Weapon Ability Agile as Feat?


Homebrew and House Rules


Any opinions on the idea?
It's a +1 enchant that lets you use dex as damage on weapons that qualify for weapon finesse.


Personally I'd just like to see Dervish Dance redone to allow for a wider range of weapons. Possibly even with two-weapon fighting. Spending two feats just to be a viable Dex-based combatant is a bit BS, but it'd be worth it if I could wield something other than a single scimitar.


I like it. I'm already using weapon finesse as a weapon quality (most weapons that qualify for finesse allow you to use either str or dex right out of the box, no feat needed. Some are even dex only, like the rapier and the whip). This would make a good replacement feat.


Mind you, as an example that it kinda has been done.

Throw Anything = Throwing Ability
There's also Deflect and Snatch Arrows.
And way more in 3.5 such as dual wield, archery, etc.

Reverse engineer it ftw :D


I generally dislike builds that are only viable through magical items, so in that way it would be preferable.

I'd limit it to a single type of weapon, or any qualifying weapon you got weapon focus in.


Remco Sommeling wrote:

I generally dislike builds that are only viable through magical items, so in that way it would be preferable.

I'd limit it to a single type of weapon, or any qualifying weapon you got weapon focus in.

Personally, I hate weapon focus as req on feat.

And needing two feats and then a third just helps the whole" THF is the only build allowed to do 'actual' damage" bandwagon.


It already is overpowered, if it was a feat it would be even more. there should be a feat to allow it to use half dex on damage, then we'd be on the balance track.

Liberty's Edge

Xum wrote:
It already is overpowered, if it was a feat it would be even more. there should be a feat to allow it to use half dex on damage, then we'd be on the balance track.

It would only be overpowered as a feat if there were no prerequisites. If it required Agile Maneuvers and Weapon Finesse, it'd be fine, especially since they'll have to take yet another feat to get the dex equivalent of Power Attack.

As a weapon enhancement, I'm not so sure. For one thing, it just doesn't feel like a weapon enhancement. What is it about the magic that lets you do "graceful-stabs"? How is it different from how the basic "+X" bonus is described to work from a fluff point of view? It makes more sense as a feat.


Tyki11 wrote:
Remco Sommeling wrote:

I generally dislike builds that are only viable through magical items, so in that way it would be preferable.

I'd limit it to a single type of weapon, or any qualifying weapon you got weapon focus in.

Personally, I hate weapon focus as req on feat.

And needing two feats and then a third just helps the whole" THF is the only build allowed to do 'actual' damage" bandwagon.

I think you're confusing "actual" damage with "the most" damage. Doesn't it make sense that THF should do the most damage?


Xum wrote:
As a weapon enhancement, I'm not so sure. For one thing, it just doesn't feel like a weapon enhancement. What is it about the magic that lets you do "graceful-stabs"? How is it different from how the basic "+X" bonus is described to work from a fluff point of view? It makes more sense as a feat.

The weapon property in the new Pathfinder Field Guide, so it's already for real.


Didn't mean it shouldn't have a preq feat.
Just not weapon focus.
A chain could be:

Either agile maneuvers or weapon finesse both fit as preq.


chrids wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that THF should do the most damage?

In one hit? Of course. In one round? No way.


Hudax wrote:
chrids wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that THF should do the most damage?
In one hit? Of course. In one round? No way.

Why not? TWF already wins when it comes to crit generation and the associated benefits.


Tyki11 wrote:

Didn't mean it shouldn't have a preq feat.

Just not weapon focus.
A chain could be:

Either agile maneuvers or weapon finesse both fit as preq.

Weapon Finesse -> Weapon Agility would be fine.

Say you have a human fighter with 18 DEX:
TWF
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Agility

(2d6 + 4) x .6 = 6.6

If rogue, add 2d6 x .6 for sneak attack = 10.8

2h 18 STR fighter:

no feats

(2d6 + 6) x .7 = 9.1

Add Power Attack, Weapon Focus: (2d6 + 9) x .7 = 11.2


Jarl wrote:
Hudax wrote:
chrids wrote:
Doesn't it make sense that THF should do the most damage?
In one hit? Of course. In one round? No way.
Why not? TWF already wins when it comes to crit generation and the associated benefits.

And 2h wins at standard action attack + move. And viability without feats. And overall dpr.


Tyki11 wrote:

Didn't mean it shouldn't have a preq feat.

Just not weapon focus.
A chain could be:

Either agile maneuvers or weapon finesse both fit as preq.

I consider this feat quite powerful, as it tends to make strength a dump stat, it also adds far more damage than weapon specialization or similar feats and dexterity is a very useful ability for any character already.

Maybe not weapon focus, but I'd probably go for something even less popular instead.

strength 10, weapon finesse, agile maneuvers

strength 10 to prevent strength being a total dump stat and carnage wreaking pixies.

agile maneuvers, seems a likely related chain feat and fits to the concept in my mind

weapon finesse, obviously, house ruled to be granted for free to any character, so instead to keep a decent 'feat tax' I'd add combat expertise for my campaigns. Which I also slightly altered to be more instantly useful at low level

combat expertise, because it fits with the kind of character in my opinion, house ruled to grant an additional +2 to hit or +2 AC, player's choice before he makes an attack that round, while fighting defensively, with improved combat expertise granting both requiring +6 BAB

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