Wizards are fun.
Yeah, there hindsight power is awesome.
A running character loose his dex bonus, but this is not important. You resolved the problem, but if you are not a barbarian is more difficult.
More difficult. The necromancer use planar binding and summon a marilith. He can buff her from invisibility. Or summon a creature every round.
1) Charging is not running.
2) Kill Marilith in one round. Charging Barbarian's attack bonus versus a Marilith is (20+17 str+1 competence+6 reckless assault-6 Power Attack+6 Witch Hunter+2 charging+1 haste) 47. I might be missing some. That leads to an iterative of 47/47/42/37/32. Marilith's AC is 32. Barbarian's damage is... I'm not going to calculate it, but 2 hits is easily enough to chew through 264 HP if the creature has SLA's. Now the equation's been simplified to being invisible, and we assume mind blanked. Once more, all we need to do is so much as get an idea of the square.And we have a dire bat.
EDIT: Yeah, I kind of missed any weapon enchantments at all. Add 7 to all those numbers.
Some problems. She has reach. If you are buffed, i can buff her also. I also give the marilith an armor and a shield. AC became 42, if i don't want to spend more money. Easily it can became 48. 49 haste, 51 cat's grace. Witch hunter gives bonus only on damage, not hit, so assuming your numbers are right you have 41 bonus in charge, 39 after, so if i don't use buffs on her you hit with best attack at 11 (50%), then 13. Charging you make only an attack, but if i am over 24 m you can't. If you have also the beast totem power tree, i doubt you can have all powers to absorb energy and spell, but this later. Marilith has reach, so she can hit you first. Then, after you both hit (or miss), it's my round. Time stop, summon. 1d4+1 demons, that use aid another on marilith, givin each a +2 ac bonus and surrounding you.
This is why usually adventurer need a party :)
With the barbarian save bonuses being as high as worked out here a ring of evasion seems like it would help them a lot.
Don't need it. On the spells that save for half you do this:
Choose to fail the save.Activate Eater of Magic rage power
Make a new save - high saves means you probably make it
Eater of Magic says that if you make your new save you are not effected by the spell. So you saved and took no damage instead of half.
Eater of Magic also says that when you do this you get temp HP = caster lvl of spell. So you gain some temp HP too.
Eater of Magic is like evasion + temp HP.
No rules states that. By the way, how can you notice a little animal that maybe his togheter his similar (es, a sparrow) that are making similar sounds?And what about a druid casting in animal form (a little bird, for example) that you can't recognize even if you can see? How can a character recognize such druid, even if he has rank in spellcraft?If you see a creature casting a spell, you know it is casting a spell. This is true even for spells with no components. James Jacobs (I think, may have been Jason) stated this a while back. The only way to hide casting a spell is through some bard archetype in the APG.Yes, they do indirectly. I originally had your stance, but Jason Buhlman commented it here:
LinkyA dog seeing a hummingbird cast a still, silent spell from 100 feet away (provided it's not beyond his range of sight) knows that the hummingbird is casting a spell. If the dog has a rank in spellcraft, he can learn which.
EDIT: Fixed an error.
You have to see and notice the animal. I doubt that you fix every bird on trees. If you see, if you were watching right direction...
I'm just trying to show that a lot of rules need to be fixed. This one, the "once a rage" powers, and so on.
And how useless is this tread, even if I enjoy a lot and I'm learning new thing about rules. :)
So you Time Stop and then do a bunch of stuff.
One - You do not prismatic sphere the barbarian. Range = 10ft / centered ON YOU. Fail
Time stop, move by Barbarian, Prismatic Sphere. 10 ft range Centered on you, but doesn't move with you.
Three - NO SPELL can cross the prismatic sphere. There will be no teleporting/summoning/calling monsters into the sphere. The Indigo layer stops all spells. Fail
Second, you can't be affected by Prismatic sphere till Time stop over so just leave and teleport out.
Barbarian stuck inside now.
Wizards are fun.Yeah, there hindsight power is awesome.
Sarcasm will not get you sandwhiches.
So you Time Stop and then do a bunch of stuff.
One - You do not prismatic sphere the barbarian. Range = 10ft / centered ON YOU. Fail
Time stop, move by Barbarian, Prismatic Sphere. 10 ft range Centered on you, but doesn't move with you.
Three - NO SPELL can cross the prismatic sphere. There will be no teleporting/summoning/calling monsters into the sphere. The Indigo layer stops all spells. FailSecond, you can't be affected by Prismatic sphere till Time stop over so just leave and teleport out.
Barbarian stuck inside now.
Barbarian Spell Sunders prismatic sphere with a single attack and dispels it.
Some problems. She has reach. If you are buffed, i can buff her also. I also give the marilith an armor and a shield. AC became 42, if i don't want to spend more money. Easily it can became 48. 49 haste, 51 cat's grace. Witch hunter gives bonus only on damage, not hit, so assuming your numbers are right you have 41 bonus in charge, 39 after, so if i don't use buffs on her you hit with best attack at 11 (50%), then 13. Charging you make only an attack, but if i am over 24 m you can't. If you have also the beast totem power tree, i doubt you can have all powers to absorb energy and spell, but this later. Marilith has reach, so she can hit you first. Then, after you both hit (or miss), it's my round. Time stop, summon. 1d4+1 demons, that use aid another on marilith, givin each a +2 ac bonus and surrounding you.
This is why usually adventurer need a party :)
The barbarian is using a lance (reach), the marlitith isn't proficent with armor or shields. The buff spells could be cast in a round, so gratz, the marlith's ac is 3 higher. You're right about witchhunter not helping to-hit, but the calculations missed having a magic weapon, so it's one higher. His last attack misses on a 2 or less.
And again, the barbarian isn't buffed. He's using rage, and has boots of speed(free action).
Also I'm unclear why the non-flying monster is stopping the barbarian from charging you? If the marlith get's an AAO, Come And Get Me will allow the barbarian to sunder the planar binding.
Some problems. She has reach. If you are buffed, i can buff her also. I also give the marilith an armor and a shield. AC became 42, if i don't want to spend more money. Easily it can became 48. 49 haste, 51 cat's grace. Witch hunter gives bonus only on damage, not hit, so assuming your numbers are right you have 41 bonus in charge, 39 after, so if i don't use buffs on her you hit with best attack at 11 (50%), then 13. Charging you make only an attack, but if i am over 24 m you can't. If you have also the beast totem power tree, i doubt you can have all powers to absorb energy and spell, but this later. Marilith has reach, so she can hit you first. Then, after you both hit (or miss), it's my round. Time stop, summon. 1d4+1 demons, that use aid another on marilith, givin each a +2 ac bonus and surrounding you.This is why usually adventurer need a party :)
Yeah...Trinam screwed up the attack bonus on that one.
20 BAB17 Str
4 Rage (How could you forget Rage!)
2 charge
1 haste
7 weapon (+5 Furious weapon)
Total: +51 attack bonus
Edit: I don't think you spell sunder a called creature. They are there in the flesh and are not a spell.
Sarcasm will not get you sandwhiches.Wizards are fun.Yeah, there hindsight power is awesome.
It's just becoming formulaic, someone says a wizard does something, someone else points out that doesn't work, then the wizard introduces something new.
The book wasn't a construct until I pointed out that you couldn't scry the thief.
Some of that is we're just tossing idea's around, some of that is wizard are supposed to be supremely intelligent but as players we are only of regular intelligence, but a lot of it is wizards are not as effective when held to the rules and action economy.
And I'm going to get a sandwich now, nanna nanna boo boo
How are you scrying him? You have no connection and no knowledge of him.Good thing the magic mouth spell on the book has been screaming that its been stolen this whole time....
ROGUE: 'allo there guv. Moight I hock this 'ere book at this 'ere foine shop?
BOOK: I AM INSTRUCTED TO YELL AT THE TOP OF MY MAGICAL LUNGS THAT I HAVE BEEN STOLEN FROM SIR SANDWHICHIFICUS THE BOLOGNA MAGE! PLEASE RETURN ME TO 23451 ALCHEMY LANE! I FIT THROUGH THE MAIL SLOT!
Shopekeep: Say, this wasn't stolen was it?
Rogue: Wot makes you say dat? Am I not an honest person?
Ahh a worthy opponent.
Rogue rolls Bluff:Seriously Sir Sandwhichificus? And what in the Nine is a "mage". It's a novelty item. A "talking spell book" If you rip out a page it screams for help. It you want I can get you a lot more of these.
Wizard: "Damn and blast! How can I make the legendary 70ft long all american 99 cheese submarine for the kings ball without my book!" *opens secret chest* "Good thing I keep a spare about now let's see...
*replaces spellbook chest goes back to plane*
*casts scrying*
*casts teleport*"UNHAND MY BOOK THIS INSTANT OR I WILL BE MOST CROSS!"
Nooooooo, but the shrunken homunculi sleeping inside the book can be scried on. :)
Heck the whole book cover could be a permanent animated object.
Wizards are fun.
See novelty item, Fat bonus to bluff.
>What level did you enter the mage college? 15th? You should have been killed at level 1 to put a stop to your foolishness day one.<
Rogue still Bluffing: Look at the cover it glares at you and this shrunken keychain. If you can't recognize a good... you know what I'm going to keep it and charge addmission to look at it.
Irate wizard appears:"UNHAND MY BOOK THIS INSTANT OR I WILL BE MOST CROSS!"
Rogue STILL bluffing: >points at merchant< YOU WHERE GOING TO SELL ME THIS BOOK AS A NOVELTY, KNOWING THAT IT BELONGED TO A POWERFUL WIZARD.
Rogue bluff set for kill: You sir, Are a CAD! >Pick wizards pocket on the way out. Sneak back to the wizards house poison his food.<
>Go beat bargain assassin to death with a pillow<
You have to see and notice the animal. I doubt that you fix every bird on trees. If you see, if you were watching right direction...
I'm just trying to show that a lot of rules need to be fixed. This one, the "once a rage" powers, and so on.
And how useless is this tread, even if I enjoy a lot and I'm learning new thing about rules. :)
Well, there's no facing in PF. You automatically see everything within your line of sight/range.
Reading through this I'm struck by something.
I can't read minds to divine their original intent, but I think that the designers intended all these once per rage powers to be, well used once per rage, and thus once per encounter.
I'm not sure they really thought it through with the level 17 tireless rage feature, and realized that feature meant these once per rage powers could then be used once (or maybe more than once per round) in every encounter.
I'd say similarly they didn't consider the interaction with the oracle features, the heart of the fields trait, and the horizon walker (though since it takes 3 levels to get that one not as many people use it).
Don't get me wrong, I think the barbarian working this way is great.
It just doesn't seem to me they intended it to work out like this.
The Barbarian capstone is +2 to str and con, and +1 to will saves. Pretty sure the wanted barbarians to have nice things though, which is why they gave them tireless rage.
Just wanted to add, that almost all of these barbarian builds seem to use:
Invulnerable Rager archetype
Superstition
Beast TotemThere are other rage powers that come up over and over, but I'm not sure I've seen many builds that don't use these features. It's pretty obvious why, but still...
It's been one barbarian build, he has these powers. There have been multiple different wizards, who've all been divinationist's, and have used gate. It's pretty obvious why, but still...
Reading through this I'm struck by something.
I can't read minds to divine their original intent, but I think that the designers intended all these once per rage powers to be, well used once per rage, and thus once per encounter.
I'm not sure they really thought it through with the level 17 tireless rage feature, and realized that feature meant these once per rage powers could then be used once (or maybe more than once per round) in every encounter.
I'd say similarly they didn't consider the interaction with the oracle features, the heart of the fields trait, and the horizon walker (though since it takes 3 levels to get that one not as many people use it).
Don't get me wrong, I think the barbarian working this way is great.
It just doesn't seem to me they intended it to work out like this.
There are a few negatives to rage cycling, although the process is clearly ok by RAW.
1) Each round you rage cycle costs 2 rage rounds. So it eats through your rage quicker.
2) You leave yourself open to attack when cycling. Readied action for when barbarian drops rage and hose him with a save or suck. No rage = no superstition, no clear mind, no eater of magic, etc. A barbarian can get hosed doing this. However, as a barbarian I would be suspicious of a wizard not taking his actions so I would probably not risk the rage cycling. It becomes a mind game.
>Pick wizards pocket on the way out.
This seems suicidal. You never know what you'll find in there.
Also why did you poison my poor butler? What did he ever do?
However beating someone to death with a pillow is hilarious. You get a ham and cheese sandwhich for that.
This thread is past it's sell-by date. It's devolved into people saying why the barbarian can beat the caster, countered by why the caster can beat the barbarian, countered by why the barbarian can beat the caster. At this point, this isn't a C-M D thread, it's something else.
We should be looking at what happens in-game, which is usually NOT PvP. Sure, some opponents are stat'd up using PC class levels, but if you say the BBEG is a dragon and not a plain sorcerer, you're looking at a whole new ball game and most of the posts in this thread become pointless.
However, the conflict is a prime example of why the thread was created (but not the point of the discussion): barbarians standing their ground versus casters. Most of the points come from rage powers and how they help deal with casters. -=That=- is exactly what we need for the fighter, maybe cavalier, and any other martial classes that are weaker in comparison to casters. Even if people don't accept the barbarian can compare to the wizard, most people are using them as their weapon of choice against casters, meaning they are closer to it than anyone else, at the very least.
I don't bother if Marilith has no competence in armor. I don't think she will have problems on hittin the barbarian.
Btw, it stops the barbarian cause i'm over her, invisible with mind blank.
You never mentioned how you can hit a mage with this (even wish can't bypass mund blank).
Again, the purpose of my comments is just to show that some class features need fix, and that a lot of people can't handle the situation that create in a complex environment and complain about the rules.
By the way, now the problem is fighter and knight.
The wizard would have a low 30 stealth and adds +20 for invisibility. The chance to see the wizard at range 600' is nil.
After the bat is dead, how fast is the barbarian moving? Note: straight up requires flight skill checks and is half speed. At that point, it would not even be necessary to be invisible since the barbarian can never close the distance.
BARBARIAN ALREADY COVER THIS. AM NOT ABLE TO SEE BARBARIAN FROM 600 FEET AWAY DUE TO PERCEPTION RULES. AM NOT ABLE TO TAKE SPELL PERFECTION ON MULTIPLE SPELLS. AND FOR THAT MATTER, AM STRONG POSSIBILITY BATTY BAT AM STILL WEARING RING OF FRIEND SHIELD BARBARIAN GOT FOR BATTY BAT BIRTHDAY.
CLEARLY, CASTY AM LOST IN OWN WORLD INDEPENDENT FROM RAW.
The Spell Perfection feat has the following: "whenever that spell is cast". So who is delusional?
The ring of shielding just hosed you since the bat's saves are low. You would take half the spell damage minus resistance and half what the bat takes which will generally be the full amount with no resistance. The bat's ring of evasion would only help 5% of the time. For those keeping score, the barbarian takes full spell damage minus resistance once. Gosh, that is so good, I might be tempted to use 5th level magic. It is pretty trivial to do 60 points of area damage of whatever element I choose for very little cost. Every round, you would take 50 and the bat 30. On your turn, you would run away? Pick your nose? Hide? Perhaps, charge the square where I used to be located? I am at least 60 feet from there if not more.
Since you picked the wrong item, do you want a do over? Pick a different item?
Or how about a nice bat sandwich?
He's already said he has a gem of seeing. Eater of magic is giving him 20 temp hp's each time you cast a fireball. The bat also has blindsense 40ft. He has to get lucky once, you have to do over 400 hitpoints before that happens. Also a quickened dimension door is an 8th level spell, how many of those do you get?
I don't bother if Marilith has no competence in armor. I don't think she will have problems on hittin the barbarian.
Btw, it stops the barbarian cause i'm over her, invisible with mind blank.You never mentioned how you can hit a mage with this (even wish can't bypass mund blank).
Again, the purpose of my comments is just to show that some class features need fix, and that a lot of people can't handle the situation that create in a complex environment and complain about the rules.
By the way, now the problem is fighter and knight.
Blindsense bypassed mind blank, and invisibility.
the barbarian has beaten countless wizards. he has beaten me *coughs up blood* he has beaten my all powerful extraplanar grandfather, and he has intimidated my uncle. guess i better hand him that sandwhich after all. *hands AM BARBARIAN a pastrami on rye* lets dance to AM BARBARIAN's glory. it need no song. *starts dancing in honor of AM BARBARIAN while trying to make sure her frilly doll like dress doesn't lift too high*
The Spell Perfection feat has the following: "whenever that spell is cast". So who is delusional?The ring of shielding just hosed you since the bat's saves are low. You would take half the spell damage minus resistance and half what the bat takes which will generally be the full amount with no resistance. The bat's ring of evasion would only help 5% of the time. For those keeping score, the barbarian takes full spell damage minus resistance once. Gosh, that is so good, I might be tempted to use 5th level magic. It is pretty trivial to do 60 points of area damage of whatever element I choose for very little cost. Every round, you would take 50 and the bat 30. On your turn, you would run away? Pick your nose? Hide? Perhaps, charge the square where I used to be located? I am at least 60 feet from there if not more.
Since you picked the wrong item, do you want a do over? Pick a different item?
Or how about a nice bat sandwich?
Ok lets parse out the damage here. Maximized fireball lvl 20 wizard = 60 points of damage save DC 31 for half.
Barbarian: Eater of magic's the fireball. Takes NO damage and gains 20 temp HP.
Bat: Fails the save miserably (+7 reflex save bonus, without any magic bump). Takes 60 damage. Ring of friend shield halves that. Takes 30 points of damage. Survives first fireball with 6HP left.
Barbarian: Takes 30 points of fire damage through ring of shielding. Drops that down to 24 points of damage.
You will only get that once. You can not see him at 600 ft and so if he moves on his turn and is not within your perception range after the move you have no idea where he is either. You are now fling fireballs at random.
Barbarian Spell Sunders prismatic sphere with a single attack and dispels it.
So you Time Stop and then do a bunch of stuff.
One - You do not prismatic sphere the barbarian. Range = 10ft / centered ON YOU. Fail
Time stop, move by Barbarian, Prismatic Sphere. 10 ft range Centered on you, but doesn't move with you.
Three - NO SPELL can cross the prismatic sphere. There will be no teleporting/summoning/calling monsters into the sphere. The Indigo layer stops all spells. FailSecond, you can't be affected by Prismatic sphere till Time stop over so just leave and teleport out.
Barbarian stuck inside now.
You can't dispel Prismatic Sphere.
You have to sunder Color by Color (read the rules in Prismatc Wall).Read:
The wall can be destroyed, color by color , in consecutive order, by casting the specified spells on the wall; however, the first color must be brought down before the second can be affected, and so on. A rod of cancellation or a mage's disjunction spell destroys a prismatic wall, but an antimagic field fails to penetrate it. Dispel magic and greater dispel magic can only be used on the wall once all the other colors have been destroyed
So 7 rds later, the Barbarian might be out.
Plus Spell Sunder is 1/rage.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Barbarian Spell Sunders prismatic sphere with a single attack and dispels it.
So you Time Stop and then do a bunch of stuff.
One - You do not prismatic sphere the barbarian. Range = 10ft / centered ON YOU. Fail
Time stop, move by Barbarian, Prismatic Sphere. 10 ft range Centered on you, but doesn't move with you.
Three - NO SPELL can cross the prismatic sphere. There will be no teleporting/summoning/calling monsters into the sphere. The Indigo layer stops all spells. FailSecond, you can't be affected by Prismatic sphere till Time stop over so just leave and teleport out.
Barbarian stuck inside now.You can't dispel Prismatic Sphere.
You have to sunder Color by Color (read the rules in Prismatc Wall).
Read:
The wall can be destroyed, color by color , in consecutive order, by casting the specified spells on the wall; however, the first color must be brought down before the second can be affected, and so on. A rod of cancellation or a mage's disjunction spell destroys a prismatic wall, but an antimagic field fails to penetrate it. Dispel magic and greater dispel magic can only be used on the wall once all the other colors have been destroyedSo 7 rds later, the Barbarian might be out.
It is an ambiguous piece of the rules, which could go either way and needs to be clarified with a FAQ or errata. It has been brought up.
Spell sunder is not dispel magic or greater dispel magic. It flat states, you sunder a spell and it is dispelled. If you note, other dispel effect powers DO state that they act like dispel magic while Spell sunder does not and so it does not. Prismatic spells are immune to dispel magic the spell and effects that act like dispel magic.
As far as 1 sunder / rage. He rage cycles. Also been stated multiple times in thread.
Edit: The big picture is that some spells are not effected by dispel magic / anti-magic field spells. Spell Sunder is not a spell and does not follow those spell rules. It is it's own rule.
You can't dispel Prismatic Sphere.
You have to sunder Color by Color (read the rules in Prismatc Wall).
Read:
The wall can be destroyed, color by color , in consecutive order, by casting the specified spells on the wall; however, the first color must be brought down before the second can be affected, and so on. A rod of cancellation or a mage's disjunction spell destroys a prismatic wall, but an antimagic field fails to penetrate it. Dispel magic and greater dispel magic can only be used on the wall once all the other colors have been destroyedSo 7 rds later, the Barbarian might be out.
Plus Spell Sunder is 1/rage.
Spell sunder say's if you beat the CMD by 10, the effect is dispelled. Mage's Disjunction says it works by "ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does". Prismatic wall says dispel magic and greater dispel magic don't work on it, not every effect that dispels magic.
You know, I think this thread has been quite enlightening. When an unbuffed Wizard (pretty much the weakest he's going to get) faces a pre-buffed melee'r who is already close enough to charge him during his turn and is specifically designed to negate casters, the melee guy has a solid chance of winning. And really, the fact that this is necessary says more about the relative levels of power between casters and melee than anything else I could.
No... We found that that who ever went first would win.
An unbuffed martial character vs an unbuffed wizard would easily win. I could easily make a ninja character that could kill/heavily impede a someone as a single sneak attack, on his surprise round, "Anyone being the key word here." that he gets as a talent, and would always get a surprise round it becomes initiative vs initiative, and unlike some other builds, it wouldn't be completely far fetched to assume he would do this normally. Also assuming if they where both unbuffed. Not to mention that most martial characters do more then enough damage at level 20 to do 60+ damage in one round, hell one attack at level 20.
Even letting the wizard go first, after the surprise round. Which, with the talent Surprise Attack, they are always consider flatfooted, and the rogue/ninja goes first. Although that is a good one, if one ability says always, and another ability says never, which one wins. That would probably be a DM call. :p You could also just be a normal rogue and do this as well.
I would also argue for buff vs buff there too, but again, this game ISNT PVP! So moving on.
A lot of the examples are theoretical examples. Such as bring in half an army to a fight... or completely setting up an ambush... Then the most important one, setting up the spells per day. DID YOU PICK THOSE SPELLS? I don't know how many times I had where the wizard DIDN'T have the spell he needed. If you set up an ambush for anyone, you would probably win, otherwise that was a crappy ambush.
This game is encounter base, not PVP, a wizard could use many spells for encounters, but he can't KEEP doing those spells all day. While using characters who aren't depending on magic could over come many of those encounters, at less cost to the casters.
Do casters overshadow martial characters? Yes, we all knew that, but can they do everything alone, no.
Again though, this game runs better at lower levels.
I'd like to throw out an option for consideration. I'm going to use a Sorcerer (because I like Sorcerers better than Wizards).
Round 1) Barbarian is on his batty bat. Sorcerer casts Limited Wish from scroll using UMD.. Batty Bat is in Tornado force winds and falls from the sky
Round 2) Barbarian lands and has to close the distance to my Sorcerer. Keep in mind that a tornado is still blowing. Sorcerer casts invisibility.
Round 3) Barbarian might be in combat range. He's taking perception penalties from tornado. Sorcerer casts waves of exhaustion
Round 4) Sorcerer casts major image of himself to give Barbarian something to burn his rage on.
What spell are you limited wishing?
A tornado (175+ mph) destroys all nonfortified buildings and often uproots large trees.
Tornado (CR 10): All flames are extinguished. All ranged attacks are impossible (even with siege weapons), as are sound-based Perception checks. Instead of being blown away (see Table: Wind Effects), characters in close proximity to a tornado who fail their Fortitude saves are sucked toward the tornado. Those who come in contact with the actual funnel cloud are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 rounds, taking 6d6 points of damage per round, before being violently expelled (falling damage might apply). While a tornado's rotational speed can be as great as 300 mph, the funnel itself moves forward at an average of 30 mph (roughly 250 feet per round). A tornado uproots trees, destroys buildings, and causes similar forms of major destruction.
Why aren't you dead?
A tornado (175+ mph) destroys all nonfortified buildings and often uproots large trees.Tornado (CR 10): All flames are extinguished. All ranged attacks are impossible (even with siege weapons), as are sound-based Perception checks. Instead of being blown away (see Table: Wind Effects), characters in close proximity to a tornado who fail their Fortitude saves are sucked toward the tornado. Those who come in contact with the actual funnel cloud are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 rounds, taking 6d6 points of damage per round, before being violently expelled (falling damage might apply). While a tornado's rotational speed can be as great as 300 mph, the funnel itself moves forward at an average of 30 mph (roughly 250 feet per round). A tornado uproots trees, destroys buildings, and causes similar forms of major destruction.Why aren't you dead?
You can make an eye in the center that isn't effected. I am assuming that all is calm in the middle (No concentration checks to cast spells while you can not hear).
Barbarian makes his save. +43 fort bonus trumps what ever the DC is. Bat probably fails and they both go off somewhere. Bat probably dies.
Barbarian charges through storm to find you. Ignoring +175 mph winds with his mighty Fort save. Finds you in the center of the storm (Invisibility is trumped at lvl 20 by cheap perm see invis). Perception DC is only 5 higher to see you.
Waves of exhaustion gets negated by Heart of the fields (usable 1/day). You have to double up on exhaustion spells to prevent rage cycling.
Yay! You killed the BAT. How are you going to escape the eye of a tornado with a barbarian on your tail?
Edit: I know AM BARBARIAN loves his BATY BAT but it is definitely his bigest liability. He needs a higher HD mount. The bat has way to few HP (36) and not enough in the skills department and saves to be effective.
[
Barbarian charges through storm to find you. Ignoring +175 mph winds with his mighty Fort save. Finds you in the center of the storm (Invisibility is trumped at lvl 20 by cheap perm see invis). Perception DC is only 5 higher to see you.
One, See Invisibility is personal.
Two, there are few items of personal spells (for good reason).Three, custom items are bad ways to discuss class ability.
[
Barbarian charges through storm to find you. Ignoring +175 mph winds with his mighty Fort save. Finds you in the center of the storm (Invisibility is trumped at lvl 20 by cheap perm see invis). Perception DC is only 5 higher to see you.
One, See Invisibility is personal.
Two, there are few items of personal spells (for good reason).
Three, custom items are bad ways to discuss class ability.
Good point. Revise it to A gem of seeing. My point was that invisibility can be countered at this level.
you know I was just thinking....
can we not just wish him into the deepest part of space and just watch him die from asphyxiation? or is it too simple?
How to beat am Barbarian play a druid and give him an advanced awakened dire bat so he is friendly to you. With wild empathy you probably could do this.
If he uses Heart of the Fields to ignore the first wave of exhaustion, it's not that difficult for me to cast it again. I'm a Sorcerer, after all.Barbarian is taking falling damage.
If he's coming straight at me (from how far away?) in a tornado despite me being invisible, it kinda gives away that he can see invisible. At which, I can fly. Yes, the tornado is still there, but I'm in an area of calm.
Agree with it all.
Well, there's no facing in PF. You automatically see everything within your line of sight/range.You have to see and notice the animal. I doubt that you fix every bird on trees. If you see, if you were watching right direction...
I'm just trying to show that a lot of rules need to be fixed. This one, the "once a rage" powers, and so on.
And how useless is this tread, even if I enjoy a lot and I'm learning new thing about rules. :)
Well, instead there is. You are not a Xorn, and I'm not talking about combat. Even if you can see all in your line of sight you don't notice automatically everything.
Blindsense bypassed mind blank, and invisibility.I don't bother if Marilith has no competence in armor. I don't think she will have problems on hittin the barbarian.
Btw, it stops the barbarian cause i'm over her, invisible with mind blank.You never mentioned how you can hit a mage with this (even wish can't bypass mund blank).
Again, the purpose of my comments is just to show that some class features need fix, and that a lot of people can't handle the situation that create in a complex environment and complain about the rules.
By the way, now the problem is fighter and knight.
Yes, I told it pages before. But, how you obtain it? And what range? Why I should stay in your blind sense range while I'm invisible?
So, this barbarian could take few damage a round. Not really, because you can't kill the Marilith, despite someone described a barbarian with all rage powers that exist in manuals. With summon she can have 4 creatures adding +8 AC. Even if you kill 2 of them a round, the caster can summon 1d4+1 per round.
Also, a 20th level wizard can "befriend" and summon a 18 hd marilith (maybe 2 level warrior).
If you have superstition, you don't get healing from your party.
This is why my barbarian is not spell proof. Because I play with 5 friends, so better be a strong party than a strong character and a weaker party.
In conclusion, even few dmg per round, you can't find the mage unless he's an idiot, and you can't get heals.
Lonely character die soon.
Now, seem that a lot of people play with an enormous quantity of gold.
If you want game to be balanced reduce the money. If you don't, even war can be invisible with mind blank and cast 9th level spell. You don't need a genius, just gold.
And please, stop with that ridicolous dire bat that can be oneshotted :) Onestly, you can't base your strategy on it!
Agree with it all.
If he uses Heart of the Fields to ignore the first wave of exhaustion, it's not that difficult for me to cast it again. I'm a Sorcerer, after all.Barbarian is taking falling damage.
If he's coming straight at me (from how far away?) in a tornado despite me being invisible, it kinda gives away that he can see invisible. At which, I can fly. Yes, the tornado is still there, but I'm in an area of calm.
Please, read eater of magic and consider that a barbarian can rage cycle (a thing that i don't permit in as a GM).
He absorb the ray, end of the story.Maybe the better strategy is to fly invisible and let him waste his round of rage.
Please, read eater of magic and consider that a barbarian can rage cycle (a thing that i don't permit in as a GM).
He absorb the ray, end of the story.
Maybe the better strategy is to fly invisible and let him waste his round of rage.
why don't you permit rage cycling? it doesn't happen until about level 17 at the earliest. where there are far worse things than rage cycles going on. 9th level spells. yes, they are limited per day, but so are rage cycles. rage cyclers also don't benefit from the Extra Rage induced HP because they ended it on thier own turn. they also don't benefit from rage powers between turns either due to the fact they ended thier rage prematurely. and rage cycling is what makes spell sunder a viable tactic.
You can't use ray of exaustion against a barbarian who has eat magic power. Or maybe, you can, but it has no effect. Even if it pass he can sunder it.
And I don't permit rage ciclyn because it can happen by 9th level if you take 1 oracle level, and permit you to use once per round rage powers, so every round you can absorb a spell and take 1 hp every 3 dmg you should have taken, 1 time same thing with energy damage. Then, you can absorb 1 font of energy damage and eventually strike back next round, and half another energy damage. That means that you are worst than immune to magic. If you want, rage cycle, but as a GM in my campaign the once a rage power became once per encounter.
why don't you permit rage cycling? it doesn't happen until about level 17 at the earliest. where there are far worse things than rage cycles going on. 9th level spells. yes, they are limited per day, but so are rage cycles. rage cyclers also don't benefit from the Extra Rage induced HP because they ended it on thier own turn. they also don't benefit from rage powers between turns either due to the fact they ended thier rage prematurely. and rage cycling is what makes spell sunder a viable tactic.Please, read eater of magic and consider that a barbarian can rage cycle (a thing that i don't permit in as a GM).
He absorb the ray, end of the story.
Maybe the better strategy is to fly invisible and let him waste his round of rage.
What about Oracle (lame)/Barbarians they get Tireless early (from the Curse improving naturally).
What about Oracle (lame)/Barbarians they get Tireless early (from the Curse improving naturally).why don't you permit rage cycling? it doesn't happen until about level 17 at the earliest. where there are far worse things than rage cycles going on. 9th level spells. yes, they are limited per day, but so are rage cycles. rage cyclers also don't benefit from the Extra Rage induced HP because they ended it on thier own turn. they also don't benefit from rage powers between turns either due to the fact they ended thier rage prematurely. and rage cycling is what makes spell sunder a viable tactic.Please, read eater of magic and consider that a barbarian can rage cycle (a thing that i don't permit in as a GM).
He absorb the ray, end of the story.
Maybe the better strategy is to fly invisible and let him waste his round of rage.
i'm fine with that dip. rage cycling has no issues with me. it has it's own penalties built in.