So is there NOTHING in all of Ultimate Combat for a Two-Handed Fighter?


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I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Scarab Sages

Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Two-handed fighter or two-weapon fighter? I haven't been through the feats in detail yet, but I recall seeing a couple of things that looked like they would work well for 2-handers, although maybe they weren't specifically designed for 2-handers.


Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

You're not near finished appreciating Shield of Swings. You'll get something new when your time is up. ;)


Wolfsnap wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Two-handed fighter or two-weapon fighter? I haven't been through the feats in detail yet, but I recall seeing a couple of things that looked like they would work well for 2-handers, although maybe they weren't specifically designed for 2-handers.

Two-Handed. I saw some nice things in there for Two-Weapon Fighters...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Wiggz wrote:
Wolfsnap wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Two-handed fighter or two-weapon fighter? I haven't been through the feats in detail yet, but I recall seeing a couple of things that looked like they would work well for 2-handers, although maybe they weren't specifically designed for 2-handers.
Two-Handed. I saw some nice things in there for Two-Weapon Fighters...

2H fighters, being the biggest DPR of all weapon setups, didn't really need much.

Still, there are feats such as Hammer The Gap that you might find attractive.

Dark Archive

Cleave / cleaving finish is a great line for the two-hander, it's old-school cleave where you get a free attack when you finish someone.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Two-handers don't need more content. That being said, there are some awesome expansion feats for those one-hit wonders who use the Vital Strike line. They may be a bandaid for otherwise subpar feats, but that doesn't change the fact that they work best with two-handed weapon fighters.


Wiggz wrote:
Wolfsnap wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Two-handed fighter or two-weapon fighter? I haven't been through the feats in detail yet, but I recall seeing a couple of things that looked like they would work well for 2-handers, although maybe they weren't specifically designed for 2-handers.
Two-Handed. I saw some nice things in there for Two-Weapon Fighters...

Like what? There wasn't much I saw. Hammer the gap was kinda crap- it only added to damage and you needed to hit with at least 5 attacks to get any value- Two weapon rend is heaps better.

Now if each strike added to your HIT bonus, it would have been good...


Two-handed Barbarians got a bit of love, at least.

Raging Brutality lets you add your Constitution bonus to damage by spending 3 rage rounds, and Furious Finish lets you end your rage to maximize your damage dice with Vital Strike. Devastating Strike lets you add extra damage per dice on Vital Strike, and they're multiplied on a crit.

There's also a surprising number of feats based on throwing two-handed weapons. There may be the possibility of a viable Hurler barbarian build, throwing earthbreakers at people's faces.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd like to repeat: 2H Fighters don't need any more love in the damage department. Actually, I'm glad there's only one no-brainer DPR boost feat in UC for them.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
...I'm glad there's only one no-brainer DPR boost feat in UC for them.

Um...which one are you referring to?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
...I'm glad there's only one no-brainer DPR boost feat in UC for them.
Um...which one are you referring to?

Hammer the Gap. Hey, it's free damage every time you hit, what's not to love?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
...I'm glad there's only one no-brainer DPR boost feat in UC for them.
Um...which one are you referring to?

Apparantly one needs some brain to find it. :)


UC's feats were clearly meant to shore up the lesser used combat styles, and since two-handing is one of the most used combat styles, it didn't get much.

Liberty's Edge

I like Thunderstriker. It's more or less designed for fighters with a two-handed weapon wearing a buckler.

If you're looking for optimization, sorry. Try again next book.


Feral wrote:

I like Thunderstriker. It's more or less designed for fighters with a two-handed weapon wearing a buckler.

If you're looking for optimization, sorry. Try again next book.

I do like this one makes me want to retool my pally/ sorc/ dd to make use of it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Feral wrote:

I like Thunderstriker. It's more or less designed for fighters with a two-handed weapon wearing a buckler.

If you're looking for optimization, sorry. Try again next book.

You mean two handed fighters weren't optimised enough? When they are the only option that 95 percent of single classed fighters take, I'd say that they're good enough as they stand.

Liberty's Edge

Not every book is going to have optimization gold. If fact, I would prefer very few did. There's plenty in UC that is usable, useful, and/or viable for a two-handed fighter.


Again, why is hammer the gap any good.
It adds damage equal to number of hits you have landed.

So at level 10
Attacks 10/10/5 (hasted)
if you land all of them the second hit adds +1 (for the first strike landed)
and the 3rd hit adds 2(for the 1st and nd)

woooo, I burned a feat for 3 damage (IF the last iterative hits)

It gets better with moreattacks, let's say a TWO WEAPON WARRIOR does a Hasted full attack and lands all blows (unlikely)

18(h)/18/18/13/13/8/8/3

so he adds a cumulative number for each strike (first hit gets nothing)
= +1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6/+7 or 28damage.

Sorry but if I had a fighter land 8hits I doubt 28damage is adding much.

If I'm wrong please let me know, I do actually wannalike this feat...


STR Ranger wrote:

Again, why is hammer the gap any good.

It adds damage equal to number of hits you have landed.

So at level 10
Attacks 10/10/5 (hasted)
if you land all of them the second hit adds +1 (for the first strike landed)
and the 3rd hit adds 2(for the 1st and nd)

woooo, I burned a feat for 3 damage (IF the last iterative hits)

It gets better with moreattacks, let's say a TWO WEAPON WARRIOR does a Hasted full attack and lands all blows (unlikely)

18(h)/18/18/13/13/8/8/3

so he adds a cumulative number for each strike (first hit gets nothing)
= +1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6/+7 or 28damage.

Sorry but if I had a fighter land 8hits I doubt 28damage is adding much.

If I'm wrong please let me know, I do actually wannalike this feat...

It don't have my book with me, but if it is cumulutive then it is not bad. If you have an 11th level THF fighter then it will be close to about 10% of your damage, assuming all the attacks hit. If you area TWF fighter then it is a higher percentage.

A level 11 fighter with ITWF get 5 attacks in will be getting 15 points of extra damage. I will guess that he is doing about 70 points of damage before hammer the gap comes into play. Even if the last attack misses he is getting 10 points of damage or about a 13% increase in damage.

PS:I did not check the DPR thread for more accurate numbers. These are just estimates.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
STR Ranger wrote:

Again, why is hammer the gap any good.

It adds damage equal to number of hits you have landed.

So at level 10
Attacks 10/10/5 (hasted)
if you land all of them the second hit adds +1 (for the first strike landed)
and the 3rd hit adds 2(for the 1st and nd)

woooo, I burned a feat for 3 damage (IF the last iterative hits)

It gets better with moreattacks, let's say a TWO WEAPON WARRIOR does a Hasted full attack and lands all blows (unlikely)

18(h)/18/18/13/13/8/8/3

so he adds a cumulative number for each strike (first hit gets nothing)
= +1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6/+7 or 28damage.

Sorry but if I had a fighter land 8hits I doubt 28damage is adding much.

If I'm wrong please let me know, I do actually wannalike this feat...

As far as 2H goes - 2H fighters don't need any boosts. They are on the top of damage scale. They get a small bump up from Hammer the Gap, which is good to take if you already have all the other must-take feats.

Now on to your TWF, You know what gives you +28 damage in 8 hits? Weapon Spec+GWeapon Spec. (ok, they give +32 in 8 hits, not much difference). That's two feats, which are Fighter only, and apply only to one weapon of your choice. Versus one feat that procs on any weapon.


Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Tiger pounce: you ignore PA penalty but get the bonus to damage. You're welcome 2 handed Fighters.

Dark Archive

Starbuck_II wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Tiger pounce: you ignore PA penalty but get the bonus to damage. You're welcome 2 handed Fighters.

I agree that Two-handed Fighters don't need much love, but don't tell them to spend 4 feats just to get one thing that benefits them.


Mergy wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Tiger pounce: you ignore PA penalty but get the bonus to damage. You're welcome 2 handed Fighters.
I agree that Two-handed Fighters don't need much love, but don't tell them to spend 4 feats just to get one thing that benefits them.

Would two of those happen to be power attack and furious focus? I dont have the book so im actually asking


Though its a bit of a pain to grab (requires combat expertise :P), Felling Smash looks decent, and seems to be stackable with vital strike and furious focus. Grants a swift action trip attempt with a successful power attack. If you got greater trip, then you also get an AoO out of it, allowing you to move, vital strike, trip, AoO in one round.

Dark Archive

Shadow_of_death wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Tiger pounce: you ignore PA penalty but get the bonus to damage. You're welcome 2 handed Fighters.
I agree that Two-handed Fighters don't need much love, but don't tell them to spend 4 feats just to get one thing that benefits them.
Would two of those happen to be power attack and furious focus? I dont have the book so im actually asking

Tiger Pounce is a feat that requires Improved Unarmed Strike, as well as two other Tiger style feats that only apply to unarmed strikes. Tiger Pounce is excellent and can be used with a two-handed weapon, but you wouldn't want to.


Anburaid wrote:
Though its a bit of a pain to grab (requires combat expertise :P), Felling Smash looks decent, and seems to be stackable with vital strike and furious focus. Grants a swift action trip attempt with a successful power attack. If you got greater trip, then you also get an AoO out of it, allowing you to move, vital strike, trip, AoO in one round.

Well with the tiger pounce mentioned above you could actually use the combat expertise, with power attack being free you wont even notice the penalty from combat expertise, its free ac.

Edit: thanks about the tiger pounce, shoulda figured it would be in tiger style. Ill have to wait for the book to see what can be done with it.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Shadow_of_death wrote:
Well with the tiger pounce mentioned above you could actually use the combat expertise, with power attack being free you wont even notice the penalty from combat expertise, its free ac.

So you take a penalty to attacks in order to gain AC. Then you lose the AC to gain Power Attack.

Um...why not just use Power Attack by itself? You end up with the same net result.


Ravingdork wrote:
Shadow_of_death wrote:
Well with the tiger pounce mentioned above you could actually use the combat expertise, with power attack being free you wont even notice the penalty from combat expertise, its free ac.

So you take a penalty to attacks in order to gain AC. Then you lose the AC to gain Power Attack.

Um...why not just use Power Attack by itself? You end up with the same net result.

I think it generates infinite stall time for you to think of a decent strategy.

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

Again, why is hammer the gap any good. It adds damage equal to number of hits you have landed.

So at level 10
Attacks 10/10/5 (hasted)
if you land all of them the second hit adds +1 (for the first strike landed) and the 3rd hit adds 2(for the 1st and nd)

It don't have my book with me, but if it is cumulutive then it is not bad. If you have an 11th level THF fighter then it will be close to about 10% of your damage, assuming all the attacks hit. If you area TWF fighter then it is a higher percentage.

A level 11 fighter with ITWF get 5 attacks in will be getting 15 points of extra damage. I will guess that he is doing about 70 points of damage before hammer the gap comes into play. Even if the last attack misses he is getting 10 points of damage or about a 13% increase in damage.

PS:I did not check the DPR thread for more accurate numbers. These are just estimates.

I think it's lame, and here's why:

-- If you, a purpose-built juggernaut of melee doom with a lots of feats from lots of fighter levels, are getting repeated full-attacks against the same opponent....you usually will be killing it quickly anyway UNLESS their AC is stuporific (i.e., you keep missing). The sole exception is something with abysmal AC but gargantuan DR.)

So, yoy...another feat that helps you do piddling extra damage to targets that are already hosed, but is worthless in those situations where you really need it -- such as when you're Slowed (a under-appreciated situation in which the other two-hander guy in your party with Vital Strike will demonstrate the awesome power of his 6th-level feat choice over yours).


In light of some of the new feats, I've actually been thinking about the viability of a Vital Strike-oriented Barbarian, particularly if Titan Mauler ever gets fixed.

Such a build would involve use of the Vital Strike/Devastating Strike line, along with Furious Finish and Raging Brutality. Combined with the Surprise Accuracy rage power chain, along with Powerful Blow and Reckless Abandon. He'd have a ridiculous to-hit chance, and roll one hell of a lot of maximized dice. He'd be dishing out the kind of pain that ruins the BBEG's day in a single blow.

And if he crits...even though the Vital Strike dice aren't multiplied on a crit, everything else sure is. A large falcata combined with the Lethal Accuracy rage power, would have a 17-20/x4 crit range. A Large Bastard sword would also be a decent option, since maximized Vital Strike dice would really take the most advantage of the dice difference between it and a greatsword.


Mike Schneider wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

Again, why is hammer the gap any good. It adds damage equal to number of hits you have landed.

So at level 10
Attacks 10/10/5 (hasted)
if you land all of them the second hit adds +1 (for the first strike landed) and the 3rd hit adds 2(for the 1st and nd)

It don't have my book with me, but if it is cumulutive then it is not bad. If you have an 11th level THF fighter then it will be close to about 10% of your damage, assuming all the attacks hit. If you area TWF fighter then it is a higher percentage.

A level 11 fighter with ITWF get 5 attacks in will be getting 15 points of extra damage. I will guess that he is doing about 70 points of damage before hammer the gap comes into play. Even if the last attack misses he is getting 10 points of damage or about a 13% increase in damage.

PS:I did not check the DPR thread for more accurate numbers. These are just estimates.

I think it's lame, and here's why:

-- If you, a purpose-built juggernaut of melee doom with a lots of feats from lots of fighter levels, are getting repeated full-attacks against the same opponent....you usually will be killing it quickly anyway UNLESS their AC is stuporific (i.e., you keep missing). The sole exception is something with abysmal AC but gargantuan DR.)

So, yoy...another feat that helps you do piddling extra damage to targets that are already hosed, but is worthless in those situations where you really need it -- such as when you're Slowed (a under-appreciated situation in which the other two-hander guy in your party with Vital Strike will demonstrate the awesome power of his 6th-level feat choice over yours).

This is true. It is basically overkill, and those that can't hit regularly won't benefit from it anyway.


Ravingdork wrote:
Shadow_of_death wrote:
Well with the tiger pounce mentioned above you could actually use the combat expertise, with power attack being free you wont even notice the penalty from combat expertise, its free ac.

So you take a penalty to attacks in order to gain AC. Then you lose the AC to gain Power Attack.

Um...why not just use Power Attack by itself? You end up with the same net result.

Cause I dont have the book and dont know what the feat entails xP


wraithstrike wrote:


This is true. It is basically overkill, and those that can't hit regularly won't benefit from it anyway.

Nothing wrong with overkill, though. Doubly so if you've already gotten your other good feats like Vital Strike and whatnot and need something to round out the selection. It's not perfectly optimized, but it's certainly nothing to turn up one's nose at.


wraithstrike wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

Again, why is hammer the gap any good. It adds damage equal to number of hits you have landed.

So at level 10
Attacks 10/10/5 (hasted)
if you land all of them the second hit adds +1 (for the first strike landed) and the 3rd hit adds 2(for the 1st and nd)

It don't have my book with me, but if it is cumulutive then it is not bad. If you have an 11th level THF fighter then it will be close to about 10% of your damage, assuming all the attacks hit. If you area TWF fighter then it is a higher percentage.

A level 11 fighter with ITWF get 5 attacks in will be getting 15 points of extra damage. I will guess that he is doing about 70 points of damage before hammer the gap comes into play. Even if the last attack misses he is getting 10 points of damage or about a 13% increase in damage.

PS:I did not check the DPR thread for more accurate numbers. These are just estimates.

I think it's lame, and here's why:

-- If you, a purpose-built juggernaut of melee doom with a lots of feats from lots of fighter levels, are getting repeated full-attacks against the same opponent....you usually will be killing it quickly anyway UNLESS their AC is stuporific (i.e., you keep missing). The sole exception is something with abysmal AC but gargantuan DR.)

So, yoy...another feat that helps you do piddling extra damage to targets that are already hosed, but is worthless in those situations where you really need it -- such as when you're Slowed (a under-appreciated situation in which the other two-hander guy in your party with Vital Strike will demonstrate the awesome power of his 6th-level feat choice over yours).

This is true. It is basically overkill, and those that can't hit regularly won't benefit from it anyway.

Yeah, I can't see it being worth it on a fighter,

Since my fighter would still take Gtr Wpn Fcs (applies all the time and it takes 8 hits for Hammer the gap to get close, damage wise)

I CAN see it being a way for a NON-Fighter TWF build to get a psudeo- Wpn Spl.
It would give a good return for nearly any TWF class, but particularly any one that has a reliable means of Pinning an opponent (like a Trip Buddy animal companion or 'Mount' for beastmaster Cav's. Order of the Shield Cav's with thier stand still ability etc)..

I'd rate it as a good, but not awesome feat. It's actually nice on high crit weapons as well (like my Scimitar/Kukri ranger build) since it multiplies on a crit.


LazarX wrote:
Feral wrote:

I like Thunderstriker. It's more or less designed for fighters with a two-handed weapon wearing a buckler.

If you're looking for optimization, sorry. Try again next book.

You mean two handed fighters weren't optimised enough? When they are the only option that 95 percent of single classed fighters take, I'd say that they're good enough as they stand.

LOL - yeah, sorry... I made the mistake of assuming that a book named 'Ultimate Combat' would have at least a couple of good things for - as you say - 95% of single classed fighters out there.

Look, its basically Gunfighters, Oriental characters and then some siege/vehicle stuff. That's fine and all, but I consider it a little more fringe than I would have expected for a mainstream book.

In our campaign, we allow Vital Strike to be used any time you make a standard action attack with just a few rare exceptions, so my 2H fighter didn't really NEED anything... but there's not much in the book for 2W fighters or Sword & Board fighters either. Basically the 1-2% of fighters who aren't one of the 'big three' got all kinds of good stuff, but I'm not entirely sure that that should have been their target audience.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Wiggz wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Feral wrote:

I like Thunderstriker. It's more or less designed for fighters with a two-handed weapon wearing a buckler.

If you're looking for optimization, sorry. Try again next book.

You mean two handed fighters weren't optimised enough? When they are the only option that 95 percent of single classed fighters take, I'd say that they're good enough as they stand.

LOL - yeah, sorry... I made the mistake of assuming that a book named 'Ultimate Combat' would have at least a couple of good things for - as you say - 95% of single classed fighters out there.

Look, its basically Gunfighters, Oriental characters and then some siege/vehicle stuff. That's fine and all, but I consider it a little more fringe than I would have expected for a mainstream book.

In our campaign, we allow Vital Strike to be used any time you make a standard action attack with just a few rare exceptions, so my 2H fighter didn't really NEED anything... but there's not much in the book for 2W fighters or Sword & Board fighters either. Basically the 1-2% of fighters who aren't one of the 'big three' got all kinds of good stuff, but I'm not entirely sure that that should have been their target audience.

I'm going to completely disagree with you. They did exactly what they should have by giving the lesser options a power boost. This way prevents the power creep that would have happened if they had made even better feats for 2-handed fighters, and power creeping splat books is something that should be guarded against.

Liberty's Edge

It adds a bunch of new 2H weapons.
-Kle.


Mergy wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Feral wrote:

I like Thunderstriker. It's more or less designed for fighters with a two-handed weapon wearing a buckler.

If you're looking for optimization, sorry. Try again next book.

You mean two handed fighters weren't optimised enough? When they are the only option that 95 percent of single classed fighters take, I'd say that they're good enough as they stand.

LOL - yeah, sorry... I made the mistake of assuming that a book named 'Ultimate Combat' would have at least a couple of good things for - as you say - 95% of single classed fighters out there.

Look, its basically Gunfighters, Oriental characters and then some siege/vehicle stuff. That's fine and all, but I consider it a little more fringe than I would have expected for a mainstream book.

In our campaign, we allow Vital Strike to be used any time you make a standard action attack with just a few rare exceptions, so my 2H fighter didn't really NEED anything... but there's not much in the book for 2W fighters or Sword & Board fighters either. Basically the 1-2% of fighters who aren't one of the 'big three' got all kinds of good stuff, but I'm not entirely sure that that should have been their target audience.

I'm going to completely disagree with you. They did exactly what they should have by giving the lesser options a power boost. This way prevents the power creep that would have happened if they had made even better feats for 2-handed fighters, and power creeping splat books is something that should be guarded against.

My friend, if you think this wasn't a Monk splat book then you're out of your mind.

I wasn't necessarily saying that they should have been introducing things to make 2H, 2W or S&B fighters BETTER... quite the opposite - even with all of the bonus feats Fighters get, there are still only so many slots. I would have liked to have seen more feats that allowed for diversification of these primary Fighter archetypes that are so popular, to discourage the cloning 'sameness' that might otherwise be seen.

I'm never going to think that it makes good business sense to put out expensive, mainstream products that appeal to 1-2% of your target audience and does nothing for the other 98%.

Honestly, I just wish that I had known before I shelled out $30-$40 for this thing that it would pretty much be solely an Oriental Adventures/Gunslinger handbook. It would have saved me some time, anticipation and money - I think the book is beautiful, well-balanced and very useful for who it was designed for, but as a mainstream Fighter, 'Ultimate Combat' certainly wasn't for me.


Wiggz wrote:

I just got finished with my perusal of the new Ultimate Combat, looking through feats, new archetypes, etc. and found nothing that I would add to my Two-Handed fighter. Did I miss something? I'm sincerely hoping that I did...

Perhaps they should have called it Ultimate Combat for Monks instead, eh?

Actually the problem with UC goes far beyond the issue of not having anything for 2H Fighters. The real problem is that there is very little in that book for Fighters, period.

I totally agree that Monks needed a boost, but we Fighter players coulda used a few goodies too. And before I hear all the hate about "Fighters don't need more feats, they do too much damage!", most feats aren't about damage, so that argument doesn't hold water. Some cool, useful feats for Fighters woulda been nice. In that whole book I only saw 1 decent feat for the majority of Fighters: Pin Down.

There is one other feat that is very awesome for my particular build (polearm master/trip specialist) called Felling Smash. As far as Fighters go, other than those two feats, zip. The Fighter archetypes weren't especially interesting either.


My friend, if you think this wasn't a Monk splat book then you're out of your mind.

I wasn't necessarily saying that they should have been introducing things to make 2H, 2W or S&B fighters BETTER... quite the opposite - even with all of the bonus feats Fighters get, there are still only so many slots. I would have liked to have seen more feats that allowed for diversification of these primary Fighter archetypes that are so popular, to...

Completely in agreement, Wiggz. I wasn't necessarily looking for more damage output or raw power either, just some interesting, different options for Fighters. UC was a huge disappointment there.

Also, did we really need extensive vehicle rules? This is Pathfinder, not Shadowrun.

Now if I were a monk player, I would be ecstatic...


Two words:
Archers.Fighters.


HeHateMe wrote:


Completely in agreement, Wiggz. I wasn't necessarily looking for more damage output or raw power either, just some interesting, different options for Fighters. UC was a huge disappointment there.

But you got options.

Tower Shield Fighter ignores at lv 5, the penalty to hit from tower shields (and other buffs).
You give up some weapon training so you'll deal less damage though.


It gives the two handed weapon users the no dachi: saving you a feat on exotic weapon proficiency elven curve blade.

Liberty's Edge

Wiggz wrote:
I CAN see it being a way for a NON-Fighter TWF build to get a psudeo- Wpn Spl.

You mean like a rogue?

-- Those guys are starved for feats.

I can't see it being worth monkey spit until high level (when you have massive gobs of attacks and full-time Greater Invisibility).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Mike Schneider wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I CAN see it being a way for a NON-Fighter TWF build to get a psudeo- Wpn Spl.

You mean like a rogue?

-- Those guys are starved for feats.

I can't see it being worth monkey spit until high level (when you have massive gobs of attacks and full-time Greater Invisibility).

Actually, I think there's another fighter-type that kinda specializes in TWF... almost like it's a thing for them, like a "combat style" or something.... anyone help me out here?


I'm sorry but I can't be a fighter and not be excited about the brawler archetype. I don't care if the weapons are crap.


Shisumo wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I CAN see it being a way for a NON-Fighter TWF build to get a psudeo- Wpn Spl.

You mean like a rogue?

-- Those guys are starved for feats.

I can't see it being worth monkey spit until high level (when you have massive gobs of attacks and full-time Greater Invisibility).

Actually, I think there's another fighter-type that kinda specializes in TWF... almost like it's a thing for them, like a "combat style" or something.... anyone help me out here?

Don't know what you speak of sir we only have two handing fighters, two handing paladins, two handing rangers, archers, and rangers that shoot greatswords from there bows.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I CAN see it being a way for a NON-Fighter TWF build to get a psudeo- Wpn Spl.

You mean like a rogue?

-- Those guys are starved for feats.

I can't see it being worth monkey spit until high level (when you have massive gobs of attacks and full-time Greater Invisibility).

I see rogues not benefiting as much as a full bab class with this. Even with flanking a rogue gets less attacks and will hit less than a Full bab class.

Liberty's Edge

More analysis proving Hammer the Gap is a blows-dead-dogs "munchkin trap":

Odds of sequential successful attacks:

always hit on 2s: 50% odds of 13 successful sequential attacks
always hit on 3s: 50% odds of 6 successful sequential attacks
always hit on 4s: 50% odds of 4 successful sequential attacks
always hit on 5s: 50% odds of 3 successful sequential attacks
always hit on 6s: 50% odds of 2 successful sequential attacks

(Remember: you don't get any extra damage until you get a "second hit in a row".)

Yeah. Right. Lotsa luck, pal. Go ahead: roll that -10 iterative when you have such a "lovely" string going; I dare you. You need four in a row to match the damage bonus of Weapon Specialization.

-- It's also one of those annoying, table-delaying feats which requires you to remember what you did last turn, which you won't.

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