Why were the slow fall and high jump abilities removed? or did they move somewhere else and i just missed that?
They're optional zero-level ki powers now: feather fall and jump. That way they simply reference the spell descriptions and don't need separate entries.
Fun! I made a rock gnome paragon progression that makes you a svirfneblin at 3rd level and a pech at 6th! No one will ever use it, but it just seemed to be begging me to write it up!
oh right i searched them in 1st level ki powers but not in 0 ^^
btw, does the arcane spell failure chance reduction from a fighter's armor training stack with the feat Arcane Armor Training?
The way it is worded i can't see a reason why it shouldn't.
1. This enables a fighter 8/wizard 3 who picks both to wear heavy armor with 0% failure chance (15% reduction from fighter and 20% from the feat) - which is 2 level faster than a pathfinder magus can pull of.
2. Only picking Arcane Armor Training needs fighter 8/wizard 6 to ignore 30% - which still leave 5% with heavy armor(much worse than magus) and forces you to stick to breastplate/chainmail or mithral heavy armor.
3. Only picking the fighter talent forces you to be at least fighter 12 to wear scale armor or mithral heavy armor without failure chance
4. picking both allows a fighter 12/wizard 8 to ignore 60% failure chance (- which is enough to wear a mithral full plate and a mithral tower shield and only have a 5% failure chance remaining - since we are talking about a 20th level character: Picking celestum for the armor negates the failure chance completely - a truly badass character
Is all this intentional?
Oh and when i am at it: Armor training says wearing both an armor and using a shield makes the boni stack
5. does this really double the AC bonus and the DR from this feat? seems very powerful
6. does this mean you reduce both your armor and your shield arcane spell failure chance by the given amount?
7. Does the fortification from the fighter talent stack with fortification from armor special material or ability? (adamantine etc)
8. Does the Personal Weapon talent stack with the enhancement bonus of a wizard's bonded weapon? the way it is worded, it seems to overlap and therefore makes the choice of both a bonded weapon and a personal weapon a nonsensical choice for magus-like characters. (both abilities even determine the bonus in the same way - the highest remaining spell = bonus)
9. can a wizard with arcane bond: weapon take an enchanted weapon as a bonded object (for example a +5 vorpal handaxe) and still add +9 bonus worth of abilities on it if he has 9th level spells? (leads to a simmilar situation as in the above spoiler :o )
and a couple of inconsistencies i found
10. Personal Weapon contradicts itself - "if you chose a magical weapon you can add a magical propriety instead of a +1 bonus, once chosen the propriety cannot be changed" - later it says that the bonus and magical proprieties from the talent can be reassigned using weapon aplitude
11. The feat spell strike is still referenced instead of Arcane blade
12. the feat spell perfection makes the feat spell secret kind of obsolete (though you can't choose Reach spell)
13. the feat blinding spell includes the feat dazing spell (and that is when the effect fails ^^) either remove dazing spell or reduce the cost to one additional level
So long :)
Does the Personal Weapon talent stack with the enhancement bonus of a wizard's bonded weapon? the way it is worded, it seems to overlap and therefore makes the choice of both a bonded weapon and a personal weapon a nonsensical choice for magus-like characters.
As in the core rules, unless otherwise noted, like-named bonuses overlap; they do not stack.
Also, "boni" isn't the plural of "bonus" even in Latin -- it's the masculine genitive or some damn thing.
1. Is all this intentional?
5. does this really double the AC bonus and the DR from this feat? seems very powerful
7. Does the fortification from the fighter talent stack with fortification from armor special material or ability? (adamantine etc)
1. Yes
5. Yes, it is -- but no more so than the stuff you can do with TWF or THW. Remember, it doesn't work for animated shields, only shields that you're actually holding and using.7. Yes (see discussion above).
Ignore 11. in my last post - i got the feat names confused :)
Oh and regarding the question about moves between main and off-hand attacks - it could also just be a feature of spring attack instead of improved TWF (or a synergy feature if you have improved TWF and spring attack)
For the light shield you state that a shield enhancement bonus does not work for a shield bash attack, do you want to make a clause to that effect under the heavy shield also?
For you weapons table, the kestros was not added. Also do you want to create a separate entry for spiked shield and armor or just default to the normal pathfinder rules.
For the garrote, cord, garrote, wire, whip, and net: change references of improved wrestling maneuvers to improved grapple
The flails and whips description should come before hammers and picks to stay alphabetical.
Under the chaotic mind feat: you reference the zen warrior fighter talent that I believe was removed.
Under favored terrain: you state that it does not scale as a druid’s does, could you just say it does not scale instead?
Under the oath feat: you reference the multiple oaths feat in the last sentence, I believe it was removed.
For the resistance feat: Was it intentional to make it only for full BAB classes? Keying it off BAB rather than character level seems to make that the case.
Under the storm lashed feat change profession (sailor) to profession (sailing)
Under Familiar shadowform: is the feat still necessary since one now has the incorporeal familiar choice.
Under Urgent Shield: how long does the shield last once summoned?
Under Spell Mastery: remove the reference to read magic.
Under Spell Perfection: Change enlarge spell to reach spell.
Under Split Slot: Change references of Arcanum to feat.
Under Dodge, critical: I believe that improved uncanny dodge has been subsumed by the uncanny dodge feat.
Under feint, improved: you reference tricky maneuvers in the special section, did you decide to keep them as a maneuver choice?
Under the giant slayer feat: it should probably provide feat bonuses rather than racial bonus to attacks.
Under mounted combat: Change the ride skill references in the second paragraph of the benefit section to handle animal skill checks.
Under the bull rush, improved: Under the benefit section near the end of the 1st paragraph did you mean CMD rather than CMB? This also happens under the improved overrun feat.
Under the Critical, improved feat: delete the reference to a fighter bonus feat.
Under impaling attack feat: change the prereq reference of improved wrestling maneuvers to improved grapple.
Under power throw: The +11 and +16 abilities seem to be the same.
Under Distracting Lure: The prereq armor specialization should be Heavy Armor Optimization I believe.
Under redirection: Change the save reference of “half your monk level” to “half your character level”, also under synergy change improved forcing maneuvers to improved bull rush.
Under insightful strike: The BAB progression seems off, I think that abilities progression may be out of order (the +16 ability should maybe be the +6 ability?).
Under Severing strike: Change references to stroke of precision to severing strike.
Under demonic obedience: what is the benefit of the resistance gained equal to?
Thanks, Christopher. I'll tear through those as soon as I get a chance, and post a confirmation here.
Regarding Insightful Strike: i think the problem could be fixed by making the bonus grow like this:
- If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you automatically apply the relevant attribute modifier as an insight bonus to damage for the first attack you make in a round that successfully hits.
If you make a single Insightful Strike as a standard action, also add the relevant attribute modifier as an insight bonus to the attack roll.
- If your base attack bonus is +11 or higher, you always gain the relevant attribute modifier as an insight bonus to damage, even on a full attack. In addition, you automatically apply the relevant attribute modifier as an insight bonus to attack and CMB for the first attack you make in a round that successfully hits.
If you make a single Insightful Strike as a standard action, add twice the relevant attribute modifier as an insight bonus to damage.
- If your base attack bonus is +16 or higher, you always gain the relevant attribute modifier as an insight bonus to attacks, CMB, and damage, even on a full attack. the effects of your Insightful Strike automatically apply to the first attack you make in a round that successfully hits.
Well i suppose that also makes the progression a pain to read :O
BTW i noticed i screwed up in the table i posted on the last page regarding the barbarian: when picking canny defense, he only looses shields, not medium armor and shields
Regarding Insightful Strike: i think the problem could be fixed by making the bonus grow like this
It might be easier to take the last sentence of the BAB +6 ability, make that the BAB +11 ability; then move what was listed for BAB +11 to BAB +16, and eliminate the existing BAB +16 paragraph.
-the high elf 'eternal grudge' gives a +1/level favored enemy bonus to _all_ other pc races "in this section", capped at [1+lvl/2]. Essentially as ranger favored class option, but limited to 'civilized humanoids'. My first assumption was you select a race, but the text explicitly states all of them.To follow up:
To clarify the races affected, the text now reads "You gain a +1 favored enemy bonus (see ranger) against civilized humanoids other than high elves, or improve this existing favored enemy bonus by an additional +1, to a maximum bonus equal to half your character level +1." This pegs the ability to a standard ranger favored enemy choice, which I agree is better than the ill-defined "everybody else" it had before.Also, the range for favored enemy detection, instead of a 60-ft. cone, is now a cone of length equal to 5 ft. x your favored enemy bonus.
Also: Have attended to the other specific comments replied to just above.
I love your system and will try and post the errors in the text I find :) We haven't play-tested your system yet but are looking to in a month or so!)
That above fix for the Hight elves eternal Grudge should be fixed for Wood elves as well (who also have the Eternal Grudge :) )
Wood elves mention they are eligible for the 'Elf Paragon class (see above)'... it should be see below (as they now have there own Lledrith paragon class. The Hight elves treat there paragon as a Favoured class - the wood elves do not, I expect this harkens back to when they had but one paragon class - now there is two It seems the wood elf should treat it as a favoured class.
Also of note (perhaps): A 5th level Fighter1/Wizard4 with Eldrich Knight fighter talent and practised fighter feat cast spells as a 6th level wizard-The "Caster level" obtained through this combo should be capped somehow (obviously at character level-though not a blanket cap as as the archmage arcana etc. can raise caster level etc. above the norm)
Does casting a spell though an item (e.g. using eldirtch blast/wand bound item/staff bound item, a potion, a scroll, a normal wand etc) require the concentration check to cast?
It was pointed out that the cloak of resistance equivalent feat wont be as worthwhile for sorcerers and rougues etc. as for fighters without the Feat Mastery Feat... A fighter getting more out of weapon specilisation fits, but a two feats to allow non martial classes to essentially remove the need for an item seems meh.
Intelligence: 1)Why is there no equivlant +2 int feat as there is with the other mental stats? There is open minded... but I wondered at the reasoning for no strict int. item boost feat - this just seems to effect the chracter who would like the bonus without the item. I realise that basing the "cost" of a feat on skill points is odd as the feat would give you more skill points
High elves being "masters of the arcane" seems confused by the change to casting power=Cha (thematically it doesn't-but statistically it feels a Gnome or human with a CHA boost would be a stronger choice... I really liked how the elven +2 int made them superior wizards to gnomes (previously +2 dex~small, +2 con vs -2con hum!). Perhaps I am not valuing the strength of an extra high level spell per day for the high Int, but the elf seems a bit lacking behind the human... Open minded is almost the same as +2 int and humans can get +2 dex (or more likely Cha as well).. perhaps some lore option for the elf would do more than Elven magic now does to make them seem a strong choice for optimisation
On changing CD's to Charisma - I really like making casters MAD, and stopping CHA being a pointless stat. Could there be an option for wizards to get the serenity feat for free (not affecting there other classes)? My reasoning is Wis and Cha are both good stats in there own right now, but thematically the "forceful archmage"(in personality) and the cloistered dusty "academics" and the the "wise magician" are common in myth, stories etc... Normal/Diligent preparation and serenity respectively- but while diligent preparation is very strong serenity for a wizard does not give them more power, just a different archetype... so perhaps would be a good option. However you may judge that Wis>Cha so it requires the purchasing of the feat which is fine :)
While we are there: Bond arcane should not be allowed by characters with Diligent preparation etc. as it effectively makes diligent preparation a feat... (I'll base everything off of Int and now have a bonded item, tadah!)
Sorry this is so long and ramble - I should learn to format more!
God bless,
james
1. (Racial notes)
2. Also of note (perhaps): A 5th level Fighter1/Wizard4 with Eldrich Knight fighter talent and practised fighter feat cast spells as a 6th level wizard-The "Caster level" obtained through this combo should be capped somehow (obviously at character level-though not a blanket cap as as the archmage arcana etc. can raise caster level etc. above the norm)
3. Does casting a spell though an item (e.g. using eldirtch blast/wand bound item/staff bound item, a potion, a scroll, a normal wand etc) require the concentration check to cast?
4. It was pointed out that the cloak of resistance equivalent feat wont be as worthwhile for sorcerers and rogues etc.
5. Intelligence: 1)Why is there no equivlant +2 int feat as there is with the other mental stats? There is open minded... but I wondered at the reasoning for no strict int. item boost feat - this just seems to effect the chracter who would like the bonus without the item. I realise that basing the "cost" of a feat on skill points is odd as the feat would give you more skill points
6. High elves being "masters of the arcane" seems confused by the change to casting power=Cha (thematically it doesn't-but statistically it feels a Gnome or human with a CHA boost would be a stronger choice... I really liked how the elven +2 int made them superior wizards to gnomes)... perhaps some lore option for the elf would do more than Elven magic now does to make them seem a strong choice for optimisation
7. Could there be an option for wizards to get the serenity feat for free (not affecting there other classes)?
8. While we are there: Bond arcane should not be allowed by characters with Diligent preparation etc. as it effectively makes diligent preparation a feat... (I'll base everything off of Int and now have a bonded item, tadah!)
1. I've been editing the Races document for the last week or so; this will (hopefully) all be cleared up in the final version.
2. I'll admit it never occurred to me to use Practiced Fighter to create a positive feedback loop... I'll reword the feat to prevent that. Or maybe put a general note somewhere, too, so that people don't try to skeeve other similar combinations. Good catch.3. Anything not spelled out as being different works as it does in the core rules.
4. I'll think on that, and maybe key it to Hit Dice.
5. Yes -- Open Minded already gives skill points, and I didn't want to simply supersede that feat with +2 Int boosts going on all over the place.
6. Not every race should be a shoo-in for certain classes, but I'll think about this one and maybe provide another option. Really the high elf is now geared towards "gish" builds, given the paragon progression.
7. It could maybe be one of the options for a generalist's bonus feat.
8. This exploit is specifically prohibited in the Diligent Preparation description.
Also of note (perhaps): A 5th level Fighter1/Wizard4 with Eldrich Knight fighter talent and practised fighter feat cast spells as a 6th level wizard-The "Caster level" obtained through this combo should be capped somehow (obviously at character level-though not a blanket cap as as the archmage arcana etc. can raise caster level etc. above the norm)
To address this, I recommend adding the following note right in the Introduction document:
CLASS SYNERGY FEATURES
There are a large number of feats and class features in these rules, intended to facilitate multiclassing, that modify your effective class level for certain other class features. For example, the Eldritch Knight fighter talent allows you to add half your fighter level to your arcane caster level for purposes of determining spells known, spells per day, and caster level, so that a 4th level fighter/4th level wizard casts spells as a 6th level wizard.
Class synergy features from the same class, affecting the same alternate class, do not stack. For example, the Practiced Fighter feat allows you to treat your fighter level as 4 higher for purposes of determining the effects of your fighter talents. Under this non-stacking rule, Practiced Fighter does not stack with the Eldritch Knight talent described above (so that the example character is not treated as an 8th level fighter for purposes of the Eldritch Knight talent, and does not cast spells as an 8th level wizard).
Features that apply synergy between different pairs of classes do stack, however, so that a 4th level fighter/4th level rogue/4th level wizard with the Eldritch Knight talent and the analogous Arcane Trickster rogue ability would cast spells as an 8th level wizard.
Standardized Spellcasting Progressions: Help Wanted.
1. I'm sort of feeling like it might be nice to have a standard table for spells known, spells per day, etc., so instead of repeating the same tables in the Favored Soul and Sorcerer documents (for example), we could just reference the main table and be done with it. Bards could reference the same table, and just have one column that lists their effective full caster level for the progression (starting at 1st and capping at 14th). Etc.
2. It might also be nice to have the spontaneous "spells known" exactly mirror the prepared "spells prepared per day," and end up saving a table that way.
One advantage, obviously, would be that if you're something goofy like a sorcerer 5/bard 12, we could take your sorcerer level (5th), and your effective full caster level from bard levels (9th), and add them: you get one set of spells, according to the 14th level caster row on the table. This would be especially nice if you take some racial paragon levels that also improve spellcasting.
But then I think of a sorcerer 6/bard 1/rogue (arcane trickster) 1, who gets no benefit from the bard and rogue progressions he's giving up. Wouldn't it be nice to have a fractional progression, like for saves? So we could add up all the 2/3 casting levels (2, in this case), and add them to the main caster level, and he'd cast spells as a 7th level sorcerer, instead of a 6th level sorcerer. And then we wouldn't even need that extra column in the bard document: we'd just have a "2/3 progression" table in the main document.
And that's where I peter out. Do you combine all the tables, and calculate it as 6*(1/1) + 2*(2/3) = 7 1/3 level, and look at that row on a big table? Or do you just stick with 6 on the main table + 2 on a separate "2/3" table? Or what?
Any experience with other systems/supplements that do something similar?
|
Trailblazer does that exact thing, with Sorcerers getting bonus spell slots as a class feature, and Wizards getting bonus spells known the same way. I am amenable to it. Multiclassing is handled by a Base Magic Bonus for all classes, which you add together to determine where on the spell chart you fall.
So a Wizard2/Cleric2 is a 4th level caster, a Wizard2/Fighter2 is a 2nd level Caster, and a Wizard2/Bard2 is a 3rd level caster, but everyone has only one set of spells.
Edit: I was mistaken, Wizards get extra preparation slots, not spells known. This was a concern of mine, Trailblazer gives the entire spell list to every caster, like clerics/druids. We will want to tweak that.
Trailblazer does that exact thing, with Sorcerers getting bonus spell slots as a class feature, and Wizards getting bonus spells known the same way. I am amenable to it.
Any chance I could get a look at how they do it, so as not to re-invent the wheel? Or I suppose I could just bite the bullet and order another copy for the group...
I just looked at the previews they posted and saw some other stuff that might be good to have. I may just go ahead and buy a PDF of Trailblazer and be done with it -- if I can get DriveThruRPG to work (it usually doesn't for me, for some reason).
Book of XMight can probably wait. And what did I need that one for again?
Oh, yeah! Thanks!
one issue of rolling them all up and having one nice package (which i think is a very good idea) is to make sure the interaction between prepared casters and spontaneous casters works correctly... and combings spontaneous casters worked correctly: that is your bard/sorcerer his spells known would be outstripping a bard (potentially ie past 6th level); but what table does he take them from? His spells known that is... You would assume the sorcerer list... but would then a level of favored soul unlock the entire clerical list... <With wizard/sorcerers the question would be what spells could be prepared... would one level of wizard allow access to all spells etc...>
Obviously I'm playing devils advocate here - I like the idea a lot; just had some spanners to throw :)
God Bless,
james
His spells known that is... You would assume the sorcerer list... but would then a level of favored soul unlock the entire clerical list... <With wizard/sorcerers the question would be what spells could be prepared... would one level of wizard allow access to all spells etc...
Good questions, and ones I don't have glib answers to yet (although I'd sort of like to see a talent that would open class lists up to "X" level). I'll take a look at Trailblazer, think some more, and come back to this.
Trailblazer is good.
I love their iterative attacks. I really got a lot out of that book, though I only adopted that.
Bought Trailblazer last night and looked through the spells stuff. I'm not going to switch to a straight-out "base spell bonus," but I think a judicious synthesis might work.
1. Spellcasting tables are standardized and provided in the Introduction (yes, this adds annoying cross-referencing, but it saves a lot on page count, which is potentially more important when this thing goes to print!). Spells known for spontaneous guys, and spells prepared for preparation casters, follow the Cleric table. Spells per day for spontaneous casters follow the Sorcerer table.
2. Spellcasting classes have a single column indicating their effective spellcasting level (for spells known and spells per day), referencing the master table. For single-classed full casters, it's 1:1, so at 5th level, your caster level column reads "5th." For others, like bards and monks, it's staggered a bit as appropriate. Effective caster level (for calculating ranges, etc.) might still be equal to class level for bards, etc.
3. Bonus spells (cleric domain, sorcerer bloodline, specialist wizard school) are, as in Trailblazer, defined as class features. Generalist wizards pick any spell on the class list of the appropriate level to fill a bonus spell slot, which makes them more versatile than specialists (and allows them to essentially follow the progression they already had).
4. Certain class combinations allow spellcasting synergy, as described for each. A third table is added to the Intro that shows synergy for good casting progressions (full casters and bards) and poor casting progressions (half-casters). Good casting synergy is 3/4 level, intentionally starting at +1 so that it doesn't match BAB progression. Poor casting progression is 1/2 level. Which lists(s) you have access to would be described in each specific class entry for synergy -- doing it this way would allow us later on to enhance and/or nerf one combo that might prove problematic, without affecting the others.
5. A multiclass character with the appropriate synergy would start with his best class, add all all levels providing good progression and compare, add all levels providing poor progression and compare, and total them up (this is just like the way saving throws now work).
Example: A sorcerer 2 multiclasses into bard, and advances to sorcerer 2/bard 5. Instead of tracking sorcerer and bard casting separately, he takes his sorcerer level, applies +3 (Good synergy) from bard levels, and ends up casting spells as a 5th level sorcerer, with access to the bard and sorcerer lists. He later takes 6 levels in prestige paladin, and applies +3 levels for Poor synergy there, finally casting spells as an 8th level sorcerer (2 for sorcerer, +3 for good bard synergy progression, +3 for poor paladin synergy progression) -- but with access to the sorcerer, bard, and paladin spell lists.
--
If there are any objections/suggestions/comments, let me know!
Looking forward to seeing the updated docs for this. The consolidated spell progression was one thing that made me sit up and take notice.
When they're done (hopefully after this weekend), I'll email them to you for review. At your convenience, you can provide comments and/or hopefully spot any bugs, before I make a general mailing.
P.S. I'll send advance drafts to any of the other players who request them as well.
In the examples, at what level does the multiclass character cast bard and paladin spells in the[se] two cases:
1. Bard 6 for the first case, and
2. Bard 9/Paladin 9 for the second case?
1. Spells known and spells per day as a 5th level sorcerer, to keep the "0+1" entries in the same places. CL would still be 6th for range, duration, etc.
2. 5th equivalent, +4 for poor advancement = 9th level sorcerer for spells known and spells per day (unless we stagger the paladin caster level increases like they currently are, in which case it would be 10th). CL calculated as listed in the Prestige Paladin class description.
I'll make a note here when I've got them in place, and maybe put relevant text in spoilers. Unfortunately, this forum doesn't support tables, so those will have to be left to the imagination. Of course, if people get intrigued by whatever I can post here, they can always provide email addresses at that point and I can send them formatted drafts.
As a side note, I've been having an annoying mental debate with myself about Good progression providing +1 at 1st level (+1/+1/+2/+3/+4/+4/+5/+6/+7/+7...), vs. having it follow the medium BAB progression (+0/+1/+2/+3/+3/+4/+5/+6/+6/+7...).
Dunno. But that's all on the multiclassing side of things. As far as having a standardized spell progression table, I LOVE how much that "cleans up" the class documents -- the wizard's level table now fits in a single column on the page, allowing me to maintain the 2-column text format on the first page of the document, and it cuts down the casters' repeated text by several paragraphs as well. Along with getting rid of the saving throw columns, it really strips down the class presentations.
I'm happy to look through the document early if i get a chance :), although I'm unusually busy next week so can't promise :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It looks like things are starting to stabilize, so I will begin looking at spells to see what we need to do about getting them in line with everything else we're doing.
One thing I started on (and never got too far into, unfortunately) was making the building blocks more transparent. That is, mass hold person is simply a hold person spell with the Mass Spell metamagic feat added to it. Cone of cold is nothing more than a ray of frost with Reach Spell and Shape Spell metamagic feats added to it. Greater mage armor (+6 AC) is nothing more than mage armor heightened to 3rd level. Etc. There are some examples in the intro section to the Metamagic feats.
I know you're looking more at the 1e effects end of things, but hopefully you can keep that in mind.
Andostre and I have also been talking on and off about another idea we both like -- one day I'd really like to see a system where paralysis spells do Dex damage (save for half, 0 Dex = paralyzed), death spells would deal Con damage (0 = dead), etc. This would make SOD/SOL spells (a) less binary in effect, and (b) a lot scarier on a successful save, making you wish you hadn't let the caster get that spell off! Some ideas, off the cuff:
It would take some effort to peg the conditions to the attributes being targeted, and to set what's "reasonable" ability damage/drain, but it would be totally worth it to me!
That's all I've got for now.
|
I asked James Jacobs what are his thought about high level combat. I think that the answer may be of interest to Kirthfinder project.
What are your thoughts on iterative attacks at higher levels? Is there any point to them, with such a large penalties?
The "large penalties" don't impact as much as you might think... unless you engineer every single high-level combat to be a super tough one. Which is not a good idea. Players need opportunities to feel high level. In any event, I'm not a fan of iterative attacks, since the extra die rolls and the changing modifiers are one of the primary things that makes higher level combat slow down. Eventaully, I'd like to houserule the Vital Strike feat chain into being something that EVERYONE gets for free, and rather than allow extra attacks just give people extra damage.
The difference is that Kirthfinder is designed around iterative attacks being a feature, rather than a bug. If you can move 15 feet, smack someone, take a 5-ft. step and hit someone else, then see someone casting a spell 10 feet away, cover that distance and smack him before he gets the spell off? That's what makes fighters awesome. I have no desire to take that away from them!
I should also point out that iterative attacks in straight 3.5/PF don't slow play at all. Rather, poor player etiquette slows play. For every guy who insists on rolling his iteratives one at a time, then sitting and doing the math to see what his attack results are, then rolling damage? There's someone else like Derek rolling all the dice at once and announcing the result. Just as, for every wizard who casts a spell and is done, there's another player who has to stop the game to find what page the spell is on and figure out what it does.
And none of them are anywhere near as bad as houstonderek and I getting sidetracked discussing movies or novels or whatever -- which can happen at ANY level of play!
Want to speed up high-level play? Enforce etiquette standards at the table at lower levels. Then when you get to high levels, they're automatic, and people don't do all the things that slow play down so much.
Yeah, I get that as well - but I think that Vital Strike can be added as a bonus feat to Fighter at least
See the fighter document. They automatically get Vital Strike as a bonus feat at 6th level, when they get their 1st iterative attack. So no need to add that option to the fighter -- it's already there.
(And Vital Strike in KF of course scales with level, subsuming the other VS feats in the chain.)
It is possible that I do not have the latest iteration of Fighter.
Our PBP started under the Alpha playtest rules. TOZ linked to the Beta playtest rules on p. 1 of this thread -- the fighter as listed there should be pretty close to up-to-date.
Yeah, it was probably me not paying attention.
In your defense, that jerkwad Kirth keeps changing the rules when he finds problems with the old ones. Look at this thread -- it's 8 pages of him saying "Boo-hoo, this doesn't work quite right, I need to fix it, woe is me." The whole thing is sickening.
Hi, Some more random questions and possible errors form the bits of the rules I've been reading :)
1)Cleric Knowledge Domain feats - A cleric or archivist with access to the Knowledge domain can select the Student of War and Battle Leader feats (see Combat Feats) as if they were domain feats... I have no idea why this is there (they don't sound like knowledge feats, and they don't seem to exist in the feat section :))
2)Favoured soul - extra spell class feature (instead of +1hp etc) is not in sink with wizard / sorcerer equivilant
2b)in the spells section it mentions you begin with two first level spells of your choice - this is not true, it is one spell of your choice and one mystery spell :P
2c)The Mercy Mystery's- final revelation does not make sence - it grants AOE regeneration (awesome) and then mentions something non-sequita about damage types... did it use to grant damage reduction?
3)In the sorcerer document the description of the 17th level power (Impromoptu spell) is described before the 16th level power (Greater eldritch blast)
3b)incanatrix must be femail - err why? It's a bit like the paladin being LG, shouldn't be tied to the bloodline, just suggested as how you would use it in "world x"... not that I mind :P
3c)The starsoul has various powers that cause suffocation... it should be clarified if this is the "three save then dead" type(which i assume, but quite powerful) or the "hold breath for Con rounds" then 3 save = dead variety (which would make it seem very weak (as under the powers a save every round is allowed)...
4)The Conjurer's wand "Eldritch Blast" ability does not improve at 14th (or is it 12th?) level - all the other's do. if this is intentional it should be mentioned :)
5)Could it be clarified when you get grit back - the wording of critical/dropping foe when "using" it is unclear... perhaps clarifying doing one of these things during a round in which grit is used (example if i spend grit on having dodge for a round and kill a goblin do i get it back - i think the intention is yes, but it's not clear... what if i use it to re-roll that will save... etc)
6)Spell Focus + greater spell focus (and spell penetration to a lesser extent...) -> you've done true awesomeness making fighter feats scale with level - but this notable caster feat does not. It would be nice if it did (with caster level - probably simply +1DC/10 caster levels, maybe +1/6 at the other end). More feats for cool things rather than standard "power" (2x spell focus, 2x spell penetration) would be good :)
7)Some thoughts on combined spellcasting - some classes with reduced casting progression (eg bard) get spells at an earlier caster level than full casters(eg hideous laughter): With the proposed combined spell casting changes this could allow a sorcerer to take a 1 level dip into bard simply to open up more powerful spells to put into lower level spell slots - If this would be the case a counter to it is to only allow spell from a class list to be chosen is your level in the appropriate class equals the level of the spell (so you would have to take 2 levels of bard to get the hideous laughter spell as a second level spell - obviously this is more pronounced and important for the higher level spells of reduced cost)
Edit: 6-if this inadvertently down-powers specialist implements (they would now give one not two feats; you could 1)Give you feat focus (spell focus) at 6th level :)2)allow them to up your specialization caster level by one at 6th level 3)or give you arcane defense
STANDARDIZED SPELLCASTING RULES (DRAFT)
Basics and Definition of Terms:
Bonus Spells: Most casting classes provide bonus spells, such as the cleric’s domain spells, the sorcerer’s bloodline spells, etc. These are shown on Spellcasting Table 1 for the sake of convenience, but represent class features, rather than automatic acquisitions. Multiclassed casters may not receive them (see Spell Theurgy, below).
Cantrips and Orisons: You learn or can prepare a number of 0-level spells (“cantrips” for arcane casters, “orisons” for divine casters), as shown in the tables. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used at will.
Caster Level: This is the level at which your spells operate, used to determine duration, range, damage, and other level-dependent effects of your spells. It is not necessarily the same as your Spellcasting Progression Level (q.v.).
Spellcasting Progression Level: This is your row on the standardized spellcasting tables, which corresponds to an equivalent level of a full spellcaster in the core rules. Your spell progression level determines your spells known and spells per day, and the highest level of spells to which you have access.
Spellcasting Attribute: Each class has a single attribute that governs spellcasting, as listed in the class description. You are unable to learn, prepare, or cast spells from that class list if your attribute is less than 10 + the level of the spell.
Prepared Casting: You must choose and prepare your spells in advance. You can prepare and cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. The number of spells per spell level you can have prepared at a time is shown in Spellcasting Table 1: Spells Known or Prepared. In addition, you receive additional spells per day if you have a high spellcasting attribute score.
Spontaneous Casting: You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. You can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Your base daily spell allotment is given on Table 2: Spontaneous Spells per Day. In addition, you receive additional spells per day if you have a high spellcasting attribute score.
(Standard progression tables follow; they look pretty much like the sorcerer tables. Prepared casters use the "spells known" table for spells prepared.)
Multiclassing: THEURGY
This type of spellcasting improvement will be termed “theurgy” in these rules, after the Mystic Theurge prestige class in the core rules, and because of the linguistic similarity with the word “synergy.”
There are two rates of advancement for Spell Theurgy: Strong advancement (provided by classes such as the bard), and Weak advancement (provided by the “half-casting” classes such as the ranger and the monk), as summarized in Spellcasting Table 3, below.
(Table similar to saving throw progression table follows).
Applying Theurgy: When spellcasting theurgy is used, the improvements shown in Spellcasting Table 3 are applied directly to your Spellcasting Progression Level on Tables 1 and 2 (and not necessarily to the level in the class being advanced). For example, a bard 6 normally has a Spellcasting Progression Level (q.v.) of 5th (Bard Table 1). Upon gaining 6 levels in ranger and selecting the Harper Scout ranger lore (allowing your ranger levels to provide Weak theurgy towards your bard casting), your new Spellcasting Progression Level would be 8th (5 + 3), allowing you to cast 4th level bard spells. This referral back to a standard table avoids unduly penalizing bards and other part-casters who gain improvements in those casting progressions from another such class.
Stacking Theurgy: If you have more than one class providing theurgy towards a third class’ spellcasting progression, then theurgy works similarly to saving throws: add all levels providing weak theurgy together and compare the total advancement in the appropriate column on Table 3; add all levels providing strong theurgy and check the total against the advancement on Table 3; and apply the total advancement to your Spellcasting Progression Level on Tables 1 and 2.
Theurgy and Caster Level: Your Caster Level (q.v.) is calculated as normal for the base spellcasting class, adding theurgy levels appropriately. Alternatively, some classes allowing theurgy (e.g., the Prestige Paladin) provide better caster level progression as well, as noted in the appropriate class descriptions.