Barbarian and gestalt: surprise me


Advice


So like the title is saying: I'm actually a Gm in a new Gestalt game and most of my players havent done some superpower combo, just regular stuff. Its fine by me (easier to dm and more fun at the same times) but since I'm always the kind of guy to play the mage (since no one is able to play one correctly in the people I know)but i always wanted to make a big stupid fighter.

Since I got the context, I want to see what kind of build a barbarian/something can pull as a super fighter in gestalt. Hit hard! thats the goal.

Any Idea?


Barbarian/rogue with the Shatter Defenses line, the Knife Fighter archetype and two-weapon fighting... with the Come and Get Me rage power. Move in, Dazzling Display with Shatter Defenses, then leave yourself open with Come and Get Me. Plenty of AoOs, all getting sneak attack.

Also pick up anything that lets you Intimidate on attacks, or as a free action.


Gestalt with Alchemist if you can spare a few points into Int. A 14 Int should be plenty even if it costs you a bit of Str. Your mutagen can make up for it without much problem, and you can have bombs for a ranged option too. Infusions give you some self buffing before you rage and some self healing after the fight is done.


Oracle of Metal with the Lame curse.

How this has not been suggested yet is a mystery to me.


The Barbarian//Bard is my absolute favorite gestalt combination, for flavor and power alike. Barbarians can already buff themselves to the clouds with rage and rage powers. Now add in the bard, who can buff himself and the rest of the party- eventually with just a swift action. The bard-arian ends up being a character who simply doesn't miss thanks to its stupidly high attack bonuses. Just a core bard offers Arcane Strike, which is just free damage if you haven't used your swift action, and Haste, which is downright amazing for any weapon user. It also shores up a weak reflex & will save.

Mixed with specific archetypes you get a very powerful character:

Arcane Duelist: Grants a series of anti-spellcaster feats that help you against those pesky magic users, and replaces suggestion with Blade Thirst. While the ability is generally weaker than Inspire Courage it does offer Ghost Touch (when fighting incorporeal baddies) and speed (when you don't have time to cast Haste, or only need a single round of it).

Dervish Dancer: An odd choice, but it grants the Barbarian some serious mobility options, a would-be haste song that gets pretty powerful in the higher levels, and a spring attack ability that could be amazing in certain combats or combined with a reach weapon.

Dirge Bard: Keeps the basic benefits of the bard, minus the skill versatility, and gains the ability to raise a skeleton/zombie of a slain enemy through performance. There's a lot to be said about a Barbarian slamming through a tough opponent and then having the opponent rise from the dead and assist in the barbarian's assault while the barbarian continues to decimate.

Savage Skald: While most of what the class offers is useless, the 12th level ability Berserkergang can grant you DR +5/- to your already excellent DR. Perfect for those low-damage, high-count attack enemies or when healing is starting to run low.

Just some thoughts.


If Hitting Hard is the goal, then there's two ways to do it, in my opinion:

The first is barbarian // dragoon fighter. Use a lance and get +4 to hit, +7 to damage just from weapon training, plus access to all the nice fighter feats (such as Penetrating Strike), and the advantages of both a reach weapon and the ability to attack adjacent with the same weapon. You can combine this with the gladiator archetype for extra cool factor; you don't really lose anything by it, since rage pretty much replaces bravery, and you aren't going to use heavy armor or tower shields anyway. For extra synergy, go with the mounted fury barbarian archetype, so you can use the full extent of the dragoon's higher level abilities.

Alternatively, go with barbarian // vivisectionist alchemist, and stack Strength sky-high with mutagens and rage. Sneak attack on a full BAB character is monstrous, and mutagens stack with rage. This will do more damage than the above build in most situations, and it's more versatile, but the theme is harder to justify for the traditional good or neutral character. It works great as a Hannibal Lector type psychopath, but those aren't normally welcome in parties.


One that I liked as soon as I saw it, is Barbarian with at least the Beast Totem line gestalt with Scout archetype Rogue. Get sneak attack when you charge, get pounce when you charge.

Silver Crusade

Barbarian/Summoner

Because then you can get your rage on while you get your Stand on.


I agree with the BardBarian Combo. A lot of awesome options. You can take Urban Barbarian and Dervish dancer. Build right for some amazing attack/skill/save rerolls with the Bard support spells. Get a different totem line over beast and still move and make full attacks. Skills, flavor, buffed ref and will saves. Truly epic.


Ancestors mystery oracle and spirit totem. REALLY play up the spirit angle.


Barbarian/Monk. Self explaining really. Always wanted to play that. Of course, the DM is gonna have to wave the Lawful and Chaotic condition, still, powerful combination.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Xum wrote:
Barbarian/Monk. Self explaining really. Always wanted to play that. Of course, the DM is gonna have to wave the Lawful and Chaotic condition, still, powerful combination.

Using the Martial Artist archetype takes care of that.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Revan wrote:
Xum wrote:
Barbarian/Monk. Self explaining really. Always wanted to play that. Of course, the DM is gonna have to wave the Lawful and Chaotic condition, still, powerful combination.
Using the Martial Artist archetype takes care of that.

Good catch there mate, and it gets even BETTER cause now you get imune to fatigue at 5th level, and you know what that means, right?

Probably the strongest possible combination for a melee character.

Edit: Martial Artist needs some serious errata though, how come they don't get ki pool, but have abundant step for instance.


Lots of good idea here. I must admit the one with the dragoon and the monk are pretty impressive. Im just curious why no one would take barbarian/fighter (except for dragoon) with some classic build like 2h sword or great axe with tons of feats.

Is there a reason for that?


Foxdie13 wrote:

Lots of good idea here. I must admit the one with the dragoon and the monk are pretty impressive. Im just curious why no one would take barbarian/fighter (except for dragoon) with some classic build like 2h sword or great axe with tons of feats.

Is there a reason for that?

Mostly because they share the same party "role", and traditionally the best way to use gestalt is to mix roles; in other words, to take advantage of the fact that you use the higher of BAB, saves, etc. By overlapping two full BAB, Fort-only classes, you're losing out on a lot of the benefits of Gestalt play.

That said, a plain jane barbarian // fighter will wreck face in a nice, straightforward, no frills manner. You WILL hit, and the enemy WILL feel it. You can even go with mithral heavy armor later on since you have the proficiency for it, and have a good AC where most barbarians won't.


The oracle or martial artist's ability to ignore fatigue at level 5 is almost game breakingly powerful, even for a gestalt game. Never mind all the other awesome things those classes are bringing.


for races, you will want to be human, half orc, or half elf (so that getting 2 favored classes is possible. Either as a half elf you get 2, or you can take the feat eclectic to get a 2nd favored class.


You cannot get favored class benefits from more than one class per level. Remember, with gestalt, you only get the benefit of the "faster advancement" on each side of the gestalt. That's "favored class" or "favored class", not "favored class x2".


I had been of the mind that, favored class abilities do not overlap if they give different kinds of bonuses.


I've always liked the idea of a Gestalt Barbarian with a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. It's a way to get your strength ridiculously high, and you can freakin' turn into a DRAGON with pounce and rage with pretty much near full casting.


thepuregamer wrote:
I had been of the mind that, favored class abilities do not overlap if they give different kinds of bonuses.

Yes, they do. The benefit is still "favored class bonus". It's just like if (for example, I know it isn't possible) you were to gestalt Fighter // Fighter; you don't get two bonus [combat] feats every other level, even though each bonus feat would be used to pick a different actual feat.

EDIT: Besides, technically you only have one class, "barbarian-gestalt-fighter" or whatever. The rule is actually for combining two classes into one; most people just treat them as separate for simplicity's sake.


Oterisk wrote:
I've always liked the idea of a Gestalt Barbarian with a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. It's a way to get your strength ridiculously high, and you can freakin' turn into a DRAGON with pounce and rage with pretty much near full casting.

That would be hard, except if your GM really likes you. The reason is that when your playing gestalt, only a few/no prestige class is allowed. You can take stuff like duelist, who is just a different fighter type, but you cant take prestige like mystic theurge, which give you 2 class at the same time, except if you take your 2 slot at the same time.


Foxdie13 wrote:
Oterisk wrote:
I've always liked the idea of a Gestalt Barbarian with a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. It's a way to get your strength ridiculously high, and you can freakin' turn into a DRAGON with pounce and rage with pretty much near full casting.
That would be hard, except if your GM really likes you. The reason is that when your playing gestalt, only a few/no prestige class is allowed. You can take stuff like duelist, who is just a different fighter type, but you cant take prestige like mystic theurge, which give you 2 class at the same time, except if you take your 2 slot at the same time.

Ah, well, abyssal Sorcerer should do the trick then, +6 bonus to strength, full casting, and can turn into a dragon anyway if he picks the right spell.


Prestige classes are allowed just fine. Only "multi-class prestige classes" like eldritch knight and mystic theurge are disallowed, and even those are stupid to disallow. As long as you follow the "only the fastest progression counts" rule, there's no danger in using that type of prestige classes. I say this as someone who's been playing in gestalt campaigns continually for the last 6 or 7 years; you'll find that a barbarian // rogue is 10 times more disruptive than an eldritch knight // anything. EDIT: And dragon disciple isn't really a multi-class prestige class, so it should be fine anyway.

At one point we banned dual-casting gestalts (ie wizard // cleric, etc), but we've reverted that ban and switched to a ban on full BAB + sneak attack, because the one barbarian // rogue we had (and this was before the APG, so just the core rulebook here) simply demolished everything in a round, and the dual casters didn't really have much higher absolute power, just more variety and magical endurance.


Ah not an alchemist/ witch that can make nonalchemists nauseated for one hour. Use the spell beguiling gift with your mutagen can cause this. Actually you could make it a cognatagen to get more bonus to int.


Barbarian + Barbarian of course: able to use multiple otherwise conflicting archetypes and get two totem trees. Seriously sexy.


LoreKeeper wrote:

Barbarian + Barbarian of course: able to use multiple otherwise conflicting archetypes and get two totem trees. Seriously sexy.

Not sure if serious.

You have to choose two different classes for gestalt.


Oterisk wrote:
I've always liked the idea of a Gestalt Barbarian with a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. It's a way to get your strength ridiculously high, and you can freakin' turn into a DRAGON with pounce and rage with pretty much near full casting.

I statted up one of those once. Went for all the overrun feats & rage powers too; he ended up as this horrible draconic wrecking ball that can charge across an entire group of enemies, attack them all on the way, and still pounce at the far end.

Flavor-wise, it fits particularly well with a standard D&D white dragon.

Fighter, Ranger, and Bard are all good combinations as well. It's also worth noting that, with gestalt, you don't need the other side of your levels to be able to stand on their own; for example, one could take a few levels of cleric and bard and ranger, and then entire spymaster prestige class - and as long as you've got your straight-classed barbarian on the other side of the gestalt, you'll still have a perfectly viable character. (Though the explanation of how you've got a spymaster / barbarian should be an interesting one to hear...)


since you are mixing in other non-PF stuff, go Trailblazer Fighter + Barbarian with a Great Axe, 2D8 with the axe, plus weapon mastery and all that jazz. I'm currently doing a gestalt Fighter + Inquisitor with a Executioner's axe and can pump out mid 30's for damage on a normal swing at 5th level. Add in raging and focusing on just one big swing and I'm sure it will get rediculous.

Liberty's Edge

Emerald Wyvern wrote:
Oterisk wrote:
I've always liked the idea of a Gestalt Barbarian with a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. It's a way to get your strength ridiculously high, and you can freakin' turn into a DRAGON with pounce and rage with pretty much near full casting.

I statted up one of those once. Went for all the overrun feats & rage powers too; he ended up as this horrible draconic wrecking ball that can charge across an entire group of enemies, attack them all on the way, and still pounce at the far end.

Flavor-wise, it fits particularly well with a standard D&D white dragon.

Fighter, Ranger, and Bard are all good combinations as well. It's also worth noting that, with gestalt, you don't need the other side of your levels to be able to stand on their own; for example, one could take a few levels of cleric and bard and ranger, and then entire spymaster prestige class - and as long as you've got your straight-classed barbarian on the other side of the gestalt, you'll still have a perfectly viable character. (Though the explanation of how you've got a spymaster / barbarian should be an interesting one to hear...)

I 3rd Barbarian and Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. Would be an awesome combo imo. If not that, Id go for using Rogue, Fighter, or Ranger.


There are several ways to build such a beast. SO it really comes down to what you intend on playing.

One avenue already suggested involves the need for your secondary class to gain immunity to fatigue. There are numerous ways to do that, be it the monk archetype or oracle with lame curse, or…

This allows you to perform rage powers every round, even if specifically called out as once per rage. So oracle would probably be a favorite of mine, plus it’s really thematic. Be the real rage prophet without the need to dilute your barbarian progression. Grab the actual PrC if you wish after several oracle levels. Didn’t run the numbers but that sounds solid.

The other way I’d like to explore but would either need GM cooperation or some barbarian archetype I did not see : Barbarian/Paladin. You get the mercy removing fatigue so you can pretty much set yourself as a fast regen (LoH) damage dealing machine that pulls once per rage tricks whenever (baring LoH charges) he wishes. Plus imagine the saves if you grab Superstitious…

Anyone has a good idea to get massive Fast healing from secondary class? I have a Holy Rager in mind, Invulnerable rager + beast totems + either LoH on self or fast healing… sounds like the perfect Wolverine to me.


If it's going to be a higher level game, I heartily recommend the previously mentioned barbarian/alchemist combination, trading alchemist out for Master Chymist when appropriate to pick up the advanced mutagen that increases your size category. Quite a fun brute.

On the opposite size end of the spectrum, I also heartily recommend a halfling barbarian/cavalier with the rage power tree that lets your mount rage when you do. If you can squeak the beast totem tree in there too, you AND your mount can both pounce on a charge attack. Highly mobile, very fun.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Yeah, barbarian/alchemist would be pretty nasty I think.


Dotted


Invulnerable Rager/Antipaladin


I second the barbarian rogue idea. All of the hitting power of bar-bar-barian and the skills and sneak attack of the rogue. Rolled into one lovely package.

Or what I call the Conan build: 20 barbarian on one-side and 10 fighter/10 rogue on the other side. Not quite as many skills or sneak attack dice, but extra feats galore, plus weapon training, armor training, bravery, and did I mention the feats? The fighter only feats?

Another favorite is Barbarian/Ranger. Very similar to the Rogue, except you get favored enemy, favored terrain, and an animal companion. Good thematically too, since both classes tend to be outdoorsy types.

Master Arminas


Ooh... how about Superstitious Mounted Fury 20/Scout 8/Rage ChemistVivisectionist 10/Lame Battle Oracle 2?

sure it's hella MAD, but you get the Pounce Sneak Attack, the Mutagens, and invulnerability to Fatigue

Your feats will consist primarily of mounted combat feats and two weapon fighting feats. You'll dual wield lances. You can cause you'll have an epic ride bonus. If you can, you'll also take Eldritch Heritage Orc.


Wow thanks a lot for the suggestion...must admit the barb paly is really cool...strong and pretty cool rp wise....seems like a fanatic to me.

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