Night of Frozen Shadows (GM Reference)


Jade Regent

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One thing I've just noticed that seems as though the AP contradicts itself.

Ravenscraeg on Alert (on page 32) says that of the 8 thugs from area C7, two move to area C6 to support Jorgan, and the other six move to area C8. However under Development in area C3 it states that surviving thugs from areas C7 and C11, as well as reinforcements move out here if the PCs leave and come back.

According to this the C7 thugs are supposed to be in two places at once. I'm guessing the fact that they were said to move to C6 and C8 was overlooked, and that the Ravenscraeg on Alert way is probably what I should run, rather than the C3 development way, which would have my players returning to find 20 thugs waiting for them on the landing after only one day away. It seems like a bit much.

Should the thugs hurling rocks from the landing only be from the reinforcements and the surviving C11 ones, with the C7 ones inside as detailed under Ravenscraeg on Alert? That seems to me like a more reasonable approach than having almost more thugs than the landing can hold flinging rocks down at the PCs.


Nobody? I had to run it by my best guess, and I suppose it went okay, but I'd still appreciate feedback on how Ravenscraeg's forces are actually meant to be set up when on alert. Especially those thugs.

Dark Archive

Gluttony wrote:
According to this the C7 thugs are supposed to be in two places at once. I'm guessing the fact that they were said to move to C6 and C8 was overlooked, and that the Ravenscraeg on Alert way is probably what I should run, rather than the C3 development way, which would have my players returning to find 20 thugs waiting for them on the landing after only one day away. It seems like a bit much.

In my opinion this is exactly the way it's supposed to be - when the PCs penetrate Ravenscraegs defences and the alarm is raised all defenders on the Cliff Level act as outlined in "Ravenscreag on alert" then moving to C3 to guard the area for the PCs return in case they retreat. Having them wait in their rooms kicking one's heels would not only be grossly negligent from their leaders but plain stupid.

Paizo Employee Creative Director, Starfinder

Gluttony wrote:

One thing I've just noticed that seems as though the AP contradicts itself.

Ravenscraeg on Alert (on page 32) says that of the 8 thugs from area C7, two move to area C6 to support Jorgan, and the other six move to area C8. However under Development in area C3 it states that surviving thugs from areas C7 and C11, as well as reinforcements move out here if the PCs leave and come back.

According to this the C7 thugs are supposed to be in two places at once. I'm guessing the fact that they were said to move to C6 and C8 was overlooked, and that the Ravenscraeg on Alert way is probably what I should run, rather than the C3 development way, which would have my players returning to find 20 thugs waiting for them on the landing after only one day away. It seems like a bit much.

Should the thugs hurling rocks from the landing only be from the reinforcements and the surviving C11 ones, with the C7 ones inside as detailed under Ravenscraeg on Alert? That seems to me like a more reasonable approach than having almost more thugs than the landing can hold flinging rocks down at the PCs.

The "Ravenscraeg on Alert" sidebar details the movement of forces within the fortress once they have been alerted to the PCs' presence inside Ravenscraeg. If the PCs then leave Ravenscraeg, the thugs and other reinforcements gather at area C3, as described in that section, to keep the PCs from reentering the fortress.


Ah okay, I had them move to on alert positions when the PCs returned for their second attempt at assaulting the fortress, and kind of combined the two to decide where everyone was positioned. Fortunately they summoned elementals that tore through much of the (substantial) thug and ninja defences as the PCs were making their way up. By the time Jorgan had emerged to cleared out most of the elementals, almost all of the thugs and ninjas had been killed. So the fight against Jorgan was a somewhat even one.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

My party threw me a curveball last night. They busted into Ravenscraeg and killed the 3 ninjas at C3, the 4 ninjas at C6, and the 12 thugs at C7+C11. They rescued the merchant at C14 but have not gone down or up yet. they want to rest INSIDE the fortress.

Their plan is to hid inside the food store-room and weather out the night (resting to get spells and such back). Their theory is that they made a decent ruckus and no one has bothered them yet; and they have a few invisibility spells left if someone comes searching for them (mix in some Survival to kill tracks and Prestidigitation/Mending to clean things up and they think they've committed the "perfect crime").

The reality is (in reading the mod), the only LIVING people in the building are three more ninjas in the tower (who will soon realize their buddies at C3 are gone) and the werebear captain (who will likely do some kind of rounds in a few hours and wonder where all the thugs are). The Werebear has Scent - so he WILL find them (Ranger levels not withstanding), but that doesn't mean he will survive the experience to warn others (and he's AFRAID of going downstairs!)

However, I suspect they will easily dispatch the Captain and the Ninjas (especially if they deal with them separately). Then there's nothing to stop them resting! Who is going to notice? The only possibility is that Gotti comes upstairs to work in his lab (and even then, the PCs have left the lab undisturbed). They even convinced (DC 30 Diplomacy) the prisoner to stay in his cell and act like nothing happened!

I guess what I'm saying is that unless Gotti goes looking for thugs to make him a sandwich, or Wodes comes down to look for Gottie, no one is going to know what's going on upstairs! I think my group may have stumbled on a hillariously effective strategy.

Any thoughts or comments?


grandpoobah wrote:

Snip.

Any thoughts or comments?

My group considered doing that on their third trip into the fortress, but at that point had already caught on to the pattern of reinforcements coming each morning, and opted not to get themselves sandwiched between enemies in both directions.

Some of the things I might do to a group that slept in the fortress are:

a) Exactly what my players suspected might happen. The next morning they're attacked from both directions. Enemies coming up from the dungeon levels on one side, and the arriving thug and ninja reinforcements on the other side. Bonus for you if they slept on one of the days that tengu and monk reinforcements come as well, or even a troll or two. Fighting two trolls in the main hall of the fortress would be interesting, and rather different than fighting trolls in the cramped dungeon.

b) Jorgan gets reinforcements. Okay, so you say you're running Jorgan as scared of going down into the dungeon levels, but what about the other direction? It sounds like Wodes is still alive. Nothing like raven swarms, summoned air elementals, and an awakened raven druid with the physical power of a wearbear backing them up. Wodes and Jorgan go well together in a fight, each providing something that can be exploited against the other (Jorgan's lack of magic, and Wodes' lack of muscle respectively). They would also certainly have all pre-battle spells cast beforehand too (no chance of surprising them) and might even wait for the reinforcements to arrive, to further bolster their numbers and give some additional physical backup beyond just Jorgan.

c) Reinforcements arrive... Before they're ready. Whether I'd throw this one at them depends on the party, and the situation, but you could have the Frozen Shadows reinforcements show up before the casters have readied/refreshed their daily spells. Sure everyone gained some HP from resting, but they'll be fighting with only what's left of yesterday's magic. Of course they should definitely be allowed to finish spell prep after the fight is done. Doing something like this would be a nice opportunity for melee characters to shine if the casters have been getting the spotlight lately.

Dark Archive

There are a lot of great dialog on this thread. Thanks everyone for contributing! I'm running this adventure right now and it's nice to get some perspective.

Dark Archive

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Last session, my players freed Lute Haggersly (the merchant). Lute was a big foreshadow on my part. I had them run into Lute back on the road near Brinestump Marsh. He agreed to travel with them north just as long as they're aware that his final destination was Kalsgard due to the fact that he had just been elected into the Rimerunner's Guild board of shareholders.

I played him up as a morbidly obese merchant of "finer taste" that had a penchant for "pretty young things"...especially boys as the parties' young ranger found out through traveling with him. He was friendly enough but had his gluttonous and lustful habits clearly rule his life.

When the PCs got to Brinewall, Lute commandeered one of the caravan wagons leaving monetary compensation in it's place. His intention was to make for Kalsgard and NOT wait around for these "glory-seeking adventurers".

Now the PCs are in Kalsgard. They try to locate Lute....he is after all a merchant contact that they have. Sadly, they cannot find him. No one can find him. Fast forward to Ravenscraeg.

They find Lute in his cell as written--a starved, strechmark-ridden shell of his former self. Even my player who plays the male ranger (victim of many sexual passes by the corpulent merchant) felt horrible for Lute.

I felt the need to share this because, well, you know. Foreshadow.....GOOOOD.


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Nice one, William!! I'll use it on my adventure just as you described. I'm sure it will make a big impression on my players, too. This is the stuff that makes gamemastering worth.


Man, I wish I could come up with cool stuff like that sometimes :s Great story William, thanks for sharing.

The Exchange

Found a minor misprint on page 39
Enemies in C11 are referenced as being listed on page 25, when in fact they are on page 37. I believe it is a copy and paste error from the enemy entry on page 38, which also references page 25 (correctly).

The Exchange

Had our second session of book 2 last week. The group elected to avoid traveling with the Avril's Hammer and selling it in Kalsgard, and instead opted to sell it where they already were - Losthome. Do they gain any NP or how much do people recommend for this? I was thinging of have the same amount of NP but it may take a while for this word to get back to Kalsgard, and thus a sudden escalation of NP maybe 2 or 3 days after they arrive. They also went to the farm on day 2, with no information about Ulf. And still wiped the floor with the baddies.


Your "delayed NP" idea sounds as though it'd be suitable for the sale of Avril's Hammer.

As for the second part, not sure if you're just telling of what's happened or if you're asking what to do about Ulf now. Assuming the latter, I'd have his sister approach them, having seen them heading out towards the farm, ask if they found Ulf, mention that he's an experienced guide on the northern routes. Should give them enough incentive to track him down. And you can simply have her direct them to the funeral boat rather than have someone at the farm do it (simply make it so that the "he'll soon be joining Snorri Stone-eye" comment was said to her when she got thrown off the farm, rather than to the PCs, raising her suspicions and giving her enough knowledge to point them to their next target).


any ideas on how i should run this would be much apprciated

My Players have dillied and dallied in game and it's now 3 in the morning and they are walking up to the front door of asvig's farm, expecting to have to kick open the door and face a fight, with the alert guards and as they wake up the party goers (whats a large party 24 more party animals(so 40 ordinary ulfen warriors plus asvig and wife)

now sometimes when i've drunk alot i wake up and need to be sick (nauseated) , sometimes i can function (sickened) and sometimes i'm as fit as a fiddle, so whats the fort save to avoid being sickedned for a viking who probably drinks more than i can?, or to avoid being nauseated, should these be on 1 roll or should it be 2 rolls, ie 19+ fine 12+ sickened and 11 or under nauseated, or 2 dc 15 rolls pass 2 fine pass 1 sickened fail both nauseated?

now given normal sleeping and perception checks, battle is dc0 sleeping imposes a dc 10 penalty, and by convention giving someone a kick to give them a +10 modifiyer is a free action once per round (ie you can only try and wake one person but your not subtle about it) if the sleeper is sickened then the dc will mean this is not automatic so do i need to check for each warrior in the farm (before the session)?

now i could just say well the vikings are all too drunk to do anything (boring and no challenge therefore no combat xp(maybe some story xp)

i could say those on watch have seen you and started to wake their fellows (and see how many of their fellows are affected by drink as per the above)

asvig will be woken by a guard when the door is opened and i'm thinking will have a chain shirt (light armour as opposed to medium) for bed time (after all no land is entirly safe) and a potion of sheild cl10) for combat purposes

any advice / suggestions for this welcome


If I recall correctly the party lasts through the night, and a second group of party-goers arrives halfway though.

What I would do: Simply change all the original combatants and the farm to be drunk, asleep, or both, but otherwise using their stats as-written and then double their number with the second group varying between drunk and sober.

The PCs will likely get beaten up, but that's life. If they lose, they get thrown out, perhaps learn of the funeral boat in the process (just deliver the "Ulf will be joining Snorri Stone-eye line when they get thrown out), and Asvig and Helva might be used as recurring villains.

They can encounter Asvig and Helva again on the way there, having been coerced by Kimandatsu into keeping the PCs from reaching Ravescraeg (with a challenge-appropriate number of warriors accompanying them of course). Might even be more satusfying for the PCs to get the win against them later on after the PCs have already been beaten up by them the first time.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Question about Suishen: Further powers unlock as you kill oni's of the Five Storms. There are a lot of upcoming oni enemies, beginning with Forest of Spirits, is every one of them to be counted as belonging to the Five Storms? Suishens further powers would unlock pretty quickly, then. Which could be the intent or maybe it couldn't. I'd appreciate a clarification.

On a related topic, is it really intended for the caravan to get unlimited Protection from Energy ( Cold )? Suishens first unlocked power is just that and it seems it would completely trivialize any cold weather problems during the long period the caravan is on the Crown of the World. Is this intentional?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
magnuskn wrote:
On a related topic, is it really intended for the caravan to get unlimited Protection from Energy ( Cold )? Suishens first unlocked power is just that and it seems it would completely trivialize any cold weather problems during the long period the caravan is on the Crown of the World. Is this intentional?

I've have a slightly different interpretation.

I usually go with weapons apply their benefits only to the wielder. So in this case, the protection from energy, at will, means that Suisen is only able to use it on it's wielder.

Suishen will inform it's wielder that it can cast protection from cold on it's wielder, and no, it does not consent to be passed around like some cheap trinket. Also you may want to have it set up that when a new wielder learns it's powers, the links to the old wielder are gone.

Even if you decide that Suishen can cast the protection from cold (once it has been unlocked) to others, Suishen is an intelligent weapon that controls it's powers. Even if Suishen can be talked into using it on others (I would make it a difficult diplomacy check and even then, only in emergencies), I can't see it providing protection from cold to the draft animals.


I may have missed something (likely). But I can't see any reference to the Yama King that the monks' cells at Ravenscraeg have shrines to. A Knowledge (religion) check is allowed, but I can't find him in the Dragon Empires book either...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mistwalker wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
On a related topic, is it really intended for the caravan to get unlimited Protection from Energy ( Cold )? Suishens first unlocked power is just that and it seems it would completely trivialize any cold weather problems during the long period the caravan is on the Crown of the World. Is this intentional?

I've have a slightly different interpretation.

I usually go with weapons apply their benefits only to the wielder. So in this case, the protection from energy, at will, means that Suisen is only able to use it on it's wielder.

Suishen will inform it's wielder that it can cast protection from cold on it's wielder, and no, it does not consent to be passed around like some cheap trinket. Also you may want to have it set up that when a new wielder learns it's powers, the links to the old wielder are gone.

Even if you decide that Suishen can cast the protection from cold (once it has been unlocked) to others, Suishen is an intelligent weapon that controls it's powers. Even if Suishen can be talked into using it on others (I would make it a difficult diplomacy check and even then, only in emergencies), I can't see it providing protection from cold to the draft animals.

Hm, not seeing it, to be honest. Suishen would want to make sure that the Amatatsu scions get back to Minkai. If that necesitates casting its unlimited Protection from Cold power on horses, I'd think it would do so. It has a pretty practical personality, from what I read in its description.

Again, clarification on this issue ( and the first one I raised ) from a dev would be highly appreciated.


gang wrote:
I may have missed something (likely). But I can't see any reference to the Yama King that the monks' cells at Ravenscraeg have shrines to. A Knowledge (religion) check is allowed, but I can't find him in the Dragon Empires book either...

Well from my quick google translate attempt, putting Yama through from Japanese to English I got the following two results:

1: Judgement seat of Yama.
2: Yama, judge of the afterlife.

Oddly enough, that sounds like Pharasma. Though I think any relation is unlikely.


Gluttony wrote:
gang wrote:
I may have missed something (likely). But I can't see any reference to the Yama King that the monks' cells at Ravenscraeg have shrines to. A Knowledge (religion) check is allowed, but I can't find him in the Dragon Empires book either...

Well from my quick google translate attempt, putting Yama through from Japanese to English I got the following two results:

1: Judgement seat of Yama.
2: Yama, judge of the afterlife.

Oddly enough, that sounds like Pharasma. Though I think any relation is unlikely.

So I'm not actually missing something in the AP? Phew!

Liberty's Edge

Has anybody worked up a Hero Lab *.por for Goti Runecaster and/or Raven Swarm?

I've checked the Lone Wolf forum and the community repository for Hero Lab at the SRD site. There is some stuff for Advanced Bestiary templates and Tome of Horrors, but neither of these specifically.

BTW, I've worked up *.por files for Kalsgard and for Ravenscraeg. I'm more than happy to share, with a couple of caveats:

(1) I use some house rules, so unless you want to use the same house rules and want me to include my *.user file, you'll need to make some adjustments, and,

(2) I make changes to suit my large and powerful group, so most of the individual NPCs and monsters aren't strictly by-the-book even aside from house rules. (For instance, I changed Jorgan the Axe to Jorgan the Bruin and made him a natural weapon ranger. Surely I'm not the only NoFS GM who is sick of axes? *Everybody* has a freakin' axe!)

If you'd like the *.por files, feel free to email: jeff dot wilder at yahoo dot com

Paizo Employee Creative Director, Starfinder

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magnuskn wrote:
Question about Suishen: Further powers unlock as you kill oni's of the Five Storms. There are a lot of upcoming oni enemies, beginning with Forest of Spirits, is every one of them to be counted as belonging to the Five Storms? Suishens further powers would unlock pretty quickly, then. Which could be the intent or maybe it couldn't. I'd appreciate a clarification.

Every single oni in the AP is not an oni of the Five Storms. The oni that can unlock Suishen's powers are the "boss" oni in the AP - Kimandatsu, Munasukaru, and the like. The exact definition was intentionally left vague so the GM could control how fast Suishen powers up.

magnuskn wrote:
On a related topic, is it really intended for the caravan to get unlimited Protection from Energy ( Cold )? Suishens first unlocked power is just that and it seems it would completely trivialize any cold weather problems during the long period the caravan is on the Crown of the World. Is this intentional?

Yes, it is. Note that the rules for arctic temperatures on page 65 in Pathfinder #51 say that as long as someone is with the caravan, it is assumed they can avoid the cold's ill effects. Suishen's power (and similar magic) is designed to be used when the characters leave the caravan.

Paizo Employee Creative Director, Starfinder

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gang wrote:
I may have missed something (likely). But I can't see any reference to the Yama King that the monks' cells at Ravenscraeg have shrines to. A Knowledge (religion) check is allowed, but I can't find him in the Dragon Empires book either...

That should be Yaezhing, the same as the shrine in area C8.


magnuskn wrote:
Mistwalker wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
On a related topic, is it really intended for the caravan to get unlimited Protection from Energy ( Cold )? Suishens first unlocked power is just that and it seems it would completely trivialize any cold weather problems during the long period the caravan is on the Crown of the World. Is this intentional?

I've have a slightly different interpretation.

I usually go with weapons apply their benefits only to the wielder. So in this case, the protection from energy, at will, means that Suisen is only able to use it on it's wielder.

Suishen will inform it's wielder that it can cast protection from cold on it's wielder, and no, it does not consent to be passed around like some cheap trinket. Also you may want to have it set up that when a new wielder learns it's powers, the links to the old wielder are gone.

Even if you decide that Suishen can cast the protection from cold (once it has been unlocked) to others, Suishen is an intelligent weapon that controls it's powers. Even if Suishen can be talked into using it on others (I would make it a difficult diplomacy check and even then, only in emergencies), I can't see it providing protection from cold to the draft animals.

Hm, not seeing it, to be honest. Suishen would want to make sure that the Amatatsu scions get back to Minkai. If that necesitates casting its unlimited Protection from Cold power on horses, I'd think it would do so. It has a pretty practical personality, from what I read in its description.

Again, clarification on this issue ( and the first one I raised ) from a dev would be highly appreciated.

Isn't Suishen NG?

"A neutral good character does the best
that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others."

Agreed, Magnuskn. I really don't see why Suishen, whose entire existence is beholden to the PCs, would refuse to help. Well-- if they were evil, sure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Many thanks for the clarifications, Rob. :) I'll work something out in regards to Suishen for my upcoming groups... I don't want the last power unlocking only with the Jade Regent, but also not too fast a level-up.

And good to know about the Protection from Cold, too. :)


Rob McCreary wrote:
gang wrote:
I may have missed something (likely). But I can't see any reference to the Yama King that the monks' cells at Ravenscraeg have shrines to. A Knowledge (religion) check is allowed, but I can't find him in the Dragon Empires book either...
That should be Yaezhing, the same as the shrine in area C8.

Thank you!

The Exchange

In part 3, area C2, the stats for the creature's poison differ from Bestiary 3...is the adventure a misprint, or bestiary 3?

Paizo Employee Creative Director, Starfinder

Chernobyl wrote:
In part 3, area C2, the stats for the creature's poison differ from Bestiary 3...is the adventure a misprint, or bestiary 3?

The spider eater was put in the adventure before Bestiary 3 came out. It went through slight development going into Bestiary 3, so that is the core version that you should use.

The Exchange

Rob McCreary wrote:
Chernobyl wrote:
In part 3, area C2, the stats for the creature's poison differ from Bestiary 3...is the adventure a misprint, or bestiary 3?
The spider eater was put in the adventure before Bestiary 3 came out. It went through slight development going into Bestiary 3, so that is the core version that you should use.

that's what I figured. Thanks


My players and I had a 20 minute discussion about how room D16 in Ravenscraeg was actually laid out in real life and which level the doors attached to. This happened at the end of the night before we started the fight.

With the confusion in the design, I've been asked to build a model of it for next week's get together so that they can get an idea of how it is situated.

The Exchange

Killed a PC tonight, they're going to have the Seal resurrect him back in Kalsgard. What consequence should there be for opening the box? basically the Oni now know where they are, correct? would a big jump in NP be enough? or some other direct consequence?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A jump in NP would be the appropiate idea, yes. The Frozen Shadows are basically always on the outlook for the seal ( while the Five Storms in Minkai have grown somewhat lax in that regard ).

Liberty's Edge

I had a PC die only a couple of days out of Kalsgard, and I popped their NP by +5 when they broke out the Seal to resurrect him.

The Exchange

6 player group in ravenscraeg: has anyone given thought to increasing the maximum number of reinforcements by 50% (or some other amount) to make up for the larger party of PCs?


My group had a guest player who was visiting us come in during their second assault on Ravenscraeg. That made it a 5-person group in my case, rather than 6, but I still increased the difficulty a bit.

Basically I added in some more encounters, this is what I put in:

The river of area C12 got river drakes
-Area D1 got a clockwork soldier guardian
-Each area C5 got an Adherer
-Area C19 had Wodes and his raven swarms replaced (due to incidents involving Ameiko) with a pair of Griffons
-Area C22 had its raven swarms replaced with a Wyvern.

Pretty much all the new monsters were determined to be there due to the influence of Kimandatsu, Goti, Jorgan, or Wodes.

The adherers ended up part of a big battle-royale of the PCs against Jorgan, thugs, raven swarms, and ninja, in the main hall. Fortunately the visiting player handled her druid well, and the party witch pulled off one of her best performances at the table that night. Nobody was killed, though the dwarf crossbow fighter contracted lycanthropy (they cured it though). All the other added monsters were faced individually, and were all decent encounters.


So... has any other GM have the hemlock poison encounter basically just gut the ENTIRE CARAVAN of people (and players)?

The party makes it a deal to have them eat breakfast together (the caravan and the players), and just killed Ameiko, Koya, (Sandru lived with two dex), Walthus Proudstump, 3/4 of the npc hires, and nearly kill two other party members (3 / 3 dex left on them).

With the box being on cooldown for a month, paranoia has hit overdrive. (as well as screaming 'purify food and drink' every time someone gets a biscuit).


A small or medium druid wild shapes into a small or medium creature.

but what about a tiny druid? can Wodes wild shape into a medium sized creature... or is he pretty much limited to cat sized creatures (making wildshape kind of useless for him) either one does not matter to me... but I was thinking of having him shape into a wolverine or bear after running out of spells and joining Goti in melee.

I love using tactics and in my group Wodes knows a lot about the players both because he has been following them for a while and also because he recently watched and somewhat participated in the parties first attempt to storm Ravenscrag.

I have already decided to change Wodes spells to be more effective against the party but am wondering if Wodes will bother with wild shape because I am not sure how it works with him.


wow, that's fairly extreme Pallius. My group never actually made it that high, but I was under the impression that it was a meal targeted directly at the party and major npcs, rather than the entire caravan. I guess if it was a communal meal like you described then I can see that working. That's going to be hard to recover from... With the caravan that devastated however the party should be able to lay low for a while, Kimandatsu might think that they are well and truly routed (especially with Ameiko out of the way) so you've got some wriggle room. The seal can only resurrect scions though and as soon as you pull that out again she'll probably be back on top of the group. Good luck!

blue_the_wolf, well I don't think there are any rules about tiny druids that I'm aware of, I'd say it's pretty much a GM call, if you want him to turn into a bear then go ahead :)


How were they able to keep their NP so low? Just had the poison encounter, and they have yet to gain entry into the Rimerunner's guild building. (Although they did do the farm/boat/shrine)

I'm guessing they didn't sell the longship? (That 1500 gold goes a loooong way)


^ If the PCs don't build up an initial string of NP they can end up being at pretty low number. Most of the biggest NP increases in the adventure occur as a result of NP events.

My first group barely triggered any events at all, as they were very subtle in their investigation and thorough when it came to eliminating enemies and evidence of their investigation.

My second group came 1 NP away from the Thug Ambush (which would have subsequently triggered every remaining event), as they were fairly loudly blundering around town, asking about suspicious things. They likely would have triggered every event had they not set out for Ravenscraeg at that point.


Yeah basically unless they sell the ship getting NP is actually pretty hard. My group set fire to the boat and pushed it back out into the river, so it sunk long before it got anywhere near Kalsgard. I think they managed to trigger the Fatal Warning one, but by that stage they'd already assaulted Ravenscraeg once so I didn't really bother with it.

Liberty's Edge

blue_the_wolf wrote:
but what about a tiny druid? can Wodes wild shape into a medium sized creature...

I'm confused. Isn't Wodes Small?


Ah I also see how my group garnered as massive amount of NP so quickly. They tend to leave survivors.

Farm: They negotiated a truce after killing Asvig (and about 9 warriors), after they lost their inquisitor and got beat up themselves. +5NP (I think)

Boat: (Now this may be my fault..) but I couldn't really see all four ninja's 'fighting to death' if they are to go back and inform on the party. +4NP

Those two alone are 9NP, along with boat (10NP), triggering encounters which garner more NP, and into the downward spiral of increasing lethality they go!

Shadow Lodge

Checking the thread out while planning for NotFS, and I was reminded of this tidbit:

Greg mentioned that Kimandatsu is distracted, having "other irons in the fire," and the PCs weren't her main priority. Now, my group has investigated the hell out of Kalsgard and made a bunch of contacts. So, what exactly might K. be up to?

My group met Lute Haggersly before Brinewall, on some business in Varisia. It seems reasonable that he was gathering information on Kim to try and move against her within the guilds. If that's the plan, and it seems as though a political struggle might be the kind of distraction the PCs need, how would that play out? Who would the major players be? How would you hint at it for your group?

I have ideas, but I'm always eager to hear others GMs' thoughts.


Is there a reason the hellwasp swarm (inhabiting the body to function as a zombie), doesn't just slam and break the glass to TPK the party? (In reference to the 'optional' encounter in the laboratory inside Ravenscraeg)

Inhabit Ability of Hellwasps:

Inhabit (Ex) A hellwasp swarm can enter the body of a helpless
or dead creature by crawling into its mouth and other
orifices. Inhabiting the body requires 1 minute, and the
victim must be Small, Medium, or Large. The swarm can
abandon the body at any time, although doing so takes
a full-round action. Any attack against the host deals
half damage to the hellwasp swarm as well, although the
swarm’s resistances and immunities may negate some or all
of this damage.
If a hellwasp swarm inhabits a dead body, it can restore
animation to the creature and control its movements,
effectively transforming it into a zombie of the appropriate
size for as long as the swarm remains inside.
If a hellwasp
swarm inhabits a living victim, it can neutralize the effects
of its own poison and control the victim’s movement and
actions as if using dominate monster on the victim. The
hellwasps quickly consume a living victim, dealing 2d4 points
of Constitution damage per hour they inhabit its body.
A hellwasp-inhabited creature is relatively easy to spot,
since its skin crawls with the forms of the insects inside.
The swarm is intelligent enough to attempt to hide beneath
loose clothing or a large cloak to keep its presence from
being detected. The swarm can attempt a Disguise check
to conceal its inhabitation of a host, taking a –4 penalty if it
inhabits a Small host.
A remove disease or heal spell cast on an inhabited victim
forces the hellwasp swarm to abandon its host.

Bolded for my emphasis.

The creepy factor alone makes the encounter so enjoyable as a GM, as the players quake in their boots. (Whether or not they break the glass). (My party believes it's some sort of super devil, unable to release itself from the magical glass against evil.)

The players had flipped tables and readied actions to bull-rush enemies away from the glass for fear of 'that creepy guy with the buzzing voice and the moving pustules'.


@ Pallius Crispin: I think the hellwasp swarm merely can't generate enough force in its confines to do enough damage to the glass casing. The funny thing though, my PCs managed to sick the Hellwasps on some of the reinforcements of FS ninja and thugs.

I shall elaborate their adventure. But first, background on the characters. The party started the campaign with six adventurer's: a half-orc shifter ranger, a half-orc alchemist, a dwarven barbarian, a gnome cleric of Abadar, a human shield fighter, and a human scout rogue.

:
Easy peazy until they got to the Amatatsu Seal. My initial ruling before this, as I had yet to fully understand the rules of the new classes of Magus, Gunslinger, Samurai, and Ninja, were that they were unavailable. But by the time they reached the seal, I was comfortable enough to allow all but gunslingers as playable classes, as well as the rules from the UC and UM. So I used the imparted knowledge of their quest to allow them a chance to change and utilize one of the newer classes if they so chose, but maintain their character's treasures, name, and the like. It was a bit technical, so I'll skip over it, but merely stating the ranger became a Magus and the shielded fighter switched over to archer fighter.

Then Frozen Shadows began. While still unsure as to how all of the caravan rules worked, though we did run a couple of minor scuffles in Brinewall Legacy as caravan battles that were easily overcome, I had the Viking raiders attack at night. A problem for the magus and the alchemist, but as they had saved Kelda Oxgutter, her cleaving while raging was a boon and the two barbarians with aid of the scout and fighter offering ranged support, were able to swiftly turn the tides of combat. They then carried the boat with them to the city whereupon the group settled and proceeded to investigate for the sword.

This was when things really got interesting. They found the Viking who had Suishen and were directed to the farm. They, unknowingly facilitated the pre-written adventure's drunken fight scene at night, by offering up poisoned ale as a gift to Asvig "in honor" of Snoori's death, hoping to sneak in at night.

That night, they tripped the alarms and were forced to fight three of the lion guardians. Then, the cleric cast silence on the rogue and then they slipped in, literally quietly, into the chamber, where only the distinct LACK of sound roused suspiscion from those inebriated but still conscious. My brother the alchemist, and the magus, were rather upset because they didn't have the silent spell feat. But they managed to win after the spell wore off after a few rounds.

It was at this time that my brother had to leave to go to college and we thought that we would down a player. Not a problem, but a newcomer joined us just in time to tackle the Snoori ship. At this time they apporach and watched Uhksahka trying to convince the Viking guards to let her on board to search for her brother.

NOTE: the ship scene was altered as means to bring in the new PC even though the rest of the party had yet to meet Uhksahka.

Earlier, the rogue had managed to convince Suishen's owner to give them a writ of weregild collection for the sword and made a natural 20 on his Diplomacy to search the ship for the sword. Well, only he was allowed to enter. But when he met up with Snoori's ghost, all went to the pits. The whole party entered combat, the rogue nearly died, the magus blasted a hole in the ship to get in from the dock and leapt in with the Barbarian, the cleric cast obscuring mist over Uhksaka and the Vikings on guard, and the archer got stuck on the dock in melee with three Vikings, managing to take out two before nearly being slain.

Good news was, I had it that the Advanced Vikings were an honor guard and were the primary police force that served on Linnor King Sveinn Bloodeagle's forces and they fought to subdue. By the time the mist cleared, the Vikings had departed for reinforcements, having grabbed Uhksaka as a prisoner.

So they fled and hid out. NP went through the roof by this point. Then, because of the quick backstory needed for the new player - he is, now that we've finished the module, playing a halfling beast rider cavalier 3/druid 4 on a tiger - he led them to the church where the earth golem was.

To avoid outright killing the party, I had it alternate between attacks and combat manuevers. The cleric's crossbow was destroyed in the process with a super sunder and the PC got so mad, claiming it was his holy symbol, and created a Tetori Monk to replace it. then the magus got upset and left, and is now an elven alchemist.

But I got off on a tangent. When they finally enter the Rimerunner's guild. The party opts to enter in the daytime while in full business, and manage, somehow, to get invited back by one of the clerks under a guise of business. Then, the halfling cavalier/druid has his medium sized tiger try to scent Uhkahka's location. Not a problem usually, but it wandered off on its own. The clerk got mad, tried to get him to reign it under control, the dwarf got mad because the clerk did, and then called for the guards. The archer, who had opted to wait outside, saw one of the clerk's run out, heard there was a fight going on, and, against all logic, went looking for Viking police.

Needless to say, the party was arrested for fighting, the Rimerunners were arrested for kidnapping after the Vikings searched the place, and they were all brought before Sveinn.

The Barbarian then natural 20'd a diplomacy check against the king and it was like...holy crap...I'm the DM, I can't plan for all of this insanity!

Long story short, they eventually made their way to Ravenscraeg, killing the would-be assassin archer chick, but they were forced to leave the city WITH the caravan because of what they did.

So, the battle on the stair case up has the archer down 6 con points because of the tengu ninja poisons - his character is taking one level of ranger to favored enemy (ninja) I know it's not a real thing, but it's cosmetically hilarious so he get's to do it - and they climb the stairs.

They clear the first area, then they take out Jorgan the Axe Wearbear, backing him all the way into his own bedroom so it's just the Tetori monk and the wearbear fighting each other, the ninja from the tower's top sneak down the stairs and shoot the archer with their blowguns because he was waiting at the bottom of their tower's stairwell, and the barbarian had boxed herself in the very middle of the party and her movement couldn't end up anywhere near the enemy. (They did make the Perception to spot the Hellwasps, and the Knowledge planes check to ID them - go Rogues and Monks!)

More craziness. The party always seems to want to do one combat, one full rest. It's stupid in game time, and they love to rest in the MIDDLE OF ENEMY TERRITORY. But I allowed them to think themselves clever after the cleared out the main floor with the ninja and the thugs and the raven swarms. Then they hid out in the kitchen. A failed cooking check by one of the PCs resulted in penalities they wanted to rest off while in the kitchen - they're almost all friggin meta-gamers, I swear - and immediatly following, the archer does something stupid. The hear the approaching reinforcements.

He sees FS ninja. He shoots them from inside the kitchen to where they are on the path up to the kitchen outside and the ninja use their ninja vanishing trick. They slip down the stream and enter the waterfall entrance to the basement.

So, needless to say, Kimandatsu, Omoyani, and ten FS ninja sneak up from the basements. I took pity on them and didn't bring the trolls or Goti Runecaster or Wodes to the fight. The party managed to place the hellwasp swarm in front of the kitchen's door between it and the hallway and the monk threw a dagger and broke it, engulfing the thugs in the swarm and it slowly killed almost one a round, while the party made a stand in the main chamber with the archer's firing down from above on the catwalks and the barbarian kicking the crap out of Kimandatsu. The ninja and Omoyani moved to flank, but between an alchemist in mutagen mode with a shield of faith, the monk who pinned everyone came near, and the halfling he-man on battlecat charging through their ranks, only the barbarian died before the party pulled a victory.

The Amatatsu Seal resurrected her. O_O!!!

We ended the module there, roleplaying the rest of the minor scenarios of the module because the managed to come out on top against the BBEG and the little BBEG at the same time.

I warn my players. In these APs I notice there is an easy way and a hard way to go about every scenario. They tend to inadvertently find themselves in the harder of the two choices. I was just glad I didn't have Kimandatsu using her spells and Omoyani using the full abilities of her outfit to kick the crap out of everyone. A TPK in this game would mean an adventuring end, in my opinion because of the seal's annointing abilities in the end of Brinewall Legacy.

NOTE: the above, if the spoiler button worked right, was a very quick overview of what happened in the Frozen Shadows modules.

Any thoughts? Comments?

Grand Lodge

One of the encounters is giving me a hard time as it seems like it shouldn't be possible. It pertains to stealth and I'm putting it in a spoiler tag because I'm going to get specific. Here is a link to d20pfsrd's section on Stealth for convenience.

Stealth Encounter Spoiler:
In D3. Cistern (pg. 44-45) the PCs encounter Executioner's Hoods. If the stealth skill works like I think it does, a creature must have something to hide in/behind. In other words, attached to a ceiling only 10ft from the floor while in the range of a light spell isn't going to allow for stealth. Is this correct?


Those monsters are essentially hiding behind the fact that the average person doesn't normally pay too much attention to the ceiling of any given room. Presumably (since they're also the infant form of lurking ray monsters) they blend in somewhat with the ceiling as well.

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