Proton Cannon!


Rules Questions


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Ever wanted to do this:

Hyper Combo Finish!

Well now you can.

Step 1: Titan Mauler Archetype
Step 2: Huge (Or larger) fire arm
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit!

How does that happen? pg. 136 of Ultimate Combat specifically states that the size of a firearm does not affect how many hands you need to shoot it, therefore a Titan Mauler (who decreases the penalties for weilding larger weapons) would be able to fire off a Huge weapon with one hand. If they want, the could go all the way to Gargantuan or larger for a cumulative -2 penalty.

Everyone should rule as they see fit, but I'm actually wanting to see this happen at least once in a game I run.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Jeranimus Rex wrote:

Ever wanted to do this:

Hyper Combo Finish!

Well now you can.

Step 1: Titan Mauler Archetype
Step 2: Huge (Or larger) fire arm
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit!

How does that happen? pg. 136 of Ultimate Combat specifically states that the size of a firearm does not affect how many hands you need to shoot it, therefore a Titan Mauler (who decreases the penalties for weilding larger weapons) would be able to fire off a Huge weapon with one hand. If they want, the could go all the way to Gargantuan or larger for a cumulative -2 penalty.

Everyone should rule as they see fit, but I'm actually wanting to see this happen at least once in a game I run.

Genius.

Actually, with jotungrip they could do it with 2 of em. they can wield 2 handers as one handers, so they could hold a two handed gargantuan firearm in each hand and do it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jeranimus Rex wrote:

Ever wanted to do this:

Hyper Combo Finish!

Well now you can.

Step 1: Titan Mauler Archetype
Step 2: Huge (Or larger) fire arm
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit!

How does that happen? pg. 136 of Ultimate Combat specifically states that the size of a firearm does not affect how many hands you need to shoot it, therefore a Titan Mauler (who decreases the penalties for weilding larger weapons) would be able to fire off a Huge weapon with one hand. If they want, the could go all the way to Gargantuan or larger for a cumulative -2 penalty.

Everyone should rule as they see fit, but I'm actually wanting to see this happen at least once in a game I run.

For even More Better Ridiculousity (tm) use a Pepperbox of Speed and a wondrous item which gives one a permanent Reloading Hands spell effect.

Time to take Ol' Painless out of the bag


Oh God.

Someone please tell me that there is something in RAW to stop this.


You do realize that in order to afford that the player has to be nearly 20th level right? The custom wondrous item is 48k by itself add in a +4 weapon. Not to mention you will ONLY get all 6 shots off when you have a +16 BaB.

That said, yes, yes it is a horrific broken thing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
SimianChaos wrote:

You do realize that in order to afford that the player has to be nearly 20th level right? The custom wondrous item is 48k by itself add in a +4 weapon. Not to mention you will ONLY get all 6 shots off when you have a +16 BaB.

aaaaaaand? What's to stop him from just commissioning a gargantuan musket? or 2?


Of course, said Titan Mauler needs to a) learn to use firearms, and b) find or make a gun that big. These are not impossible to overcome, but you'd have to dedicate a lot of resources to it, meaning it would be that much harder to actually get to 20th level.


Matt Stich wrote:
SimianChaos wrote:

You do realize that in order to afford that the player has to be nearly 20th level right? The custom wondrous item is 48k by itself add in a +4 weapon. Not to mention you will ONLY get all 6 shots off when you have a +16 BaB.

aaaaaaand? What's to stop him from just commissioning a gargantuan musket? or 2?

Absolutely nothing except nebulous things such as resources, finding a facility which can even craft such a thing, someone skilled enough to craft such a thing. Then there is the logistics of him loading such a thing and keeping all that black powder from exploding constantly (remember, in large quantities it's unstable! :) )

In response to the crafting of it one could also hire a decently leveled wizard to use Fabricate, you still have to get the materials for it.


SimianChaos wrote:
Not to mention you will ONLY get all 6 shots off when you have a +16 BaB.

What?!?! Only a +16 to hit with a touch attack? That will be tough... oh, wait...


Sean Mahoney wrote:
SimianChaos wrote:
Not to mention you will ONLY get all 6 shots off when you have a +16 BaB.
What?!?! Only a +16 to hit with a touch attack? That will be tough... oh, wait...

1) That avatar looks like Nicolas Cage and it creeps me out that he is STARING A HOLE IN MY MONITOR!

2) By that I mean your not pulling this trick off until at least level 16 and at that point there are worse more horribly twisted and broken things one can do. Also at that level it is quite easy to take game breaking toys away from players.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
SimianChaos wrote:

Absolutely nothing except nebulous things such as resources, finding a facility which can even craft such a thing, someone skilled enough to craft such a thing. Then there is the logistics of him loading such a thing and keeping all that black powder from exploding constantly (remember, in large quantities it's unstable! :) )

Meh, all you need is a gunsmith who can make one now. the mechanisms would be the same, only a lot bigger. You have a point about the black powder. It would take a whole keg to load one of those beasts. Best part? Rapid Reload. Standard action ;)


Unless I'm mistaken, you'd need the same amount of black powder for a Huge firearm as you would for a Medium one. Just went back through the firearm section and didn't see anything about larger sized firearms taking more powder.

Liberty's Edge

SimianChaos wrote:


In response to the crafting of it one could also hire a decently leveled wizard to use Fabricate, you still have to get the materials for it.

A wizard with the skill to make guns:

PRD: Fabricate wrote:
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
Matt Stich wrote:
SimianChaos wrote:

Absolutely nothing except nebulous things such as resources, finding a facility which can even craft such a thing, someone skilled enough to craft such a thing. Then there is the logistics of him loading such a thing and keeping all that black powder from exploding constantly (remember, in large quantities it's unstable! :) )

Meh, all you need is a gunsmith who can make one now. the mechanisms would be the same, only a lot bigger. You have a point about the black powder. It would take a whole keg to load one of those beasts. Best part? Rapid Reload. Standard action ;)

Not really. You weapon need to be specifically crafted to resist the way higher stress to which it will be subjected.

Simply "enlarging" the design of a smaller weapon will get you a weapon that will self destruct most of the time.


Diego Rossi wrote:
SimianChaos wrote:


In response to the crafting of it one could also hire a decently leveled wizard to use Fabricate, you still have to get the materials for it.

A wizard with the skill to make guns:

PRD: Fabricate wrote:
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
Matt Stich wrote:
SimianChaos wrote:

Absolutely nothing except nebulous things such as resources, finding a facility which can even craft such a thing, someone skilled enough to craft such a thing. Then there is the logistics of him loading such a thing and keeping all that black powder from exploding constantly (remember, in large quantities it's unstable! :) )

Meh, all you need is a gunsmith who can make one now. the mechanisms would be the same, only a lot bigger. You have a point about the black powder. It would take a whole keg to load one of those beasts. Best part? Rapid Reload. Standard action ;)

Not really. You weapon need to be specifically crafted to resist the way higher stress to which it will be subjected.

Simply "enlarging" the design of a smaller weapon will get you a weapon that will self destruct most of the time.

While that is true with real world physics, Pathfinder has no rules for real world physics. Otherwise, if I cast Enlarge Person on someone, it would be a great DE-buff, since it could theoretically cause them to collapse under their own weight.

And, RAW, a firearm requires one bullet and one dose of black powder (or w/e). If you want, you can double the cost after each size category (as that's how they work normally...)

Further, I see no real reason to make full attacks when you could just vital strike/deadshot. Whee!

And yeah, the standard action or less reload part is great.


People keep handwaving the construction, but you realize you could only get such a thing commissioned in one small part in Golarion, right? And, afaik, Alkenstar wants to limit the amount of guns they export, so there may be a lot of convincing to do. If there are similar restrictions on guns in whatever world you are playing in, you'll have the same problems.

And of course, anything you can do to the GM, the GM can do to you.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:

People keep handwaving the construction, but you realize you could only get such a thing commissioned in one small part in Golarion, right? And, afaik, Alkenstar wants to limit the amount of guns they export, so there may be a lot of convincing to do. If there are similar restrictions on guns in whatever world you are playing in, you'll have the same problems.

And of course, anything you can do to the GM, the GM can do to you.

Those are both questions of fiat. While the feasibility of a Colossal Pepperbox is definably in question, that doesn't or shouldn't foreclose the discussion of desirability.

In other words, just because it's difficult or improbable to get to that point, doesn't mean we can't talk about the implications of achieving it. And while it's true Alkenstar might not be keen on the idea (And really, giant unweildly guns are probably OK, since only specific people can use them) Numeria is a land of super science that might have musket like guns floating around for Hulk Busters to pick up.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:

People keep handwaving the construction, but you realize you could only get such a thing commissioned in one small part in Golarion, right? And, afaik, Alkenstar wants to limit the amount of guns they export, so there may be a lot of convincing to do. If there are similar restrictions on guns in whatever world you are playing in, you'll have the same problems.

And of course, anything you can do to the GM, the GM can do to you.

Or literally any gunslinger or person with the "gunsmithing" feat could just straight up make one for 1/2 what it would normally cost. As far as crafting goes, handwaving the specifics is inherent in the system..


Funny how the day after the post a couple more thread come up with more thematically appropriate names.

I should probably stop coming up with silly thread titles in all caps.


Jeranimus Rex wrote:

Funny how the day after the post a couple more thread come up with more thematically appropriate names.

I should probably stop coming up with silly thread titles in all caps.

WRONG!! thread titles that are all in caps is the correct way to go. :p

I am wondering if I should make this character and drop scattershot into this gun. Build a collosal gun, then enlarge person myself for a truly large weapon dice area attack.

Though this is a beautiful waste of barbarian lvls. What am I using my rage for? It might just be equally worthwhile to go into another class shortly after lvl 3 or 6 of barb. Funny enough I went looking for a pathfinder archetype that trades out rage(foolish considering how much of barbarian is based around rage/rage powers)


Could be fun for switch hitting.

Or going the natural weapon route?


thepuregamer wrote:
Jeranimus Rex wrote:

Funny how the day after the post a couple more thread come up with more thematically appropriate names.

I should probably stop coming up with silly thread titles in all caps.

WRONG!! thread titles that are all in caps is the correct way to go. :p

I am wondering if I should make this character and drop scattershot into this gun. Build a collosal gun, then enlarge person myself for a truly large weapon dice area attack.

Though this is a beautiful waste of barbarian lvls. What am I using my rage for? It might just be equally worthwhile to go into another class shortly after lvl 3 or 6 of barb. Funny enough I went looking for a pathfinder archetype that trades out rage(foolish considering how much of barbarian is based around rage/rage powers)

Enlarge Person doesn't work that way, as soon as you release an object it returns to it's natural size.

d20pfsrd wrote:


Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.


oh yeah, I temporarily forgot about that.

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