I have a player who wants to run small orc melee-type in a game. I had never considered this before as an option. He's not a power gamer but usually suprises me with some of the creative concepts he comes up with. Is this permissable in the PFS system?
Thanks
Matt
Director of Brand Strategy
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He could create a half-orc melee type and use potions or scrolls of reduce person to decrease his size temporarily, but the permanency spell is not permitted in Pathfinder Society Organized Play, nor are custom races. For a complete list of what character options are available to players in the campaign, see the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
Excellent, thank you for the feedback.
The runt might not even realize he's a gnome.Love it! Maybe he's a rare gnome with black hair, and really bad teeth...
Basic Traits (Social)
Adopted
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents’ race.
Tusked (Half-Orc, Orc) (Racial Trait)Huge, sharp tusks bulge from your mouth, and you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5.
Tusked is legal for PFS play. Adopted is legal for PFS play.
Yep, Gnome. With Tusks. Woot!
"Mom always told me I was adopted - well, stolen from a gnome tribe.
She said that I was taken in a raid that left my real parents dead.
She took me to a gnome settlement to live with some man. She worked
as a maid, but she always looked at him kind of funny. And she would
stay in the house with him late into the night sometimes. I think
they were doing a lot more than "grooming the carpet" as she would
call it. Sometimes she said that she was up late "polishing his
broomstick", but that just sounded off. I think mom had a thing for
gnomish men. And surprisingly, Mr Miller seemed to treat her nicer than
just a maid.Mom made me live up to being gnomish, studying hard, acting "civilized",
"gettin me some book learnin'" as she would say. I started
wondering about her story when my baby teeth came out, and my tusks
started coming in. I learned fine grooming and my outgoing
personality pretty much put people at ease with me even though I
looked distinctly orc-like."
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The runt might not even realize he's a gnome.Love it! Maybe he's a rare gnome with black hair, and really bad teeth...
Basic Traits (Social)
Adopted
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents’ race.
Tusked (Half-Orc, Orc) (Racial Trait)Huge, sharp tusks bulge from your mouth, and you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5.
Tusked is legal for PFS play. Adopted is legal for PFS play.
Yep, Gnome. With Tusks. Woot!
"Mom always told me I was adopted - well, stolen from a gnome tribe.
She said that I was taken in a raid that left my real parents dead.
She took me to a gnome settlement to live with some man. She worked
as a maid, but she always looked at him kind of funny. And she would
stay in the house with him late into the night sometimes. I think
they were doing a lot more than "grooming the carpet" as she would
call it. Sometimes she said that she was up late "polishing his
broomstick", but that just sounded off. I think mom had a thing for
gnomish men. And surprisingly, Mr Miller seemed to treat her nicer than
just a maid.Mom made me live up to being gnomish, studying hard, acting "civilized",
"gettin me some book learnin'" as she would say. I started
wondering about her story when my baby teeth came out, and my tusks
started coming in. I learned fine grooming and my outgoing
personality pretty much put people at ease with me even though I
looked distinctly orc-like."
Ok, I need a bit of clarification here.
Does Adopted allow you to take a Trait from the Racial Traits, such as the Racial category of Traits.
Or does Adopted let you take a Racial Trait from the race's description of what it is?
I believe Tusked is from the Orc alternate Racial Traits that you swap out for the Ferocious.
But I do not believe Tusked is a Racial category Trait, so would not be able to be gained by Adopted social Trait.
Ok, I need a bit of clarification here.
Does Adopted allow you to...
You are thinking of "Toothy".
Adopted allows you to take a Trait from the Traits (Racial) section.
Tusked is a Traits (Racial) from Orcs of Golarion (sorry, no link).(sorry, no link)
Toothy is a Alternate Racial Trait
Razortusk is a Feat that gives the same ability.
A Half-Orc can gain the bite attack in any of these ways. They do not stack.
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Ok, I need a bit of clarification here.
Does Adopted allow you to...
You are thinking of "Toothy".
Adopted allows you to take a Trait from the Traits (Racial) section.
Tusked is a Traits (Racial)
Toothy is a Alternate Racial Trait from Orcs of Golarion (sorry, no link).
Razortusk is a Feat that gives the same ability.
A Half-Orc can gain the bite attack in any of these ways. They do not stack.
Ah yes, ok, thanks!
Ok, I need a bit of clarification here.
Does Adopted allow you to...
I personally wouldn't allow it. Just like I wouldn't allow that same gnome to be adopted by a Shoanti family and take Bred for War. An adoptee might pick up practices, habits, and social traits, but they're not going to be genetically altered.
You can be raised by wolves and learn to survive as a result, but you aren't going to pick up wolf fangs.
Well, it's not up to you to allow or disallow. You don't get to make that call. PFS Guide, Additional Resources and the FAQ are the only things that matter. Both are legal traits, and Adopted type lets you pick up a free Racial Trait, which Tusked is.
Whether or not you like it is immaterial to PFS play.
If Paizo doesn't like it, they can simply FAQ it out of existence. But really - do you think it's going to break anyone's game to allow? That's all that really matters for PFS play.
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Ok, I need a bit of clarification here.
Does Adopted allow you to...
I personally wouldn't allow it. Just like I wouldn't allow that same gnome to be adopted by a Shoanti family and take Bred for War. An adoptee might pick up practices, habits, and social traits, but they're not going to be genetically altered.
You can be raised by wolves and learn to survive as a result, but you aren't going to pick up wolf fangs.
Well, it's not up to you to allow or disallow. You don't get to make that call. PFS Guide, Additional Resources and the FAQ are the only things that matter. Both are legal traits, and Adopted type lets you pick up a free Racial Trait, which Tusked is.
Whether or not you like it is immaterial to PFS play.
If Paizo doesn't like it, they can simply FAQ it out of existence. But really - do you think it's going to break anyone's game to allow? That's all that really matters for PFS play.
And while my next example would not work in every circumstance…
Who’s to say that a highly magical creature originally from the highly mutable and primeval First World (gnome) would not be physically transformed if raised by the preternaturally primitive Orcs with nearly magical rage in their blood?
Ok, I need a bit of clarification here.
Does Adopted allow you to...
I personally wouldn't allow it. Just like I wouldn't allow that same gnome to be adopted by a Shoanti family and take Bred for War. An adoptee might pick up practices, habits, and social traits, but they're not going to be genetically altered.
You can be raised by wolves and learn to survive as a result, but you aren't going to pick up wolf fangs.
Well, it's not up to you to allow or disallow. You don't get to make that call. PFS Guide, Additional Resources and the FAQ are the only things that matter. Both are legal traits, and Adopted type lets you pick up a free Racial Trait, which Tusked is.
Whether or not you like it is immaterial to PFS play.
If Paizo doesn't like it, they can simply FAQ it out of existence. But really - do you think it's going to break anyone's game to allow? That's all that really matters for PFS play.
And while my next example would not work in every circumstance…
Who’s to say that a highly magical creature originally from the highly mutable and primeval First World (gnome) would not be physically transformed if raised by the preternaturally primitive Orcs with nearly magical rage in their blood?
I like that kind of thinking.
The rules allow it.
Find a backstory (or any story) that accounts for it.
There's a reason it's called Fantasy.
Hey, in Forgotten Realms, the gnomes all went from being blue-eyed to black-eyed in less than a generation. While I personally think "body snatchers", anything is possible.
You could even go with "prosthetics, adopted to better fit in with the other orc children" (Gnomes like to tinker with things.)
How about "Local shaman gave me a potion, and they started growing."?
How about the Worfian "These things are not discussed!!!" (regarding the mysterious change in Klingon body types from TOS to DS9) ?
Here’s a good question.
If I take Trait (social): Adoptive in order to take Trait (racial): Half-Orc Tusked
I’d imagine that would mean I could not take another Trait (racial) huh?
That would be my reading of:
When selecting traits, you may not select more than one from the same list of traits (the four basic traits each count as a separate list for this purpose).
You've selected Adopted.
Adopted: You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents' race.
Since you've "SELECTED" a race trait, you may not select another one for your other trait.
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I personally wouldn't allow it. Just like I wouldn't allow that same gnome to be adopted by a Shoanti family and take Bred for War. An adoptee might pick up practices, habits, and social traits, but they're not going to be genetically altered.
You can be raised by wolves and learn to survive as a result, but you aren't going to pick up wolf fangs.
Even though I'm the official stick-in-the-mud Venture-Captain, I'm going to agree with Fozzy here.
It is pretty clearly in the scope of the rules (provided the Adopted is used properly (ex Tusked, not Toothy)), and while a little weird, it's not unbalancing or something likely to become incredibly widespread due to its optimization potential.I might ask the player to give a role-playing reason to explain it, though that would fall outside the PFS requirements. I'd accept the one above, but I'd bet creative players could come up with many more.
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I personally wouldn't allow it. Just like I wouldn't allow that same gnome to be adopted by a Shoanti family and take Bred for War. An adoptee might pick up practices, habits, and social traits, but they're not going to be genetically altered.
You can be raised by wolves and learn to survive as a result, but you aren't going to pick up wolf fangs.
Even though I'm the official stick-in-the-mud Venture-Captain, I'm going to agree with Fozzy here.
It is pretty clearly in the scope of the rules (provided the Adopted is used properly (ex Tusked, not Toothy)), and while a little weird, it's not unbalancing or something likely to become incredibly widespread due to its optimization potential.
I might ask the player to give a role-playing reason to explain it, though that would fall outside the PFS requirements. I'd accept the one above, but I'd bet creative players could come up with many more.
+1
Even though I'm the official stick-in-the-mud Venture-Captain, I'm going to agree with Fozzy here.
It is pretty clearly in the scope of the rules (provided the Adopted is used properly (ex Tusked, not Toothy)), and while a little weird, it's not unbalancing or something likely to become incredibly widespread due to its optimization potential.
I might ask the player to give a role-playing reason to explain it, though that would fall outside the PFS requirements. I'd accept the one above, but I'd bet creative players could come up with many more.Extending this logic means an elf adopted by a tribe of Shoanti can take Bred for War (as long as said elf is over six feet tall) and a dwarf adopted by Azlanti parents can take Azlanti Inheritor.
By RAW, I agree that one can take any racial trait. It just seems very wrong to include physical characteristics passed down by blood, when the trait represent learning from one's adopted family.
Yes, a character with the Adopted trait can take either of these traits (with the provision of Bred For War that he be at least 6 feet tall).
If you do not like the fact that these traits are legal, then you should argue for a change in the rules, rather than simply ignoring the rule.
From a roleplaying perspective, while the text of the traits states that they are passed down by blood, one could always include a backstory detailing a blood-ceremony where the adopted child is made a member of the clan/race though a religious/cultural/magical ceremony that forever binds them to that group.
"By each cutting your hands, and binding them together, you give your child the blood of your blood. The blood of your fathers. And grandfathers. Forever hence, this child shall be ours, and we shall be his. None - not even the gods may speak otherwise."