Temple of Elemental Evil or Neverwinter Nights?


Video Games


Yes, yes, I realize that it's a PC game from nearly a decade ago. I like old games. And besides, I just found it in a thrift store for $0.50.

My question is, should I install it and play it right now, or should I actually play through Neverwinter Nights first? Because at the time of their release, I was busy playing console games and not considering fixing my busted PC.

So sell me on one of them...or I may just go back to playing Titan Quest.

Scarab Sages

Depends. If you look for a more or less engaging story or interaction with npcs, play NWN. The downsides are the modular maps, the bad AI of the opponents and the overall rather bland combats.

ToEE has a better implementation of the 3.0 Rules, has more beautiful maps, engaging tactical combats - but scratches story and interaction as soon as you leave homlet behind.

Both are nice games.

Whatever you do, don't try the 3.0 Pool of Radiance.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
feytharn wrote:
Whatever you do, don't try the 3.0 Pool of Radiance.

A +1 cannot cover the truth of that statement.

I really enjoyed Temple of Elemental Evil. It felt like I was playing a true D&D game. It's also not a huge game, and while the story outside of Homlet isn't fantastic, it's at least a fun, true-to-rules D&D game. I highly recommend it.

NWN on the other hand is less truthful to the rules, but it's a better storytelling mechanism. Frankly, the sheer amount of time I put into NWN and NWN2 is scary.

You can't really go wrong with either.


feytharn wrote:
Whatever you do, don't try the 3.0 Pool of Radiance.

Sadly I have already learned this lesson the hard way. I got it for free, and I still felt ripped off. My girlfriend also fell victim to the Pool of Radiance debacle...sad day.

I have spent a little time with NWN, and while I did enjoy the NPC interaction, I don't think I want to go through that first chapter again just yet. So I'll give Temple of Elemental Evil a shot. Thanks guys!


Ignore the original NWN campaign and play some of the user-created modules. Some are much better.

Most of them probably require the NWN expansions though.


Neverwinter Nights. The built-in campaign was very enjoyable, but the ability to play (and make) user-created content is wonderful.


Great idea, thanks.

Hey, I'm wondering, how do you guys feel that Neverwinter Nights and Temple of Elemental Evil stack up against the likes of Icewind Dale and Plainscape: Torment? I've never gotten the opportunity to play either, as most of my PC RPG time has been spent between Baldur's Gate, the Elder Scrolls series, and more action-oriented RPGs like Dungeon Siege or Titan Quest. But I've heard that both Icewind Dale and Plainscape: Torment are incredible and well worth tracking down. Do the PC RPG aficionados here agree with these statements?


Ackattack wrote:
But I've heard that both Icewind Dale and Plainscape: Torment are incredible and well worth tracking down. Do the PC RPG aficionados here agree with these statements?

Yes, both well worth it. I still occasionally play through Torment, and I'll probably be picking up Icewind Dale I & II from GOG to play through again. For me, Torment had the most immersive world and engaging storyline of all the D&D games of that era.

I would greatly advise going online and downloading both official and unoffical patches for ToEE. That was the buggiest RPG game I've ever bought. Having a game released with a bug that basically makes your hired NPCs useless because they collect equipment until they can't move anymore? Shameful.

Liberty's Edge

While playing TOEE, I learned a lot about the 3.5 ruleset. Most notably how handy bards are.

It isn't too strong on replayability for me - usually you play through once, then play through again with a party more prepped for the challenges. Then you set up an item crafter and see how you can really prep a party by making magic items.

It does have some nasty bugs though - there is one fight with a wizard where if he dies while you are inside his Globe of Invulnerability, none of your potions work again. And it sometimes locks in the Fire Node. Fanmade patches supposedly fix some of these issues.

In any case, I found myself enjoying TOEE more, mostly because I could control a whole party very specifically. And it felt a lot more like playing at a table.

I played Icewind Dale a couple of times through. I enjoyed it.
I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing Torment yet.


I haven't played Temple of Elemental Evil, so I can't say much about it. Many seem to think it was a good game.

Neverwinter Nights is beautiful. However, it's not brilliant. The graphics with the massive focus on lighting really did shine - when it was released. Today? I would guess not so much. The weakness of the game is the very bland storyline structure (fetch 4 plot devices and fight an end boss, on to next chapter) and the uninspired combat. I played a monk and combat meant getting attacked, and then letting the character deal with the enemies on her own without my input. Perhaps a caster class would have been different.

If we're talking about Icewind Dale, you need to know that it's like Baldur's gate without all those pesky NPCs and storyline complications that made Baldur's gate amazing. That said, it's still enjoyable.

Planescape: Torment, though... I don't know where to begin. It's delicious, magnificent, insane. Just the dialogues weigh in at 1.4 million words, IIRC. The characters are well realized and the storyline is mysterious and inspiring. It has its faults, certainly, but playing it is unlike anything else.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

If you do play TOEE I would absolutely download the unofficial patch (was it the circle of five patch?). It fixes a number of significant bugs, firms up the rules, and reintroduces a number of quests that were dropped (Nulb brothel to name one).


The Temple of Elemental Evil unofficial patch was made by Circle of Eight http://www.co8.org


With Beamdog doing all these updates to the old D&D games do we think that we will get a overhalled ToEE? I mean we have BG1, BG2 and all expansions plus a new one, IWD1, IWD2 and expansions and NWN with expansions.

EtG


Eldred the Grey wrote:
With Beamdog doing all these updates to the old D&D games do we think that we will get a overhalled ToEE? I mean we have BG1, BG2 and all expansions plus a new one, IWD1, IWD2 and expansions and NWN with expansions.

It's unlikely. Beamdog is made up of several ex-BioWare and Interplay/Black Isle staffers who worked on BG1 & 2, IWD1 & 2, PS:T and NWN. ToEE was made by a completely different team at a different company. ToEE is also nowhere near as well-known or appreciated, and uses a very different engine.

They might be willing to do it for the very good reason that ToEE uses the same engine as the much-better-received ARCANUM: OF STEAMWORKS AND MAGICK OBSCURA, and a remaster of that would go down very well indeed. However, I suspect that Beamdog's more ideal project would be more new material, like a full BG3, or remastering FALLOUT and FO2, which would be a much bigger job, a more legally complex one (requiring Bethesda to come on board) but ultimately a much more financially sound one.


I can hope though since they could expand upon it, but we will probably see NWN2 and its expansions first. But since BG 1.5 was well received we could see other expansions by them for the other enhanced editions. Particularly NWN since despite other peoples opinions I really liked the first Chapter since they made a nice attempt at fleshing out the city.

EtG

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Ackattack wrote:

Yes, yes, I realize that it's a PC game from nearly a decade ago. I like old games. And besides, I just found it in a thrift store for $0.50.

My question is, should I install it and play it right now, or should I actually play through Neverwinter Nights first? Because at the time of their release, I was busy playing console games and not considering fixing my busted PC.

So sell me on one of them...or I may just go back to playing Titan Quest.

If you're planning on eventually playing both, I would play TOEE first, because it's a single story and you're done, and then I would play NWN, because I am assuming you have the full edition with all of the expansion packs and extra modules, and will provide you many games to play through for a long, long time. Plus I'm pretty sure you can download fan-made modules from the Nexus, as well as make your own if you want to play with the module builder (which I found much harder to use than NWN2's, but popular opinion prefers the tilesets of the original). NWN may also even still have some online servers if you want to play online persistent campaigns, though I'm not sure about this.

More stuff:

TOEE: I'll be honest--I stopped playing this out of boredom and frustration fairly early on (and someone gave it to me for free). I also think I hit many bugs (that I'm pretty sure are fixed by a fan patch at this point if not officially). But many like it as a "truer" application of D&D's 3.0 rules with turnbased play. It is very pretty and I think a fairly faithful rendering of the old module.

NWN: Loved this, loved NWN2 even more, but this is a great game, or rather engine for a series of modules to play through. Mind, I NEVER played the multiplayer aspects of it/GM mode so I am only speaking to the single player experience. The original campaign isn't great but is still worth playing through to see (it certainly has many good moments, it is Bioware in its heyday after all). Its use of the D&D rules are looser and it is, like Baldur's Gate before it, more realtime with pause than turnbased. It plays well for its time, probably looks a bit shaky these days but still a good game. The official expansions/DLCs are even better than the OC, and the mini-modules (Kingmaker (not to be confused with the Pathfinder Module), Infinite Dungeons, etc. are also worth playing with. (Infinite Dungeons is an attempt, more or less, to conceptually recreate "Dungeon Hack" in the NWN engine and was fun for the dungeon crawl it was.) While I'm here I'll also recommend NWN2 for most of the same reasons (and NWN2's second campaign, Mask of the Betrayer, is one of the best D&D RPG stories I've played in a video game, second to Torment).


Even with the Co8 patch, TOEE is quite buggy. It also suffers from a lack of appropriate magic items once you hit the "high" level 8 part of the game. If you don't have crafting feats for your spellcasters you will get stuck.

Much like DeathQuaker, I get bored with the game, but every so often my OCD kicks in and I keep pushing through. I am currently in the 4th level of the Temple, and at my current rate of progress, will probably actually finish the game sometime in mid-2019. ;)

I have NWN, but haven't yet played it. My son has played through NWN 1 & 2 along with all of the expansion materials and loves them.

In any case, if you are looking for copies of these games, get them from GOG, especially if you can wait for them to run a 75%+ off sale.


Eldred the Grey wrote:

I can hope though since they could expand upon it, but we will probably see NWN2 and its expansions first. But since BG 1.5 was well received we could see other expansions by them for the other enhanced editions. Particularly NWN since despite other peoples opinions I really liked the first Chapter since they made a nice attempt at fleshing out the city.

EtG

NWN2 runs absolutely fine now in its original release format (it came out in 2007 and the expansions over the next two years, so it's *relatively* new compared to the other games which are closer to 20 years old), so I'd be surprised if they remastered that. A big selling point would be if they fixed the camera controls. The controls for NWN 2 are awful, and make playing it deeply unpleasant no matter which of the three schemes you use.


For those who have checked out the Let's Play archive. The NWN playthrough does give a proper mocking to a really annoying part of the game where you have to get through a certain door. First you have to join up with a faction and do grunt work, and then you are sent off to investigate an entire different area. After all that, you are allowed to be marched to a specific building like some prisoner. That area does open up later but jeeze louise.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I only just realized this thread was randomly necromancied from like 6 years ago. Doh.

Well, good games are good games and always worth discussing. :)


Yup. Since the more you play the better the ideas and thoughts you have.

EtG.


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There is another mod for ToEE that you guys may not be aware of that goes a long way towards fixing the many bugs ToEE has, Temple+ (Temple Plus) is a partial ToEE engine rewrite which hooks out hardcoded bugs and rewrites new code to make the game much more stable, it also adds a few racial subtypes (Drow Duargar) and new Prestige classes, skills and spells as well as many bug fixes.

It works independently of the Co8 patch, so you can use it without the Co8 patch, but it also works with the Co8 patch as well so you can get the benefit of both mods.

You can find both Temple+ and Co8 mods on ModDB.com

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