Constrict + Vital Strike


Rules Questions


Constrict as a general rule uses your primary natural attack for damage. Could you thus apply vital strike modify constrict damage ?


I'd say no. Constrict is damage done whenever you make a successful grapple check. It is not an attack in and of itself. If you applied Vital Strike to Constrict, you could get the use of Vital Strike twice, as a successful grapple check allows you to deal damage, and constrict is in addition to that. I suppose I might allow Vital Strike on the damage application of grapple check, as it's a standard action to make one attack, in a sense, against your foe. It would not then also apply to constrict, as there is no attack needed to deal the damage; it is an automatic affect of grappeling.


Hard to call when you consider creatures with grab, yu can vital strike the first attack and then get a free grapple for constrict damage. Is the vital strike still applying for the constrict? If it is a separate attack how did you vital strike in the first place?


Shadow_of_death wrote:
Hard to call when you consider creatures with grab, yu can vital strike the first attack and then get a free grapple for constrict damage. Is the vital strike still applying for the constrict? If it is a separate attack how did you vital strike in the first place?

That's the key. Constrict, in and of itself, is not an actual attack, even though it is refered to as an attack (it's more appropriately termed an ability in my opinion). Therefore, Vital Strike can't apply because Vital Strike only applies when you make a standard action to attack, and constrict is not making an attack. In this regard, it is very similar to Rend, which the creative director addressed here:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/archives/rendPowerAttack&page=1#9

Possessing the constrict ability means you deal damage whenever you make a successful grapple check against an opponent, regardless of what type of action you take with that grapple check. If you grapple, succeed, and choose to pin, you deal constrict damage due to the successful grapple check. As with Rend, it's additional damage stemming from meeting certain conditions, not it's own seperate form of attack.


Ah just found the answer

Final Embrace Master feat in ultimate combat specially doubles constrict damage and since it require 2 feat pre-reqs its fairly safe to assume that vital strike should not modify constrict.


Phasics wrote:
Constrict as a general rule uses your primary natural attack for damage. Could you thus apply vital strike modify constrict damage ?

Vital strike is a standard action, grapple is a standard action, they cannot be combined. If grapple was an attack action you could combine it with vital strike.


grasshopper_ea wrote:
Phasics wrote:
Constrict as a general rule uses your primary natural attack for damage. Could you thus apply vital strike modify constrict damage ?
Vital strike is a standard action, grapple is a standard action, they cannot be combined. If grapple was an attack action you could combine it with vital strike.

Standard action vital strike, free action grapple with grab, constrict does damage equal to your base attacks damage, so the question is wether vital strike modifies that damage or not.


Grab "Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. ..."
Grapple "...If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple). Move ... Damage ... Pin..."

So you cannot do damage with the Grapple in the first round and it is a standard action to maintain the grapple that allows 3 options while grappling.


Attack> free grapple check with grab> immidiate damage on successful check with constrict.


VS doesn`t change your natural attack damage, which is what constrict applies (unless specified otherwise).
VS gives you BONUS DAMAGE when you use a specific action (attack action).

You can take an attack action with a tentacle, and VS will apply to the normal damage for the attack.
If Grab is eligible to trigger, you then make a Grapple check (as a free action, i.e. distinct from the attack action), which if succesful may trigger Constrict, but Constrict is an extra effect that is not modified by VS, which only adds dmg to the damage roll resulting rom the attack action. Just because your attack action triggered another action (Grab) doesn`t carry over the VS damage to the bonus effect.

the fact that Constrict applies natural weapon damage is TOTALLY irrelavant, it is no different than you have a Feat giving you a free Trip attack in addition to your Attack action, and you have another Feat that does damage when you Trip.


"Constrict (Ex) A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack"

So the Constrict is additional damage done when certain conditions are met. It is not a primary attack action. You have done your Vital Strike with the attack that leads onto the Grab & Constrict.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

On a similar note, if somethign m odifies your natural attack damage, does it also modify your constrict damage? Take weapon specialization for an example.


Ravingdork wrote:
On a similar note, if somethign m odifies your natural attack damage, does it also modify your constrict damage? Take weapon specialization for an example.

It wouldn't affect the constrict damage; natural weapon damage and constrict damage are not necessarily the same (e.g. revenant).

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