3 party member party of new players to d20 D&D


3.5/d20/OGL

Liberty's Edge

Hi,

I have 3 players all new to "D&D". I tried to get them started on Pathfinder, but it's more daunting than 3.5e when you read the classes. I never thought I would be saying 3.5e is less complicated than anything - but Paizo wins for adding more choice than a new players brain can handle. So I whipped out my 3.5e corebooks (blew of the dust) and they seems far more comfortable with the more limited choices. Question is, what should a party of 3 look like to give them a fun game in 3.5e? Been a while since I've looked at 3.5e so suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Remember new players to d20 D&D that I don't want to scare off. I'll wear kid-gloves while DMing but I want them to do fun things. They'll be 5th level in a one-off game to start.

Thanks,
Stefan.


Stefan Hill wrote:
Question is, what should a party of 3 look like to give them a fun game in 3.5e?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. What should the party make up be (classes, races, etc)? Or what type of adventure should the party have?


If they want suggestions for classes I'd go for a rogue, fighter (or barbarian), and a caster.

I've found that having a spontaneous caster is a bit easier for new players, just because you can give them a basic understanding of their spells without overwhelming them, and then they aren't screwed when they haven't prepared anything worthwhile.


Also, I know you said you're starting at level 5 and the choices in Pathfinder scared them away from it... but...

If you start at level 1, player choice is far more limited in either game. They don't have to deal with assigning so many skill points, or multiple feats, or all the levels of saves, or the level 4 Ability score adjustment...

My advice would be to run a game at level 1, maybe level 2, not level 5. Low level is good for new players.

And don't be afraid to make recommendations of feats or skills to take based on their character concepts.


Just use the Pathfinder core rulebook.

Liberty's Edge

Uchawi wrote:
Just use the Pathfinder core rulebook.

Too many options in each class to choose from. Barbarians have Rage Powerz, Sorcerers have Blood Linez etc. Something more Plain-Jane but using the "D&D" d20 system is what they were happier with. Hence 3.5e core only. After flicking through the PF Corerules they were thinking that this game would take far too long to get to grips with. Looking at the PF Rulebook with a critical eye I do see their point. PF is great IF you have already lived through 3e & 3.5e, else it's a little heavy. Hence the Starter Boxed set for PF coming out - which I agree it needs.

Back on topic.

Yes, I was thinking about which 3 Character Classes would be a fun combination. My first PC was a Halfling (when that was a class/race), he got killed by a White Dragon, that hooked me on D&D. I'd like to, hopefully, impart a positive experience on the 3 new players. They are not Kidz so I don't need to wow them with John Woo type emulations via rulez.

One person seems keen on Barbarian and the other 2 don't really know.

Cheers,
S.


The old 3.5 Player's Handbook 2 covers this topic in Chapter 6: The Adventuring Group.

It covers player parties of 3-5, and a few other things.

Hope it helps

Signed AZ

Liberty's Edge

Azure_Zero wrote:

The old 3.5 Player's Handbook 2 covers this topic in Chapter 6: The Adventuring Group.

It covers player parties of 3-5, and a few other things.

Hope it helps

Signed AZ

Thanks for that. Anyone able to paraphrase this? I have NO idea where my PHB2 is currently. It was luck more than good management I found my 3 core rulebooks.

Really appreciate the help/input.

S.


I'd suggest sorcerer as mentioned above for an arcane caster if they are interested. Bard is also a good choice. There are some options for bards in 3.5, but ultimately most bards end up singing courage and then maybe cast a spell or two. Also bards can learn cure spells, so that is nice as well. Rogue isn't too complicated, especially if you help them design the character with ranks in tumble. Unfortunately there isn't any good spontaneous divine caster in the core rules, otherwise I'd suggest one of those. If you have Complete Divine, I'd use the Favored Soul class. Even though it isn't core, it is easier to use than the cleric. Fighter can also be pretty simple. I personally love the ranger and the bard, because I find those two classes can cover a lot of different concepts.

Are you interested in actual builds posted or just suggestions?


quick reference of missing party member recommended classes list from PHB2.

missing warrior:
Cleric, rogue, sorcerer

missing expert:
cleric, ranger, wizard

missing arcane:
bard, cleric fighter

missing divine:
Paladin, rogue, wizard

Liberty's Edge

pres man wrote:


Are you interested in actual builds posted or just suggestions?

If you have the time, that would be cool. I've played PF so long that I'm afraid my 3.5e-fu isn't what it was.

Regards,
Stefan.

Liberty's Edge

Azure_Zero wrote:

quick reference of missing party member recommended classes list from PHB2.

missing warrior:
Cleric, rogue, sorcerer

missing expert:
cleric, ranger, wizard

missing arcane:
bard, cleric fighter

missing divine:
Paladin, rogue, wizard

AWESOME! Thanks.


You know there is an other option, to complete the party and at the same time teach the basics (thinking NWN1 like here)

Make an NPC that acts as a drill sargent training the new recruits and give each an obstacle course that puts their talents to use, after training is complete go with the cliche of being under attack and have a new NPC (that is the missing part in a four man party) help the party perform a counter attack. After that go on into what ever you want.

I have run games with only 2 players and had NPCs party with them until new players arrived. But I run the NPCs as if they were characters, not a DMPCs, and it gave way to great roleplaying, heck some of the players were romancing the NPCs (this is before I got pathfinder and was running 3.5). I will note that I still have fragments of my old romance system which did use the old 1E "unearthed arcana" comeliness score.


I have a similar group with 3 PCs new to the game. Whe have played about 3 sessions now. What I have seen so far:

- See to it that they have a healer (cleric/druid). If no one wants to play a healer, then send an NPC cleric along with the party, only in order to heal, or give them a wand of cure light wounds. The reason for this is that new players tend to underestimate the damage they can take (at least mine do).

- A rogue might also be useful (depending on the adventures you choose; whether there are lots of traps) and at least 1 fighter type.

- If these players do not like complex rules, they probably do not want to play a wizard or sorcerer just yet. Mine don't.

- Choose adventures that are meant for one level lower than the average group level (at least, when there are only 3 PCs). This is hard at level 1, so be easy on them as long as they are level 1 (give them lots of time to rest between encounters).

Have fun with your new group!


3 player parties, hmm... okay how about paladin, sorceror or wizard/evoker and rogue or bard?

You have the fighter with clerical abilities however minor, the wizard with blaster spells but might have to select which 2 schools to be barred from and the choice of either a straight rogue with full access to rogue abilities or the bard who has somewhat lesser rogueish abilities but in time will have backup healing and some arcane abilities.

If one of your players wants to run a barbarian perhaps another should look at the druid with either a wizard or sorceror or bard as the thrid choice depending on their preference.

Ultimately you might want to let them run what they want and see how they cope, if little or no healing present either provide and npc cleric, if no warrior an npc fighter, if no rogue well you know what I mean.

What kind of game do you hope to run because that might give you more leeway with what characters they want to play.


Human Barbarian 5

Spoiler:
Armor Class: 20 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +2 shield), flat-footed 20, touch 12
Hit Points: 48 (5d12+10)
Saves:
Fort +6 (+4 base+2Con),
Ref +3 (+1 base+2Dex),
Will +1 (+1 base+0Will)
Uncanny Dodge: keep Dex even when flat-footed or hit by invisible attacker
Improved Uncanny Dodge: Only 9th level rogues or higher can sneak attack by flanking the you
Trap Sense +1: +1 bonus on Reflex saves and +1 dodge bonus on AC vs. traps
==========================================
Speed: 30 ft (30 ft + 10 ft FM-10 Armor)
Base Attack: +5; Grapple: +7
Melee: +1 battleaxe +8 (1d8+3/x3)
Ranged: mwk comp longbow +8 (1d8+2/x3, 110 ft range increment)
Rage 2/day, 7 rounds: +4 Str (+2 Melee Attack, +2 Melee Dam or +3 with 2-handed), +4 Con (+2 Fort, +10 HP), +2 moral bonus to Will saves, -2 penalty to AC; fatigued for the rest of the encounter after
==========================================
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Feats: Endurance, Diehard, Power Attack
Skills:
Climb +7 (+8 ranks-3ACP+2Str),
Jump +7 (+8 ranks-3ACP+2Str),
Listen +8 (+8 ranks+0Wis),
Ride +10 (+8 ranks+2Dex),
Survival +8 (+8 ranks+0Wis),
Swim +4 (+8 ranks-6ACP+2Str)
Class Abilities: Fast Movement, illiteracy, rage 2/day, uncanny dodge, trap sense +1, improved uncanny dodge
Possessions: +1 battleaxe, +1 breastplate, heavy steel shield, masterwork composite longbow (+2 Str), 20 arrows, 49 gp

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