Captain Base Class


Homebrew and House Rules

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I was thinking about making captain class losely based upon Lord Of The Rings Online class of the same name, with elements borrowed from 4th edition Warlord and earlier 3.0/3.5 attempts at such leader class for some time (a few years actually) but was lately goaded into action by Detect Magic comment in his Guardian thread.
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Captain
Role: Captains combine their strength at arms with ability to inspire and lead their allies.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Class Skills: Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge [engineering] (Int), Knowledge [geography] (Int), Knowledge [history] (Int), Knowledge [nobility] (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perform [oratory] (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) and Survival (Wis).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4+Int modifier.

Base Attack Bonus: Good Progression.
Good Saving Throws: Fortitude, Will.

Level.. Special
1......... Captain's presence +1, tactical strike 1/day
2......... Coordination, cunning grace
3......... Advanced tactics
4......... Tactical strike 2/day
5......... Bonus feat, captain's presence +1
6......... Advanced tactics
7......... Tactical strike 3/day
8......... Improved coordination
9......... Advanced tactics
10....... Captain's presence +1, tactical strike 4/day
11....... Bonus feat
12....... Advanced tactics
13....... Tactical strike 5/day
14....... Greater coordination
15....... Advanced tactics, captain's presence +1
16....... Tactical strike 6/day
17....... Bonus feat
18....... Advanced tactics
19....... Tactical strike 7/day
20....... Captain's presence +1, leader of men

Class Features

EDIT: Weapon And Armor Proficiency: A captain is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light, medium and heavy armor and shields (but not tower shields).

Captain's Presence (Ex): A captain extends commanding presence that bolsters vigilance of his allies within 20 feet that can see and hear him. The range of this ability extends by additional 10 feet at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter.
Captain's presence grants +1 morale bonus to initiative checks and Perception checks. This bonus increases by 1 at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
Captain's presence is suppressed when the captain is frightened, panicked, cowering, sleeping, unconscious, paralyzed, petrified or otherwise incapacitated.

Tactical Strike (Ex): Once per day, a captain can make an attack action against single opponent that delivers one of possible combat effects in addition to regular damage:

Spoiler:
Break Defense: The target is denied Dexterity bonus to AC for one round.

Close Opportunity: The target cannot make attacks of opportunity for one round.

Disrupt Focus: The target is distracted for one round and has to make concentration checks to cast spells or use other abilities that require concentration as if tactical strike was continuous damage.

Open Way: The target immediately provokes attack of opportunity from all the captain's allies threatening him.

Missed tactical strike is not expended and can be used again. A captain can make a tactical strike one additional time per day at 4th level and every three levels thereafter.

Coordination (Ex): A captain lends aid to his allies whenever he can. Starting at 2nd level captain can grant +2 bonus to attack rolls or +2 dodge bonus to AC for one round to one ally affected by the captain's captain's presence. Benefits of coordination are suppressed when the affected ally is unconscious, incapacitated, stunned or otherwise prevented from acting on orders issued by the captain.
Coordination is language-dependent ability that can be used as a swift action for a number of times per day equal to ½ captain level plus his Charisma modifier.

Cunning Grace (Ex): At 2nd level, a captain mastered optimizing his defenses against hostile effects and gains bonus equal to his Intelligence bonus (if any) to all saving throws.

Advanced Tactics (Ex): At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a captain selects one advanced tactic. Each advanced tactic expands effects of the captain's captain's presence, coordination or tactical strike abilities.

Spoiler:
Alerting Command: A captain can use his coordination ability to remove fascinated or flat-footed condition from one ally. Confused ally targeted by alerting command can roll twice for confusion effect on his next turn and pick the preferred result.

Coordinated Aggression: Whenever a captain grants bonus to attack rolls with his coordination ability, affected ally also gains bonus to damage rolls equal to the captain's Intelligence bonus (minimum +1).

Coordinated Defense: Whenever a captain grants bonus to AC with his coordination ability, affected ally gains temporary hit points equal to the captain's Intelligence bonus (minimum +1).

Stoic Presence: A captain's presence bonus applies to saving throws against emotion effects.

Focusing Command: A captain may use his coordination ability to grant one ally bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity and concentration checks for one round. The bonus granted is equal to the captain's Intelligence bonus (minimum +1).

Rallying Command: A captain may use his coordination ability to allow one ally an additional saving throw against charm, fear or compulsion effect that allowed saving throw in the first place. If this saving throw succeeds the effect is suppressed for a number of rounds equal to the captain's Intelligence bonus (minimum 1 round).

Regroup Command: A captain may use his coordination ability to allow one ally extra move. Subject of regroup can either make a 5-foot step as an immediate action or make additional move action in his following turn.

Rousing Command: A captain may use his coordination ability upon dying or stable ally to allow him to act as disabled for one round per point of Intelligence bonus (minimum 1 round).

Team Effort: A captain may use his coordination ability to share one teamwork feat know to him with an ally for a number of rounds equal to the captain's Intelligence bonus (minimum 1 round).

Bonus Feat: At 5th, 11th and 17th level captains gain additional combat or teamwork feats. They must meet all the requirements of selected feats.

Improved Coordination (Ex): At 8th level, a captain can choose to grant two coordination effects to one ally or one coordination effect to two of his allies with single use of his coordination ability.

Greater Coordination (Ex): At 14th level, a captain can choose to grant three coordination effects to one ally or one coordination effect to three of his allies with single use of his coordination ability.

Leader Of Men (Ex): Not yet implemented.

Captain's feats

Extra Coordination
Prerequisites: Coordination class feature.
Benefits: Character gains two additional daily uses of coordination feature.
Special: Character can gain Extra Coordination multiple times. Its effect stacks.

Extra Tactics
Prerequisites: Advanced tactics class feature.
Benefits: Character learns one additional advanced tactic.
Special: Character can gain Extra Tactics multiple times.

Extra Tactical Strike
Prerequisites: Tactical strike class feature.
Benefits: Character can use tactical strike one additional time per day.
Special: Character can gain Extra Tactical Strike multiple times. Its effect stacks.

As you can see its not quite finished: its capstone ability is missing and I am sure that more advanced tactics will be added.
Any comments, critique, judgement and playtesting is welcome.

Dark Archive

Is he proficient with armor, shields, all martial weapons?


Oops. Missed that line when copy-pasting. Thank you for pointing that.


Nice work drejk. Tactical strike/Advanced tactics... +1. I like the added feats too, especially extra tactics. My only comment is maybe dropping the HD to d8, and the co-ordination bonus to +1 at 2nd level with a progression that improve every x levels.


The captain has a lot of buffs and defensive options, but very few offensive/debuff options. I would recommend adding a few advanced tactics that lengthened the amount of time a tactical strike lingered on an enemy (until dead, an additional 1d6 rounds, etc.). You could even make it work for specific tactical strikes.

Also, you give the captain teamwork feats which I think is great. How about treating every ally within your captain's presence as if they had the teamwork feats you possess?


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Nice work drejk. Tactical strike/Advanced tactics... +1. I like the added feats too, especially extra tactics. My only comment is maybe dropping the HD to d8, and the co-ordination bonus to +1 at 2nd level with a progression that improve every x levels.

Lowering HD would also require lowering BAB. I don't feel that it would be required step (I might be wrong on this - this class wasn't tested yet in pratice and won't be for some more time until I manage to introduce captain NPC in my current campaign - and a warlock is queued before a captain already.)

I thought about reducing coordination bonus and making it scalable but it would require making it quite slow scaling, I think, as anything more than +3 at 20th level might be problematic with potential number of buffs already available. I'll consider changing it - maybe +1 at 2nd level, +2 at 11th and +3 at 20th level?

Sean FitzSimon wrote:
]The captain has a lot of buffs and defensive options, but very few offensive/debuff options.

This is one of the reasons why I don't think that lowering HD suggested by Oceanshieldwolf would be needed.

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I would recommend adding a few advanced tactics that lengthened the amount of time a tactical strike lingered on an enemy (until dead, an additional 1d6 rounds, etc.). You could even make it work for specific tactical strikes.

Yes, I think about them - as I stated there will be more advanced tactics and improvement to tactical strike are planned amongst the others.

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Also, you give the captain teamwork feats which I think is great. How about treating every ally within your captain's presence as if they had the teamwork feats you possess?

I added teamwork effort tactics specifically to make better use of the bonus teamwork feats but you might be right that it can be not enough. Maybe instead of selctable adv tactics I turn it into regular coordinate option to take the pressure from the captain to either pick Team Effort tactic or just get bonus combat feats instead of teamwork feats.


Early attempt at 20th levl ability:

Leader Of Men (Ex): True leader is not great. He inspires others to be great. At 20th level, a captain can take an immediate action to bestow a full-round action or one standard and one move action to one ally under effects of the captain's presence. Each ally can be affected by this ability only once per day.

I am of mixed feelings about this. It seems so powerful and yet not so impressive as for 20th level ability at the same time...


Drejk wrote:

Early attempt at 20th levl ability:

Leader Of Men (Ex): True leader is not great. He inspires others to be great. At 20th level, a captain can take an immediate action to bestow a full-round action or one standard and one move action to one ally under effects of the captain's presence. Each ally can be affected by this ability only once per day.

I am of mixed feelings about this. It seems so powerful and yet not so impressive as for 20th level ability at the same time...

I like it, but you're right: needs a bit of oomph. Perhaps also add that the captain and anyone affected by the Captain's Presence gains an additional swift action? As a 20th level ability it's pretty much within the bounds of what other classes get, and it's undoubtedly powerful (though not too much).


I like it. Definitely LOTRO-style (which is always a good thing; mmm mmm, LOTRO-goodness)!

Leader of Men is pretty cool, but it kind of comes out of nowhere. I think you should included an ability similar to the dragon order cavalier's Act As One at lower levels that he can use X/day, so it feels more organic. (It's fine, by the way - it's a 20th level ability, it's supposed to be powerful! An extra full-round attack for a melee-ally is great, and an extra extra standard/move for a spellcaster-ally is great.)

Presence is awesome, but I think it should also provide bonuses against fear effects. Along with Coordination, this is a great alternative to the performance-based commands you had mentioned previously.

Tactical Strike is pure awesome.

Cunning Grace is nice (from a previous paladin-based captain, perhaps?).

Pretty solid class. Awesome support that I am sure any group would welcome. With Combat Expertise and a shield build, could also make an excellent defensive character, too.

Nice work, man. Keep it up!


Detect Magic wrote:
I like it. Definitely LOTRO-style (which is always a good thing; mmm mmm, LOTRO-goodness)!

Argh, I really need to reinstal system, install proper gfx drivers and return to LOTRO :(

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Leader of Men is pretty cool, but it kind of comes out of nowhere.

It came from nowhere actually - I went for a walk yesterday and invented it while marching through sparsely populated border area of my city xD

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I think you should included an ability similar to the dragon order cavalier's Act As One at lower levels that he can use X/day, so it feels more organic.

There is regroup command tactic for cooridnation. I might add more. Or move it to general coordination options.

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(It's fine, by the way - it's a 20th level ability, it's supposed to be powerful! An extra full-round attack for a melee-ally is great, and an extra extra standard/move for a spellcaster-ally is great.)

Initialy I thought about extra standard action but it would benefit casters more than noncasters so I went with full-round action/standard+move.

The problem with it feeling overpowered and underpowerd at the same time is that it is very situational and party-dependent, like most captain's abilities. This is the beauty of leadership-focusing classes, I think.

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Presence is awesome, but I think it should also provide bonuses against fear effects. Along with Coordination, this is a great alternative to the performance-based commands you had mentioned previously.

Stoic presence advanced tactic. If I understand correctly all fear effects are emotion effects as well. I thought about making saving throw bonus against fear part of the basic presence but I didn't wanted to put it all at the same time. Group bonus to initiative is quitre big, I think.Note to self: More presence-related tactics are needed.

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Tactical Strike is pure awesome.

Have anyone noticed yet, that tactical strike can be made with ranged weapons and thus makes viable ranged captain's builds? I have a vague idea of ranger-general archetype for captain already.

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Cunning Grace is nice (from a previous paladin-based captain, perhaps?).

Actually, this is the paladin-based captain :)

Coordinate was designed as replacement for Lay On Hands and later Tactical Strike grew as replacement for Smite Evil.

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Pretty solid class. Awesome support that I am sure any group would welcome. With Combat Expertise and a shield build, could also make an excellent defensive character, too.

It was may intention for it to be so. I envision at least three possible paths for captains: sword and shield - strongly defensive, polearm wielder (why the hell halberd does not have rach?! how can we make decent captain without halberd?! it took me 15th levels to get that damned halberd proficiency... uh, wrong game...) - second line support and finaly ranged that would be focusing on support from afar.

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Nice work, man. Keep it up!

Awww, you made me blush :) (ok, maybe not, but thank you anyway).

I intend to add some tactics or abilities that would allow the captain to benefit from Intelligence more (like adding Intelligence bonus to CMB or CMD.


You could make Defense Break lasts for a number of rounds equal to the captain's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1 round). Giving the captain a bonus on the attack roll for Tactical Strike equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum +1) would also increase Int-dependence.


Detect Magic wrote:
You could make Defense Break lasts for a number of rounds equal to the captain's Intelligence modifier (minimum 1 round). Giving the captain a bonus on the attack roll for Tactical Strike equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum +1) would also increase Int-dependence.

I am thinking more about adv. tactic "Improved Tactical Strike" which would extend duration of break defense, close opportunity and possibly disrupt focus to one round per point of Intelligence bonus (minimum 1 - in case of the captain's Int being reduced due to damage or debuffs).

As for Int-bonus being added to attack roll of Tactical Strike - maybe instead of making that part of the feature make it a feat or advanced tactic that allows captain to add Int bonus to attack and damage roll of TS instead?

All in all I would prefer captain to be MAD with Int, Cha and either Str or Dex being the most important than making him into SAD Int-based class.


Granting an extra move action at level 3 is quite big.

Tactical strike offering no save (Absolute abilities are generally a bad idea, IMO) should be looked at. It's only really an issue with some of the abilities (Open Way).

I like the direction!


I wonder if adding Combat Expertise as a bonus feat somehwere between 1st, 2nd and third level would be unbalancing for such a low level. I would like to see Captains picking feats improving combat maneuvers and spending one of early feats for Combat Expertise as writen seems to be high price, maybe too high.

Cgeapy wrote:
Granting an extra move action at level 3 is quite big.

I think the same. I am trying to determine when it would be appropriate ability? 8th level together with Improved Coordination? And granting a standard action at 14th level with Greater Coordination maybe? Huh, balancing this will be hard as I rarely venture into such high levels when GMing.

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Tactical strike offering no save (Absolute abilities are generally a bad idea, IMO) should be looked at. It's only really an issue with some of the abilities (Open Way).

Is it really any more absolute than feint or grapple and pinning? It's more a matter of attack rolls versus saving throw dispute, i.e. should attacker roll for for attack or target roll for defense.

Also, Open Way is, like most of the captain's abilities, very situational. With party composed of four raging two-hander-wielding Barbarians, healer and Captain it would be absolutely devastating. With melee-impaired party it is absolutely weak...

Maybe if the Open Way was changed to allow one ally per point of the captain's Intelligence bonus to make an attack of opportunity it would not feel soo much powerful? Or even cut it down to provoking attack of opportunity from one ally (with adv. tactic increasing number of allies attacking)?

And for the end now, an idea for advanced tactic: tactical maneuver - after a successful hit with tactical strike captain may initiate one of the following combat manuevers as a free action: disarm, drag, reposition, sunder, trip.


8th level and 14th level sounds reasonable, considering it can only affect an ally once per day.
And it might look a little underpowered, but if you stop to think what some classes can do with two rounds in sequence it's actually pretty powerful. If it still seems underpowered for a capstone, maybe it could also allow the ally to regain his breath, healing him a small amount of hp when he receives the extra turn.


I like this idea, doesn't seem to under- or over-powered to me. One thing, what is meant by emotion effects? I understand fear is in there, but what else qualifies?

Also, I'd like to see one or two more abilities benefit from charisma. To me, this kind of character should be a charismatic Leader of Men, but only the Coordination is affected by it. Perhaps some of the Advanced Tactics could benefit from a higher Charisma instead of Intelligence? Things like Rousing Command or Rallying Command sound like they should be Charisma based.

EDIT: Another thing, Greater Coordination says you can give three coordination effects to one ally, although there are only two effects. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, and you could give the same effect 3 times?


Shane Gifford wrote:
I like this idea, doesn't seem to under- or over-powered to me. One thing, what is meant by emotion effects? I understand fear is in there, but what else qualifies?

Emotion is a new descriptor introduced in Ultimate Magic that is subtype of mind-affecting effects that that manipulate emotions, including fear and despair effects and many others: list of emotion effects.

Huh, now that I read the list it does not involve heroism and some other morale-effects.

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Also, I'd like to see one or two more abilities benefit from charisma. To me, this kind of character should be a charismatic Leader of Men, but only the Coordination is affected by it. Perhaps some of the Advanced Tactics could benefit from a higher Charisma instead of Intelligence? Things like Rousing Command or Rallying Command sound like they should be Charisma based.

Good point, indeed. Rallying/Rousing Command could be better as Charisma-based abilities and I need to add more Charisma-based abilities.

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EDIT: Another thing, Greater Coordination says you can give three coordination effects to one ally, although there are only two effects. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, and you could give the same effect 3 times?

No. The same effect cannot be applied multiple times to the same target (bonuses from the source do not stack rule) - I will add that to coordination description. Coordination itself has two basic possible effects (+2 attack or +2 AC) but advanced tactics add more coordination effects: Alerting Command, Focusing Command, Rallying Command, Regroup Command, Team Effort (which will probably be turned into basic coordination effect instead of adv. tactic) are new coordination effects that are used instead of either basic effects. I need to rewrite coordination/tactics to clarify that.


I see, that makes sense. Cool beans. I just didn't read the Advanced Tactics thoroughly enough.


Did anything come of this?


*sniff* someone rememberes me? *sniff*

I still haven't invented decent capstone ability. I am tweaking with Coordination from time to time as well but in general this class does not see much of my attention currently. I thought about rewriting Tactical Strike or replacing it with something else, that would not be "daily power".

Spoiler:
Getting cut off of Lord Of The Rings Online due to computer failure and inability to return to playing might been a minor turn off... Also, RL stresses tend to distract me this year more than before.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - nice work. I like this! There's definitely room for more ability choices under advanced tactics and the tactical aspects are wonderful... Don't lose faith Drejk!!! Heck, you finish it and people will make archetypes!!!


I would like to start by saying that I love the idea of the "battle leader" class. I'm the only person I personally know who played the 3.5 Marshall. My first 4E character was a warlord. Moving on.

Your class doesn't fulfill my hopes. I would like to see it affect the field of battle as often as a control oriented spell caster (not to the extent that it becomes tier 1 but, but with the same ease and frequency). I will ponder some suggestions, but I would like to ser more from this.


I think you should throw this up into a Google Docs and post the link. Easier to see updates as you make them!

An idea that could be really cool is that if you beat the monster's AC by 5 or more with an attack roll, you can treat all allies other than you as if you Aided Another them to help hitting.

Team Effort needs some clean up too. It latches on to Coordination, which can be used as a swift action 1/2 level + Int-Mod times per day. The ability itself lasts for Int-Mod times per day, so we're getting a lot of uses out of that. What happens if he spends a swift action to coordinate one ally, giving him a teamwork feat, and then changes the ally who is coordinated with? Does the original ally keep the teamwork feat for the duration?

The extra move action-as-a-swift-action also should be thought hard about. Yea, reiterating my post from a long time ago :p


I'll plant to post Google Doc link to finished version.

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An idea that could be really cool is that if you beat the monster's AC by 5 or more with an attack roll, you can treat all allies other than you as if you Aided Another them to help hitting.

Originally Coordinate was meant to be ranged Aid Another. I sometimes think about returning to that version.

Good point about Team Effort. Could get some reworking. Or maybe I should make sharing Teamwork feats a separate ability from Coordinate?

Scarab Sages

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When I saw the thread title I immediately thought of it as the name for a superhero:

Captain Base Class! Defeating evil - WITHOUT ANY FACNY PRESTIGE CLASSES!


Who else read the title and heard it in their head like Captain Caveman?


Confident presence: A caption may use his coordination ability to give one ally in range +2 + 1/2 your captain level temporary HP that lasts for one minute. At level 9, a captain may choose two allies instead of one to grant this bonus to. At level 15, he may choose three instead of two.

Also, I think that, in keeping with the lotr captain theme, some minor healing/divine casting abilities would be perfect. So I thought of this:

Beginning at level 4, a captain chooses a single domain, as in the cleric domain/ sub domain. The captain gains all spells, but not abilities, associated with this domain. A captain must have an intelligence score equal to 10 + the spell level to prepare or cast the spell. A captains spells per day are equal to the ranger spell list given on table 3-12. A captains spell list is extremely limited. He may only cast spells granted through their domain plus the following spells: cure light wounds or inflict light wounds, cure moderate wounds or inflict moderate wounds, cure serious wounds or inflict serious wounds, cure critical wounds or inflict critical wounds. If a captains chosen domain already grants these spells (as in the healing domain), a player may choose one spell to learn in place of the cure/inflict spell taken from the cleric spell list. They receive one such spell to learn per spell that is already granted by their domain/ sub domain. A captain may only choose one spell to learn, and this is a permanent decision. The spell chosen is subject to GM approval, and cannot be of a higher spell level than the spell being replaced.

Thoughts?


Actually I rather thought about adding more abilities that grant temporary hit points to allies, augment use of Heal skills or grant bonuses to healing used by others. Possibly even an archetype that focuses on augmenting healing, bestowing temporary hit points and damage mitigation.

I don't want to give the captain spells because then it would might be better (and simpler) to built it as Paladin's archetype that replaces Smite with Tactical Strike. I would like to keep this class mostly spell/spell-like free to make it a true martial character.


Another idea for tactical strike option:

Captain could declare a tactical strike against an opponent and after hitting initiate a single combat maneuver as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity in addition to regular effects of the hit.

It would allow adding some battlefield control by bull-rushing, repositioning, dragging, tripping and so on.

Also, possibly capstone ability could involve tactical strikes with two effects instead of one... Or maybe should that be available earlier as a feat or class feature?


Yah I see your point, but i still think your class needs a little more buffing ability, and a healing ability seems perfect to me. If not that than maybe....

United effort.: beggining at level 4, once per day, when any spell with the qualifier "equal to 1/2 your character level" is cast on an ally within range of the captains coordination ability, the captain may choose to let that ally instead experience the effects of the spell as if it instead said "equal to your character level." Beginning at level 10, this ability may be used twice per day. At level 16, three times per day.


Today, while on a walk I thought about revamping the tactical strike to remove daily uses and make it more mundane-like. What I came with is the return to idea of using Aid Another mechanic as a basis of the Captain's core abilities:
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Tactical Strike (Ex):
A captain can perform a weapon attack that will grant advantage to a nearby ally. Tactical strike is an attack action with melee or ranged weapon. If the attack hits the opponent, a single ally adjacent to the target gains one of the following advantages: +2 bonus to the next attack roll against the target of the strike, +2 bonus to AC against the target’s next attack or +2 to single skill check made against the target. This ability in all respects works as if the captain successfully used Aid Another action and benefits from any abilities modifying or expanding the Aid Another action.

As the captain advances in level he gains an ability to bestow multiple advantages with single tactical strike. At 7th level, the captain that performs tactical strike can bestow two advantages of his choice. At 13th level he can grant three advantages and after reaching 19th level he can grant a total of four advantages. The captain can bestow these advantages to single ally or spread them between multiple allies adjacent to the target of the tactical strike as he sees fit.

Coordinate (Ex):
A 2nd level captain learns how to instruct his allies from afar. He can use Aid Another action to help one ally within range of his captain’s presence. This is a language-dependent ability.
Some advanced tactics:
Advanced Tactics (Ex): At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, a captain selects advanced tactic. Advanced tactics marked with asterisk give a new alternate advantage that can be granted with Aid Another action (including through the use of Tactical Strike).

Focused Agression: When the captain grants an ally bonus to attack roll with Aid Another or Tactical Strike, the ally gains the same bonus to the weapon damage roll of that attack.

Focused Resistance: When the captain grants an ally bonus to AC with Aid Another or Tactical Strike, the ally can apply the same bonus to first saving throw instead.

Regroup*: The captain can use Aid Another action to allow the ally to make a 5-ft. step as an immediate action.

Word Of Courage*: The captain can use Aid Another action to grant an ally an additional saving throw against a fear effect. If the saving throw is successful, the effect is suppressed for 10 minutes.

Word Of Toughness*: The captain can use Aid Another action to grant an ally temporary hit points equal to the captain’s Charisma bonus (minimum 1) for one round. Dying subject of this ability also adds the captain's Charisma bonus (minimum 1) to stabilization check.

Improved Aid (Ex):
Captains exceel at providing help to their allies. At 4th level they improve bonuses granted by Aid Another action by 1. This improvement increases to +2 at 10th level and finally to +3 at 16th level.


Maybe this is just me but I like the daily uses idea more. More strategy as to when to use it...making more of a constant thing makes the class feel like a fighter archetype to me. But that's just me.


dbass wrote:
Maybe this is just me but I like the daily uses idea more. More strategy as to when to use it...making more of a constant thing makes the class feel like a fighter archetype to me. But that's just me.

Takes note for the future.

I have hard time justifying why you can't perform what is just a fancy combat maneuver more than once per day. I can understand short-term or long-term fatigue but it would require either something akin to an encounter power or even a separate mechanic.

Also, I see warlordish classes exactly as doing something constantly instead of a few times per day, in contracts to spellcaster classes that do bigger things but a limited number of times per day.

Hopefully more people will share their opinion about this matter as well.


Awhile ago I tinkered with the Cavalier class, removing the Tactician, Greater Tactician, and Master Tactician abilities in favor of a ranged aid another action. Was thinking of this class the whole time XD

I still love the idea, Drejk, and would love to see any and all evolutions of the Captain.


Detect Magic wrote:

Awhile ago I tinkered with the Cavalier class, removing the Tactician, Greater Tactician, and Master Tactician abilities in favor of a ranged aid another action. Was thinking of this class the whole time XD

I still love the idea, Drejk, and would love to see any and all evolutions of the Captain.

What do you think of the proposed change to Tactical Strike/Coordination?

I would like to know - if there will be lots of opposition to "at-will" tactical strike I will consider returning to smite/challenge number of uses per day.


I'm not quite sure how it works, to be honest. Is it a special attack action (standard), or can it be used during a full-attack?


Detect Magic wrote:
I'm not quite sure how it works, to be honest. Is it a special attack action (standard), or can it be used during a full-attack?

It's an attack action (standard). I specially made it using an attack action instead of separate standard action to be compatible with Vital Strike feats. I thought about making its a swift action that can be declared after a successful attack - so it could be used after a full-attack but I think that would be a bit too good. Now the captain has to decide if he wants to make a full attack or tactical strike.


In addition to the aid another effect, you should consider keeping the additional effects such as "Break Defense" and "Open Way" (usable x/day upon a successful tactical strike). They are really cool.


I will probably add them as advanced tactics or feats, assuming I will switch to at will tactical strike.

Now I started to think about combos, where using a certain sequence of strikes would grant additional effect... Duh, too much beat'em ups...


Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start!


I think at-will Tactical Strike is fine so long as it continues to require a standard action to attack and cannot be combined with a full attack. It's really not a very big bonus and it is the centerpiece of the class. And I agree with you that this class makes more sense with always-available features rather than per-day uses.

If in the end the balance is really that problematic, maybe drop it to only a +1 at first level, but it's always usable, and increase the amount later on.


Detect Magic wrote:
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start!

I thought more of D, D+F, F, D, D+F, F, HK+HP. Or in case of captain even just simple MK+MP.

Sovereign Court

@Drejk: I really like this. You've gotten farther with this than anyone I've seen.

I get your point about limited uses per day feeling weird for tactical maneuvers; what juice is it that's running out?

Maybe you can instead limit how often someone can benefit from it, or be hindered by it? You can only be inspired so many times per day before you get blase about it.

What I like is that few of these tactics require Move+ actions. In 4.0 I disliked that a Warlord traded his own actions for those of another character. I'd rather augment someone a bit by setting a good example, doing something myself.

Some more ideas....

* The Captain makes people more resistant to fear-inducing effects that don't give a saving throw, because they use a different mechanic. I'm particularly thinking about using Intimidate to Demoralize.

* I like making an ally move around a bit. Extra attacks would be too much, but moving is good. It's still pretty powerful because it can set up full attacks.

* If the Captain scores a major blow against one of the more significant enemies in the combat (not a random goblin), that could inspire his troops. You could trigger this with critical hit (threats) and blows that down enemies.

* I like the nonmagical temporary hit points. In fact, I like that this is a nonmagical class that does shine brightly enough to compare with them.

* Maybe an Orderly Retreat ability, to allow multiple party members to extricate themselves from combat? You could even have them provide each other with some protection, making squares threatened by allies count as unthreatened to other withdrawing allies.

* I also vote for some ability to temporarily bestow teamwork feats. The Cavalier class feature is rather disappointing, the Holy Tactician is a bit too much like a paladin aura from Diablo II although it does reach more people (good) and is flexible (good).

* How about some ability based on making a speech before battle? It's a tradition both in history and in cinema, and fits this class perfectly.


Ascalaphus wrote:

@Drejk: I really like this. You've gotten farther with this than anyone I've seen.

I get your point about limited uses per day feeling weird for tactical maneuvers; what juice is it that's running out?

Maybe you can instead limit how often someone can benefit from it, or be hindered by it? You can only be inspired so many times per day before you get blase about it.

In case of basic effects, like +2 to attack roll, +2 to AC, making a 5-ft. step and getting temporary hp for one round I don't think there is even need for making them less effective with time.

Quote:
What I like is that few of these tactics require Move+ actions. In 4.0 I disliked that a Warlord traded his own actions for those of another character. I'd rather augment someone a bit by setting a good example, doing something myself.

I am thinking about ability that allows the Captain's sacrifice own action to grant action to another character (or maybe single attack, to avoid three spells per round abuse) but it would be additional ability and not the core of the Captain's abilities, probably with daily limit.

Quote:


Some more ideas....

* The Captain makes people more resistant to fear-inducing effects that don't give a saving throw, because they use a different mechanic. I'm particularly thinking about using Intimidate to Demoralize.

I will think about that. Maybe I'll add it to Word Of Courage advanced tactic because I don't think that it would warrant it's own ability. Also, I should make some abilities that would enhance the Captain's ability to use demoralize.

Quote:
* I like making an ally move around a bit. Extra attacks would be too much, but moving is good. It's still pretty powerful because it can set up full attacks.

That is the intent of this ability - repositioning allies to let them benefit from flanking and full attacks faster.

Quote:
* If the Captain scores a major blow against one of the more significant enemies in the combat (not a random goblin), that could inspire his troops. You could trigger this with critical hit (threats) and blows that down enemies.

LOTRO Captain class, which is the main inspiration for this rendition, has a number of abilities that require "Enemy Defeat Response" - i.e. can be usd only after dropping an enemy. I intend to make some abilities that could be triggered as immediate actions after dropping an enemy, posibly with effects scaled with the dropped enemy's HD/CR.

* I like the nonmagical temporary hit points. In fact, I like that this is a nonmagical class that does shine brightly enough to compare with them.

Quote:
* Maybe an Orderly Retreat ability, to allow multiple party members to extricate themselves from combat? You could even have them provide each other with some protection, making squares threatened by allies count as unthreatened to other withdrawing allies.

Currently Regroup advanced tactics fulfills this role - I must yet reread rules for 5 foot steps if I interpret the matter correctly, but for now, I think that because the regroup grants 5 ft step outside of the recipient's turn it is not subject to limitation that one cannot take a move action and a five feet step in the same turn. If it happens that my interpretation is wrong then I would add a special clause to Regroup that the 5-ft. step granted by it does not count against that limitation.

Quote:
* I also vote for some ability to temporarily bestow teamwork feats. The Cavalier class feature is rather disappointing, the Holy Tactician is a bit too much like a paladin aura from Diablo II although it does reach more people (good) and is flexible (good).

Granting teamwork feats is planned but I have yet to determine good way for that ability to work. I know of Cavalier's ability but haven't seen it in actual play yet, as the only two cavaliers that appeared were NPCs (one turned from potential foe to an ally while the other was and remains honorable foe and fought duel against the party Fighter, hardly a possibility for teamwork feats to use, both happen to be Gendarmes by the way).

Quote:
* How about some ability based on making a speech before battle? It's a tradition both in history and in cinema, and fits this class perfectly.

Again, it is something I have on my mind, either as ability of the base class or at least for one of the archetypes but still haven't decided how to implement it.


I had a few Aid Another feats in the #16th issue of Pathways. The magazine is free too, so check it out!

It does look like most of the feats found their way into yours, in one way or another.

One idea I've been looking for a place to slot in is using up your AoOs for non-AoO things. Might be worthwhile to look into that.


Cheapy wrote:
I had a few Aid Another feats in the #16th issue of Pathways. The magazine is free too, so check it out!

I haven't seen them yet. I'll check and see.

Quote:
It does look like most of the feats found their way into yours, in one way or another.

I think that most of my ideas were rather obvious decisions once someone starts tinkering with aid another (by the way, I often forget that basic Aid Another action does not allow bestowing bonus to saving throw, also I think that Aid Another the best represent some actions that are not described rules-wise, like calming afraid comrade, etc.).

Quote:
One idea I've been looking for a place to slot in is using up your AoOs for non-AoO things. Might be worthwhile to look into that.

This is another thing I was thinking about but in more general way than just for this class - Bodyguard feat already started that (and was indirectly inspiration for the current version of Tactical Strike).


Just stopping by to say great feedback everyone and keep going Drejk!

I love the "Enemy Defeat Response" idea and the rousing words before batgle idea. This class is shaping up very well indeed and I look forward to seeing (and playing) the final version...

Sovereign Court

Pre-Battle Speech: action time here matters. Just saying a few words during a surprise round might give a small boost (maybe reducing flat-footedness?), but spending a minute rallying the troops before a massive battle could give a bonus that lasts for hours.

Detail: drawing a weapon during a battle speech should be free; drawing it and flourishing it is a good dramatic technique after all.


Should probably be surprise round only.


I'd consider having the big pre-battle speech give the group a small pool of hero points that can be spent by anyone who was there, to represent inspiration. There's precedent in a handful of spells that can grant a hero point, and I think those mechanics would be a good fit.

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