Monk Sensei Archetype - How much is advice like inspire courage?


Rules Questions


Hi there,

the sensei archetype's advice ability is written to be "identical to bardic performance". However, it is (Ex), not (Su), runs of wisdom, gives only 1 round per level, and - most importantly - does not state that it qualifies for feats or prestige classes.

So could you take the extra performance feat to get more rounds? Could you get into battle herald with it? Other prestige classes that require inspire courage? Do items that affect bardic performance affect it as well?

I guess the answer to all the questions above is "no", but you might judge differently. Probably it boils down to the question what "identical" means...


*bump*


You are correct, by RAW, the Sensei cannot qualify or benefit from any of those things.

On the flip side, you can use its ability in an anti-magic field.


The RAW makes me raw, especially in side-cases like this in which the RAW flies in the face of both player fun and logic.

You would be entirely correct to run the sensei this way.

But having said that, I'd rule it is a 'yes' to all of the above, if only because the severe limitation of the sensei's rounds per day of use makes the ability's use really spare and probably balanced therefore.

It also stands to reason that if the ability's function is "identical to bardic performance," that feats, other abilities, prestige classes, etc. should treat it as "identical" as well even if it isn't explicitly stated.

I say all this because, honestly, the guy who plays a sensei probably wants all this to be the case and would find it more fun to play the character if he could modify those abilities as if it were so. Plus, I'll not hold my breath waiting for any kind of official rules clarifications concerning the UC.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

I am bumping this question. I realize it has been asked before in various forms on the boards, but I'm hoping to build a character for PFS organized play and it'd be really nice to know if I'm only going to be stuck with Sensei level + wis modifier rounds/day of this ability, or whether Extra Performance is a valid option in Society play.


It's certainly not legal for pfs. It's advice not bardic performance. Also, unlike many other similar abilities (archeologist luck for instance) which specifically say they qualify for those feats, advice does not. I like the sensei archetype and have though of building one a few times, I just could never find a way that it wouldn't suck.


At the very least one could prolong the duration of the moral bonus (which is only the save bonus) by a trait. I think it is called community minded.

Apart from that I'd most likely allow it to qualify for feats and most PrCs but as this is the rules forum the first part is the important one.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Thank you!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

I guess I read this wrong myself.

A sensei’s advice is identical to bardic performance (using oratory), allowing him to inspire courage at 1st level, inspire competence at 3rd level, and inspire greatness at 9th level, as a bard of the sensei’s level, usable a total number of rounds per day equal to his level + his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).

This ability replaces flurry of blows, fast movement, and improved evasion.

I guess I thought when it said it was identical to bardic performance that qualified it for feats and such that allow bardic performance. Not sure then if that is just fluff or has any mechanical meaning.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Quote:
identical to bardic performance

This means anything that improves Bardic Performance will Advice.

There is a Dev post talking about "identical" things are those things and the example given is Channel Energy, where everyone has channel but each class calls it something different.


James Risner wrote:
Quote:
identical to bardic performance

This means anything that improves Bardic Performance will Advice.

There is a Dev post talking about "identical" things are those things and the example given is Channel Energy, where everyone has channel but each class calls it something different.

Can you point me to the dev post? I would be very interested in citing it for a character I'm building.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Here is a link


James Risner wrote:
Here is a link

Excellent! This seems to be a fairly good interpretation.

Advice (A) is identical to Bardic Performance (B). "A = B".
Some feats require or affect Bardic Performance (B). "B must be true".
If "A = B", then A should satisfy the "B must be true" requirement.

The only snag is that Advice is Extraordinary, while Bardic Performance is Supernatural. However, the statement "A sensei's advice is identical to bardic performance" would seem to take precedence.

Anyways that would be my logic.

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