Torbyne |
How do you get dex to damage now?
We dont know the exact details but in the playtest thread for the swashbuckler it was confirmed that there will be a feat to allow this. I would assume it has some restrictions that make it more appealing to a character with levels of swashbuckler.
Arachnofiend |
Rightbackatya wrote:How do you get dex to damage now?We dont know the exact details but in the playtest thread for the swashbuckler it was confirmed that there will be a feat to allow this. I would assume it has some restrictions that make it more appealing to a character with levels of swashbuckler.
Weapon Finesse as a prereq would be all that would be needed to encourage it to be used with Swashes. Anything more than Finesse and Focus as prereqs would be overdoing it with the taxes.
Torbyne |
Torbyne wrote:Weapon Finesse as a prereq would be all that would be needed to encourage it to be used with Swashes. Anything more than Finesse and Focus as prereqs would be overdoing it with the taxes.Rightbackatya wrote:How do you get dex to damage now?We dont know the exact details but in the playtest thread for the swashbuckler it was confirmed that there will be a feat to allow this. I would assume it has some restrictions that make it more appealing to a character with levels of swashbuckler.
I agree but somehow feel the requirements will be at least a little more than what they are for Dervish Dance so that feat is not invalidated by the new one. Maybe it will require slashing grace first?
Athaleon |
Arachnofiend wrote:I agree but somehow feel the requirements will be at least a little more than what they are for Dervish Dance so that feat is not invalidated by the new one. Maybe it will require slashing grace first?Torbyne wrote:Weapon Finesse as a prereq would be all that would be needed to encourage it to be used with Swashes. Anything more than Finesse and Focus as prereqs would be overdoing it with the taxes.Rightbackatya wrote:How do you get dex to damage now?We dont know the exact details but in the playtest thread for the swashbuckler it was confirmed that there will be a feat to allow this. I would assume it has some restrictions that make it more appealing to a character with levels of swashbuckler.
Hopefully not, it would be as Arachnofiend says, too many feat requirements.
Honestly, I hope Slashing Grace is gone too. It struck me as a feat cost for a Swashbuckler to not feel useless in undead-heavy campaigns. The Swashbuckler Weapon Group should simply be a list of weapons, like the Fighter's various weapon groups are, to replace the "light or one-handed piercing weapon" line.
I'm fine with Dervish Dance being "invalidated" by a feat in the core line. It doesn't make any sense for the feat to work with scimitars and not with rapiers, for example. And I wouldn't miss the requirement for two ranks in Perform: Dance either.
Atarlost |
Dex to AC is a lie. Dex only really adds to touch AC except for classes limited to light or no armor.
Let's take a look at a few ability sets. 15 point buy.
Str 14 (5)
Dex 18 (10 with +2 racial)
Con 13 (3)
Int 7 (-4)
Wis 14 (5)
Cha 7 (-4)
This is a reasonable composite bow archer set. Switch wis and cha for a paladin. Relax the int dump at higher point buys. Forget about martials and play a single stat caster at lower point buys. This array is also suitable for finesse without dex to damage.
Str 8 (-2)
Dex 20 (17 with racial)
Con 13 (3)
Int 7 (-4)
Wis 14 (5)
Cha 7 (-4)
This is a dex array with dex to damage. The max dex of the best cheap (ie non-mithril) light armor is +4 so there is no AC advantage over the more balanced archer array. You also do not have dervish dance until level 2 or 3 or the agile enchantment until much later. The AC advantage of the extra dex only exists in between buying a mithril chain shirt and the first array reaching 22 dex, which should occur no later than level 8.
Str 18 (10 with racial)
Dex 14 (5)
Con 13 (3)
Int 7 (-4)
Wis 14 (5)
Cha 7 (-4)
This is a strength based melee array. It is as accurate as the dex array once that player spends +1 weapon enhancement on the agile enchantment. The AC maxes out with a +2 ioun stone or belt with mithril full plate. A dex build needs 36 dex to exceed this AC because of max dex limits unless you cheat by using celestial chain armor not made of silver and gold as described in the item entry. 36 dex is not possible on a non-goblin until level 20 (20 racial + 5 level + 5 inherent + 6 enhancement). Just 14 dex and a small enhancement bonus make 14 dex as good for non-touch AC as the highest dex a non-goblin can achieve.
The 20 starting dex array winds up breaking even on attack, and one handed damage but is actually behind on AC until he gets a +4 inherent bonus. In the long run the initiative is worth a feat or two, but only if the strength build is not using a two handed weapon and carrying capacity is handwaved. The dex build has lower CMD, needs to reach a higher level to achieve DR penetration because of the agile enhancement tax and is almost completely nonfunctional at low levels. Oh, and he must use both a light weapon (putting him behind on damage die) and a feat from the much maligned Sargava splatbook. With a two handed weapon the strength build can get 3:1 power attack and 1.5x strength and blow the dex build away on damage without actually giving up the option to carry a shield if he uses a scimitar or longsword. Before Agile this array gets +1 to attack rolls for -3 to damage, which isn't exactly a good trade.
Armor Training can shift the balance, but all the good fighter archetypes trade it away and other classes never had it.
Umbranus |
Dex to AC is a lie. Dex only really adds to touch AC except for classes limited to light or no armor.
And yet my previously mentioned natural weapon kobild slayer gets +7 to AC from dex while being proficient with light AND medium armors.
Sure, it took darkleaf cloth armor to get the +8 max dex bonus but now I have protection between half- and full-plate.