So I tossed around a couple of Castlevania ideas (Dhampyr magus = Alucard), but then inspiration struck from a different source: Jack Kirby.
Take a halfling. Give him Childlike and Pass for Human, along with the Perfect Servant trait reskinned so aristocrats mistake him for a very well brought up noble child. Dress him to the nines in the sort of twee clothes that only the very very rich can afford to inflict on their offspring.
Now make him a witch with a cat familiar.
And you have... Klarion the Witch Boy! ("Ba dum bum" strongly discouraged.)
Still working on him -- I'm looking at a debuffing role with the Halfling Jinx/Evil Eye/Malicious Eye combo, and the cat will get upgraded to a silvanshee at 7th level (add anthropomorphic animal and enlarge person and you've got Teekl's werecatgirl mode).
I'd appreciate suggestions for patron and general spell list in the "trickster" mode (the actual trickery patron is obviously an option, but not the only one), as well as critiques of the following build (we'll be rolling stats randomly tomorrow, so I can't give you a point breakdown there):
RACIAL TRAITS
Halfling Jinx - replaces Halfling Luck (HoG)
TRAITS
Perfect Servant (HoG)
On the Payroll or Making Good on Promises(CCPG)
(Because there seems to be no tab feature, everything after a / is a hex.)
FEATS/ HEXES
01 - Childlike (APG)/ Evil Eye
02 /Charm
03 - Pass for Human (APG)
04 /Misfortune
05 - Malicious Eye (HoG)
06 /Cackle
07 - Improved Familiar (Core)
08 /Fortune
09 - Sluggish Jinx (HoG)
10 /Retribution
11 - Extra Hex (APG) /Beast of Ill-Omen
12 /Agony
13 - Split Hex (UM)
14 /Waxen Image
15 - Accursed Hex (UM)
16 /Beast Eye
17 - Extra Hex (APG) /Weather Control
18 /Dire Prophecy
19 - Extra Hex (APG) /Witch's Hut
20 /Death Curse
...no love? ;.;
The evolving character concept is of a young man who spends his time infiltrating human society and doing subtle mischief to the bad folks. Which I suppose is the kind of thing that sparks witch hunts even in a witch-friendly environment like Ustalav...
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So I tossed around a couple of Castlevania ideas (Dhampyr magus = Alucard), but then inspiration struck from a different source: Jack Kirby.
Take a halfling. Give him Childlike and Pass for Human, along with the Perfect Servant trait reskinned so aristocrats mistake him for a very well brought up noble child. Dress him to the nines in the sort of twee clothes that only the very very rich can afford to inflict on their offspring.
Now make him a witch with a cat familiar.
And you have... Klarion the Witch Boy! ("Ba dum bum" strongly discouraged.)
Still working on him -- I'm looking at a debuffing role with the Halfling Jinx/Evil Eye/Malicious Eye combo, and the cat will get upgraded to a silvanshee at 7th level (add anthropomorphic animal and enlarge person and you've got Teekl's werecatgirl mode).
I'd appreciate suggestions for patron and general spell list in the "trickster" mode (the actual trickery patron is obviously an option, but not the only one), as well as critiques of the following build (we'll be rolling stats randomly tomorrow, so I can't give you a point breakdown there):
RACIAL TRAITS
Halfling Jinx - replaces Halfling Luck (HoG)
TRAITS
Perfect Servant (HoG)
On the Payroll or Making Good on Promises(CCPG)
(Because there seems to be no tab feature, everything after a / is a hex.)
FEATS/ HEXES01 - Childlike (APG)/ Evil Eye
02 /Charm
03 - Pass for Human (APG)
04 /Misfortune
05 - Malicious Eye (HoG)
06 /Cackle
07 - Improved Familiar (Core)
08 /Fortune
09 - Sluggish Jinx (HoG)
10 /Retribution
11 - Extra Hex (APG) /Beast of Ill-Omen
12 /Agony
13 - Split Hex (UM)
14 /Waxen Image
15 - Accursed Hex (UM)
16 /Beast Eye
17 - Extra Hex (APG) /Weather Control
18 /Dire Prophecy
19 - Extra Hex (APG) /Witch's Hut
20 /Death Curse
Well I can only really comment on the Witch aspects and for that I'd say swap Charm to 8th level (before that straight diplomacy is just as good) and take Slumber in it's place, drop the Fortune hex completely (it's only effective for one reroll per person per day, you have better uses for that hex slot) and take Scar instead.
Retribution is a very nice hex but Icy Tomb is much better (Tomb completely takes the target out of the fight and doesn't cost your party any hit points like Retribution)
I've never found much use for Beast of Ill Omen (Feral Speech sounds more useful for your theme) or Dire Prophecy (it's just an upgraded evil eye which you already have) and would HIGHLY recommend replacing it with Summon Spirit (You know you can have up to TWENTY 18 HD Ghosts working for you at any given time of any class/race combo you want.)
For the rest I'll have to go find my copy of Halflings of Golarion to figure out what your choices actually do for your build.
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drop the Fortune hex completely (it's only effective for one reroll per person per day, you have better uses for that hex slot)Fortune can be extended with Cackle, and targets get one reroll per turn. It can only affect a person once per day, but that one time can have it's duration boosted as many times as you like.
Incorrect, the DURATION of Fortune can be extended with Cackle but the Benefit from Fortune can only be applied once per day.
Fortune (Su): The witch can grant a creature within 30 feet a bit of good luck for 1 round. The target can call upon this good luck once per round, allowing him to reroll any ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, taking the better result. He must decide to use this ability before the first roll is made. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round.
Once a creature has benefited from the fortune hex, it cannot benefit from it again for 24 hours.
Add to that you have to decide to use it before you know that you need it makes it a LOT worse then you think.
As for fortune, Cackle uses a move action to extend any and all misfortune, fortune, evil eye, agony, and charm hexes within thirty feet by a round. And you can keep on cackling. (Or, in Klarion's case, giggling creepily.) Granted you'll need a good team to keep the enemy away, but this party may have as many as seven players so I think it could work. Seems like a good investment.
Charm - I'm seeing him as an assistant diplomat (I don't do speeches well), using the hex and other bonuses to give the party's face an added edge. Skills will definitely be non-optimized as I'll be taking at least three cross-classes (Disguise, Diplomacy, Bluff).
Beast of Ill Omen... all about stacking those penalties up.
(Halfling Jinx: -1 to all saving throws for 24 hours, one target at a time. Malicious Eye: stack the Jinx effects onto your Evil Eye, and you can ignore the one-jinxed-target rule. Sluggish Jinx: your jinx penalty also applies to initiative and attack. Thus, with one hex I impose -1 to attacks, init, and all saves AS WELL AS the Evil Eye's -2 to one of AC, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. So that can be stacked to a -3 on one of the jinxed abilities or used as a -2 on a fourth category. Then Teekl crosses the target's path with a BoIO, hitting it with a Bane effect -- -1 on attack rolls and fear saves. (Which reminds me, definitely taking Making Good on Promises, all that fear resistance is perfect for the concept.) Drop Agony on there, that's Nauseated, target gets only move actions. Dire Prophecy is the cherry on this sundae of delicious suffering, imposing an additional -4 to AC, attacks, saves, skill and ability checks, with the option of burning it for at least a -18 to one roll. (Of course the adventure path will probably end before 18th level, but we might continue from there.)
Seriously, I'm not seeing any bad there. :)
You're definitely right about Ice Tomb though, taking a target completely out of combat is better than Retribution.
...Summon Spirit is just too cheesy even for me, though. ^.^
By my reading of the Fortune hex, the target gets a reroll once per round until the hex expires, then can't have it reapplied for a day. ...I think? Is there an official clarification?
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As for fortune, Cackle uses a move action to extend any and all misfortune, fortune, evil eye, agony, and charm hexes within thirty feet by a round. And you can keep on cackling. (Or, in Klarion's case, giggling creepily.) Granted you'll need a good team to keep the enemy away, but this party may have as many as seven players so I think it could work. Seems like a good investment.
Charm - I'm seeing him as an assistant diplomat (I don't do speeches well), using the hex and other bonuses to give the party's face an added edge. Skills will definitely be non-optimized as I'll be taking at least three cross-classes (Disguise, Diplomacy, Bluff).
Beast of Ill Omen... all about stacking those penalties up.
(Halfling Jinx: -1 to all saving throws for 24 hours, one target at a time. Malicious Eye: stack the Jinx effects onto your Evil Eye, and you can ignore the one-jinxed-target rule. Sluggish Jinx: your jinx penalty also applies to initiative and attack. Thus, with one hex I impose -1 to attacks, init, and all saves AS WELL AS the Evil Eye's -2 to one of AC, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. So that can be stacked to a -3 on one of the jinxed abilities or used as a -2 on a fourth category. Then Teekl crosses the target's path with a BoIO, hitting it with a Bane effect -- -1 on attack rolls and fear saves. (Which reminds me, definitely taking Making Good on Promises, all that fear resistance is perfect for the concept.) Drop Agony on there, that's Nauseated, target gets only move actions. Dire Prophecy is the cherry on this sundae of delicious suffering, imposing an additional -4 to AC, attacks, saves, skill and ability checks, with the option of burning it for at least a -18 to one roll. (Of course the adventure path will probably end before 18th level, but we might continue from there.)
Seriously, I'm not seeing any bad there. :)
You're definitely right about Ice Tomb though, taking a target completely out of combat is better than Retribution.
...Summon Spirit...
I addressed the Cackle->fortune in last post but lets hit a few more points here.
Charm (like all the other mind effecting spells) only raises the targets attitude towards YOU not anyone else in your party and since it only raises it one step it's just like using diplomacy on it before 8th level. And since it directly references the Diplomacy skill it doesn't stack with any use of that skill.If you are actually going to take diplomacy wait on this hex till 8th when it becomes better than Diplomacy.
Beast of Ill-Omen has one slight flaw in it. It requires the target to see the familiar, which means putting your familiar in danger. A dangerous proposition for just a -1 to hit and fear resistance. I see your idea and it does have a use, I'm just wary of risking my familiar (and a standard action on my part) for such a small gain in combat.
The combo you have set up is nasty but there is a significant flaw in it, this takes 4 rounds of combat to pull off and 4 different saves.
(1 rnd to Evil Eye +Jinx, 1 rnd for BoIO, 1 rnd for Agony +1 rnd for Dire Prophecy) To make sure it works you'd also need to drop a misfortune in there somewhere so 5 rnds at least.
Effective, but with the Rocket Tag that high level games become and the need to stay within 30 feet while attracting this much attention you will probably never have the time or live long enough to get this stacked.
edit: (Scar Hex would allow you to do this from a mile away and that might give you the time and room to do this however)
Yes, Summon Spirit CAN be extremely cheesy but it IS a GRAND Hex and is up to you to keep it balanced.
And no, we don't have an official ruling on Cackle+fortune so it varies based on GM interpretation, I usually pick the most restrictive since many GM's are always trying to rein in PC power.
The issue I always see is the Hex doesn't say be affected by, it specifies benefit from which is very exact. I've always seen it interpreted as once you have used this hex's power you can't get that bonus again for 24 hours but you CAN still be affected by the hex again. (when you use the bonus you lose it but the hex stays on)
You've probably got a point about both charm and fortune. (Errata'd Scar is SO powerful I'm worried it'll get nerfed next patch.) I think I see a cheese on BoIO though.
The hex goes off on "the next enemy to see (your familiar)." Nothing is said about how long it can be hung on the familiar before expiring or being set off. If preparing for combat, you could drop it on the cat and then all it would require was a move action on the familiar's part (better against solo enemies, of course, otherwise it gets hard to guarantee who spots it first). And once Teekl upgrades to silvanshee, she can change to gaseous form as her standard action for that round (heck, the hex would still work if all the enemy sees is a patch of mist! And there's also dimension door 1/day which she can still use even in gaseous form! This is better than I thought!)
Silvanshees also get constant speak with animals, so Feral Speech is unnecessary if you're willing to work through a translator.
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I like your concept, but I feel that you are not doing the most of the Jinx ability. Maybe you would be better off doing away with the jinx completely. This way, you will get back the +1 on all saves and free 2 feats with which to strengthen your witchy powers.
Let's face it. The jinx ability by itself does not do much unless you go the full Bolster Jinx way. Once you get the -3 on all saves it gets really devastating, and Sluggish Jinx becomes really worthwhile. Note that it is unclear whether you need all 3 saves-boosting feats to get there (which was my interpretation) or if 2 are enough (which is how my GM ruled it).
Of course, this is feat-expensive.
At least, rather than Sluggish Jinx, take the Worst Case feat. Its effects are far more powerful, especially when you enter protracted combat. Keeping your opponents' healing minimal will quickly make the difference.
Black Raven: Man, that's nasty.
I'm now tempted to drop the whole kid-disguise thing and concentrate on getting a fully Bolstered Malicious Sluggish Jinx-Eye. Let's see what can be done here... Iron Will first, to start things off by dropping the target's Will save...
(If the target makes its Will save against the EE, turning the duration down to one round, will Cackle still extend that?)
RACIAL TRAIT
Halfling Jinx - replaces Halfling Luck (HoG)
TRAITS
Unafraid (Orcs of Golarion)
On the Payroll (CCPG)
FEATS HEXES
01 - Malicious Eye (HoG) /Evil Eye
02 /Cackle
03 - Iron Will
04 /Misfortune
05 - Bolster Jinx (HoG)
06 /Scar
07 - Improved Familiar
08 /Beast of Ill-Omen
09 - Sluggish Jinx (HoG)
10 /Icy Tomb
11 - Lightning Reflexes
12 /Agony
13 - Great Fortitude
14 /Waxen Image
15 - Split Hex (UM)
16 /Beast Eye
17 - Accursed Hex (UM)
18 /Dire Prophecy
19 - Extra Hex (APG) /Witch's Hut
20 /Death Curse
I'm thinking either Enchantment or Trickery for patron.
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I think I see a cheese on BoIO though.
The hex goes off on "the next enemy to see (your familiar)." Nothing is said about how long it can be hung on the familiar before expiring or being set off. If preparing for combat, you could drop it on the cat and then all it would require was a move action on the familiar's part (better against solo enemies, of course, otherwise it gets hard to guarantee who spots it first).
Even more cheese...
Do you know when it goes off? Exactly what defines enemy, anyway?
Done out of combat, can it work as a cut-rate Detect enemies? Someone sneaking up on you, or lying in wait, sees the familiar and boom!
Not only is he cursed, but you know there's an enemy around.Probably shouldn't work.
I thought of that, but my gut instinct is to go with "creature you're already aware of and have decided is an enemy."
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Black Raven: Man, that's nasty.
I'm now tempted to drop the whole kid-disguise thing and concentrate on getting a fully Bolstered Malicious Sluggish Jinx-Eye. Let's see what can be done here... Iron Will first, to start things off by dropping the target's Will save...
(If the target makes its Will save against the EE, turning the duration down to one round, will Cackle still extend that?)
RACIAL TRAIT
Halfling Jinx - replaces Halfling Luck (HoG)
TRAITS
Unafraid (Orcs of Golarion)
On the Payroll (CCPG)
FEATS HEXES
01 - Malicious Eye (HoG) /Evil Eye
02 /Cackle
03 - Iron Will
04 /Misfortune
05 - Bolster Jinx (HoG)
06 /Scar
07 - Improved Familiar
08 /Beast of Ill-Omen
09 - Sluggish Jinx (HoG)
10 /Icy Tomb
11 - Lightning Reflexes
12 /Agony
13 - Great Fortitude
14 /Waxen Image
15 - Split Hex (UM)
16 /Beast Eye
17 - Accursed Hex (UM)
18 /Dire Prophecy
19 - Extra Hex (APG) /Witch's Hut
20 /Death CurseI'm thinking either Enchantment or Trickery for patron.
First, yes cackle will extend the evil eye even if they make the save. This is why evil eye should be the FIRST hex you take if you intend on getting cackle.
Second drop the iron will feat, you have will as your strongest save and all iron will does is increase you will save.
Now push scar until later since for what you want to do with it you need split hex and you can't have that till 10th. This also means take Split hex at 11th
Why in the world did you take EVERY save boosting feat available? buy a cloak +5 and spend those feats on something useful.
Either of those Patrons are good and solidify you in your party support role.
First, yes cackle will extend the evil eye even if they make the save. This is why evil eye should be the FIRST hex you take if you intend on getting cackle.
True, but the additional Jinx penalty will not apply at all if they make their Evil Eye save.
Second drop the iron will feat, you have will as your strongest save and all iron will does is increase you will save.
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Why in the world did you take EVERY save boosting feat available? buy a cloak +5 and spend those feats on something useful.
Because he's taking Malicious Eye and Bolster Jinx, the save-boosting feats increase the Jinx penalty on their respective saves by 2, for a total -3 to all saves once he has all 3 feats. This -3 is applied to the Evil Eye hex through the Malicious Eye feat, in addition to whatever penalty he chooses for Evil Eye. Yes, it stacks and yes, at 8th level and above, as long as he has the 3 saving throw feats, he could impose a -7 to saving throws if he so desires. A potent combination, albeit at a high feat cost.
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First, yes cackle will extend the evil eye even if they make the save. This is why evil eye should be the FIRST hex you take if you intend on getting cackle.True, but the additional Jinx penalty will not apply at all if they make their Evil Eye save.
Because he's taking Malicious Eye and Bolster Jinx, the save-boosting feats increase the Jinx penalty on their respective saves by 2, for a total -3 to all saves once he has all 3 feats. This -3 is applied to the Evil Eye hex through the Malicious Eye feat, in addition to whatever penalty he chooses for Evil Eye. Yes, it stacks and yes, at 8th level and above, as long as he has the 3 saving throw feats, he could impose a -7 to saving throws if he so desires. A potent combination, albeit at a high feat cost.Second drop the iron will feat, you have will as your strongest save and all iron will does is increase you will save.
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Why in the world did you take EVERY save boosting feat available? buy a cloak +5 and spend those feats on something useful.
Had to go back and re-read my copy of Halflings of Golarion. Now I remember why I ranked it so low on the witch guide. This is frighteningly Feat intensive and really is overkill. By the time you've stacked all these penalties up you probably could have grabbed your familiar and beat the creature to death with it. :P
Don't forget that thanks to Sluggish Jinx, the -3 will ALSO hit the target's Initiative and attack rolls. :D
Kinda clunky, but I think I'll try this build out. Thanks all :)
...thinking about it, I should probably take Accursed Hex earlier, as that gives me a crucial second chance to put the Evil Eye on the target.
If the initial blast hits, the foe's Will is broken and he becomes our party's b~&$*. If it misses and he gains a day's immunity to the Eye and the jinx... well, there'll be other options.
I have a witch in a Carrion Crown campaign. I'm going to give a bit of common sense advice that... MIGHT seem a bit spoilerish, but really it isn't. Regardless in spoilers it goes.
Evil Eye cannot target undead. Strongly consider this when planning your hex progression. :)
(I took Evil Eye for my first hex, Cackle with the Extra Hex feat. I greatly regret it. I have reason to believe it will not hurt me in the long run, but for now, it sits on my sheet, worthless)
I have a witch in a Carrion Crown campaign. I'm going to give a bit of common sense advice that... MIGHT seem a bit spoilerish, but really it isn't. Regardless in spoilers it goes.
** spoiler omitted **
...ooo. Good point. ^.^
...ah, but the jinx itself is NOT a mind-affecting effect, and the jinx feats will still affect that when I'm not using it with the Eye, so there we go.
If the initial blast hits, the foe's Will is broken and he becomes our party's b$%%!. If it misses and he gains a day's immunity to the Eye and the jinx... well, there'll be other options.
Evil Eye can be used over and over, no immunity if they make the save. Malicious Eye states that when they fail their save against the Evil Eye you add the effect of the jinx to the Evil Eye effect. You're not actually using your jinx. You're free to jinx them if you so choose, even if they save vs. the Evil Eye.
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You seem quite keen on keeping the jinx then ;-)
However I do not understand why you take Sluggish Jinx so early
From my understanding, the jinx penalty which is used by Sluggish Jinx is -1 until you get the Bolster Jinx feat to activate its "If you have more than one of these feats, the additional penalties apply to all of the corresponding saves." part on all saves, at which point the jinx penalty becomes -3.
I thought that it meant you had to get all 3 saves-boosting feats before the jinx penalty increased to -3. My GM was more lenient and read it as meaning that having only 2 of the feats is enough. I was quite happy with his ruling as it frees one feat (bye-bye Lightning Reflexes) and gives the -3 penalty earlier.
However, I am quite certain that having only 1 of the feats is not enough. Thus I believe that you should take Sluggish Jinx only after bringing your jinx penalty to -3.
It is really important to check with your GM on this and any other question you have about the jinx feats.
If you want to go all the way on the jinx ability, you may want to consider the Jinxed Spell feat. It will allow you to bypass the 2 greatests hurdles of the jinx ability (and of the Malicious Eye) which are close range and Will save, since your jinx will use your spell's range and save. And that for a measly +1 spell level.
Going this way is even more feat intensive as you will need to get 2 other metamagic feats before (for example Heighten Spell and Quicken Spell), but it will allow you to target the big bad enemy caster at long range and have it make a Reflex or Fortitude save (which it will likely fail) and suffer all the effects of your jinx. If you go this way, I cannot praise enough the Eastern Mysteries trait (from faction Qadira).
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If the initial blast hits, the foe's Will is broken and he becomes our party's b$%%!. If it misses and he gains a day's immunity to the Eye and the jinx... well, there'll be other options.Evil Eye can be used over and over, no immunity if they make the save. Malicious Eye states that when they fail their save against the Evil Eye you add the effect of the jinx to the Evil Eye effect. You're not actually using your jinx. You're free to jinx them if you so choose, even if they save vs. the Evil Eye.
That is quite right, though using the jinx ability itself is IMO inferior to just Evil Eyeing them again. The routine goes like this :
Round 1 :
- Evil Eye -2 to saves as a standard action, opponent makes it save (and thus suffers from -2 to saves for 1 round, but not from the -1 to saves due to the jinx)
- Cackle as a move action to extend the duration of Evil Eye for 1 round, ie so that your opponent still has the -2 to saves when you act on Round 2
Round 2 :
- Evil Eye -2 to saves as a standard action, opponent fails its save and suffers -3 to saves for 3+INT rounds
Of course, if the opponent succeeds on his second save, you cackle and try again. He WILL fail his save and sooner than later. That is when you will heap the Misfortune and the other Evil Eye effects on him.
Be aware that since you might need to cackle for a long time (to sustain the Evil Eye first and the Misfortune later on), a mount would be a very good thing to get. A flying mount even better.
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Why use the Evil Eye to reduce saves again? The Jinx works with any Evil Eye effect, so why not hit him with the other effects?
Since the opponent made his first save against Evil Eye, the -2 to saves from this hex only lasts as long as the witch cackles. Once the opponent has failed his save against Evil Eye, the -3 to saves (-2 from Evil Eye and -1 from the jinx) lasts for at least 3 rounds with no need for further cackling. So your opponent will have -3 to his Will saves againts further applications of Evil Eye targetting his AC, to hit or other hexes such as Misfortune.
While if you hit him directly (and successfully) with an second Evil Eye reducing for example AC but not saves, he will have only -1 on his Will saves (from the jinx) against further applications of Evil Eye, Misfortune ...
Of course, sometimes it can be better to hamper quickly one of his abilities (say AC) at the cost of a reduced chance of affecting his other rolls. In other words, the routine I described above has to be changed if the vagaries of battle mandate it.
And for Bolster Jinx
A jinxed target’s penalty on Fortitude, Reflex, or Will saves increases by 2 if you have the Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, or Iron Will feat, respectively. If you have more than one of these feats, the additional penalties apply to all of the corresponding saves.I read that as a -3 penalty on whatever saves you have the corresponding feats for.
In the given build, he has Iron Will when he takes Bolster Jinx, so the Will save penalty goes to -3, while the other 2 remain at -1.You don't need 2 or 3 of the feats, but if you do have them it works with all of them.
That is quite right concerning Bolster Jinx, but the problem is how it interacts with Sluggish Jinx which states that "Your jinx’s penalty on saving throws also applies to the target’s initiative and attack rolls." In other words, when is "your jinx's penalty" -1 and when is it -3 if you take Bolster Jinx and the saves-boosting feats ?
This is expecially relevant as IIRC there is no other way to increase your jinx's penalty.
To Evil Midnight Lurker : I still do not see the Worst Case Jinx feat in your build. Is it not good ? I am quite interested about your opinion on this matter as both me and my GM think it is the best of the jinx feats but we haven't tried it in play yet.