Kas and Vecna article at Wizards


4th Edition

Dark Archive

My review of this new article:

Kas & Vecna


I liked it to but really would have liked a bibliography that cited all the sources where Kas and Vecna have been mentioned.


mortellan wrote:

My review of this new article:

Kas & Vecna

I'm not clear why they'd feel the need to apparently retcon 'how Kas became a vampire' but there it is. Maybe it's going to become a crucial plot point in some future adventure?

:-?

I'm also unclear on why a vistani cares these days about Vecna and Kas? The last I heard, Vecna spectacularly broke out of Ravenloft (where the vistani used to roam) at the end of 2nd Edition, and turned into a fully fledged deity back home on Oerth. But maybe Ravenloft's crash-landed on Oerth - or Vecna is going to try to blow up the whole universe (yet again) and remake it as he likes ([naughty humour]in time for another edition change??? ;) [/naughty humour]) ...

Anyway, thanks for posting to update us on what's currently going on over there, Mortellan. :)

The Exchange

Vistani don't seem to be in Ravenloft anymore. In fact, 4e doesn't actually recognise Ravenloft.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

The first creators liked Jack Vance's magic system so much they used it for their game.

And rearranged his name to make their master wizard.

Dark Archive

According to the article Vistani come from or travel in the Shadowfell, which is also where Vecna did his prison stint. The Shadowfell in 4e is somewhat analogous to the Ethereal based Ravenloft I guess.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Atavist wrote:

The first creators liked Jack Vance's magic system so much they used it for their game.

And rearranged his name to make their master wizard.

*facepalms for not realizing it before*


4 doesn't follow the whole "All the planes literally exist at the same time and are connected through Planescape" weirdness, so when it talks about the Vistani, it typically talks about the Vistani as they exist in the "PoL" base setting rather then setting how it is for all settings, since the settings in 4e are kept distinct.


mortellan wrote:
According to the article Vistani come from or travel in the Shadowfell, which is also where Vecna did his prison stint. The Shadowfell in 4e is somewhat analogous to the Ethereal based Ravenloft I guess.

Where the heck was their Castle Ravenloft board game set then, if they axed Ravenloft? Did Strahd's ancestral pile get relocated to the Shadowfell? Or was it not grounded in any of their settings?


ProfessorCirno wrote:
it typically talks about the Vistani as they exist in the "PoL" base setting rather then setting how it is for all settings, since the settings in 4e are kept distinct.

Heh, distinct except for making them all use versions of the PoL cosmology, 4e PoL core races even if they didn't exist in those settings before, other PoL tropes made mandatory, etc.

The Exchange

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
mortellan wrote:
According to the article Vistani come from or travel in the Shadowfell, which is also where Vecna did his prison stint. The Shadowfell in 4e is somewhat analogous to the Ethereal based Ravenloft I guess.
Where the heck was their Castle Ravenloft board game set then, if they axed Ravenloft? Did Strahd's ancestral pile get relocated to the Shadowfell? Or was it not grounded in any of their settings?

Well, as a board game it doesn't need to be set anywhere. In any case, Castle Ravenloft existed before the plane of Ravenloft. So you can probably put Castle Ravenloft where you like.


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
In fact, 4e doesn't actually recognise Ravenloft.

A while ago, there were a few articles about the Domains of Dread but it seems like nothing has been done recently.


Galdor the Great wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
In fact, 4e doesn't actually recognise Ravenloft.
A while ago, there were a few articles about the Domains of Dread but it seems like nothing has been done recently.

Probably because of the big focus on the recent shadow books (Heroes of Shadow and Gloomwrought) - or because they were planning for a Ravenloft setting later this year, which they ended up cancelling or delaying.

As it is, 4E presents the Domains as part of the core setting, and they can be quite useful in that role (I sent my PCs, in an Epic game, into such a Domain and it was great watching them realize that all their Epic power was largely useless when dealing with the rules of the Domain.)

And while they haven't released a Ravenloft setting book, it can be pretty much straight up run in 4E if desired - I'm doing that right now. My current campaign is set in Ravenloft, and filled with fear, curses, madness, etc - and is a low magic somewhat sandbox game largely driven by the player's goals more than an overall plot. And it is working quite well - I've got enough setting material from previous products that is pretty much trivial to port over and use.

Similarly, I imagine that's the intent behind Castle Ravenloft - nothing about 4E says, "Ravenloft doesn't exist"... it just hasn't been released as a campaign book yet. Hence, as a largely standalone product, Castle Ravenloft can be set there just fine on its own.


King of the Crosstrade wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
it typically talks about the Vistani as they exist in the "PoL" base setting rather then setting how it is for all settings, since the settings in 4e are kept distinct.
Heh, distinct except for making them all use versions of the PoL cosmology, 4e PoL core races even if they didn't exist in those settings before, other PoL tropes made mandatory, etc.

Dark Sun pretty heavily rebuts that claim, I would think. They have done their best to keep a default cosmology framework behind it all, but each campaign interacts with that framework on its own, and Dark Sun definitely has no problem excising aspects of the core rules that don't fit, or ignoring tropes that aren't appropriate to the setting.

Grand Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Atavist wrote:

The first creators liked Jack Vance's magic system so much they used it for their game.

And rearranged his name to make their master wizard.

*facepalms for not realizing it before*

Tricky, tricky.

>Goes all in on the facepalming action<


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Atavist wrote:

The first creators liked Jack Vance's magic system so much they used it for their game.

And rearranged his name to make their master wizard.

Mind=Blown


Hmm. Now I'm starting to wonder if Wizards of the Coast have abandoned any further specific setting plans and their current strategy is now simply to cannabilise what they want and fit it into their generic Points of Light setting?
Do they have any more settings in their schedules at present? If not it may be more than a slightly revamped Vecna & Kas that turn up in their Points of Light world in the next few years...


Charles Evans 25 wrote:
mortellan wrote:
According to the article Vistani come from or travel in the Shadowfell, which is also where Vecna did his prison stint. The Shadowfell in 4e is somewhat analogous to the Ethereal based Ravenloft I guess.

Where the heck was their Castle Ravenloft board game set then, if they axed Ravenloft? Did Strahd's ancestral pile get relocated to the Shadowfell? Or was it not grounded in any of their settings?

There's totally a Ravenloft! If you want there to be!

Like I said, it was really second edition that pushed for this idea that all the settings literally existed side by side with each other and were all somehow connected. In 4e, the default is literally "However you want it to be." If you want there to be Ravenloft then there is. If you want Sigil connecting all the various settings then go for it. On the other hand, if you don't want those...then they aren't there.

King of the Crosstrade wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
it typically talks about the Vistani as they exist in the "PoL" base setting rather then setting how it is for all settings, since the settings in 4e are kept distinct.
Heh, distinct except for making them all use versions of the PoL cosmology, 4e PoL core races even if they didn't exist in those settings before, other PoL tropes made mandatory, etc.

Not really? As was stated earlier, Dark Sun rebuffs this rather strongly. Eberron takes a few cues from it but otherwise stays the same.

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Hmm. Now I'm starting to wonder if Wizards of the Coast have abandoned any further specific setting plans and their current strategy is now simply to cannabilise what they want and fit it into their generic Points of Light setting?

Do they have any more settings in their schedules at present? If not it may be more than a slightly revamped Vecna & Kas that turn up in their Points of Light world in the next few years...

PoL isn't really a setting in the same sense that Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun and Eberron are. It's more of a set of plot hooks with a vague history to provide ruins and dungeons.

It's sorta how early Greyhawk was - emphasis is on plot hooks rather then set in stone details.


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Hmm. Now I'm starting to wonder if Wizards of the Coast have abandoned any further specific setting plans and their current strategy is now simply to cannabilise what they want and fit it into their generic Points of Light setting?

Do they have any more settings in their schedules at present? If not it may be more than a slightly revamped Vecna & Kas that turn up in their Points of Light world in the next few years...

Nothing has really changed there - the PoL setting has tended to encapsulate snippets of classic characters, gods, NPCs, locations, etc, since the beginning (when there is a place for them.)

They did sorta cancel the 2011 setting - originally it looked to both be a book expanding on the PoL setting, plus the Ravenloft game at the end of the year - the Ravenloft game got cancelled, the PoL stuff was reduced in scope into the Nentir Vale Monster Vault (which is still awesome).

Instead, they ended up with two 'mini-campaign settings': The Gloomwrought book for Shadowfell, and the Neverwinter book for Forgotten Realms. (Despite the Neverwinter CRPG unfortunately getting pushed back to next year due to licensing issues.) Which, from all accounts, are both excellent books - but focused around a single city/locale, rather than a full setting.

Still, I think this has somewhat had to do with them restructuring the line - the last setting (Dark Sun) was a pretty big success, so I think it likely we'll see another campaign setting in 2012.


Ahhhh, now I see. The Points of Light setting is getting too fixed, too rigid to them. Ah well, only one thing to do. Have Vecna start a godswar or whatever, causing a Year of Ultimate Death or something. This will destroy every sort of city, town, and even smaller communities, and make the few survivors huddle in remaining caves. With the 56.000-year time jump they add, it's safe to assume that the Truly Vast distances between surviving people has made everything living (or undead, the Vecna-WSI also negated magic) extinct. Ummm...

The Exchange

Not quite sure where that came from...


Don't mind me, I'm just old and bitter. =)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

You don't look that old...


Perhaps its just that I feel old when I hear what came companies do to their campaign settings...


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Mr. Fox wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Atavist wrote:

The first creators liked Jack Vance's magic system so much they used it for their game.

And rearranged his name to make their master wizard.

*facepalms for not realizing it before*

Tricky, tricky.

>Goes all in on the facepalming action<

I know! Right?!

I feel such the poor Vance fan now :(

Greg

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