Night of Frozen Shadows (GM Reference)


Jade Regent

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This might be a bit trivial, but I'm curious about something:

So after the Seal's been revealed, the bad guys are sure the Amatatsu heir will be heading north. Ok, but when Wodes is initially scouting south of Kalsgard, how does he recognize the party as his quarry? Why wouldn't he believe they're just another Varisian caravan traveling north? Does he recognize Ameiko somehow? Were convenient divinations performed by the oni's seers when they briefly detected the Seal's location in Brinewall?

It might not be something players would be concerned about, and obviously it can be handwaved away, but I'm wondering if there's an "offical" answer somewhere that I missed.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's not a huge amount of Tien people travelling around the Land of the Linnorm Kings, particularly coming from the direction that they would have sensed the Seal from. Maybe he sends the vikings to attack "just in case" and when the PCs wipe out the assault that galvanizes Wodes and his masters that this is the girl they are looking for. Just pure deductive reasoning.


Has anyone developed a "shopping list" for travel across the Crown of the World? I'd like to add this as a aspect of time in Kalsgard. Thanks!


Are all members of the Frozen Shadow under a blood geass?
I ask because my group captured one of the ninja alive from the pyreship last night and the first thing they're going to do is interrogate him next session.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I assume that yes, they are. Kimandatsu had enough time to use that Tetsubo on them all.

There was some incongruency in the application of the blood oath, however. The raiders who ambush the caravan at the beginning of the module all are under the blood oath, but Asvigs retainers and his wife are not. I'm not sure how exactly to justify this. My players luckily just didn't catch on to this. ^^

The Exchange

asvig's retainers might not because they aren't part of that job. The big group was put together for that purpose, and so they got tetsubo'd. But still, thats a lot of prep for the occasion (since the oath is a one a day, if I recall correctly)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chernobyl wrote:
asvig's retainers might not because they aren't part of that job. The big group was put together for that purpose, and so they got tetsubo'd. But still, thats a lot of prep for the occasion (since the oath is a one a day, if I recall correctly)

Actually, it can only be used once a day for a blood oath - there isn't an expiry date on the oath.


So, I'm running this now. Biggest problem my players have had so far was with kayaking. Since there were four characters and they needed a spare seat for Ulf, that meant three kayaks, two of them with only one rower.
"Make one DC 10 wisdom check. If both rowers fail, the kayak turns upside down. A DC 15 Strength check is required to right the boat before its occupants drown." The two solo paddlers failed the wisdom check, and then failed the Strength check. If I'd played the rules literally, half the group would have drowned. I decided to interpret this as meaning they could make a DC 15 Strength check every round until they drowned (once per point of CON, then Fort saves), which they made after eight or nine attempts.
They decided to swim back.


I would say your interpretation is correct. Drowning doesn't normally happen instantly unless the drowner is already at negative hit points, so it doesn't make sense that instant drowning would occur here.


Have any other groups unleashed the hellwasp swarm upon themselves?
My players were able to run away, slamming doors behind them to slow it down, and went out the back. They have nothing that can cause serious harm to it and they can't move faster than it in the open. They doubled back around it while it was devouring the corpses in the main hall and have made it down to the dungeon level. There are no living creatures left on the top floors apart from Lute Haggersly, still shut up in his cell.

So, what motivates a swarm of hellwasps? Would it seek vengeance upon its captor? Would it want to impersonate a human and infiltrate human society? Would it build a gigantic nest and start breeding?

Liberty's Edge

Matthew Downie wrote:
Have any other groups unleashed the hellwasp swarm upon themselves?

My group was terrified of it. Not only did they come nowhere close to releasing it, they were looking for ways to reinforce the cage.

That was fun to play. I'm not much of an "acting" GM, but I had a good time with the hellwasp zombie, and my portrayal genuinely creeped them out. (They managed to identify it eventually, but it took a while.)

The idea of the hellwasps "settling down" and beginning to breed is fascinating to me. Revisiting the Kalsgard environs years or decades later -- in another AP or module maybe -- and matter-of-factly describing how the Linnorn Kingdoms are under siege by the swarms would be really scary. Shades of Fiorina-161.


The barbarian led the way into the room. Seeing the glass case, he smashed it immediately to see what would happen, thinking maybe he'd get to fight some kind of ghoul or zombie.

I've been trying to work out what would happen if the players leave. There's no shortage of food for the swarm; months of provisions upstairs, and some trolls who'd be reduced to a coma by the poison stings, but who could regenerate from any other damage done.

Goti could do a lot of damage to it with his acidic Burning Hands spell but would probably wind up dead. Kimandatsu has only one Cone of Cold a day, but could escape with flight and invisibility. Omoyani and the others would be powerless.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I wonder how that conversation between Kimandatsu and Goti went when he came home with that thing.

Kimandatsu: Soooo, you just brought an abominable monster here which we are basically powerless to stop when it gets free and can destroy most of this organization?
Goti: Yeah, it's totally cool, nyehehehehe.
Kimandatsu: No bonus on your part of the loot this year.
Goti: Oh, maaaaaan!


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Goti: Don't worry, there's no way it could ever get free. I've put it in a case with Hardness: 1, Hit Points: 1, Break DC: 5. Somebody with a strength of 2 would have at least a 40% chance of failing to open it first time. As long as the ravens don't start pecking at it, and the trolls don't brush past it on their way out, we'll be fine.


I know this might have been asked earlier in this thread but as my group just hit Kalsgard last game, I need to ask it again.

The party brought the knarr back to kalsgard putting them at 10NP right away. Now the thing is only 2 of them handled the returning of the ship and the selling it back to the Rimerunners Guild, While the rest of the party went to the Bone Quarter and set up camp and then split up to handle personal things about the city. The group called it a night with the party scatter across the city on their first day in Kalsgard. Now my question is how do I handle the event/ events when the party splits up, and how do I get them to the next event as the Anonymous Threat event doesn't give the party a NP?


Events should happen whenever it makes sense for them to happen, like when the party is on their way to or from somewhere, or when they're making diplomacy rolls to find out information. Most of them will still work if the group is split up, except for some of the battles which would become unreasonably dangerous.

Uthak wrote:
...how do I get them to the next event as the Anonymous Threat event doesn't give the party a NP?

The events aren't supposed to all be triggered by NP from the previous events. The party is meant to be searching for Suishen and finding a guide (or investigating the people who attacked them - it all leads to the same place). The process of searching will earn them extra NP, triggering further events. You can give additional NP for anything they do that would attract attention - for example, opening the Warding Box, or announcing to everyone that they're going to rule Minkai.

My group didn't earn too many NP early on. They gained a few when they robbed the Rimerunner's guild, but then they left town immediately to head for Ravenscraeg, giving me no good opportunity to run the next few events. But that's OK because the main plot can continue without them.


Ok, So my players never managed to kill

:
Kikonu
in brine wall castle. I was going to have him infiltrate the caravan, but chose not to do that. Instead i was thinking of having him pop up in the guise of a wizard doing the enchanting on an item that one of the PC's is trying to have made for himself.

:
My thought is to have him give the player a cursed version of the item, as repayment for ruining his play at brine wall. Then show up at Ravenscraeg, or some other point in the book.

Am I out of line in this thinking?

Liberty's Edge

Uthak wrote:
Am I out of line in this thinking?

Only if by "out of line" you mean "genius." Make it a nasty curse, too.


Ok so my PC's have fumbled there way through the search for the sword & I have had to just force certain events on them. Does it get easier?

On another note the PC's that wanted the Greater Hat of Disguise took care of that so that seed has been planted.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, um, I don't righly know what you mean by "does it get easier"? If your players are not very assertive or don't take their time to search rooms, of course they are going to miss stuff.

Missing Suishen, however, is really hard work. ^^


magnuskn wrote:
Missing Suishen, however, is really hard work.

Well, if you didn't pick up Helgarval, or weren't willing to break into the Rimerunner's Guild, you might have trouble getting to Ravenscraeg.

And even in Ravenscraeg, there's a point where you can go left or right, and one way eventually leads you to the boss, and the other way takes you quickly to Suishen. My group saw that the Suishen route lay across a pool of water, and decided to go the other way because they were afraid of underwater blob monsters. Fortunately they didn't spot the next secret door (I decided not to mention the rock dust on the floor) and retraced their steps.

As for 'does it get easier'? It gets a lot easier for the players in the next book because there's not much detective work, just a long journey full of random encounters. Not any easier for the GM, though, since the Hungry Storm needs some work done if you want it to be any good.


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Following up from the wasp swarm bit...
The group had defeated Kimandatsu, befriended Skygni and rescued Ulf and Ukshaka (No Ameiko; they'd done it too fast for her to be kidnapped).

On the way out, they stopped to pick up Lute Haggersly, who was now dead and full of wasps. I decided that the wasp entitity (a) could speak Common (all villains should learn Common so they can taunt the PCs), (b) thought the PCs had been sent to rescue him by 'Azzmodeuzz' as an answer to his prayers, and (c) wanted them to take him to 'the human hive of Kalzzgard' so he could take over the body of the Linnorm King.

They had to get him past the city's gate guards, finding ways to explain away his bizarre behavior
(Guard: "What's your business in town?"
Wasp entity: "I dezzire to devour all!"
PC: "He's a foreign gourmet.") until they could get to a magic shop and buy the items they needed to be able to defeat him.


We're half a game session away from finishing the adventure. They only need to do the lower levels of Ravenscraeg to move forward.

Stuff my players did:
- Got the message that the wasps were bad news, but concocted a timed release trap with a rope and burning candle to smash the glass once they were out returning Lute Haggersly. They got indirect XPs just for that, and pissing off lots of people in the hall.
- Coming back several days later, prepared for an oni, they went through four nearly back-to-back battles. Tengu ninjas on the wooden stairs, tons-o-thugs in the main hall, raven swarms and finally Frozen Shadow ninjas. All of the reinforcements!
- The fighter brought some nut shells to throw on the ground to prevent invisible sneak attacks. Sadly, as soon as he tried it, they went crack all around them at the same time.
- After doing the kitchen, they thought to themselves: "We got bread, we got plenty of poison from those tengu ninjas, and we know birds like bread crumbs." I think they've had their dose of swarms.
- After battling Wodes upper levels (and deciding *not* to push their luck with the final roost that had Hitchcock's Birds feel to it), our cleric-monk went back to the middle of the hall and cast Locate Object to figure out if Suishen was nearby or not. It was! (They had a clear enough vision in Brinewall to be familiar with it).

They've leveled up (now 7th) and are ready for the basement. And Wodes is still alive (with several less spells) as a backup reinforcement.


Ok, So last game my player headed out to Asvig's farm. First they got the snot kicked out of the as they triggered the Animal posts (2 different ones), they stopped to check them out but made all the wrong skill checks to figure out what they where and the Ranger never made a perception check to check the surrounding area. When they arrived at the homestead Asvig was in the middle of getting ready for the nights activities(That's right they went during the day), so he told them to leave as he was not going to discuss anything with them this day or the next. The party then chose to leave(upon seeing how many people they might have to fight), but when they found out why he was having the festivities the party chose to wait till after the funeral pier to go back and talk to him(the voice in my head was screaming at this point). When the fog delayed the pier they figured that it would also cover their travel back to the farm and that all the people would be at the pier(again voice screaming).

My problem seem to be that the player ether lack the skills or enough ranks in the skills required to do any of the investigations in this part of the AP I literally had to give them Asvig's name just so they would go there as they never brought up the river attack to Fynn and then spent a ton of time looking around the Jade quarter for a 6ft tall Tian man.

Do I need to me more lead them by the nose and say "now this is where you make a know. Aracna check" & when they tell me that they are looking around should I say "give me a perception check". I figured that as most of the player in this groups are veterans from the old AD&D 2ed days that I was beyond that. Or should I just let them continue to bang pots together so that they move from one encounter to the next which should result in a TPK as is they do that enough they should meet the BBEG of the book and die.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

That's frustrating. There are some things you can try:

Change some of the noteriety encounters to provide more clues - they flail around randomly for a bit, attract a little more attention, and the reaction gives them a little more to go on.

Knowledge/Intelligence/Perception checks to notice important facts, draw connections, recognize people or items they wouldn't necessarily otherwise understand.

Allow the big bad guy to take them and force them to swear blood geas or die - then add on adventure for them to take on the big baddy or betray her somehow to free themselves from the blood geas. Heck, even have them released as her spies against both Ameiko and the other oni - she wants to take control back in Minkai - and see what they do to lead her astray, betray her, or help her!

Have fun with it. :)


Yes, leading oblivious players is without them realizing is... well, its an art that takes some practice.

A good technique I find is asking them a few questions about what they're doing, with the 'correct' course of action being one of the questions.

"So, you guys have talked to Fyn for a while. Do you have any other questions for him? Interested in seeing if he wants to invest in a trading caravan going accross the crown of the world? Mentioning the people who attacked you on the way to Kalsgard? Ask him if he's knows anything about Suishen's abilitys?"

It gives an option to remind them of something they've forgotten, and it's technically not railroading the plot because they can always say no (In which case... you just sort've have to wing it)

It's also worth mentioning, when players are trying to use real world knowledge and common sense that doesn't translate to what's happening within the game (Quite frankly it does make sense for us to have the 'wake' after the funeral, and to attend the funeral and what not, not party beforehand as what happens in the module), to make them roll some low DC knowledge checks, or just feed them some information.

"Snorri Stone-Eye was a leader with many ring-givers underneath him. The funeral itself will probably only be attended by the most loyal and long serving of his men. As far as you know, Asvig is not in this high tier, he will probably have a private party beforehand, only for him and his men, and not attend the funeral."

Shadow Lodge

Some of it is memory, too. I gave out "clue cards," every time they triggered an event, that summed up the info they had gathered. The players held onto the business cards in between sessions and started every session by comparing notes again (as the party talked over dinner). This way, they never lost track in between sessions, and they could help each other finish up missions. (As an added bonus, the cards had the skills and DCs for me, to make it easier to nudge them towards the check.)

It also helps to throw in extra npc contacts. My group had Fynn, but also had a helpful tengu acrobat that dropped hits about the thieves guild.


Uthak wrote:
Do I need to me more lead them by the nose and say "now this is where you make a know. Aracna check" & when they tell me that they are looking around should I say "give me a perception check". I figured that as most of the player in this groups are veterans from the old AD&D 2ed days that I was beyond that.

I wouldn't normally expect players to make skill checks unless asked to by the GM.

"I examine the post."
"It's covered in strange runes. Make a Knowledge: Arcana roll."
"12."
"You don't know what they are."
(Or the GM could make the roll in secret so the players don't learn that they are something Arcane.)

Otherwise you have the situation of people looking at some runes and randomly saying, "I roll Spellcraft." "I make a Perception check." "I use Use Magic Device." "I Linguistics it." "It might be a trap so I Disable Device." "I Appraise everything."


I have run groups before where I said "perception check" and I came to the conclusion that about 85% of the time it was a dead give away to the players that some thing was up or about to happen. My general house rule is that if your going to make a skill check I need to know what the character is try to get out of it....they just can't stand in the doorway of a room and make a perception check and expect to find a hidden note a the desk or in between 2 books on a book self.

this rule has eased up one one of the player always rolling a sense motive check against every NPC the party meets.

My real problem is that the characters lack the skill or enough ranks in a skill to make the DC's in this part of the AP, not to mention the fact that the players themselves stated that they have resided to the fact that the party is made up of a bunch of characters with high intelligence(15's-17's) & low wisdom(10'-12's)...then half the party has charisma in the single digits(7's-8's) so they have just decided to go kicking in doors till they get a result they like.

What I'm I to do


If diplomacy checks are the problem, they could use one of the friendly NPCs from the caravan to make the checks for them.

Where are they now? There are several possible places to get stuck. You have to find Aasvig, then that leads you to Snorri's funeral barge, where you find Helgarval, who tells you to go to the Rimerunner's guild, which tells you about Ravenscraeg.

There are at least three ways to progress:
1 Follow Suishen.
2 Look for a guide and have Uhkshaka guide the PCs towards Ulf.
3 Attract the wrong kind of attention, gather notoriety points, and eventually get attacked by assassins who carry notes in their pockets telling the PCs where to go.

If the players fail at the first two, try option 3.


Uthak wrote:
My real problem is that the characters lack the skill or enough ranks in a skill to make the DC's in this part of the AP, not to mention the fact that the players themselves stated that they have resided to the fact that the party is made up of a bunch of characters with high intelligence(15's-17's) & low wisdom(10'-12's)...then half the party has charisma in the single digits(7's-8's) so they have just decided to go kicking in doors till they get a result they like.

If they want to play like thugs, then punish them like thugs.

They're going to set off all the alarm bells and attract all the attention. They're going to get to fight just about everything.

Some people WANT that style of game. Others deserve it. It sounds like your group fits at least one of those two descriptions.


Double checking- There's only supposed to be a single ninja with Kimandatsu, with (4) being a typo, right?


As always, there are as many as the GM wants there to be.

It didn't occur to me that it might be a typo (the 'XP 600 each' is consistent with there being more than one), but looking back at the tactics text, it does imply there's only one.

When I ran it, Kim sent one of the four ninja off to release Skygni in the hope that he'd attack the PCs. Skygni ate the ninja. Two of the ninja died very quickly. The last one survived the opening of the battle and spent the combat harassing the party's life oracle while most of the PCs were fighting Kimandatsu (and doing rather badly - she kept rolling natural 20s).


So I need a little help. The group I'm running decided to do Asvig's farm after doing the Funeral ship & after the shrine of Shelyn. One of the Ninja had gotten away from the ship, but they left 2 Ninja bodies behind as the party was in really bad shape. I played that Asvig was upset that the ship was set ablaze before the intended hour & that his men had found the bodies of looters at the site. But the party made the choice to go to his farm and return the arm-rings of the men he sent to attack them at the bridge & the jade falcons off the ninjas in hopes that he would be willing to talk with them. Will a fight broke out and Asvig died, his wife & men at the house subdued...we had to stop game at that point with next game more than likely being the 20 questions phase. Now one of my players found out that his father had been a Red Mantis Assassin before becoming a horse rancher, and he has just been in formed that the Five storms killed his family(failure to kill Kikonu in book 1). I was thinking of having Helva(Asvig's wife)hire a Red Mantis cell in Kalsgard to kill the party as pay back for killing her husband. Is this to much? If not thoughts as to how to play the first strike of the Assassin's.


The existence of a red mantis cell in Kalsgard strikes me as unusual. Kalsgard is known for it's particular lack of a criminal underworld, the Frozen Shadows is the only real exception to this and they've had years to become established and quite frankly their goals have always been to protect the path of Aganhei from the return of the amatatsu family as opposed to becoming a huge undergroun powerhouse (that is just the side effect of Oni ambitions).

Instead it might just be better to view their release of Helva as a huge NP increase, assuming that she runs to the frozen shadows to seek revenge on Asvig. There is an assasination attempt event afterall.

Alternatively, if you wanted to make an extra encounter, it's possible that Helva has some older brothers or something that are willing to declare blood fued on the PCs for Asvig's death. This could be a very intersting route because a very public and damaging blood fued could even get some political figures involved and showcase some of the cultural aspects of the Ulfen people.


Hi, does anyone have an idea what the real estate market in the Kalsgard area, my pcs want to sell Ravenscraeg.


Ravenscraeg is still owned by the Rimrunners guild even after kimandatsu is defeated. There is no reason to think the PCs get automatic control or ownership of it. They could possible occupy it and basically ransom (or wereguild) it back to the guild, but I think the guild would either play a waiting game, or put together an invasion force of its own to take back the keep. Or sell it at a fire sale price to someone who wants it more and is more capable of tossing the PCs out. Lets see how they react when they're told that they are now squatting on the property of the Linnorm King and to get out or face the wrath of his army.


...though since Ravenscraeg was a secret base they might get away with it - did the players steal the propety deed from the Rimerunners? Of course, whoever they sold it to would probably get murdered by ninjas.


They did get the deed and liquidated the Rimerunner's guild and the Ravenscraeig enemies. My players are pretty crafty and ruthless.


I kinda searched and found no relevant question or answer.
Quick one:
In the Rimerunner's guild the pcs find the iron strongbox that have the documents inside. Within the book says only the DC to disable the lock and it's kinda high so my party will have no chance for that and they will try to break it. Will they be able? If yes, what are its stats?

Paizo Employee Developer

leo1925 wrote:

I kinda searched and found no relevant question or answer.

Quick one:
In the Rimerunner's guild the pcs find the iron strongbox that have the documents inside. Within the book says only the DC to disable the lock and it's kinda high so my party will have no chance for that and they will try to break it. Will they be able? If yes, what are its stats?

Page 175 of the Core Rulebook has the DCs for breaking objects. The closest fit is a treasure chest, but that's a wooden one, so I would just increase its hardness to 10 for the iron strongbox, giving you hardness 10, hp 15, Break DC 23. Eventually, they should be able to get it open, even if they have to destroy it to do so!


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I am running Jade Reagent for 2 different groups. its really interesting the different ways different groups play the same basic scenario.

Quote:
Missing Suishen, however, is really hard work. ^^

with one group we had a great time finding suisen. I even tossed in a little extra creating reactions when the magus picked up suisen while holding his black blade.

with the other goup I literally had to stop the game the game and say You guys need to get that... its kind of important.

first they refused to go that direction focusing entirely on the trolls.
---so i pretty much made that encounter a stand off untill they decided to explore the other passage as a possible work around.

Second they entered suisens room and noticed the flame coming from the well, one person looked down and saw (a burning stick or bar wedged in the well. one even cast detect magic and saw "an extremely brilliant aura"

...... they shrugged their shoulders and walked away....

I said, "as your walking away the flaming grows brighter as if trying to get your attention"

they continued to leave

I said, OMG what are you guys doing? seriously, thats suisen, its the reason your here."

they then began to complain about how I should be more clear about what they need to focus on.

I would laugh but we have had a similar argument in every single book.

this is the same group that after speaking to Ukshalla in the bar wandered around for the rest of the session. at the end of the day they were like... so what are we supposed to be doing?

i said "dont you guys need basically a guide and the sword?"

"Yea"

"and didnt you speak to the woman in the bar who asked you to help save her boss the great guide, Ulf"

"yes, but we thought she was just some whore"

.....

I had to just walk away.


blue_the_wolf wrote:

I am running Jade Reagent for 2 different groups. its really interesting the different ways different groups play the same basic scenario.

Quote:
Missing Suishen, however, is really hard work. ^^

with one group we had a great time finding suisen. I even tossed in a little extra creating reactions when the magus picked up suisen while holding his black blade.

with the other goup I literally had to stop the game the game and say You guys need to get that... its kind of important.

first they refused to go that direction focusing entirely on the trolls.
---so i pretty much made that encounter a stand off untill they decided to explore the other passage as a possible work around.

Second they entered suisens room and noticed the flame coming from the well, one person looked down and saw (a burning stick or bar wedged in the well. one even cast detect magic and saw "an extremely brilliant aura"

...... they shrugged their shoulders and walked away....

I said, "as your walking away the flaming grows brighter as if trying to get your attention"

they continued to leave

I said, OMG what are you guys doing? seriously, thats suisen, its the reason your here."

they then began to complain about how I should be more clear about what they need to focus on.

I would laugh but we have had a similar argument in every single book.

this is the same group that after speaking to Ukshalla in the bar wandered around for the rest of the session. at the end of the day they were like... so what are we supposed to be doing?

i said "dont you guys need basically a guide and the sword?"

"Yea"

"and didnt you speak to the woman in the bar who asked you to help save her boss the great guide, Ulf"

"yes, but we thought she was just some whore"

.....

I had to just walk away.

Glad to see I'm not the only one facing this kinda thing with the groups I run.


Ok, so I'm here again looking for help with some ideas. the group I'm running through this AP decided after getting their hats handed to them by Jorgan in C16 along with the Tengu ninja & Wodes from C19&20, to "camp" and rest up in C16 inside Ravenscrag!!!!

Now Wodes left the fight to warn the rest of Ravenscrag & he had time to send messanger ravens to call reinforcements.

So just how badly should I punish the players for making an EPIC bad move like camping inside an enemy fort?


My group camped inside the dungeon from book 4. I just looked at the nearest encounters and had a couple of patrols attack them in the night. A regular battle which starts with half the PCs asleep & low on spells is hard enough.


My thing is I dont want the fort to seem static like so many other dungeons seem to be written. Yet I don't want to TPK the group which I could do as they are "camping" inside the major bad guys home with the BBEG & her 2 major sub bosses still alive.

Should they be rewarded for being that STUPID.


Not punishing someone harshly is not the same as rewarding them...

You could have a single scout stumble upon them, and then role-play that character realistically. So a perception check to spot the scout, and the scout then retreats to call for backup, and the PCs have to respond by fleeing or chasing down the scout.

Or you could say, "Make a DC 5 intelligence roll. You passed? You realize that sleeping in a ninja-infested castle is suicidal, especially when you could easily walk into the nearby forest and sleep there."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The point here is that Ravenskraeg is not really big. It's a longhouse with two tiers of cellar beneath it. Unless the bad guys don't move at all in their rooms, they should discover that their stronghold has been invaded in the ten hours or so the party needs to rest up and regain spells. And that's bad for the party. I really must support Uthaks position here that the bad guys need to behave in a realistic manner.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

FINISH THEM!!!!!!!
just kidding no idea what to do:) i agree with magnuskn and uthak tho, it should definitely feel more alive then an abandoned tower or what not. punish them, they do have the seal and are close to rather large city with goodly priest that could raise dead and restore and your party learned a valuable lesson about camping out in an enemy stronghold with enemies still very much alive.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Uthak wrote:
Should they be rewarded for being that STUPID.[?]

My party's in deep trouble, too...

It was quite a long time since they went up with an "impressively" good plan. But now they did with invading Ravenscraeg: Four of the party's members put on the ninja garb they looted previously and took the jade raven statues as tokens in case they had to show a kind of "parole". The two remaining members were made invisible.

All six PCs went up the wooden stairs up to the landing with the spider eater. Than some crank thing happened: The witch (whose player had a really bad day) took one of her pellet grenades and threw it at the monster. The delayed onset time of 1d3 rounds led the rogue/barbarian to grab the grenade and throw it into the nest. A "nice" loud exlposion destroyed the nest -- and alerted the whole keep!

Now they have to fight all inhabitants (and a recurring Asvig and Helva Longthews) at once because, as a GM, I don't like static enemy responses on all too stupid player behavior.

I've to remind me to not be too eager to kill the PCs to avert an impending TPK.

*sigh*

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