So I was building a sorcerer and decided to make one with the stormborn bloodline. I was thinking to myself, you know, electricity isn't anything like fire, which has a reputation for practically every monster and its cousin being resistant or immune to it. But looking through the Pathfinder Bestiary, boy was I ever wrong about that!
Here's a list of all of the monster types in the Pathfinder Bestiary that are flat-out immune to electricity: Archons (all types), Assassin Vine, Azatas (all types), Behir, Demons (all types), Blue Dragon, Bronze Dragon, Froghemoth, Gelatinous Cube, Genie (Shaitan), Giant (Storm), Golems (all types), Lich, Ochre Jelly, Roper, Shambling Mound, Shocker Lizard, Vegepygmy and Will-o-wisp.
As for which creatures are merely resistant to electricity, rather than totally immune, the list is much shorter: Aasimar, Angels (all types), Electric eel, Half-Celestial, Half-Fiend, Intellect Devourer, Shoggoth, Tiefling, Vampire and Xorn.
As I'm reading the "immune electricity" on most of these monsters, I'm thinking to myself "WHY?" Okay, I get why a shocker lizard or blue dragon is immune to electricity, but ALL demons, Archons and Azatas? The hell? The one that really stumped me was the shambling mound. It's a freaking walking clump of wood and vegetable matter, and it's immune to lightning? Bwuh? The electricity immunity on half of these monsters makes no sense to me.
It seems to me that most of these monsters are immune to electricity "just because." Maybe they just thought it would be too much fun to actually play a sorcerer that can, you know, actually hurt things with his spells *cough* sarcasm *cough.* I can see certain creatures being resistant to the various elements, even the occasional immunity, for the sake of adding a strategic element to the game, but this is ridiculous!
|
IIRC when I had a look at the various immunities to elements, Acid was the less common.
Otherwise, Sonic is a nice damage type : few immunities and less protected against than Force.
Finally, the option I would prefer is that of the opposed elements caster. Ever since the Rolemaster book about elements, I have this splendid vision of a caster attacking with a dual entwined ray of cold and fire.
It may even be doable in PFRPG now that the APG and UM hav added so many possibilities to the magic system.
Thus, if you face a creature who is immune to one type of Energy, there is a good chance that it is not immune to its opposed type and it may even be more vulnerable to it.
You've just hit the reason why spell blasting blows at higher levels: immunities/resistances. Fire and cold damage shares the same problem.
Which is why the spell Dragon's Breath is so awesome. =)
In any case, the key to successful blasting (or spellcasting for that matter) is to have a variety of spells for different situations. There's nothing stopping a stormborn sorcerer from learning fireball, cone of cold or acid arrow.
In fact, the more your reputation as a lightning specialist grows, the more you want to make sure you have other spells because anyone who's specifically out to attack you WILL have lightning immunity or high resistance.
You've just hit the reason why spell blasting blows at higher levels: immunities/resistances. Fire and cold damage shares the same problem.Which is why the spell Dragon's Breath is so awesome. =)
In any case, the key to successful blasting (or spellcasting for that matter) is to have a variety of spells for different situations. There's nothing stopping a stormborn sorcerer from learning fireball, cone of cold or acid arrow.
In fact, the more your reputation as a lightning specialist grows, the more you want to make sure you have other spells because anyone who's specifically out to attack you WILL have lightning immunity or high resistance.
I think cold spells will still fit well with a stormborn thematically as do sonic spells. In my view lightning, fire and cold are fairly 'equal value' energy types, lightning resistance and immunity being a bit less common, but offset by creatures being vulnerable to fire and cold more often, with a little window dressing and a willing GM you might expand available spells for specific elements considerably.
I would like to see a redo of the energy system anyway, lightning is too similar to fire in damage though not necesarily effect, acid's relationship with earth magic does not quite do it for me, cold and fire subtypes giving automatic vulnerability seems not always feel appropriate, negative and positive energy exist in the twilight between good and evil, force well it seems like it could be bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage.
I think cold spells will still fit well with a stormborn thematically as do sonic spells. In my view lightning, fire and cold are fairly 'equal value' energy types, lightning resistance and immunity being a bit less common, but offset by creatures being vulnerable to fire and cold more often, with a little window dressing and a willing GM you might expand available spells for specific elements considerably.
I didn't notice a single monster that is vulnerable to elecrticity, sadly. A couple golems are slowed by it, but they also don't take any damage, which is a very poor tradeoff.
As I'm reading the "immune electricity" on most of these monsters, I'm thinking to myself "WHY?" Okay, I get why a shocker lizard or blue dragon is immune to electricity, but ALL demons, Archons and Azatas? The hell? The one that really stumped me was the shambling mound. It's a freaking walking clump of wood and vegetable matter, and it's immune to lightning? Bwuh? The electricity immunity on half of these monsters makes no sense to me.
dude, once you read most middle to high level stat blocks, you start findind all kinds of s$#$ that don't make sense. the silver dragon and the djinn are immune to acid... it makes even less sense than the lightning ones from a flavor point of view.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think cold spells will still fit well with a stormborn thematically as do sonic spells. In my view lightning, fire and cold are fairly 'equal value' energy types, lightning resistance and immunity being a bit less common, but offset by creatures being vulnerable to fire and cold more often, with a little window dressing and a willing GM you might expand available spells for specific elements considerably.I didn't notice a single monster that is vulnerable to elecrticity, sadly. A couple golems are slowed by it, but they also don't take any damage, which is a very poor tradeoff.
You can one-shot a Gyarados though.
You can one-shot a Gyarados though.I think cold spells will still fit well with a stormborn thematically as do sonic spells. In my view lightning, fire and cold are fairly 'equal value' energy types, lightning resistance and immunity being a bit less common, but offset by creatures being vulnerable to fire and cold more often, with a little window dressing and a willing GM you might expand available spells for specific elements considerably.I didn't notice a single monster that is vulnerable to elecrticity, sadly. A couple golems are slowed by it, but they also don't take any damage, which is a very poor tradeoff.
Not Blastoise though. He's weak against grass, and there are very few grass attack spells in the game...
If I recall correctly, the shambling mound has been not only immune to electricity since at least AD&D, but it's been one of the (thankfully few) creatures that absorbs electrical damage. In AD&D it would grow 1 foot and 1 HD when struck with electrical attacks.
|
|
If I recall correctly, the shambling mound has been not only immune to electricity since at least AD&D, but it's been one of the (thankfully few) creatures that absorbs electrical damage. In AD&D it would grow 1 foot and 1 HD when struck with electrical attacks.
I blame it on the Swamp Thing / Man-Thing archetype and its reminiscences of the Frankenstein story
The one that really stumped me was the shambling mound. It's a freaking walking clump of wood and vegetable matter, and it's immune to lightning? Bwuh? The electricity immunity on half of these monsters makes no sense to me.
Yep, some of these are carry-overs from classic D&D. The shambling mound is a prime example. It has had this immunity from it's first days, and with the shambler it even gets stronger from lightning. I know it's been this way since at least the mid-80's, and I believe the original from the 70's was the same. I also recall a creation story from these olden days that involved magical, lightning, and plant matter but I don't remember if that was a fan material item or from a "core" source.
You can one-shot a Gyarados though.Not Blastoise though. He's weak against grass, and there are very few grass attack spells in the game...
Which is why you gotta keep a Tentacruel around. Grass does no good against Poison.
Here's a list of all of the monster types in the Pathfinder Bestiary that are flat-out immune to electricity: Archons (all types), Assassin Vine, Azatas (all types), Behir, Demons (all types), Blue Dragon, Bronze Dragon, Froghemoth, Gelatinous Cube, Genie (Shaitan), Giant (Storm), Golems (all types), Lich, Ochre Jelly, Roper, Shambling Mound, Shocker Lizard, Vegepygmy and Will-o-wisp.
As for which creatures are merely resistant to electricity, rather than totally immune, the list is much shorter: Aasimar, Angels (all types), Electric eel, Half-Celestial, Half-Fiend, Intellect Devourer, Shoggoth, Tiefling, Vampire and Xorn.
Now list all the monsters that aren't these things.
That's a lot of monsters.
Take note that a large number of the creatures you list are outsiders (commonly resistant to multiple energy types), oozes (commonly resistant to multiple energy types), plants (commonly resistant to multiple energy types), some undead (commonly resistant to multiple energy types), and golems (resistant to almost EVERYTHING, and electricity is actually MORE effective than other energy types because it slows them. Do not underestimate the power to keep a golem from chasing you). Generally with these creature types, when you're thinking about what to hurt them with, you shouldn't be reaching for your energy damage spells anyway, electricity or otherwise. These creatures are the very reason you hold onto buffs and battle control spells (and the occasional bit of force damage).
The rest of the creatures that are immune or resistant are specifically electricity-themed creatures where it would make no sense for them to be harmed by the power the generate, or they'd destroy themselves.
Also, some of the resistant creatures you list only have a resistance of 5 or so, meaning if you're an electricity damage specialist, you can still hurt and even kill them with electricity pretty easily.
I really don't think it's as bad as you paint it out to be.
Of the creatures you CAN hurt---just about every humanoid, and energy damage spells are great and blasting out groups. And you're likely to more frequently run into humanoids than other creatures. Animals, vermin, swarms, magical beasts, dragons that aren't electricity themed, aberrations that aren't electricity themed, elementals...
You'll be fine. As the others say, just be sure you have a well-rounded spell list, so you have a contingency plan when that blue dragon does show up. Your bloodline will give you a number of the cool electricity spells anyway, so you have room for a few sonic and force attacks and all the buffs you need.
What bugs me is that every outsider is resistant (or immune) to almost every energy type (with a few exceptions). What's the point of that?
What bugs me is that every outsider is resistant (or immune) to almost every energy type (with a few exceptions). What's the point of that?
Thematically, I always thought that it was that, being creatures from the Outer Planes, they are largely unaffected by the elements of the Inner Planes and their more mundane manifestations on the prime material.
Mechanically... you'd probably have to ask the designers of the first monstrous manual or whatever.
For whatever reason, demons are associated with fire and acid (acid can be seen as "corrupting" matter, leaves nasty scars, has ties to earth subtypes and demons are often seen as being part of an "underworld")
So I always figured angels were given cold and electric resistances as a sort of equal-but-opposite approach that made sense in that they are usually tied to a heaven or "overworld". Going high up leads to decreased temperature and sometimes increased electrical activity (ionosphere?)
And you can see evidence of this in the plane system, ie: upper planes (celestia) and lower planes (abyss).
So the outsider resistances make sense if you look at them from a certain point of view.
Kuma and ShadowcatX's answers are way better than mine.
What's truly vexing is that there is no way (in pathfinder) of bypassing all of those resistances/immunities other than picking a different energy type; while prepared casters such as wizards won't have too much of a problem with that, sorcerer's and their ilk get the shaft, as usual.
It's a shocking theroy, I know...
Am I the only one laughing at this?
|
Every build has a hole in it. Single element casters are a fun idea, but have something in the back pocket when you come up with those that are immune to your primary element. IMO, I think Fire casters have the hardest time since fire immunity/resistance is quite common. Or, maybe becuase I had an annoying GM that would even put fire resistance on things like high level mummies.
That said, avoid one-trick pony builds. Even if you don't want other elements in your spell list, haste and dispell magic are never a bad choice. Throw in some other buffs or things like sleet storm and you should be good to go and still stay within your theme.
Um there are so many to keep the game well grounded?
It's a shocking theroy, I know...
I don't understand this current trend with puns. I'd have thought people had a greater resistance to it.
|
Ohmigoodness, I find this line of puns revolting!I don't understand this current trend with puns. I'd have thought people had a greater resistance to it.Um there are so many to keep the game well grounded?
It's a shocking theroy, I know...
They are currently pretty bad and increasing in frequency.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
They are currently pretty bad and increasing in frequency.Ohmigoodness, I find this line of puns revolting!I don't understand this current trend with puns. I'd have thought people had a greater resistance to it.Um there are so many to keep the game well grounded?
It's a shocking theroy, I know...
True, but Watt's the point?
During my travels, I've found that wielding the wild electric energy is a great boon. I've faced many foes, and quite a few that were immune to my most devastating attacks.
What I did to face them, at that time, was to use what else I had in my arsenal. My other tricks, though few, were quite potent in their own right. Plus, my allies were quick to pick up any slack and re-positioning that was necessary to continue the fight. I would continue my assault on foes in the battle that were more vulnerable to Thunder and Lightning, my most prized whips.
In the end, though many more foes were immune to my electric vengeance than any effect of my allies, I was quite the formidable warrior. Against any foe not immune, well, their fate was surely sealed with lightning speed.
So I was building a sorcerer and decided to make one with the stormborn bloodline. I was thinking to myself, you know, electricity isn't anything like fire, which has a reputation for practically every monster and its cousin being resistant or immune to it. But looking through the Pathfinder Bestiary, boy was I ever wrong about that!
Here's a list of all of the monster types in the Pathfinder Bestiary that are flat-out immune to electricity: Archons (all types), Assassin Vine, Azatas (all types), Behir, Demons (all types), Blue Dragon, Bronze Dragon, Froghemoth, Gelatinous Cube, Genie (Shaitan), Giant (Storm), Golems (all types), Lich, Ochre Jelly, Roper, Shambling Mound, Shocker Lizard, Vegepygmy and Will-o-wisp.
As for which creatures are merely resistant to electricity, rather than totally immune, the list is much shorter: Aasimar, Angels (all types), Electric eel, Half-Celestial, Half-Fiend, Intellect Devourer, Shoggoth, Tiefling, Vampire and Xorn.
As long as you stick to the 'big 4' energy types (fire, cold, acid, and electricity), you're going to find lots of monsters that are immune or highly resistant, especially among the outsider races, which typically have one or two immunities, plus a handful of resistences.
|
|
Of the "big four" energy types, acid is easily the best general purpose choice. And if you can get force or sonic, they're better than any of the "big four".
It's kinda funny that the most iconic choice is fire, since it's the one most monsters have immunity or resistance to. Then again, most campaigns probably will see a lot more trolls than devils. Although that just goes back to showing how acid is superior.
At times I wish Acid could be removed from 'energy' and put in just conjurations. Just don't know how 'thematic' it would be for Sonic to replace it in the 'big four'.
The whole "energy" thing has bugged me since 3E game out. With the exception of electricity, none of them are actually energy. It would have been better as a whole if they had just used the classical elements for damage types.
The whole "energy" thing has bugged me since 3E game out. With the exception of electricity, none of them are actually energy. It would have been better as a whole if they had just used the classical elements for damage types.
I tend to agree, although some of us grew up with five "classical elements". =3
stuff about how things is immune to electricity and junk
Take the feat elemental spell (Acid). Problem solved.
True, but Watt's the point?They are currently pretty bad and increasing in frequency.Ohmigoodness, I find this line of puns revolting!I don't understand this current trend with puns. I'd have thought people had a greater resistance to it.Um there are so many to keep the game well grounded?
It's a shocking theroy, I know...
Inane comments like these are hardly conductive to a serious discussion. I must charge you to stop it. We must insulate ourselves from these puns.
Re: Puns
Resistance is futile.
Have I ever said that I love this forum? Well, I love this forum. =D
What bugs me is that every outsider is resistant (or immune) to almost every energy type (with a few exceptions). What's the point of that?
I have to agree with what was already said, but I think the primary reasons are simply the planar landscapes themselves. Burning and frozen hells would be uninhabitable by the very devils they should be teeming with, Abbyss would dissolve it's own creations before the'd ruin anything and Angels? How would they do battle gainst their foes without being able to survive their home themselves? With the ideas of raging planar wars the outsiders are made so that they can move about in the hostile environs ov outer and inner planes and astral, where they are to protect the travelling souls or hunt for them.
This is actually one of the reasons I like the Elemental Sorcerer bloodline, you play as say a fire sorcerer and then don't learn a single spell that normally deals fire damage, you can use your arcana ability whenever it doesn't hurt you to do your preferred type, and let them do whatever they normally would if that is better.
A lot of creatures the OP mentions go back to 1e (AD&D). The immunities were largely the result of spells like lightning bolt and fireball not having a damage cap. The original chain lighnting was even worse. It would lose 1 die of damage each time it jumped to a new target and you could chain the spell through the same target multiple times, so you could bounce a chain lightning between to targets. Additionally lightning bolts (regular and chain) would bounce off walls too, allowing a caster to ricochett them through targets or around corners.
Additionally lightning bolts (regular and chain) would bounce off walls too, allowing a caster to ricochett them through targets or around corners.
I really miss the bouncing lightning. Ricochet shots around corners were so COOL.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Inane comments like these are hardly conductive to a serious discussion. I must charge you to stop it. We must insulate ourselves from these puns.
Whoa, KaeYoss, there's no reason to get all amped up about this and blow a fuse. These kinds of comments are bound to pop up in the gamers' forum circuit from time to time. That's just the current state of affairs.
You used Lightning Bolt on Pikachu. It's not very effective.
You guys know puns are only effective in parallel, right? So, why are you presenting them in series? People are resisting them. You need to generate them together, put a good spin on them, and attract more people here.
==Aelryinth
Going through the AP's, a fire or cold specialist will do very well. Except for the demons and daemons in two specific areas, there was nothing in Serpent's Skull that was particularly resistant to fire, and the BBEG at the end wasn't immune, either.
Fire and Cold have the distinction of having foes who take EXTRA damage from it. That's quite useful. Can you imagine Legacy of Fire without access to cold spells?
That all being said, one of the great attractions of the Force Missile Mage from 3.5 was that one of the class abilities was being able to make your magic missiles turn to any element for damage. So, if something did have the fire/cold subtype, or a weird vulnerability to lighting (Golems and froghemoths, I'm looking at you), you could take advantage of it.
Monte Cook basically did away with particular elements for spells...you could add in what you wanted on the fly.
There's also particular feats for Searing Fire and Piercing Cold, that do half damage automatically even if something is immune to fire/cold, from 3.5, to address just this problem. A staple of Scorching Ray builds.
==Aelryinth
|
Contributor
|
Going through the AP's, a fire or cold specialist will do very well. Except for the demons and daemons in two specific areas, there was nothing in Serpent's Skull that was particularly resistant to fire, and the BBEG at the end wasn't immune, either.
Fire and Cold have the distinction of having foes who take EXTRA damage from it. That's quite useful. Can you imagine Legacy of Fire without access to cold spells?