Ideas for reversing undeath, curing undeath, undoing undeath


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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Hey fellow pathfinders,

I'm running a campaign for my home group - we've just completed the Price of Immortality trilogy which was AWESOME. They are now heading back to Kassen to return the amulet to the Crypt of the Everflame and put the souls of the dead to rest. While they've been away, of course, the Negative Energy which Assar unleashed has seeped out of the Crypt and corrupted the Fangwood forest. When they return via Kassen, they'll find the town besieged by a horde of undead - shambling zombies, gate-smashing zombie giants, and other abominations of nature and unlife. As a respite from the combat heavy end to City of Golden Death, I wanted them to find Kassen Mayor Uptal's young daughter corrupted by the Neg Energy and transformed into an Attic Whisperer. The scene will play out something like the Exorcist - with the girl bound in bed... using her father's stolen voice to get a PC to stroke her cheek, then biting them and stealing their voice.

My question - other than killing the girl and ending her torment - what are some ideas for reversing/curing/undoing undeath to save the girl's life? (It could simply be saved when the PCs fight their way back into the Crypt and return the amulet, sealing off the Neg Energy Plane from this world... but something interesting which will delight my players by revealing something of the magical/planar/religious workings of Pathfinder time-space would be awesome!

In short - how can you turn an Attic Whisperer (Bestiary 2 pp. 34) back into a sweet little girl?

Thanks for the help!


By the books, the only method is to destroy the undead (0 or fewer hit points) then cast raise dead or similar.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
By the books, the only method is to destroy the undead (0 or fewer hit points) then cast raise dead or similar.

This brings up another question.

According to Raise Dead (and similar spells) "A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell."

I've always assumed this meant that you can't cast raise dead on someone while they are undead, but it was recently brought to my attention that a quite common reading of the above is that, once a body has been undeadified, the creature can never be raised. I don't know which is correct.

(Also, completely unrelated, but I just noticed now while looking up Raise Dead: Yay for Ultimate Combat in the PRD :D)


Umbral Reaver wrote:
By the books, the only method is to destroy the undead (0 or fewer hit points) then cast raise dead or similar.

Actually Raise Dead wouldn't work, but Resurrection or more powerful might, though otherwise, this is correct, as far as I know.

For resurrection, the spell specifies "been destroyed", however the undead type does not: it's possible the "been destroyed" is only a fluff element (or legacy from an older addition) to clarify that most undead are not (while undead) willing, which the resurrection-recipient needs to be in order to come back. With careful diplomacy or other suggestive courses of action (including even Command Undead as a possible charm-like effect for undead, if you like) you could "trick" the evil undead into becoming "willing".

Hope that helps!


Undead condition is supposed to be worse than death, making it a reversible disease might downplay the horrific transformation.

A possible cure might not be a true cure at all but rather an artifact that keeps death at bay, possibly at a price. This might be the influence of a saint of a benevolent religion or a pact with an archdevil, having her sent off to a monastary to pay her due for the life granted to her, or go Diablo style and turn the girl in something far more scary over time.

Dark Archive

generaltwig wrote:
I wanted them to find Kassen Mayor Uptal's young daughter corrupted by the Neg Energy and transformed into an Attic Whisperer. The scene will play out something like the Exorcist - with the girl bound in bed... using her father's stolen voice to get a PC to stroke her cheek, then biting them and stealing their voice.

House rule that she hasn't been transformed into an undead creature, but possessed by one, which is immune to channeled positive energy while it is inhabiting her (as the positive energy washing over her body can't get line of effect to the undead, while the girl's body is 'in the way').

Solutions would include killing her (causing the undead spirit to lose 'cover' from her body) or finding a way to expel the creature from her body (feeding her holy water, for instance, or directly casting cure spells upon her, requiring the creature to make saves or be expelled temporarily, allowing a cleric a chance to positive energy channel the spirit to death while it's unable to take cover within her body).

While separated from her, it can have whatever powers you feel are suitable to the party's challenge level, functioning as a ghost, spectre, shadow, whatever.


Set wrote:
Great ideas, as usual.

Or, you know, you could also go with Set's idea, as it's really cool. Alternatively, you could say the negative energy summoned up a Shadow Demon, which is basically a negative-energy incorporeal demon made specifically to possess creatures.

Alternatively alternatively, with a specter, two castings of raise dead (or reincarnate) could destroy it - one to drive it out (non RAW, but cinematic), the other to destroy it (RAW). Neither of these would use the normal material components (unless you want them two), the latter being spelled out by RAW that it doesn't.

EDIT: To clarify, with the specter, you could even have the specter possessed by the demon, allowing the demon to possess the girl. There's nothing, to my knowledge, preventing that from happening, if the specter simply shares the space with the girl (not making any touch attacks, thus not killing her). That is, if you want (mostly?) RAW justification. Of course, I might have something off there, but that's just an idea.

Also, for precedent, when a Juju oracle charms, dominates, or the like, it looks undead and often acts like one, so that could be the result of her appearance.

If you wanted to make it really hideous and powerful, but also defeatable, simply say the negative energy transformed her, but since it was directly from living to undead (with no dead inbetween) she can be returned with a powerful-enough magic (i.e. raise dead or reincarnation) - basically it does nothing but drive the evil spirit out (or, if you prefer, destroy it) while returning her to her "pre-undead" state.


Tacticslion wrote:
Set wrote:
Great ideas, as usual.

Or, you know, you could also go with Set's idea, as it's really cool. Alternatively, you could say the negative energy summoned up a Shadow Demon, which is basically a negative-energy incorporeal demon made specifically to possess creatures.

Alternatively alternatively, with a specter, two castings of raise dead (or reincarnate) could destroy it - one to drive it out (non RAW, but cinematic), the other to destroy it (RAW). Neither of these would use the normal material components (unless you want them two), the latter being spelled out by RAW that it doesn't.

EDIT: To clarify, with the specter, you could even have the specter possessed by the demon, allowing the demon to possess the girl. There's nothing, to my knowledge, preventing that from happening, if the specter simply shares the space with the girl (not making any touch attacks, thus not killing her). That is, if you want (mostly?) RAW justification. Of course, I might have something off there, but that's just an idea.

Also, for precedent, when a Juju oracle charms, dominates, or the like, it looks undead and often acts like one, so that could be the result of her appearance.

If you wanted to make it really hideous and powerful, but also defeatable, simply say the negative energy transformed her, but since it was directly from living to undead (with no dead inbetween) she can be returned with a powerful-enough magic (i.e. raise dead or reincarnation) - basically it does nothing but drive the evil spirit out (or, if you prefer, destroy it) while returning her to her "pre-undead" state.

Very cool ideas - I'm inspired. I'm liking going with the possession aspect rather than her suffering undeath - and a Shadow Demon makes sense - it's CR7 (party is all level 7), and I like the shadow blend and sunlight powerlessness special qualities - it should make for a nuanced, interesting encounter where the environment plays a key role with light and shadow. Thanks guys.

1 question Tacticslion

Tacticslion wrote:
Neither of these would use the normal material components (unless you want them two), the latter being spelled out by RAW that it doesn't.

What do you mean by this? How would one avoid paying the diamond worth 10,000 gp for resurrection or the oils worth 1,000 gp for reincarnation? This might be an avenue the PCs want to explore, and finding those components could spur a side trek. Thanks for the help.


I would suggest that you could look at having the players help the mayor in a ritual to return the girls soul to her body but keep her as undead (a curse but at least she would be herself mentally)Maby introduce a JuJu Oracle to perform the ritual (even though they normally couldnt do this it would be some added flavor and some fun). Then have the players start on a quest to find a way to remove the undead aspect (an artifact, high level spell (true rez), etc) This would be how I would play it out.


I believe only the true resurrection spell will do this.

I'd totally understand if you'd rather do something with more flavor. Raising someone from undeath should be more elaborate than a single 9th level spell. I've been working on some different ideas myself. =)


Sub-Creator wrote:

I believe only the true resurrection spell will do this.

I'd totally understand if you'd rather do something with more flavor. Raising someone from undeath should be more elaborate than a single 9th level spell. I've been working on some different ideas myself. =)

Actually, resurrection works too. That makes it the casting of a seventh level spell. EVEN LESS EPIC, YES! Wait... ;)

Also, as for how they'd avoid the material components, what I meant was, in the spectre's entry (wight too, for that matter), it specifies:

Resurrection Vulnerability (Su) wrote:


A raise dead or similar spell cast on a spectre destroys it (Will negates). Using the spell in this way does not require a material component.

That said, you might be using a shadow demon, so, that's a whole 'nother ball-game. If Juju style magic is involved, all the more reason to get those nitty-gritty things like components - which are classic Juju tropes. Otherwise: make them get the components, 'cause that's how this one works!

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