Kirthfinder - World of Warriorcraft Houserules


Homebrew and House Rules

1,501 to 1,550 of 3,973 << first < prev | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | next > last >>

The Prerequisites for Prestige Specialist are a little off. I see what I think was the intent, and that's what I'm working with for my group. But as written, it looks like you can't pick up a 5th level in it before hitting character level 21. Are they expected to have Skill Focus (Concentration)?

The Sorcerer bloodlines/wudans Arcane, Chaos, and Magus pick up Prepare Spells, but it looks like only Arcane and Magus can use the Theurgy option. Is this intentional?

I remember somewhere in here you could select weapon-like spells/SLAs for weapon-specific feats. For a Sorcerer/Monk, what's their effective proficiency level with their Eldritch Blast?

Exotic proficiency with Gauntlets refers to nonexistent damage scaling under Unarmed Attacks.

It makes me sad giving up Rogue Skill Tricks to add theurgy to Monk Ki Powers would have to be Weak Theurgy. Unless we're given something for 6th and 7th level Ki Powers.


Tahlreth -- thanks for your comments!

Tahlreth wrote:
The Prerequisites for Prestige Specialist are a little off. I see what I think was the intent, and that's what I'm working with for my group. But as written, it looks like you can't pick up a 5th level in it before hitting character level 21. Are they expected to have Skill Focus (Concentration)?

I'll check the text when I get home. The idea is you'd have 3 levels of a base class, then 1 level of PrSpc, and so on. At 20th, you'd have 15 levels of other stuff and 5 levels of PrSpc.

Tahlreth wrote:
The Sorcerer bloodlines/wudans Arcane, Chaos, and Magus pick up Prepare Spells, but it looks like only Arcane and Magus can use the Theurgy option. Is this intentional?

Yes. Chaos bloodline gets a bunch of other cool stuff, and isn't thematically intended as a sorcerer-wizard multiclassing tool. They get prepare spells because that's what Logrus initiates in Zelazny's 2nd "Amber" series do.

Tahlreth wrote:
I remember somewhere in here you could select weapon-like spells/SLAs for weapon-specific feats. For a Sorcerer/Monk, what's their effective proficiency level with their Eldritch Blast?

I'd have no problem with a sorcerer/monk choosing eldritch blast as their Temple Weapon.

Tahlreth wrote:
Exotic proficiency with Gauntlets refers to nonexistent damage scaling under Unarmed Attacks.

Good catch -- I'll fix that. Thanks!

Tahlreth wrote:
It makes me sad giving up Rogue Skill Tricks to add theurgy to Monk Ki Powers would have to be Weak Theurgy. Unless we're given something for 6th and 7th level Ki Powers.

I agree, it's tricky, which is why I hadn't included it last iteration. If we make it Weak theurgy, you're sort of giving up more than you're getting. If Strong, you could keep 6th and 7th levels as skill tricks, but then you still potentially end up with very level-inappropriate powers by taking 1 level of monk and a whole bunch of rogue levels. I'll look at the exact combinations/level breaks before adding it back in, one way or the other.


Also considering restarting the PBP.

Liberty's Edge

Aw man. I'd love a chance to play with the Kirthfinder rules as you imagine them, but I'm already bursting at the seams with PBPs as it is! Maybe, maybe... :)


I would love to be considered, should I post in the campaign section?


Trogdar wrote:
I would love to be considered, should I post in the campaign section?

Follow the link and reply in the "recruitment" thread, please!


Alice Margatroid wrote:
Aw man. I'd love a chance to play with the Kirthfinder rules as you imagine them, but I'm already bursting at the seams with PBPs as it is! Maybe, maybe... :)

If you change your mind/situation, I'll MAKE a spot for you.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I got bored with all the multiclassing options available, so I tried to figure out how to make sense of a Sorcerer with the Arcane bloodline multiclassed with an Arcane Disciple Specialist Wizard who chose the Arcanist Domain.

Then I noticed the High Sorcery Specialist Wizard. Well played.

(Edit to avoid a double-post:) Woot! New email from Kirth! Christmas came early! ^_^


Oh, neat-o. Going through it a little, though, I noticed that you have Weapon Aptitude as a Fighter Talent, but all of its effects are already base for the class (though the levels are switched around a bit).

Looking good, though. I like the changes to the fighter overall. Still need to go through the bard; I'm feeling like it's time to make a bardbarian.


Thanks, Vulture -- I'll look through the Fighter doc tonight and make corrections. Off-topic:

Spoiler:
Have I asked you yet whether your avatar is named after the character in Jack Chalker's "Five Rings of the Master" series? If so, cool!

To all: The druid's "Mark of the Wild" ability (now a multiple-use class feature rather than a feat) is missing some text. It should read, "If you have fewer than 5 ranks in Handle Animal, the maximum CR of your animal cohort is as follows:

Ranks ... Max CR
1 ... 1/2
2 ... 1
3 ... 1
4 ... 2
5+ ... No. Ranks -3


Curse you, Word 2003, that you can't open the kirthy-goodness!!


Ugh. Sorry about that. Blame Bill Gates.


no problem, friend has it. just have to wait till sunday...

EDIT: thanks for the Fire Angel pic.


necromental wrote:

EDIT: thanks for the Fire Angel pic.

Apologies: the original looks a lot better than the scan, and it's still not exactly fine art. I'd been something like 10 or 15 years out of practice when I did that piece.

Liberty's Edge

necromental wrote:

no problem, friend has it. just have to wait till sunday...

EDIT: thanks for the Fire Angel pic.

Making a bit of a jump, but I suggest hitting up Open Office or (better) Libre Office for your .docx needs (assuming that's the problem). Doesn't hurt that they're both very solid (and free) office suites. I use Libre Office personally and can vouch for it being a safe program to install and use. It also has some really nice .pdf extensions that can be used in lieu of Adobe software, too.

---

Been following this for a while. I like a lot of your rules as they were linked in the OP, Kirth. My players have been really enjoying the monk changes (in that monks are now actually seeing play and kicking some serious butt!).

I was wondering if I could get in on the mailing list goodness, too. My email's in the spoiler, much appreciated.

Spoiler:
witchhunter8808 at gmail dot com

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd be insterested in having a look at this work as well.

Spoiler:

lazarvisionATgmaildotcom


necromental wrote:

no problem, friend has it. just have to wait till sunday...

EDIT: thanks for the Fire Angel pic.

If you have/make a gmail account, you can send the email to yourself there and open the docs in the Google viewer in the meantime. Seems to read the docs just fine.


Kirth I was wondering after the up thread discussion. Do you guys use one of the character sheets from TOZ's Google docs page or something different?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

"When making unarmed attacks, you can also make sounds like in old Kung Fu movies, at your option."

Rolling monk immediately.


Talonhawke wrote:
Kirth I was wondering after the up thread discussion. Do you guys use one of the character sheets from TOZ's Google docs page or something different?

I've been using ones that I made, patterned after the old Victory Games sheets -- but Mrs Gersen told me to throw them away and make "prettier" ones, so I may need to do that. Jess Door made her own, based on the 3.5/PF sheets that she was more comfortable with. But, confidentially speaking, a sheet of looseleaf paper is still my favorite character sheet of all time.


Thanks for the info trying to find something that is more familiar to my players. All are 3.x generation


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I still have my Basic and 1st edition character almost all on loose leaf (I have a few I did on the computer which was very fancy back then).

I did a basic D&D game almost 2 years ago for my 40th and a follow up game earlier this year for my friend's 40th and everyone got loose leaf to do their character.


Talonhawke wrote:
Thanks for the info trying to find something that is more familiar to my players. All are 3.x generation

I emailed some samples -- feel free to modify as needed.


Thank you very much. Kirthfinder customer service faster than a tweaked out barbarian with haste.


May not last long -- my new interwebz are slow and spotty.


Ouch I know the feeling.


Hey Kirth, I was making my dude just in case a position opened up in your PbP and I was wondering, is there any way to use buffs while fighting in the kirthfinder system? I noticed you have spell strike in the strike feats, but I haven't really spotted anything similar to spell combat, which would allow my skald to use magic to buff while fighting instead of just using attack magic.

Also, Is there any way to expand upon spell lists in kirthfinder? I was thinking about a story hook that involved being sent to a bardic college by a sort of hateful matriarch due to being a bastard. It would be similar to Heracles myth or John Snow in the game of thrones. Regardless, the characters father would be killed after he was sent to college, thus the character swore to avenge him. To that end, I was looking to add some curses to my characters spell list. A character who dabbles in dark arts whilst being essentially stuck in a position due to his ill favour within the family.

It all makes sense in my head anyway. :P


Hmm, alternatively, I could come at this from the Ek direction and then pick up a bit of performance stuff through the herald talent... maybe I'll head back to the drawing board.


The Barbarian's Brawler option gave me an idea: What's the difference between Iterative Blast and Battle Touch (Eldritch Blast only)?

After skimming through the docx files, I have to point out a few anomalies:

  • Races pages 19 and 23, Ranger page 7, Sorcerer page 42, and Spells page 11 are completely blank.
  • There are Word 2007 equations in Feats that are causing hiccups for my copy of Word 2008.
  • The Spellthief's bonus feats are yellow.

Trogdar wrote:
Hey Kirth, I was making my dude just in case a position opened up in your PbP and I was wondering, is there any way to use buffs while fighting in the kirthfinder system? I noticed you have spell strike in the strike feats, but I haven't really spotted anything similar to spell combat, which would allow my skald to use magic to buff while fighting instead of just using attack magic.

Spell Combat was a Pathfinder Magus ability, and Magus is a Battle Sorcerer-only Bloodline/Martial Path/Wudan in Kirthfinder. As far as buffs that'll last longer than one round, a dip in that sounds like what you're looking for, but it requires you to pick up Two-Weapon Fighting, and you'd only be able to use it while wielding a Bonded Weapon.


Tahlreth wrote:

The Barbarian's Brawler option gave me an idea: What's the difference between Iterative Blast and Battle Touch (Eldritch Blast only)?

After skimming through the docx files, I have to point out a few anomalies:

  • Races pages 19 and 23, Ranger page 7, Sorcerer page 42, and Spells page 11 are completely blank.
  • There are Word 2007 equations in Feats that are causing hiccups for my copy of Word 2008.
  • The Spellthief's bonus feats are yellow.

Trogdar wrote:
Hey Kirth, I was making my dude just in case a position opened up in your PbP and I was wondering, is there any way to use buffs while fighting in the kirthfinder system? I noticed you have spell strike in the strike feats, but I haven't really spotted anything similar to spell combat, which would allow my skald to use magic to buff while fighting instead of just using attack magic.
Spell Combat was a Pathfinder Magus ability, and Magus is a Battle Sorcerer-only Bloodline/Martial Path/Wudan in Kirthfinder. As far as buffs that'll last longer than one round, a dip in that sounds like what you're looking for, but it requires you to pick up Two-Weapon Fighting, and you'd only be able to use it while wielding a Bonded Weapon.

Derp! I totally forgot about that class! I should go check it out!!


Trogdar wrote:
is there any way to use buffs while fighting in the kirthfinder system? I noticed you have spell strike in the strike feats, but I haven't really spotted anything similar to spell combat, which would allow my skald to use magic to buff while fighting instead of just using attack magic.

A skald can fight and maintain an inspiration simultaneously. In the latest bard revision, inspirations now duplicate spells -- whether buffing, debuffing, or whatever. So you've sort of got what you want already built into the class! You can also get some self-buffs through the Arcane Boost feat.

Trogdar wrote:
Is there any way to expand upon spell lists in kirthfinder?

Pretty much all curses should be on the bard list; it they're not, I'd add them. For other spells, the Expanded Arcana feat might be exactly what you're looking for.


Tahlreth wrote:
What's the difference between Iterative Blast and Battle Touch (Eldritch Blast only)?

Battle Touch, IIRC, imposes a -5 penalty on all attacks. Granted, that may not be a big deal when you're looking at touch attacks, but with Dodge improved and Canny Defense widely available, it might be.

Tahlreth wrote:
Races pages 19 and 23, Ranger page 7, Sorcerer page 42, and Spells page 11 are completely blank.

I'll check on that -- might be a page cutoff thing.

Tahlreth wrote:
There are Word 2007 equations in Feats that are causing hiccups for my copy of Word 2008.

Sorry, you lost me there. Equations?

Tahlreth wrote:
The Spellthief's bonus feats are yellow.

Anything partially complete, I highlight yellow to remind myself to finish it; it might be that the Spellthief needs another feat to complete the list (if <8 present).


BTW, People might have noticed the quotes at the start of the Fighter, Incarnate, and Sorcerer documents -- it's my goal to have something similar for every class. Suggestions and recommendations are welcome -- I've pulled in a Tennyson quote from "Galahad" for the Prestige Paladin, for example. Robert E. Howard might be a good place to look for a Barbarian quote! I may also include quotes for some of the races -- Poul Anderson for High Elves (Three Hearts and Three Lions or The Broken Sword, but probably the former), maybe The Hobbit for halflings and/or wood elves, the Prose Edda for mountain dwarves, etc.

On the flip side, if people find quotes to be simply an annoying waste of page space, they can be deleted from the Word documents without hurting my feelings! If people like that kind of thing, though, I may also, in the unforseeable future, start pulling in open-source woodcuts/illustrations as well -- maybe a Waterhouse painting or something like this for Water Fey, for example. (Yeah, I started to do that with the Erol Otus illustration for the Farspawn, but then got pulled in other directions.) Haven't decided to go forward with that yet, because people's taste in art is so varied -- I can't stand WAR, for example.

Also, I'm always on the lookout for more examples of classes from literature/mythology/fiction. For example:

  • Gérard de l'Automne, from Clark Ashton Smith's "A Rendezvous in Averoigne," is a textbook minstrel
  • Väinämöinen from The Kalavala might be a bard (minstrel)/wizard or bard/sorcerer).
  • Miyamoto Musashi exemplifies the Fighter class.
  • Kveldulf and Berdla-Kari from Egil's Saga are barbarians ("In fellowship with him was one Kari of Berdla, a man of renown for strength and daring. He was a Berserk.").
  • Of course I'll reference Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrian as a Prestige Paladin.
  • Others?


  • Kirth Gersen wrote:
    BTW, People might have noticed the quotes at the start of the Fighter, Incarnate, and Sorcerer documents -- it's my goal to have something similar for every class. Suggestions and recommendations are welcome -- I've pulled in a Tennyson quote from "Galahad" for the Prestige Paladin, for example. Robert E. Howard might be a good place to look for a Barbarian quote! I may also include quotes for some of the races -- Poul Anderson for High Elves (Three Hearts and Three Lions or The Broken Sword, but probably the former), maybe The Hobbit for halflings and/or wood elves, the Prose Edda for mountain dwarves, etc.

    I did notice them! I thought it was really neat at the beginning of the fighter page. I'll go through some of my favorite books and keep an eye out for potential quotes.

    Kirth Gersen wrote:

    Also, I'm always on the lookout for more examples of classes from literature/mythology/fiction. For example:

  • Gérard de l'Automne, from Clark Ashton Smith's "A Rendezvous in Averoigne," is a textbook minstrel
  • Väinämöinen from The Kalavala might be a bard (minstrel)/wizard or bard/sorcerer).
  • Miyamoto Musashi exemplifies the Fighter class.
  • Kveldulf and Berdla-Kari from Egil's Saga are barbarians ("In fellowship with him was one Kari of Berdla, a man of renown for strength and daring. He was a Berserk.").
  • Of course I'll reference Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrian as a Prestige Paladin.
  • Others?
  • Assuming you're looking for more than one example per class, and I don't know how familiar you are with the series, but Sanglant in the Crown of Stars is another good example of a fighter. Very talented with weaponry, and ends up leading armies. Alain could be considered a ranger depending on how you look at it. Hugh is a good example of an evil cleric (religious, uses magic, very Lawful Evil).

    Some of the magic in Katherine Kerr's Deverry series is also very druidic (shapeshifting, often involving nature and life forces), which makes sense given the series is largely based on Celtic mythology.

    And Raymond E. Feist's Riftwar series has a lot of examples for wizardry, and possibly a couple examples of more sophisticated barbarians (more the super-focused fighting state than an uncontrolled rage) in the taradhel in the Demonwar saga.

    I'll look later for more specifics from the books if you're interested.

    Hm...Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn might be good for something or other, as well. I'll have to go re-read some stuff. Dune might even have something helpful.


    Kirth, how do you adjudicate the APL for Kirthfinder characters? I feel they are some deal stronger than normal PF characters.


    They are, but the NPCs should be equal, and monsters should be given kirth-feats, so it evens out.


    Scavion wrote:
    Kirth, how do you adjudicate the APL for Kirthfinder characters? I feel they are some deal stronger than normal PF characters.

    necromental's got it exactly. Also, intelligent adversaries in my games, once aware of a real threat to their plans, tend to be energetic and ruthless in their defense -- no punches pulled.

    What it comes down to, then, is that fights against groups of mooks are big slaughter-fests with the PCs on top, but most of the adventure ends up being about the PCs and the BBEGs jockeying for position, hoping to catch the other at a large enough disadvantage that the outcome of the fight is almost a given -- one way or the other. I've had TPKs and not cried about them, and I've had BBEGs go down like chumps, and everything in between.

    A lot of the rules (higher damage, wound penalties, mobile melee) are geared towards quick and brutal fights, over in a couple of rounds. Also, there are a lot of leadership-type options so that you can assign the BBEG hordes of mooks for the PCs to slaughter, but also leave them with an elite bodyguard or set of guards so that you're not staging 4-on-1 fights.


    @Vulture -- thanks for your input! I'm not familiar with all your citations, but I'll look up the ones I don't know. Keep 'em coming, please! (But for obvious reasons I'm specifically trying to avoid novels based on games -- Salvatore, etc. -- Ray Feist and Steve Brust skirt that line very closely but don't quite cross it).


    Chronicles of Amber, Corwin is a pure fighter if I ever saw one, and Merlin is Battle Sorcerer? Or would ftr/wiz be more appropriate?

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    necromental wrote:
    Chronicles of Amber, Corwin is a pure fighter if I ever saw one, and Merlin is Battle Sorcerer? Or would ftr/wiz be more appropriate?

    When was the last time you saw a pure fighter make an entire multiverse on his own.

    Standard D20 classifications really fall short of the epicness of Amber.


    Merlin's an Amberite adept 2/sorcerer (chaos bloodline) 20, with a side helping of Mary Sue.


    LazarX wrote:

    When was the last time you saw a pure fighter make an entire multiverse on his own.

    Standard D20 classifications really fall short of the epicness of Amber.

    They do indeed, but by maybe a slightly smaller margin than one might think, given that d20 wizards are making their own demi-planes long before 20th.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    The Vulture wrote:

    Oh, neat-o. Going through it a little, though, I noticed that you have Weapon Aptitude as a Fighter Talent, but all of its effects are already base for the class (though the levels are switched around a bit).

    Looking good, though. I like the changes to the fighter overall. Still need to go through the bard; I'm feeling like it's time to make a bardbarian.

    Thanks, Vulture -- I'll look through the Fighter doc tonight and make corrections.

    So weapon aptitude as a talent should be deleted? I'm curious, why did you delete attack bonus in weapon training?

    LazarX wrote:
    necromental wrote:
    Chronicles of Amber, Corwin is a pure fighter if I ever saw one, and Merlin is Battle Sorcerer? Or would ftr/wiz be more appropriate?

    When was the last time you saw a pure fighter make an entire multiverse on his own.

    Standard D20 classifications really fall short of the epicness of Amber.

    He was using his racial abilities + ultimate artifact in his series. But I tend to agree with you.


    necromental wrote:

    1. So weapon aptitude as a talent should be deleted?

    2. I'm curious, why did you delete attack bonus in weapon training?

    1. Yes. One of the big complaints about fighters was over-reliance on specific weapons, and I wanted to ameleorate that as much as possible as part of their built-in skill set.

    2. Fighters' stacking attack bonuses were starting to get out of hand. (You can still get more bang for your buck than the average person by taking Weapoin Focus, however.)


    Hey Kirth, one last question. Do reserve feats like touch of distraction or the hexblade curse work in conjunction with spellstrike?


    Well, more intended for use with Channeled Spell metamagic, via the Innate Metamagic feat, but yeah, there should be a means of getting them to add to a melee attack.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    @Vulture -- thanks for your input! I'm not familiar with all your citations, but I'll look up the ones I don't know. Keep 'em coming, please! (But for obvious reasons I'm specifically trying to avoid novels based on games -- Salvatore, etc. -- Ray Feist and Steve Brust skirt that line very closely but don't quite cross it).

    That makes perfect sense. Don't want to give self-defining examples; hard to really take anything from that.

    And I got thinking, and it hit me that Vanyel Ashkevron from the Last Herald Mage trilogy is a good example of a battle sorcerer. Also from Lackey, Alberich and Skif from her Valdemar prequels are a good fighter and thief/rogue (though Skif doesn't really have skill tricks, per se), respectively. Though these are a bit more on the young adult side of literature, not sure where exactly you want to pull from.

    Also, as a different choice for them, the Fremen from Dune could be used as an example of barbarians (again, less blind rage and more hyper-focused fighting), and the Bene Gesserit Sisters are great monks.


    And, also from Dune, Gurney Halleck is a great fighter/bard.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    And, also from Dune, Gurney Halleck is a great fighter/bard.

    Ah, Gurney. Somehow I had forgotten him. Don't know how, especially when I know Duncan admits that Gurney was the better fighter between the two of them (in Children of Dune, I believe it was). Paul could be a monk, between his prescience and Bene Gesserit/mentat training, too. And on the note of mentats, Thufir is a good intelligent, non-stealthy rogue.


    Perfect example illusionist: Uncle Coleman from Peter Straub's Shadowland.

    1,501 to 1,550 of 3,973 << first < prev | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | next > last >>
    Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Kirthfinder - World of Warriorcraft Houserules All Messageboards

    Want to post a reply? Sign in.