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Hi all, I am playing a 3.5 DnD game and I will be rolling a monk. I know, first thing most are thinking is'don't do it!' It's a crazy idea, as they are an unloved child of the game, but to be honest, in 3.5 core most the classes are depressing, so I thought I could have some fun playing the underdog.
So, I was hoping some people could give me some help with the char to make him as good as he can be.
He will be lvl 5, if lucky he may have Bracers of Armour +1, and the party does have an Amulet of the Mighty Fist he could use (thanks to random loot done at the beginning).
Stat wise we rolled and so including the lvl 4 stat increase the numbers are in the monks favour.
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 11
I can move those numbers around though I am in favour of high Str for some damage. Race choices are limited (sadly no Half-Orc) but I could go Elf to get 18 Dex, though obviously would lose some Con.
If I am allowed, at 6 I will try and get Improved Natural Weapon Feat from the Monster Manual to get my unarmed strikes to 2D6. If I cannot, I may be tempted to go Quarter staff instead (I assume you can use one 2h?) and have Power Attack as a feat.
Feat wise I was thinking of something like:
1) Weapon Focus
1a) Stunning Fist
2a) Combat Reflexes
3) Power Attack (if 2h staff)
I don't really know monks very well so am making things up as I go really, so any guidance or advice is appreciated.
Thanks
What books can you use? Personally, I like the feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting that allows you to flurry with a longspear.
Another possibility is to focus on grappling; you can get a pretty decent grapple check going with a level 5 monk.
You can use a double-weapon, such as a quarterstaff, and use it with two-hands as a two-handed weapon. But you can't flurry with a quarterstaff in that fashion, you only get your standard strength, even if you only attack with one end.
Personally, I'd switch the Str and the Dex, and take Weapon Finesse.
I'd also play a human over an elf, but then again I hate elves.
I'd also go the Spring Attack route. You'll never really want to flurry anyway, because you'll not want to stand there.
If you really wanted to flurry, I'd suggest going with the high Str and then at 6th level take Improved Trip and your first goal should be to trip the opponent. You can even use every attack in a flurry to try and trip, only the initial touch attack decreases as you attack not the actual opposed Str check.
If your goal is to do a lot of damage, you are ultimately going to be disappointed unless you are fighting mainly low AC mooks.
My biggest suggest is this though. Just because you will ultimately be faster than everyone else, you shouldn't run into the middle of a bunch of guys and then scream, "Medic!" when you get mobbed.
And a 1st level monk doesn't qualify for weapon focus, or weapon finesse... So, I'd suggest staying human and starting off fighter 4/monk 1. You won't have as many attacks, but pres man is right, go Spring Attack; standing still will get you killed. Stick with the high strength, go weapon focus, and specialize in a big ass weapon (again no flurry, but you should always be moving!). Off the top of my head I can't remember which splat book has the optional monk weapon feats for swords and whatnot (it's been a while), but check your resources.
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Damn, did not know that about the staff.
The game is fairly low powered so actually in most situations I will be able to stand and flurry, in fact frankly I think even the monk will shine compared to most of the group as their chars are questionable at best - its wh I have gone with monk as this sort of game is the only one I see it actually being a good class. I could go Fighter but to be honest it would probably not make people feel comfortable as he would be so much stronger than everyone else
Hmm, I forgot that I cannot take Weapon Focus at 1, damn these non full BAB chars!
I will likely take Improved Trip as the monk feat at 6 as combat manoveours seems to be the way to go with a monk.
The only book being used is the PHB, no extras, it's a fairly simple game.
My biggest coice at the moment I think is deciding whether it is worth getting the extra AC through Dex and losing the hp from Con by going Elf. I don't care much about losing the bonus Human Feat and do like getting low light vision, so it is just an AC vs Dex. If most mobs continue to be of the current standard, then the 1 extra AC may well be worth it (at the moment even the best armoured have AC only of 21, so Ac of 18 + whatever bracer I am allowed actually puts me high up there)
Hi all, I am playing a 3.5 DnD game and I will be rolling a monk. I know, first thing most are thinking is'don't do it!' It's a crazy idea, as they are an unloved child of the game, but to be honest, in 3.5 core most the classes are depressing, so I thought I could have some fun playing the underdog.
So, I was hoping some people could give me some help with the char to make him as good as he can be.
He will be lvl 5, if lucky he may have Bracers of Armour +1, and the party does have an Amulet of the Mighty Fist he could use (thanks to random loot done at the beginning).
Stat wise we rolled and so including the lvl 4 stat increase the numbers are in the monks favour.
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 11I can move those numbers around though I am in favour of high Str for some damage. Race choices are limited (sadly no Half-Orc) but I could go Elf to get 18 Dex, though obviously would lose some Con.
If I am allowed, at 6 I will try and get Improved Natural Weapon Feat from the Monster Manual to get my unarmed strikes to 2D6. If I cannot, I may be tempted to go Quarter staff instead (I assume you can use one 2h?) and have Power Attack as a feat.
Feat wise I was thinking of something like:
1) Weapon Focus
1a) Stunning Fist
2a) Combat Reflexes
3) Power Attack (if 2h staff)I don't really know monks very well so am making things up as I go really, so any guidance or advice is appreciated.
Thanks
I'd suggest a dwarven monk and forget about using the quarterstaff, your natural weapons will outpace the damage it can do relatively quickly.
As for feats I'd go for:
1st level - Weapon focus (Unarmed Strike)
1st bonus - Stunning fist
2nd bonus - either
3rd level - Dodge/Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)
6th level - Mobility/Toughness/any of the skill feats
6th bonus - Improved Trip
Other MM feats that are worth having for a monk are Improved Natural Armour & Ability Focus (stunning Fist)
Your 4th level stat point should either go to Strength (eventually improving attacks & tripping) or Wisdom (eventually improving AC and stunning fist DC)
Get yourself a Kama to avoid being tripped if you fail your check. If its silvered, then you will also have a few more options to overcome DR.
Once you can afford it you should also get a Monk's Belt (13,000gp).
Good luck & enjoy!
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I'd suggest a dwarven monk and forget about using the quarterstaff, your natural weapons will outpace the damage it can do relatively quickly.As for feats I'd go for:
1st level - Weapon focus (Unarmed Strike)
1st bonus - Stunning fist
2nd bonus - either
3rd level - Dodge/Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)
6th level - Mobility/Toughness/any of the skill feats
6th bonus - Improved TripOther MM feats that are worth having for a monk are Improved Natural Armour & Ability Focus (stunning Fist)
Your 4th level stat...
Thanks, unfortunately due to the setting my race choices ar only Human, Half Elf and Elf.
Is Improved Natural Armour in the MM?
I could go dodge, though being a Pathfinder player usually, the Dodge requirement of 'choosing' a target annoys me.
I think Weapon Focus cannot be got at 1 due to a BAB requirement? Also, I think the Improved natral attack needs a BAB of 4?
Due to the odd style of game I am not sure how useful mobility would be. We don't actually use a battle map or anything so fighting is a bit more free form so mobility feats may be a bit redundant.
Quarter Staff is out the question, I only was thinking it for the 2h Str bonus but it seems that Flurry negates that.
Keep the advise coming, I am a big time Monk newbie
I do not play monks at all but I hope to try and help. If you have the option then I would suggest losing the bracers of armor and go for a monks belt instead.
I am not sure but I do not think monks are allowed any type of protective devices except rings or other stuff that doesn't grant an actual AC bonus. deflection bonuses or sacred or whatever but stuff that grants an AC might be out, again not sure on that one.
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 11Feat wise I was thinking of something like:
1) Weapon Focus
1a) Stunning Fist
2a) Combat Reflexes
3) Power Attack (if 2h staff)I don't really know monks very well so am making things up as I go really, so any guidance or advice is appreciated.
Thanks
Monks are awesome. Even though they do not hit as often as a barbarian or a fighter, they do hit more often than rogues, clerics, wizards etc.
Flurry at low level is hard, but by level 5 you are into bonus territory so you should be fine.
I would switch strength and wisdom. That increases your AC, so you can stay in combat longer. Toughness is good for that too. Weapon finesse will give you +3 to hit (+4 if you go elf). You mentioned damage, but I think hitting twice, will compensate somewhat (especially since you are now talking 1d8 vs the staff's 1d6). Strength x 1.5 is +6 (with an 18), but flurry is +3, +3 (with a 16 Str). You can even switch Dex and Str, to get a +5 to attack from an elf, to maximize that +3 damage by hitting more often.
I like the feat combo: improved initiative, stunning blow. You are hitting their ff AC and setting up a good round 2 flurry of blows. The save is based on your Wis, so it works better if you go for the 18 wis. At second level combat reflexes works on your higher dex, but you will hopefully not be surrounded by too many attackers (unless they have dropped their weapon from being stunned :) (and picking up a weapon provokes AoO )so for feats I like
1 improved initiative, 1b stunning blow, 2b combat reflexes, 3 weapon finesse. Again, I am looking at hitting in order to increase damage. I hope that helps.
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Interesting stuff. I admit I am tempted by the extra AC with Dex or Wis and lowering Str, but I do like high Str, Finesse builds always bug me due to the lower damage output - the 3.5 monk is already handicapped by not getting a 3rd attack with flurry at lvl 6.
As well as losing out on damage I have to get Weapon Finesse, at that point, I could just keep high Str and replace Finesse with an AC Feat like Dodge or better yet Improved Natural Armour.
Although, having said all that, now that I am not going 2h, 18 Str is a bit less important so I guess it will need to be food for thought. 20 Dex could be tempting for extra initiative as well as the AC and To Hit. The Wis would only give 1 AC and 1 sv, so Dex definitely is more appealing.
Also, unless I am wrong, in 3.5 FLurry actually stacks with TWF? So I could actually flurry my two atks and make a third (all be it for a total of -3 on each attack) if I were to take TWF feat? The extra Dex could help offset that due to the higher Hit
Interesting stuff. I admit I am tempted by the extra AC with Dex or Wis and lowering Str, but I do like high Str, Finesse builds always bug me due to the lower damage output - the 3.5 monk is already handicapped by not getting a 3rd attack with flurry at lvl 6.
As well as losing out on damage I have to get Weapon Finesse, at that point, I could just keep high Str and replace Finesse with an AC Feat like Dodge or better yet Improved Natural Armour.
Although, having said all that, now that I am not going 2h, 18 Str is a bit less important so I guess it will need to be food for thought. 20 Dex could be tempting for extra initiative as well as the AC and To Hit. The Wis would only give 1 AC and 1 sv, so Dex definitely is more appealing.
Also, unless I am wrong, in 3.5 FLurry actually stacks with TWF? So I could actually flurry my two atks and make a third (all be it for a total of -3 on each attack) if I were to take TWF feat? The extra Dex could help offset that due to the higher Hit
One thing to think about with Wis is it increases the DC for your stunning blow ability (assuming you take that feat).
As for the TWF and Flurry, you'd have to talk to your GM about that. Technically I believe it does and I believe the FAQ said it did, but there may be some room for disagreement by your GM.
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Yeah I need to check with GM for TWF and Improved Natural Weapon. I believe TWF is legit (as opposed to Pathfinder where it is not)and I know INW is, but that does not mean the GM will allow them.
Wis for extra stunning fist DC is tempting as is the will save. But the extra To Hit and AC and Reflex I think is swaying me, afterall, if I lose damage from Str, it is a decent trade for extra To Hit as less damage but more chance of hitting is good. Going wisdom means losing damage and To Hit
If I am able to go TWF then Dex is definitely the winner as it would be -3 to attacks with Flurry plus TWF.
As for the TWF and Flurry, you'd have to talk to your GM about that. Technically I believe it does and I believe the FAQ said it did, but there may be some room for disagreement by your GM.
That would surprise me, but you are probably right about the technicality. Flurry is a full attack action, so that would rule out any other forms of attack imho. Personally since flurry says you are using both hands, knees, head, staff etc. interchangeably, I would disallow it as well. :)
Also it says that you add your strength when you flurry (not str.5) with weapons. This is new to me :)
Going wisdom means losing damage and To Hit
Fair enough, but keep it high in the list. Normally I say consider wis as the primary stat, but do not drop it to third. :) Monks, like paladins have lots of primary stats. Generally my home group only considers either class if we roll three 16s (which you have :). The next step is to decide if you want damage (str) AC (dex) hp (con), to hit and saves can go different ways as above. It sounds like you already decided on this part though.
Have fun and let us know what you finally decide.
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As far as I am aware, Flurry being a Full round action is just making it clear you cannot do it when also doing a standard action such as moving and would not actually exclude the use of TWF.
Just like at lvl 6, a Fighter gets 2 attacks in a round but this is a full round action, however he can still TWF in addtion to those two attacks (giving him 3 attacks)
I know Pathfinder removed the ability to TWF with Flurry by actually stating in the Flurry description that it was 'as if TWF' but without the feat requirement. But Pathfinder also made up for this by giving the Monk 3 attacks at lvl 6 with Flurry (Flurry gives full BAB progression)
In 3.5, most of the monks flurry bonus is gone by lvl 6 because real fighter types have 2 attacks now, while the monk had the advantage of 2 attacks for longer, it is lost at this point. So, TWF helps keep them not so much 'compete' but at least playing the same game..
Anyway, this is all finer details I ned to check with the GM along with Improved Natural Weapon to see what I can and cannot do.
I've gone with the 20 Dex and Weapon Finesse. Not sure what my lvl 3 Feat will be. Tempted by Weapon Focus for extra To Hit, or Dodge for AC, or even TWF if possible
I've gone with the 20 Dex and Weapon Finesse. Not sure what my lvl 3 Feat will be. Tempted by Weapon Focus for extra To Hit, or Dodge for AC, or even TWF if possible
Weapon focus +1, weapon finesse +5 (or +2 over a all dex :) ymmv
Can a TWF fighter move and take two attacks? If so then I have been doing it wrong for over 10 years :)Have a good game!
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I've gone with the 20 Dex and Weapon Finesse. Not sure what my lvl 3 Feat will be. Tempted by Weapon Focus for extra To Hit, or Dodge for AC, or even TWF if possibleWeapon focus +1, weapon finesse +5 (or +2 over a all dex :) ymmv
Can a TWF fighter move and take two attacks? If so then I have been doing it wrong for over 10 years :)
Have a good game!
Sadly only in one of the houseruled games I play in (Not this one)
You can't move and use Flurry and you cannot move and use both your attacks (if Fighter lvl 6) and you can't move and use TWF, but that fact does not exclude them from being used together, so by the rules there is no reason a lvl 8 monk as a full round action can attack twice due to BAB, a third time due to Flurry and a 4th time due to TWF
What about a few level dips (1-3) in Rogue for the extra +1d6 sneak attack damage. If you've a few more melee-based character in the party flanking shouldn't be hard to come by at all and the +2 will help with your lowered BAB. And think of doing 3 or 4 Flurry of Blows with an additional +2d6 per attack. A Monk 17/Rogue 3 could dish out 10d8 + Str x 5 plus 5d6 on a full-attack action. Not including additional damage from other sources.
What Prestige Classes are you allowed access to?
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Alright, i will offer my two cents. I currently play a Monk5/Pally2 in an active 3.5 game. You want your highest stat to be wisdom. You will need the AC and stunning fist, which is a very very good friend of yours. The AC bonus derived from Wisdom is retained for touch attacks and even when flat-footed. Your other high stat should be strength. You will ALWAYS flurry. You will ALWAYS try to get flanking. Str and Amulet should make up for the minuses to hit and also augment your damage. Faster movement will enable you to flank easier and more often. I am assuming there are other melee classes in the party. At low levels your flurry will give you multiple attacks. So even though your att is lowered, your chances are greatly improved because of multiple attacks. In my campaign there is a knight and a barbarian. So often they are the target of the enemies wrath, so my con and dex can afford to be lower than i would normally like. I have a 14 dex and a 12 con. I would recommend Human. This gives you an additional feat at first level. I would take Dodge, Stunning Fist and mobility. You can take toughness instead of mobility if you feel uncomfortable with your hit points total. As far as weapon finesse, you have to have a +1 for that also. Stick to weapon focus and spring attack when they becomes available. At 2nd level take combat reflexes unless you dont have a dex bonus.
These suggestions are assuming the only book you have access to is the PHB. If you have access to other books please respond to my post and I can give you additional guidance if you want it. My monk has some feats from other books that have really helped him (in particular extra stunning fist attacks). Remember your fists count as manufactured and natural weapons for the purposes of buffing. As you get higher in level you will need some magic items to keep pace with the other melee types but at low levels you should be their equal and if you roll really well you can possibly outshine them.
Oh I almost forgot. Be sure to have maximum ranks in Tumble and use it to move in and out of combat. A successful tumble allows you to move past an opponent w/o provoking an AoO. Depending on how high your skill is you can actually move through an enemy occupied space w/o provoking. Add mobility and AoOs become little to no problem. Be sure to get to 5 ranks in jump also, this gives you a +2 synergy bonus on tumble. Remember tumbling is a move action so it still allows you to attack after you have used it. As far as magic items, the number one item you want is Rings of Force. After that, a Monk's belt and after that higher Amulets of mighty fists.