I'll start out the discussion thread with something Keith brought up: What timezone are you all posting from?
I'm at Mountain Standard.
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I have a question about Trapper's weapons.
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The BB says that a dwarf knows how to use (BLOCK C):
battleaxes and warhammers no matter your class.
Then, the BB says a rogue should use(BLOCK E):
rapier, shortsword, shortbow
What Trapper has are:
Shortsword
Crossbow + bolts
Dagger
Light Mace
Question: Should I find a weapons shop and trade my mace and crossbow for a light war hammer and shortbow, respectively?
Since this is my first real Pathfinder game, I'd like to keep Trapper true to his Dwarven heritage.
Trapper
Since we haven't used any weapons yet, you can go ahead and change them on your character sheet.
Im in UK so quite different to all of you!!! Time when posting this is 19:22 on Tuesday.
South Central US here, so Central Time Zone. Any resolution on the question I posed on the other thread, about languages? How do they work in PFBB?
Best,
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South Central US here, so Central Time Zone. Any resolution on the question I posed on the other thread, about languages? How do they work in PFBB?
Best,
We're in the same neck of the woods.
I'm in the South, also.Regarding languages: no luck.
I looked through HH and GM Guide, and I don't see anything at all.
And that's weird, because I would've sworn I saw something about "Common" when I was generating my character.
South Central US here, so Central Time Zone. Any resolution on the question I posed on the other thread, about languages? How do they work in PFBB?
Best,
We're in the same neck of the woods.
I'm in the South, also.Regarding languages: no luck.
I looked through HH and GM Guide, and I don't see anything at all.And that's weird, because I would've sworn I saw something about "Common" when I was generating my character.
I didn't see any reference to languages in either book. I even opened my character back up in Hero Lab, but no mention of it their either. Not sure it is a "show stopper", it's just that the discussion of text formatting got me to thinking about it.
Louisiana here! And yes, the reality shows about hit the nail on the head!
Best,
TB
Ok, I hate to double post, but didn't want this to get lost in my previous post.
Is it standard fair to use Skills on other PCs? I mean, my face-to-face group does it too. When I DM, I don't allow it, thinking it should be role-played. Just wondering how common this is in later editions where skills seem to take center stage. Keep in mind I cut my teeth, and played almost exclusively until recently, older versions of the game where there are no skills.
Best,
TB
EDIT: After thinking about it, I can see where it might be necessary in this format, kinda. For example it could take days for Gozer to ask, and get answers, from Maya so that he could watch for inconsistencies, to catch her in a lie. IDK, thoughts?
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Yeah I wasn't too sure what to do so I went ahead and did it. If it needs to be retracted I have no problem doing it. That's one of the reasons I said sorry. But there are certain things Gozer would look for in companions. Also it will really come into play if Talberon lies to Gozer about being a magic user after he might do something that throws suspicion his way. I would feel that is where those checks come in. I am just trying not to metagame.
Which brings me to a question I had. I don't read the spoilers for anyone else but myself correct? Because I haven't, feeling I would not know that information as Gozer. Just a thought. Thanks
South Central US here, so Central Time Zone. Any resolution on the question I posed on the other thread, about languages? How do they work in PFBB?
The Beginner Box totally ignores languages, but I've already written it into the story, so I'll be assuming Elves, Dwarves, and any other intelligent race you come across have their own language. The people of Sandpoint speak Varisian. And there's the hugely convenient Common language. I'll invoke a house rule that your characters all speak their racial language and common or, if human, Varisian and Common. You also speak a number of bonus languages equal to your intelligence bonus.
Is it standard fair to use Skills on other PCs?
Yes, it is fair. Using a skill on another PC isn't necessarily a hostile act, but the other PC gets an opportunity to oppose the skill check if he/she wants to.
As for roleplaying vs. skills: At the table I don't expect all my players to be improv actors as well and I'll let them say something like "I try to Bluff my way past the gate guard." And I'll let them roll a skill check for it. But if they put some roleplay into it, "Look, you bone-headed sell-sword, I'm Lord Hienmitey and if you don't let me through, I'll call for your captain and have you hanging by your thumbs within the hour." they'll get a bonus on their die roll.
That's an Intimidate more than a Bluff, but you get the point.
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Is it standard fair to use Skills on other PCs?Yes, it is fair. Using a skill on another PC isn't necessarily a hostile act, but the other PC gets an opportunity to oppose the skill check if he/she wants to.
As for roleplaying vs. skills: At the table I don't expect all my players to be improv actors as well and I'll let them say something like "I try to Bluff my way past the gate guard." And I'll let them roll a skill check for it. But if they put some roleplay into it, "Look, you bone-headed sell-sword, I'm Lord Hienmitey and if you don't let me through, I'll call for your captain and have you hanging by your thumbs within the hour." they'll get a bonus on their die roll.
This is an example of how Skills are not quite "clicking" for me.
I understand that you'd use Climb to scale a wall, but how and why would you use a skill against another PC?
Well when Maya explains about the goblin raid or how many battles she has been in how do the other PC's really know the truth, because as far as im aware Gozer prefers people who are stronger and have good fighting prowess he might want to check to see if she was hiding something or telling the truth.
This is the same with the Talberon we don't know that he is a wizard yet so we could perform a skill check to attempt to find out then as Tippo said they could try to block this with a bluff.
You don't have to play like this, I guess it just depends on how you like playing in the end.
I don't think I explained that particularly well but that's how I think of it.
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Well when Maya explains about the goblin raid or how many battles she has been in how do the other PC's really know the truth, because as far as im aware Gozer prefers people who are stronger and have good fighting prowess he might want to check to see if she was hiding something or telling the truth.
This is the same with the Talberon we don't know that he is a wizard yet so we could perform a skill check to attempt to find out then as Tippo said they could try to block this with a bluff.
You don't have to play like this, I guess it just depends on how you like playing in the end.
I don't think I explained that particularly well but that's how I think of it.
I see what you mean.
That actually makes a lot of sense.This is the first time I've ever played an RPG with people I don't know.
It's interesting and fun.
This is the first time I have ever played as a PC in campaign's with my groups I've only been the GM. It's a little weird not knowing what's gunna happen.
I am really enjoying the PbP though because I can't predict what people will do so it's always like oh new post :P
The only problem is that I am on a completely different time to you so when you's are free to post the most im sleeping :)
South Central US here, so Central Time Zone. Any resolution on the question I posed on the other thread, about languages? How do they work in PFBB?The Beginner Box totally ignores languages, but I've already written it into the story, so I'll be assuming Elves, Dwarves, and any other intelligent race you come across have their own language. The people of Sandpoint speak Varisian. And there's the hugely convenient Common language. I'll invoke a house rule that your characters all speak their racial language and common or, if human, Varisian and Common. You also speak a number of bonus languages equal to your intelligence bonus.
Very good, thanks for clarifying that. So now I need to think of three languages to add to my character sheet... hmmm.
Well when Maya explains about the goblin raid or how many battles she has been in how do the other PC's really know the truth, because as far as im aware Gozer prefers people who are stronger and have good fighting prowess he might want to check to see if she was hiding something or telling the truth.
This is the same with the Talberon we don't know that he is a wizard yet so we could perform a skill check to attempt to find out then as Tippo said they could try to block this with a bluff.
You don't have to play like this, I guess it just depends on how you like playing in the end.
I don't think I explained that particularly well but that's how I think of it.
This makes a lot of sense to me, especially under the PbP medium. The only thing that could be argued, and I am not - arguing the point that is, is that by just throwing out a Skill Check, with no foundation, could be considered meta-gaming itself, UNLESS the character is truly a suspicious sort. And then, I would think, role-play would necessitate a response.
What I mean is, sure my description of being clumsy with the sword MIGHT justify a suspicious character, who knew what is was like to carry a sword thusly, to ask questions and such of my skill, but it should not alarm everyone, and I wouldn't think most would care enough to question it. I mean, it is flavor thus far, why wouldn't the casual observer just chalk it up to my characters age?
In the Maya example, Talberon might note his disbelief, should he have one, and call her on it once actions display counter to the claim. But, I can see Gozer wanting to know now too, if fighting prowess is what the character values. I might have thrown in some RP along with the Skill Check though to support the suspicious action. I guess I associate dice roles with some form of action. Does this make sense? It's early and I haven't had coffee yet.
Again, not arguing, I will gladly play however is decided - and by the responses, it appears decided. I only ask, and wish to discuss this particular use of rules further, because, as I said, I don't do it when I DM and come from a background of rules with a wholly different feel to them. (ie I am trying to learn here as we go, I may have identified a weakness in my DMing, which is good.)
Best,
PS - Bolden to distinguish between quoted text and my responses.
Yeah I agree that it should be role played to give it a bit more depth and as you say to stop meta-gaming.
Also just a thought, it might be a good idea for Tippo to role our initiative scores rather than all of us role them individually, then we can simply just move straight onto posting what we want to do when it is our turn.
This was just a thought to see how people felt about this.
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Which is one of the reasons I didn't outright make any checks or remarks as Gozer to Talberon's "fumbling" with the sword. It would make no sense for Gozer to automatically assume he is a magic user, Gozer probably will just start chalking it up to being an amateur unless something significant catches his eye. That is why he just settled his gaze on him to kind of size him up.
In the case of Maya, Gozer has said he would follow her as long as she shows him battle. She says she can fight even if Gozer is going for the battle making a sense motive check on her saying she has killed men and has fought before makes sense. He is not distrustful per say of people when he first meets them just guarded. He believes trust must be earned just as respect. At least to me. I may be wrong. Same holds true to the check about the Sandpoint Devil roll.
Meta-gaming is when a player takes outside information, such as me role playing Gozer knowing Talberon is a magic user without the character actually finding it out. It is the player using out of game information in game.
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By the way because type is much harder to read emotion in, I also didn't mean any of that to be an argument just what was going through Gozer's head. To me I thought that was roll playing it out to the point of Gozer using his intuition to make that check. Maybe I should have taken it a little further before I used the role.
@Varrian, I understood and I completely get where you (Gozer) is coming from now. I confess I didn't read backgrounds, wanting instead to learn of characters in game like I do with a FtF group. I am finding that this is harder to do within the confines of PbP. So, as you said, no argument taken or inferred either.
I suppose I would have figured out his demeanor over time if he kept checking Sense Motive for everyone, but that might have been hard to do in a PbP game I see. It would have been much easier in a FtF game though. But, the topic is a great learning experience for me, especially considering I now intend/want to start my own PbP PFBB game shortly =)
@Belethor, I agree. I think it might be a good idea as well if our Initiative scores are rolled in advance, whether by the DM or by us so when the Ogre burst forth, its Initiative could have been rolled and added in then, and an order pre-established. Good idea IMHO.
I would also suggest that we not wait for initiative order to post, realizing our actions will still happen in chronological order of Initiative rolls still though.
Best,
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Thanks Tal. This is my first pbp so I went ahead and read everyone's background to actually help make mine. :-) In a ftf I like finding out about peoples backgrounds through their characters. If you start that pbp I would be interested in joining if you want! Oh and I am not inferring that he is going to roll for everything just certain things. I don't want to play Gozer as always having to roll to figure out people. :-)
I am okay with Belethor's suggestion about the DM rolling our Init. for us. If it is okay with Tippo. I also think that may speed up combat and allow everyone to then post as their turn comes up. I don't know about the just posting and figuring it out later. It might be kind of confusing. There is something you may want to do but if something happens before your turn it may make that choice ineffective. Just my thoughts.
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Given what has been said above, then, is there a skill or feat or spell that allows one character to learn another character's class?
All I've ever played were FtF game with friends (and one failed PbP, also with friends), and those were all using 1E AD&D rules. As a result of 30+ years of using one system that was heavily weighted by house rules, the boundary between RPing and meta-gaming was blurred.
I appreciate this discussion. I am learning a lot very quickly.
Given what has been said above, then, is there a skill or feat or spell that allows one character to learn another character's class?
All I've ever played were FtF game with friends (and one failed PbP, also with friends), and those were all using 1E AD&D rules. As a result of 30+ years of using one system that was heavily weighted by house rules, the boundary between RPing and meta-gaming was blurred.
I appreciate this discussion. I am learning a lot very quickly.
Not that I recall... I would think that, at least in a FtF game, you would only have what is openly visible to your character and the proclamations of the targeted character to make an assessment on such things. But I could be mistaken. Again, 3.5 / PF is not my strong suite.
Best,
TB
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I have been playing 3.5 and PF for some time. There is no feat or skill that allows you to determine another's class. I don't believe anyway.
I would say for something like that it would be role played out. Such as a cleric introducing himself as a priest or cleric of "insert deity name here". I would say the closest thing would be knowledge checks of some sort relating to the field you are trying to uncover. For instance what deity symbol is that cleric wearing Knowledge (Religion).
Yet there are some classes that you would not be able to or the other person may not want you to know outright, such as rogues"thieves".
In Gozer's case he announced that he was a warrior which could mean fighter or barbarian. You could as a character probably discern he was a barbarian given his clothing, maybe. Or if rages at some point. Hope that helped a little.
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Keith, I've been wondering, why did you go from AD&D 1e to Pathfinder? I my self like both, started with Pathfinder but perfer AD&D(1e and 2e), but there's nothing like playing Pathfinder again
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Well, my crowd stuck with 1E over the years mostly out of laziness.But my DMing has been limited due to kids, work, and basically pretending to be a grownup.
On top of that, my old D&D crowd is now scattered to the four winds.
And, in addition, I lost a lot of 1E and 0E stuff over the years(original white box booklets, supplements, etc).
Since I'm a collector at heart anyway, I decided that re-collecting the old stuff would be the best way to "keep fresh", ironically.
In the course of collecting, a bunch of old school D&D types recommended Pathfinder.
So, I bought a couple of the AP booklets.
And the more I read, the more I liked it.
And there was something about Golarian in particular that I absolutely loved. It's probably due to the fact that I also collect H.P. Lovecraft.
It's nice to be a player again.
Like I said earlier, there is a certain satisfaction I get out of deciphering the a new rules system (it's kinda like a foreign language to me).
Thanks for asking,
Keith
P.S. I hate THAC0, too.
@Talberon: I wouldn't mind playing that if you ever fancied doing one as well I would really love to have a play of some different characters. Only if you didn't want completely new players of course.
The first and only game of this style that I have played is pathfinder (only since Christmas) so I guess I am a complete novice compared to everyone here. I only own the BB but working on getting the CRB some time :) Playing this with all of you guys and having Tippo GM is really helping sort rules out for me aswell.
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Hate THAC0? THAC0 is easier for me to use than D20, D20 has too many pluses and minuses, AD&D 1e has those tables, that's why I can't DM 1e with core rules combat.
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Yeah, I'd rather use a combat matrix, believe it or not.I always felt like I was "getting it wrong" using THAC0.
It's not rationale to dislike it ... I realize that.
Good lord I hated THAC0. And I have all my old 1st edition books on the shelf here even as I type.
Regarding Sense Motive checks. The BB rules describe it simply as a means of detecting lies and opposed by Bluff skills. My interpretation of it is a bit more expansive - I treat it as reading another character's body language and manner to see read their mood. I took Gozer's use of Sense Motive on Maya as an attempt to see how sincere and confident she was.
If you are trying to discern what a character's class is you can ask them, of course, or you can try a Perception check, which might reveal some details. For example, you might notice a character has spell components about his person, or she wears the symbol of some deity (Ben noted that Belethor had Gorum's holy symbol on him).
When we get through with this combat we'll have to discuss whether I roll initiative for you all or, as has been suggested, we use initiative at all. I'm learning PbP as we go along so I'm counting on changing things as circumstances warrant and I welcome your thoughts.
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That might be a good idea. I am getting a little lost about who is going with all of the posts. I am going by the PFC rules on actions. I assume they are the same as PFBB action rules. Be able to make a move action and a standard action or making a standard action then a move action, moving double your speed (two move actions) or a full round action. With free and swift actions thrown in.
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On another note I am going to start my own PbP (thanks for the idea Tal). If anyone is interested please PM me (will be using D&D3.5 modules but PFCR for rules). Thanks. ;-)
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.I'm too much of a novice (read: coward) to try another game at this point!
But if other PbP games are half as much fun as this one I will definitely be doing this indefinitely! :-)
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I've been reading some other PbP threads and noticed some players are putting their stats after their character's name.
I'm wondering if this could help us.
Doing this makes the post look something like this:
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Sylvia Plath (HP: 5 AC 11, F+0, R +1, W+2, Per:+2, Init: +1, Arrows: 20)
Sylvia wails like a banshee, unable to believe she just penned a tale of such malaise.
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lol I have given up on D&D. I have collected almost every D&D3.5 book there is. I think I am shy 2 or 3 original 3.5's and then about 12 Kingdom of Kalamar supplements and then a few ravenloft/eberron/dragonlance/darksun supplements.
But collection stands at almost 125 + books. Just in 3.5.
@ Keith if your interested there is a spot for you in my pbp. We are going extremely slow to begin with. If you're interested PM by tomorrow night. :-)
@ Keith: I am not too much for all that cluuter in my title. I can always have a seperate tab opened if I want to look at my stats.
I've been reading some other PbP threads and noticed some players are putting their stats after their character's name.
I'm wondering if this could help us.Doing this makes the post look something like this:
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Sylvia Plath (HP: 5 AC 11, F+0, R +1, W+2, Per:+2, Init: +1, Arrows: 20)Sylvia wails like a banshee, unable to believe she just penned a tale of such malaise.
It might help the DM. Not sure if/how characters are being tracked. There was mention of all characters being built in Hero Lab by the DM. I like it thought as a quick reference. Though not a big fan of what is included; ie. not too sure how prevalent saves are going to be, but HP, AC, Per, Init, etc. seems solid.
Best,
TB
Anyone downloaded the D&D 5e playtest rules yet? I only skimmed through, but hey look like a lite version of D20(Without Skills)
I downloaded 'em, skimmed them, and thought, 'Meh.' I do not see myself advancing past Pathfinder at this particular juncture in my life, thought my FtF group does play 4E, I haven't bought any books for it. But YMMV.
Best,
The Bane