Caster-Martial Disparity Battleground - No Crying.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Dragonsong wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:
This is not a problem- AMF is centered on the caster (who is inside). Pounce will kill him just fine :)
No because pounce is a SU so you lose full attacks on charges as soon as you enter the field.

This is assuming the raging charging lance wielding barbarian needs mroe than one attack.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

CLEARLY FIGHTY AM NOT HEAR OF RIDE BY ATTACK.

BARBARIAN ON BAT AM HAVING ABILITY TO CHARGE - FULL ATTACK - MOVE AGAIN.

UNLESS FIGHTY AM ABLE TO ALSO CHARGE - FULL ATTACK - MOVE AGAIN, ARGUMENT AM UMINPORTANT.

BARBARIAN AM ALSO NOTING THAT RULES TEXT SAY 'CAN' WEILD LANCE ONE HANDED ON MOUNT. ONLY CRAPPY BARBARIAN PAY ATTENTION TO THAT RULE, BECAUSE CAN AM NOT MUST. AM MORE EVIDENCE OF BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN INTELLIGCENCE DESTRUCITY.

BARBARIAN SO SMART, AM INVENTING NEW WAYS TO SPELL INTELLIGCENCE.

UM... BARBARIAN AM FORGETTING WHERE TO GO NEXT WITH POINT. LET BARBARIAN CONSULT 'ARGUING BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN DESTRUCITY ON INTERENTS.' AM PAMPHLET BARBARIAN RITE FOR NEW PEOPLE TO GAME.

OH. FOUND PLACE. UHM. PAST LEVEL 5 ALL COMBAT AM ON NARROW FIELD, ANYONE WHO AM DECLARE OTHERWISE AM NOT PLAYING GAME PROPERLY.

AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT FIGHTY CAN DO DURING FULL ATTACK AM IRRELEVANT AS BATTY BAT AM NEVER GOING TO BE IN RANGE, AND IF FIGHTY AM USING FLY SPELL, BARBARIAN AM USING SPELL SUNDER TO SMASH FLY SPELL.

AM GOOD TRY THO. RIDE BY ATTACK NOT PROVOKE AND LET BARBARIAN REMAIN OUT OF REACH WHILE HAVING REACH, FEATS AM USELESS AGAINST ALL-MIGHTY BARBARIAN.

STOP MOVING GOALPOSTS. ONLY ONE ABLE DO THAT AM CATCHUP GUARD BARBARIAN, AND ONLY BECAUSE CATCHUP GUARD BARBARIAN AM PROFICIENT.

BARBARIAN AM CLEARLY WINNER.

You can move only if you have that much room.If there is object behind me,no more moving.

Also,you cant charge if no straight line to me.Not hard to make it not straight.

Well if if you ever heared for winged boots,you would know you can fly without spell fly.So no fly sunder,and can catch you easily:)

Ah as i see you cant pounce while charging on mount so...no more point in argue than.:)


SOMEONE FAIL WILL SAVE VERSUS STUPID TODAY.

AM PROBLEM WITH FIGHTYS. NO WILL SAVE, EVEN WITH REROLL.

BARBARIAN USE LOWER DC. BARBARIAN AM THINKING FIGHTY HAS GOOD SAVES, BUT CONFUSE FIGHTY WITH BARBARIAN.

FIGHTY AM ALREADY LOST. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WIN EVERYTHING ALWAYS. AM BEATING FIGHTY IN HEAD WITH GOALPOSTS, AM SUNDER FLY BOOTS, AM SUNDER ARMOR, AM SUNDER ALL.

IF AM NOT CLEAR, FIGHTY NEED MORE POINTS IN PERCEPTION.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

AM SUNDER ALL.

YOU HAVE PASSED THE TEST YOUNG BARBARIAN JOIN ME AT MY SHATTERED TABLE AS ONE OF MY FELL AND TERRIBLE SUNDERKNIGHTS!! TAKE UP THE ADAMANTINE LANCE!! MOUNT THINE HALF FIEND RUST MONSTER!! BREAK, SPLINTER, AND SHATTER ALL OBJECTS IN MY NAME!! LET ALL WHO WEAR EXPENSIVE AND NOT-EASILY-REPLACEABLE CLOTHES BEWARE!!!!! CARRY HIM AWAY IN THE MILDLY DAMAGED THRONE MY SUNDERLINGS!! TODAY WE WELCOME A BROTHER!!!


Trinam wrote:

I would like to break character for a moment here just to point out that nobody is trying to clam barbarians lose versus casters anymore, and are instead making super focused melee builds specifically to try and beat a barbarian.

...I think Barbarians may have just become Pathfinder's first full-bab caster.

Naturally, they cast off of STR, and all their spells damage something.

Hmmm noone is trying that.Those meelee build are specifically made to be usefull in all area combat,far from made for barbarian.

And honestly,i think that big investments,feat wise and rage powers wise for sundering are way too much,becuase barbarian will make success on spell sunder almost always anyway.And regular sunder-for armors,weapons for example isnt that popular tbh.On first place as there is very few monsters against who it can be used,plus its a very big loss of money for party if you are breaking loot all the time.

Just my 5 cents.


SEE? EVEN LORD AND SAVIOR AM AGREE.

BARBARIAN ALWAYS WIN.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

SOMEONE FAIL WILL SAVE VERSUS STUPID TODAY.

AM PROBLEM WITH FIGHTYS. NO WILL SAVE, EVEN WITH REROLL.

BARBARIAN USE LOWER DC. BARBARIAN AM THINKING FIGHTY HAS GOOD SAVES, BUT CONFUSE FIGHTY WITH BARBARIAN.

FIGHTY AM ALREADY LOST. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WIN EVERYTHING ALWAYS. AM BEATING FIGHTY IN HEAD WITH GOALPOSTS, AM SUNDER FLY BOOTS, AM SUNDER ARMOR, AM SUNDER ALL.

IF AM NOT CLEAR, FIGHTY NEED MORE POINTS IN PERCEPTION.

Haha that was offence and hard words there.But okay,no bad feeling for barbarians:)

Will use wand of CLW on you,than kill myslef.So you won.Okay,okay,okay!


Improved sunder is to keep you from provoking versus summons or people you're debuffing. I'm not sure if greater sunder has room to fit, but is mostly just there because it's nice to have.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

SEE? EVEN LORD AND SAVIOR AM AGREE.

BARBARIAN ALWAYS WIN.

Haha okay than!I dont have argument against that for sure!:)


Charender wrote:

You show me a level 15 caster that can handle 20 encounters a day and still have the same performance in encounter 20 that they had in performance 1. Casters may have all them flashy spells, but they ain't go no endurance when it comes time to go the distance.

Brox can last all day and still go the distance. Just ask the ladies. Yeah, I went there.


Leongorance wrote:

Haha that was offence and hard words there.But okay,no bad feeling for barbarians:)

Will use wand of CLW on you,than kill myslef.So you won.Okay,okay,okay!

ALWAYS WINNER.


Trinam wrote:
Improved sunder is to keep you from provoking versus summons or people you're debuffing. I'm not sure if greater sunder has room to fit, but is mostly just there because it's nice to have.

Dont think one AOO will hurt you that much.Think it would be better to invest in another feat,as barbs dont have that many other feats.But still thats just my opinion.Love barbarians but didnt played them so often.

Tought maybe there are better rage powers than smasher as well.Maybe even better than STR surge.Not sure about last one though.


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?


I've noticed that 80% of feats after raging vitality and power attack are extra rage power.

As for strength surge, it lets me sunder, or give a flat 'no' to any combat manuver

Smasher is generally used alongside heart of the fields, which gives a bonus to profession (engineer).

Now that I know which beam supports the wizards tower....


Leongorance wrote:


Ah as i see you cant pounce while charging on mount so...no more point in argue than.:)

There is nothing in the rules that states that when you charge on a mount you do not get all the benefits and penalties that you would have if not mounted. There is no difference. And just for specifics of previous board questions regarding pounce and mounted combat, there is one thread.

Here it is:
Pounce+Mounted combat

So I am pretty sure you can pounce while mounted. You would get your full attack and your mount gets its one attack (unless it has pounce too - LOL).


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Leongorance wrote:


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?

AM BARBARIAN/BARBARIAN/FIGHTY/FIGHTY. FIGHTYS AM ARCHERS WITH BARBARIAN LEVELS. AM SPELL SUNDER AT 2500 FEET AWAY.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:
Leongorance wrote:


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?

AM BARBARIAN/BARBARIAN/FIGHTY/FIGHTY. FIGHTYS AM ARCHERS WITH BARBARIAN LEVELS. AM SPELL SUNDER AT 2500 FEET AWAY.

In all honesty....against a caster party, the fightys are just liabilities. They are more than likely out in the first round before they get to go. Anyone have a Fighty with a will save bonus above 20 to prove me wrong?


Long range spells max at 1200 feet. Archers double that.

Who needs saves?


Lab_Rat wrote:
Leongorance wrote:


Ah as i see you cant pounce while charging on mount so...no more point in argue than.:)

There is nothing in the rules that states that when you charge on a mount you do not get all the benefits and penalties that you would have if not mounted. There is no difference. And just for specifics of previous board questions regarding pounce and mounted combat, there is one thread.

Here it is:
Pounce+Mounted combat

So I am pretty sure you can pounce while mounted. You would get your full attack and your mount gets its one attack (unless it has pounce too - LOL).

Well opinions are different.In charge description it say YOU move double your speed.And pounce allows you to full attack after chrage.So basically as mount is moving,you arent charging,its mount.So its much more realistic that you cant.But that needs another thread i guess.


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BARBARIAN AM POINTING OUT THAT BE FIAT TO KEEP BARBARIAN FROM OVERPOWERING CASTYS.

MARTIAL AM NEED FIAT TO BALANCE WITH CASTY.

SHOE AM ON WHOLE NOTHER FOOT NOW!


Lab_Rat wrote:
AM BARBARIAN wrote:
Leongorance wrote:


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?

AM BARBARIAN/BARBARIAN/FIGHTY/FIGHTY. FIGHTYS AM ARCHERS WITH BARBARIAN LEVELS. AM SPELL SUNDER AT 2500 FEET AWAY.
In all honesty....against a caster party, the fightys are just liabilities. They are more than likely out in the first round before they get to go. Anyone have a Fighty with a will save bonus above 20 to prove me wrong?

Well like this for example.Playing one atm.

Dwarf fighter.20 point buy.16str(10 points),13dex(3),15 con(3),13 int(3),14 wis(2)+6 helm which is very very good for fighters later,at least will get one=20,7 cha(-1).

so will save:6base,5wis,4 steel soul,2 iron will,5 cloak,1 trait,1 iouns tone.So total of 24 and reroll unbuffed.paladin in group you can add his charisma to will svaves.It can go 35+ and reroll.Thats buffed true.

But still 24 with reroll is pretty pretty nice.Dont know how much other martial classes can get exactly,but i guess pally,barb,monk can get high as well.


Leongorance wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:
AM BARBARIAN wrote:
Leongorance wrote:


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?

AM BARBARIAN/BARBARIAN/FIGHTY/FIGHTY. FIGHTYS AM ARCHERS WITH BARBARIAN LEVELS. AM SPELL SUNDER AT 2500 FEET AWAY.
In all honesty....against a caster party, the fightys are just liabilities. They are more than likely out in the first round before they get to go. Anyone have a Fighty with a will save bonus above 20 to prove me wrong?

Well like this for example.Playing one atm.

Dwarf fighter.20 point buy.16str(10 points),13dex(3),15 con(3),13 int(3),14 wis(2)+6 helm which is very very good for fighters later,at least will get one=20,7 cha(-1).

so will save:6base,5wis,4 steel soul,2 iron will,5 cloak,1 trait,1 iouns tone.So total of 24 and reroll unbuffed.paladin in group you can add his charisma to will svaves.It can go 35+ and reroll.Thats buffed true.

But still 24 with reroll is pretty pretty nice.Dont know how much other martial classes can get exactly,but i guess pally,barb,monk can get high as well.

And main feat tree is for ray shield(once per round ignoring range touch attacks),reflecting property on shield(getting spell back on caster on per day),ring of spell turning(27 lvl of spells absorbing per day) and ioun stone can get there as well for another 50 lvls of spell to ignore(from 1st to 8th spel lvls are affected thou).With this in combination with those saves make fighter as well very very strong against spells.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN AM POINTING OUT THAT BE FIAT TO KEEP BARBARIAN FROM OVERPOWERING CASTYS.

MARTIAL AM NEED FIAT TO BALANCE WITH CASTY.

SHOE AM ON WHOLE NOTHER FOOT NOW!

Haha need one like you in our group tbh!

P.S.We are playing atm,and we just got black tentackled.Pretty nasty spell tbh:)


i know, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced intrusion do wreck encounters. the reason why is because it literally binds and violates the intimate rights of most level approrpiate humanoid opposition.

it was intended as the perfect mass raping implement, but because it was built for that purpose, and because of the similarities between foreplay and wrestling. the spell is literally the perfect grappling tool.

the Designers of D&D were clearly sad lonely human males. and some of thier frustration leaked into the game. the original 'magic user' was clearly an overpowered means for these geeks to project thier fantasies of 'power'.

the reason the fighter used to get an army, was to make the fighter feel special until the moment when the magic user obliterated his entire force with a single spell.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

i know, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced intrusion do wreck encounters. the reason why is because it literally binds and violates the intimate rights of most level approrpiate humanoid opposition.

it was intended as the perfect mass raping implement, but because it was built for that purpose, and because of the similarities between foreplay and wrestling. the spell is literally the perfect grappling tool.

the Designers of D&D were clearly sad lonely human males. and some of thier frustration leaked into the game.

YOUR VIRGINITY IS SHATTERED!! SO DECREES LORD SUNDERRRR!!!!


LORD SUNDER wrote:
Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

i know, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced intrusion do wreck encounters. the reason why is because it literally binds and violates the intimate rights of most level approrpiate humanoid opposition.

it was intended as the perfect mass raping implement, but because it was built for that purpose, and because of the similarities between foreplay and wrestling. the spell is literally the perfect grappling tool.

the Designers of D&D were clearly sad lonely human males. and some of thier frustration leaked into the game.

YOUR VIRGINITY IS SHATTERED!! SO DECREES LORD SUNDERRRR!!!!

you got it.

because of parent complaints about the spell, it had to be censored.

mage hand was literally designed for ranged groping and skirt lifts.

a lot of these classic spells had perverted purposes.

charm/dominate line was designed for seduction.


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BARBARIAN AM VERY VERY GLAD FOR STRENGTH SURGE RIGHT NOW.

NOT MUCH AM GRAPPLING BARBARIAN UNLESS BARBARIAN WANT BE GRAPPLED.

...

NOT SURE IF EVER LET LORD SUNDER GRAPPLE BARBARIAN. PROBABLY NOT.

SEONI AM GRAPPLE BARBARIAN ANYTIME.


Leongorance wrote:


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?

Paladins and Rangers are casters. You can run a cavalier instead.

Team Caster is going to be something like Bard, Oracle, Druid, Wizard. It's going to be an awfully one sided battle.


Atarlost wrote:

Paladins and Rangers are casters. You can run a cavalier instead.

a paladin is no more a caster than a barbarian, ninja or monk is.

they hardly have a sufficient casting focus to be called even partial casters.

oh, they get a few spells, so do the monk, the ninja and the barbarian.

Spell Sunder is just a wannabe dispel magic

abundant step is clearly a lesser dimension door

and vanishing trick is obviously an invisibility variant


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
Atarlost wrote:

Paladins and Rangers are casters. You can run a cavalier instead.

a paladin is no more a caster than a barbarian, ninja or monk is.

they hardly have a sufficient casting focus to be called even partial casters.

oh, they get a few spells, so do the monk, the ninja and the barbarian.

Spell Sunder is just a wannabe dispel magic

abundant step is clearly a lesser dimension door

and vanishing trick is obviously an invisibility variant

I shouldn't need to explain the difference between a supernatural ability and a spell, nor between a handful of SU abilities and this or this.


PLEASE EXPLAIN.

BARBARIAN AM UNABLE TO FOLLOW LOGIC. AM ONLY INT 7.


i know paladins and rangers get a small amount of spells. but at the point they gain these spells, and how slowly thier spellcasting advances. i wouldn't consider them true casters. thier limited focus on casting is hardly worth actually calling them casters. maybe martials with a few magical tricks. the ninja, monk, and barbarian gain a few magical tricks as well. it's just that these magical tricks don't use the spellcasting mechanic like the paladin and ranger ones do.

there is a difference between having a few magical tricks, and actually being a caster. even if those magical tricks use the spellcasting mechanic.

i also do not see a sufficient difference between spells and supernatural abilties to actually consider them different.


The paladin has 39 Paizo published spells on his list that he can cast at level 4 if he has 12 charisma. At level 7 with 14 charisma, level 8 with 12 or 13 he gets another 27. A level 10 paladin with 16 charisma has 77 spells to choose from. The Paladin has all of them in his holy golf bag. A level 10 quinggong monk can boast a mere 22 options that aren't feats or passive class abilities normal monks possess. The 10th level quinggong monk actually has four of them. A paladin has a caster level. He can qualify for one end of the mystic theurge prestige class. He can use spell completion items for spells on his list without a UMD check. He can qualify for crafting feats without requiring master craftsman.


I gotta agree here.

As a switch hitting Ranger, casting is not really my focus (aside from some BIG love for Instant Enemy)
Ask any Paladin or Ranger what he does for a livng and he will not answer 'I'm a magicuser'

Anyway That all martial party would work just fine.

Me (Switch Hit STR Ranger/Wolf Trip Buddy)
AM BARBARIAN (Mounted Lance Pouncer)
Aden of The Shield (Luring Statagist Switch Hit Cavalier)
Dugald Paladinson (Mounted Spirited Charge, TWF Oath of Vengence)

Me and Aden can do the Shooting (if Required- Aden uses drill sergent to grant everybody Coordinated Charge)
Me and Dugald Can share healing, Dugald can lay on hands for condition removal
Me and Wolfie can scout (with the rest only a mounted Charge away)

Standard tactic- AM BARBARIAN and Dugald Paladinson go up the guts, shrugging of Magic and drawing attention. Me and Move in from opposite flanks (full attack shooting). Meet in the middle- where all the bodies are.

BTW AM BARBARIAN doesn't HAVE to destroy all the loot. If he takes SUNDER ENCANTMENT rage power, a successful sunder attempt (so first strike, BEFORE completely wrecked) and the item's magical properties are supressed for a round or 3.

So AM BARBARIAN sunders +5 Full Plate with Sunder Enchantment (Item loses Enhancement bonus) then uses remaining attackts to Dazing Assault enemy. Enemy dies. LOOT LIVES.


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Atarlost wrote:
The paladin has 39 Paizo published spells on his list that he can cast at level 4 if he has 12 charisma. At level 7 with 14 charisma, level 8 with 12 or 13 he gets another 27. A level 10 paladin with 16 charisma has 77 spells to choose from. The Paladin has all of them in his holy golf bag. A level 10 quinggong monk can boast a mere 22 options that aren't feats or passive class abilities normal monks possess. The 10th level quinggong monk actually has four of them. A paladin has a caster level. He can qualify for one end of the mystic theurge prestige class. He can use spell completion items for spells on his list without a UMD check. He can qualify for crafting feats without requiring master craftsman.

I think the point being made is that both classes can function without that spell list. There have even been archetypes both published officially and in 3pp to that effect. This is something you could not easily replicate in bards and inquisitors and impossible to replicate in full casters (well maybe druid). Most paladins and rangers don't rely on spellcasting either. Some may only ever cast those few utility or buffing spells that put them on par with their non casting brethren. Heck, getting something like say Spellcraft is typically beyond the scope of what either a ranger or paladin might do.

So in a sense they're about as much casters as alchemists and clerics are martial.


TarkXT wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
The paladin has 39 Paizo published spells on his list that he can cast at level 4 if he has 12 charisma. At level 7 with 14 charisma, level 8 with 12 or 13 he gets another 27. A level 10 paladin with 16 charisma has 77 spells to choose from. The Paladin has all of them in his holy golf bag. A level 10 quinggong monk can boast a mere 22 options that aren't feats or passive class abilities normal monks possess. The 10th level quinggong monk actually has four of them. A paladin has a caster level. He can qualify for one end of the mystic theurge prestige class. He can use spell completion items for spells on his list without a UMD check. He can qualify for crafting feats without requiring master craftsman.

I think the point being made is that both classes can function without that spell list. There have even been archetypes both published officially and in 3pp to that effect. This is something you could not easily replicate in bards and inquisitors and impossible to replicate in full casters (well maybe druid). Most paladins and rangers don't rely on spellcasting either. Some may only ever cast those few utility or buffing spells that put them on par with their non casting brethren. Heck, getting something like say Spellcraft is typically beyond the scope of what either a ranger or paladin might do.

So in a sense they're about as much casters as alchemists and clerics are martial.

Tark said my intended point much better than i could.


You can maybe argue they don't really belong on either side, but the defining characteristic of non-casters is not having caster levels or spell lists.

If you're listing your preferred all martial team and it includes paladin over the thematically similar cavalier you're already admitting that magic classes are better.


Atarlost wrote:

You can maybe argue they don't really belong on either side, but the defining characteristic of non-casters is not having caster levels or spell lists.

If you're listing your preferred all martial team and it includes paladin over the thematically similar cavalier you're already admitting that magic classes are better.

What if it's a spelless paladin or ranger?


Atarlost wrote:

You can maybe argue they don't really belong on either side, but the defining characteristic of non-casters is not having caster levels or spell lists.

If you're listing your preferred all martial team and it includes paladin over the thematically similar cavalier you're already admitting that magic classes are better.

the designers realized that a pure martial class wasn't sufficient when they produced the APG, it was too late to rewrite the nonmagical classes. so they gave them optional magical abilities whenever they could justify it to themselves. sometimes in the form of spells, or similar magical abilities. look at some of the newer rage powers that came out after the core book, the quinggong monk, and even the ninja subclass. these were clearly designed to give othwerwise nonmagical classes access to magical powers that they didn't have before.

yes, i did trim this post drastically.


a party working together as one unit is far stronger than an equivalent group of individuals.

forget whether or not you are a martial or a caster and learn to accept, that you class has it's unique perks. and that sometimes, you will require another to solve a problem you cannot. no man is an army unto himself.


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BARBARIAN AM WONDER ALOUD IF ORACLE AM CASTY CLASS IF CHARACTER INVOLVED AM HAVING 7 CHA.

THEN AM WONDER IF COUNT IF HAVE 11 CHA.

BARBARIAN DRAMATICALLY PAUSE FOR PROFOUND THOUGHT.

BARBARIAN AM MOSTLY LIKE ORACLE FOR FATIGUE IMMUNITY, AND ONLY ON THINGS THAT AM NOT BARBARIAN 20.

ONLY REASON TO TAKE CASTY CLASS AM TO GET DELICIOUS ABILITIES THAT AM MAKING BARBARIAN BETTER.

AM ONLY ONE CASTY CLASS WITH SUCH ABILITY.

CLEARLY, ONLY CASTY CLASS AM WORTH ANYTHING AM ORACLE, AND NOT ABOVE ORACLE 1.

BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN DESTRUCITY AM DEEPENING. AM BEST CLASS.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:


BARBARIAN DRAMATICALLY PAUSE FOR PROFOUND THOUGHT.

This might take a while.


go ahead, take a 1 level splash in oracle. it comes with interesting perks that go beyond fatigue immunity.

you gain the ability to use scrolls and wands of oracle/cleric spells. meaning you can touch yourself with a wand of cure light wounds, without blowing skill points. you don't need charisma for this benefit.

you get cantrips that may expand your options, like light (makes those tunnels easier for you to see through) create water (when you are thirsty) purify food and drink (so you don't get food poisoning) and detect magic, which situationally may help you find magic traps when the rogue fails. and these cantrips only require a charisma of 10.


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BARBARIAN PROFOUND THOUGHT AM COMPLETE.

Atarlost wrote:

You can maybe argue they don't really belong on either side, but the defining characteristic of non-casters is not having caster levels or spell lists.

If you're listing your preferred all martial team and it includes paladin over the thematically similar cavalier you're already admitting that magic classes are better.

IF CASTYS AM LISTING PREFERRED ALL CASTY TEAM AND THEY AM SUMMONING OR HAVING ANIMAL COMPANIONS OR EIDOLONS, AM ALREADY ADMITTING THAT CASTYS AM DIE WITHOUT MARTIAL CHARACTERS.

WHICH ALL CASTY TEAMS AM HAVING.

...YEP. BARBARIAN LOGIC AM FLAWLESS. BARBARIAN TAKE 20.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN PROFOUND THOUGHT AM COMPLETE.

Atarlost wrote:

You can maybe argue they don't really belong on either side, but the defining characteristic of non-casters is not having caster levels or spell lists.

If you're listing your preferred all martial team and it includes paladin over the thematically similar cavalier you're already admitting that magic classes are better.

IF CASTYS AM LISTING PREFERRED ALL CASTY TEAM AND THEY AM SUMMONING OR HAVING ANIMAL COMPANIONS OR EIDOLONS, AM ALREADY ADMITTING THAT CASTYS AM DIE WITHOUT MARTIAL CHARACTERS.

WHICH ALL CASTY TEAMS AM HAVING.

...YEP. BARBARIAN LOGIC AM FLAWLESS. BARBARIAN TAKE 20.

of course, but then there are also martials that cast spells and attempt to combine the 2 into a seemless art.

these 'martials' may not deal the damage of an optimized fighter or barbarian all day long. but they do have moments where they temporarily become better.

such examples are every magus, most inquisitors, some alchemists, and certain bards.

they may take a little more bookeeping, but it's harder to fail with them. a fighter or barbarian is easier to account for, but it's harder to make mistakes with an inquisitor or magus.


As stated earlier,any class that can pass the wuss screening test outlined earlier is welcome among us Martials. They are NOT required, but foolish is the warrior who turns down a capable ally.

We simply prefer our casters with some (figureatively speaking) BALLS!! They certainly have thier uses: Band-aid, Taxi cab, Fixing all the gear AM BARBARIAN constantly breaks. But until you show us you can hold your own in close, you're relegated to the grandstands.

Some of my BEST Friends are Casters- The Arcane Duelist, Dervish Dancer, Magus and Inquisitor are all VERY capable with a sword and so I count them as brothers. The Magus actually has the MOST value to us, since he gets the Majority of Beneficial Arcane Spells we care about: Fly, Teleport, Haste, Enlarge Person, Invisibility, Displacement, GTR Magic Weapon AND he can do it while Fighting.

Makes the Wizard look like a real slacker actually...


Atarlost wrote:
Leongorance wrote:


And finally on thread not...As this isnt 1vs1.Wander who would won in 4 casters vs 4martials,for example fight?

I guess martial side is best to have paladin,monk,barbarian and fighter?

Paladins and Rangers are casters. You can run a cavalier instead.

Team Caster is going to be something like Bard, Oracle, Druid, Wizard. It's going to be an awfully one sided battle.

Have to disagree there with you.Paladins and rtangers are far more martials than casters.

Theye much more use there martial powers(full attack) than they use spells,oposite to real casters(wizards,druids,bards etc) that use spells much more often,if not always.

Would love to know why it would be awfully one sided battle?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

My guess is Druidzilla and Fluffy Destroyer of Worlds is tanking the brutes, Oracle is keeping everyone Full of Life, Bard is handing out Insane Buffs to everyone, and God Wizard is molding the field to his whims, which consist of Ending All Opposition.

Just a guess.


STR Ranger wrote:

I gotta agree here.

As a switch hitting Ranger, casting is not really my focus (aside from some BIG love for Instant Enemy)
Ask any Paladin or Ranger what he does for a livng and he will not answer 'I'm a magicuser'

Anyway That all martial party would work just fine.

Me (Switch Hit STR Ranger/Wolf Trip Buddy)
AM BARBARIAN (Mounted Lance Pouncer)
Aden of The Shield (Luring Statagist Switch Hit Cavalier)
Dugald Paladinson (Mounted Spirited Charge, TWF Oath of Vengence)

Me and Aden can do the Shooting (if Required- Aden uses drill sergent to grant everybody Coordinated Charge)
Me and Dugald Can share healing, Dugald can lay on hands for condition removal
Me and Wolfie can scout (with the rest only a mounted Charge away)

Standard tactic- AM BARBARIAN and Dugald Paladinson go up the guts, shrugging of Magic and drawing attention. Me and Move in from opposite flanks (full attack shooting). Meet in the middle- where all the bodies are.

BTW AM BARBARIAN doesn't HAVE to destroy all the loot. If he takes SUNDER ENCANTMENT rage power, a successful sunder attempt (so first strike, BEFORE completely wrecked) and the item's magical properties are supressed for a round or 3.

So AM BARBARIAN sunders +5 Full Plate with Sunder Enchantment (Item loses Enhancement bonus) then uses remaining attackts to Dazing Assault enemy. Enemy dies. LOOT LIVES.

Well that is third rage power and 2 feats invested just for sundering.Think its alot investment.And its not that easy for armor to be destroyed.On very most levels you will need some rounds to waste to sunder.And on later lvls adamantine armors arent that rare anymore.

And for that party.It depends on teritory mostly for fights.If you are talking about big teritory where ranges have space to shoot.Than you can take paladin with bestow grace and 3 fighter archers with some lvls of barbarian,and most of caster wont even start turn.But as i said it all depends on terrain.

I was more thinking of some kind of fighting arena,where is mostly fair conditions for everyone.Saw in UC some dueling rules withinh dueling arena.So that was place i tought of mostly,as it is most fair for 4vs4 combat for example.And it cant be 2 of same class,so 4 different.Something like that.Could be fun.

There i would go for paladin,monk,barabrian and fighter on martial side.


TriOmegaZero wrote:

My guess is Druidzilla and Fluffy Destroyer of Worlds is tanking the brutes, Oracle is keeping everyone Full of Life, Bard is handing out Insane Buffs to everyone, and God Wizard is molding the field to his whims, which consist of Ending All Opposition.

Just a guess.

Could be possible ye.Initiative is also very important.And still,can be some other way.Like monk taking on wizard on first turn,palading giving fighter saves(like bestow grace) so he save extremely easly and than killing bard or oracle in full attack on his turn.Wander fluffy and druid can tank off barbarian for long period of time.

Would be very interesting to have that kind of fight i guess.

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