit from 3.5. However, the biggest impact is at lower levels. At higher levels the domains even themselves out with more additional spells/day than the old domains would grant. The Domains are not front loaded anymore, so they are attacking the power-dipping which I always disliked in 3.5. No more taking 1 level of cleric just for the domain powers/abilities, which were quite powerful, expecially at the starting levels IMO. (See Celerity Domain, +10 movement for my Monk, Ranger or Scout wooo!)
Further, with Turn Undead getting a HUGE HUGE HUGE boost the class has to be brought back to earth. I wanted to play test a game with 4-5 clerics around level 10 to see what it would be like to heal 6d6 hp 3-4x per day in a 30' radius. Add in Extra Turning feat and each cleric is healing 6d6 to the group 8x per day. -Dragon breath to the group? No prob... lets just have 2-3 of us use our turn undead ability to heal us back. (Rinse repeat as necessary).
This is a great question! The new domain abilities could be replacing the +1 domain spells only, or access to those spells as well. This could make "new" domain spells a much better mechanic, if the domain is simply granting access to those spells.
I agree with some above regarding a general downsizing of the strength of domain powers (3.5 powers vs. 1st level PF powers). However plenty of domains did not have very strong powers. For instance, the cleric in my RotRL game has Artifice and Earth domains - neither of those were particularly strong before.
According to a spells database I typed in long ago, there are four spells in the PHB that exist only in Domains (they don't appear on any core class spell list): Chaos Hammer, Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, and Unholy Blight.
According to a spells database I typed in long ago, there are four spells in the PHB that exist only in Domains (they don't appear on any core class spell list): Chaos Hammer, Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, and Unholy Blight.
There are any number that don't appear on the cleric's list, though, or that are a different level.
I'm in favor of allowing clerics of a particular domain to access their old domain spells as if they were on the cleric list. This gives some credence to varying speheres of influence among gods, and different religious traditions among churches.
The clerics should "lose" all access to the spells previously provided by a domain which was normally limited to a single bonus domain spell a day.
PF clerics receive numerous domains and domain specials in comparison to standard 3.5 clerics.
Perhaps but at least in the lower levels, with the replacement of spells by at will powers, and the fact that you don't have to choose one domain over the other for each spell level, the domains are MORE powerful now than they were before. So I'd really think twice about adding domain spells back in.
At higher levels, though, the domain powers, taken as a whole, are not nearly as good as domain spells: there are fewer of them in number, and the ones useable multiple times per day lose their effectiveness (most 12th level clerics have no use whatsoever for one magic weapon spell per day, for example, much less 6 of them). At 20th level, they even out again (the Pathfinder cleric getting the equivalent of two 9th-level domain spells), but few campaigns I've run have any 20th level clerics in them.
Low-level characters won't have access to most domain-only spells anyway, by virtue of caster level; high-level clerics, overall, are getting seriously nerfed by the new system. Overall, then, I'm inclined to add their former domain spells to their class list. And aside from the mechanical reasons just outlined, it adds cool flavor, too, in my opinion.
In the absence of a clear statement in the Alpha rules, individual DMs will obviously be adjucating this one as they see fit; the above represents my personal take (shoot, even if Paizo officially rules to the contrary, I can always houserule the above).
I cast Summon Jason Buhlman plus a Quickened Rules Clarification.
I cast Summon Jason Buhlman plus a Quickened Rules Clarification.
I don't think that spell works until sometime after sunrise...
In the absence of a clear statement in the Alpha rules, individual DMs will obviously be adjucating this one as they see fit; the above represents my personal take (shoot, even if Paizo officially rules to the contrary, I can always houserule the above).
Any DM can adjucate as he sees fit on anything he wants... it's his campaign after all. That's not to say I'ld play in every campaign (because many have house rules I can't personally stomach).
I think Alpha is clear in and of itself that the wrie up on Domains in Alpha 2 magic section replaces the write up on Domains in the PHB and other sources. So, the Domain Spell lists dont exist in Alpha2.
That is not to say that I agree with it and again you can house rule them onto cleric spell lists as you want.
That is not to say that I agree with it and again you can house rule them onto cleric spell lists as you want.
I intend to; I'm not as hung up on the "official" rulings as many, and have never been to a convention (where consistency in rules would be needed). As long as the players and I agree, we're all happy.
I cast Summon Jason Buhlman plus a Quickened Rules Clarification.I don't think that spell works until sometime after sunrise...
I also use my Rod of Extend. Plus a Hero Point. And a plate of cookies.
I also use my Rod of Extend. Plus a Hero Point. And a plate of cookies.I cast Summon Jason Buhlman plus a Quickened Rules Clarification.I don't think that spell works until sometime after sunrise...
The cookies might just do it...