Throw Anything


Rules Questions


The throw anything feat talks about an "improvised ranged weapon". Does that include non-simple thrown weapons? What about chakrams, boomerangs, shurikens, bolas? Does the feat include them, since they actually are designed to be thrown, and should therefore be easier to throw than a brick or a bottle of whiskey?

Grand Lodge

Those are actual weapons - you just don't know how to use them correctly. Throw Anything doesn't give or simulate the specific proficiency for such a weapon. You might be able to count one as an improvised ranged weapon, if you used the statistics for an improvised ranged weapon for it.


Starglim wrote:
Those are actual weapons - you just don't know how to use them correctly. Throw Anything doesn't give or simulate the specific proficiency for such a weapon. You might be able to count one as an improvised ranged weapon, if you used the statistics for an improvised ranged weapon for it.

^this

throw anything and catch off guard were never meant to be weapon proficiency(everything) and should not be tried to use as such.


First, if anyone could point me towards articles where I can read about the 'intent' behind certain feats vs the 'implementation,' I think that'd be an awesome behind-the-scenes look, and I'd really appreciate it.

Second, I have questions about 'improvised range weapons.' A bow is a ranged weapon. Could I use a hammock, tied between two palms, to launch coconuts at a hobgoblin, and NOT take a -4 to the attack if I had the feat under discussion?

I'm concerned as to why they said 'improvised ranged weapon,' rather than 'improvised thrown weapon.' Is the title of the feat the giveaway? But I was under the impression that a lot of feats have names that convey the spirit of the feat, but not the totality of the content?

Sczarni

I made this exact same mistake when I read the Throw Anything/Catch Off-Guard feats. I think the problem is that the rules for improvised weapons say that you take a -4 penalty because you're not proficient. This makes is sound like the nonproficiency penalty and the improvised penalty are one and the same. I'm still not exactly convinced that they're not, but I've accepted that you can't use these feats as weapon proficiency feats out of respect for RAI.


Real quick: What's RAI?

Alright, this is a bit off topic, but I feel this is the best place to discuss this.

Improvised Weapons: ... Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object....

Based on that wording, doesn't it seem like the -4 penalty is applied exclusively because of nonproficiency? So removing that penalty would mean that proficiency has been granted. Realize, though, that granting proficiency in this way would not let PCs follow the feat chain to specialize in a weapon. Because of this trade off, I'm not immediately crying foul at the feat. It does not, indeed, render other weapon proficiency feats useless.

But then there's this idea that a medium character using a small light dagger he's not proficient in will do so at a -6 penalty...Say what? -4 from the non proficiency, and -2 from the size difference? Ok, I'll accept that the -2 is from discomfort, but then why would improvised weapons not suffer this? Is it because one doesn't have to unlearn trained habits? Ok, but now I'm thinking about arrows, and how they can function as improvised light daggers--Do they function as small size, medium size, or large size? I don't know what the original thinking was behind this stuff.


Rules As Intended (as opposed to RAW: Rules As Written).


Sanjiv Jagtap wrote:


But then there's this idea that a medium character using a small light dagger he's not proficient in will do so at a -6 penalty...Say what? -4 from the non proficiency, and -2 from the size difference? Ok, I'll accept that the -2 is from discomfort, but then why would improvised weapons not suffer this? Is it because one doesn't have to unlearn trained habits? Ok, but now I'm thinking about arrows, and how they can function as improvised light daggers--Do they function as small size, medium size, or large size? I don't know what the original thinking was behind this stuff.

I think the main point is that you improvise.

Using a dagger is not that, that's self defence.

The feats are meant towards non-weapon items, such as a chair leg, a keg, a candle even. A butterknife, however dull is still a knife, therefore not an imp weapon, a spoon on the other hand could be.

I consider it more of a priority system, take your dagger example.
I pluck up a dagger, am I proficient in it?
Yes: No penalty, use as it's intended to, maybe know a few nice tricks.
No: Non-proficiency penalty, can't be improvised because it already is a weapon and non-dagger-proficiency takes lead.

I pluck up a beer mug, am I proficient in it?
Yes: No you're not, there's no such proficiency, you improvise and use a non-lethal-intended item as a weapon.

No: You can chuck it, much like a rock, take a -4 penalty because it's clunky, and you don't know how to best use it.
Kinda like flinging a wheel of cheese at someone.

Hope this helps.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

How about using a melee weapon?

I had a concept of taking the Throw Anything feat to lob my greatsword at the baddies.

Would I get Greatsword damage? can i even throw it?


I'd say no. I cannot find anything that directly shoots the theory down, and I considered it myself before, but what I found is this:

The improvised weapon rule mentions only "Objects not crafted to be a weapon..." so that kind of says just plain no to greatsword.

What, for me anyhow, make that sounds even more so is the monk archetype, Empty Hand. The first class feature given is:

"A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies:.."

This sounds as an exception to the rule that weapons cannot be used as improvised weapons unless, you're a monk of empty hand or gain such an ability from another source.


Veldan Rath wrote:

How about using a melee weapon?

I had a concept of taking the Throw Anything feat to lob my greatsword at the baddies.

Would I get Greatsword damage? can i even throw it?

Thrown Weapons: "It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn't have a numeric entry in the Range column on Table: Weapons), and a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet."


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Bummer. I hate and agree with your logic.


Grick wrote:
Veldan Rath wrote:

How about using a melee weapon?

I had a concept of taking the Throw Anything feat to lob my greatsword at the baddies.

Would I get Greatsword damage? can i even throw it?

Thrown Weapons: "It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn't have a numeric entry in the Range column on Table: Weapons), and a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet."

I totally forgot that one, my bad. Rulewise, you can throw a longsword or a great sword, but it wouldn't count or work as an improvised weapon I'd say.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Tyki11 wrote:

(...)

I totally forgot that one, my bad. Rulewise, you can throw a longsword or a great sword, but it wouldn't count or work as an improvised weapon I'd say.

Personaly I would allow a weapon to be used as a "improvised weapon" by a "non-proficient" but still with only the stats. of a club (one scale lighter than the original weapon) and I would have a radom roll the type of damage depending on the "item" used.

Ex.: A sword could be used with club stats (dam d6, std crit) and might cause (roll a d3) Blunt, Slashing or Piercing damage. A BBQ spike, lighter than a sword, d4 dam and might case Blunt or Piercing.

I wouldn't allow the use of the enhancement bonuses of a magic wepon on attack but I would allow damage bonuses if the random damage type would fit the weapon. Althought, activated energy weapons might not be so easily improvised used (ouch)!


speaking of 'improvised ranged weapons,' can I make and use improvised arrows? Ie. stick a lump of tar onto a straight stick, maybe fashion a leaf or flower onto its tail end to give it guidance, and then shoot the thing through a fire and into an orc?

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