Guy Humual wrote: Thread Resurrection!
So Ultimate Equipment is here and the sword cane did indeed get a small upgrade! The sword cane is now usable with weapon fineness but strangely it looses it's ability to be used as a two handed weapon. I'm happy to see the slight improvement, the sword cane is still about as useful as a club to most people but with weapon finesses it's now a deadlier weapon in the right hands.
So like a rapier but with a lower crit chance? I'll take it.
This Ultimate Combat book may be worth getting after all.
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Kais86 wrote: For style you fool. Watch the Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movie, that will answer your question. "For style you fool." is quite possibly my favorite thing I have ever read on these forums. Bravo, bravo.
Please note that Ultimate Equipment changed the sword cane a little bit.
Ultimate Equipment, pg 38 wrote:
This slender light blade lies within a wooden container that serves as both its scabbard and hiding place. You can draw the blade as a swift action (or a free action if you have the Quick Draw feat). An observer must succeed at a DC 20 Perception check to realize an undrawn sword cane is a weapon rather than a walking stick; the DC decreases to 10 if the observer is able to handle the weapon. You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a sword cane sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a sword cane in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your strength modifier to damage.
It should be noted that the Advanced Player's Guide does not include the line about the Sword Cane being finessable. Basically, its a rapier that trades the crit modifier for the ability to be hidden, which is what the weapon was basically intended to be in the real world.
Alexander Augunas wrote: Please note that Ultimate Equipment changed the sword cane a little bit.
Ultimate Equipment, pg 38 wrote:
This slender light blade lies within a wooden container that serves as both its scabbard and hiding place. You can draw the blade as a swift action (or a free action if you have the Quick Draw feat). An observer must succeed at a DC 20 Perception check to realize an undrawn sword cane is a weapon rather than a walking stick; the DC decreases to 10 if the observer is able to handle the weapon. You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a sword cane sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a sword cane in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your strength modifier to damage.
It should be noted that the Advanced Player's Guide does not include the line about the Sword Cane being finessable. Basically, its a rapier that trades the crit modifier for the ability to be hidden, which is what the weapon was basically intended to be in the real world.
Yep, this is why I resurrected this thread :)
I felt that letting the sword cane be finesse able was the absolute minimum needed to make it a martial weapon, and I don't know if anyone involved with the book had a look at this thread, but it appears that they gave the sword cane the basic upgrade. They also changed the fact that you can't make two handed attacks with this weapon, which is something I felt the rapier needed, and so I'm willing to take the change to the sword cane as well.
I'd have liked a threat increase, I think this might be the only sword that doesn't have increased threat at the moment, but I am happy that the sword cane got the ability to use finesses.
Guy Humual wrote: Alexander Augunas wrote: Please note that Ultimate Equipment changed the sword cane a little bit.
Ultimate Equipment, pg 38 wrote:
This slender light blade lies within a wooden container that serves as both its scabbard and hiding place. You can draw the blade as a swift action (or a free action if you have the Quick Draw feat). An observer must succeed at a DC 20 Perception check to realize an undrawn sword cane is a weapon rather than a walking stick; the DC decreases to 10 if the observer is able to handle the weapon. You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a sword cane sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a sword cane in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your strength modifier to damage.
It should be noted that the Advanced Player's Guide does not include the line about the Sword Cane being finessable. Basically, its a rapier that trades the crit modifier for the ability to be hidden, which is what the weapon was basically intended to be in the real world.
Yep, this is why I resurrected this thread :)
I felt that letting the sword cane be finesse able was the absolute minimum needed to make it a martial weapon, and I don't know if anyone involved with the book had a look at this thread, but it appears that they gave the sword cane the basic upgrade. They also changed the fact that you can't make two handed attacks with this weapon, which is something I felt the rapier needed, and so I'm willing to take the change to the sword cane as well. I absolutely LOVE when House rules become REAL rules. This was the change we made to it for an upcoming game. The only thing STILL missing... is either.. A) making it a light weapon.... or B) adding it for free to the Bard/Rogue lists...
Sword canes are fun Flavor... but Fun Flavor shouldn't have to cost you a Feat to use ;)
Anyone who can use a rapier efficently can use a sword Cane effiecently. I think in our houserule we just said Rapier = Sword Cane for any prerequisites.
Guy Humual wrote: SWORD CANE: WHY BOTHER? One word: Style.
thought since this is the first i'm seeing of this thread I could pipe in on the cane being used as a club arguement. My father is not exactly ancient or hobbled, but he has a bad knee from a work accident so he's bought a few canes for when he has to walk around alot. One of these is a cane special ordered from a martial arts weapon supply company, and it easily matches the stats for a club. approx 5lb's instead of the 3 listed in the core rulebook, and the handle is capped with a metalball that if used as a striking implement would hurt quite a bit and could deffinatly prove lethal.
Seeing this in real life, mostly constructed from a hardwood with a little metal added for both decoration and discreet weaponization, I'd have no problem at all letting someone use a cane asa club. I would still make them pay for it as a club plus maybe some extra to pretty it up depending on what social level they are trying to blend into.
Asta
PSY
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Theconiel wrote: I just read the description of the sword cane on d20pfsrd.com - there is no mention of using the cane as a club. The description of the wizard Ezren (1st level) does not mention a sword cane. In any case, a wizard would need a feat to use a sword cane effectively.
Does he have/use a sword cane at higher level?
There's no mention of a sword cane in any of Ezren's writeups. What he does have is a cane.... period, which is statted as a club, although I think he trades it in for some kind of staff later on. The herolab file of his 15th level incarnation gives him a staff of evocation. His Beginner box incarnation is a standard quarterstaff that's his arcane bond.
LazarX wrote: Theconiel wrote: I just read the description of the sword cane on d20pfsrd.com - there is no mention of using the cane as a club. The description of the wizard Ezren (1st level) does not mention a sword cane. In any case, a wizard would need a feat to use a sword cane effectively.
Does he have/use a sword cane at higher level?
There's no mention of a sword cane in any of Ezren's writeups. What he does have is a cane.... period, which is statted as a club, although I think he trades it in for some kind of staff later on. The herolab file of his 15th level incarnation gives him a staff of evocation. His Beginner box incarnation is a standard quarterstaff that's his arcane bond. This goes back to the original premise of year old thread:
If Ezren can use a cane as a club,
and If a club is as good as a sword cane,
then why would anyone use a sword cane?
Now that the sword cane is a weapon that can use finesse it could be argued that a sword cane is better then a club and now there is a good reason to use a sword cane rather then just a normal cane (which could be used as a club).
Keep in mind everyone that many of the original posts are over a year old :)
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Guy Humual wrote: LazarX wrote: Theconiel wrote: I just read the description of the sword cane on d20pfsrd.com - there is no mention of using the cane as a club. The description of the wizard Ezren (1st level) does not mention a sword cane. In any case, a wizard would need a feat to use a sword cane effectively.
Does he have/use a sword cane at higher level?
There's no mention of a sword cane in any of Ezren's writeups. What he does have is a cane.... period, which is statted as a club, although I think he trades it in for some kind of staff later on. The herolab file of his 15th level incarnation gives him a staff of evocation. His Beginner box incarnation is a standard quarterstaff that's his arcane bond. This goes back to the original premise of year old thread:
If Ezren can use a cane as a club,
and If a club is as good as a sword cane,
then why would anyone use a sword cane?
Now that the sword cane is a weapon that can use finesse it could be argued that a sword cane is better then a club and now there is a good reason to use a sword cane rather then just a normal cane (which could be used as a club).
Keep in mind everyone that many of the original posts are over a year old :) Sword canes for the most part were fashion accessories of high society. Every now and then the fops might square off against each other using them, but they were never considered serious weapons.
So since the obvious tone of the question is coming from someone looking to "optimise", I'll spare you the wasted time and give you a quick answer. You yourself don't bother. It's not an option if you're looking for DPR uber alles. Others might choose to do so for obscure reasons known as roleplay.
I wanted to be a Bard with a sword Cane but I didn't want to take Martial weapon pro., and the DM said I had to take that feat to use that weapon. So I just used a short sword and ask him if I could have a wooden scabard for my sword that I could use like a cane, and guess what I have a sword cane. It's a horribly thought up version of a short sword.
I always thought that a sword cane would just be a modified one-handed sword with a scabbard doubling as a club. Technically, I don't see why I couldn't get a rapier cane, a longsword cane or even a bastard sword cane.
Still, I would have given the sword cane the same stats as a slashing rapier, instead of the stats mentioned, because using it as a cane seems more effective than using it as a sword.
LazarX wrote:
Sword canes for the most part were fashion accessories of high society. Every now and then the fops might square off against each other using them, but they were never considered serious weapons.
So since the obvious tone of the question is coming from someone looking to "optimise", I'll spare you the wasted time and give you a quick answer. You yourself don't bother. It's not an option if you're looking for DPR uber alles. Others might choose to do so for obscure reasons known as roleplay.
<Sigh>
Yes, you have me pegged down, I'm clearly someone who hates to role play.
Having said that I wouldn't mind if my PFS blind oracle's weapon was equal to an actual martial weapon so I didn't feel stupid burning the trait to be proficient in the sword cane. Of course if I wanted to actually role play I'd obviously need to take the worst options. I mean it's not like you can role play and make an effective character now can you?
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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Because the Falchion Cane might have better stats but doesn't fool anybody.
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote: Because the Falchion Cane might have better stats but doesn't fool anybody. Ha!
LazarX wrote: So since the obvious tone of the question is coming from someone looking to "optimise", I'll spare you the wasted time and give you a quick answer. You yourself don't bother. It's not an option if you're looking for DPR uber alles. Others might choose to do so for obscure reasons known as roleplay. Storrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmwind?
Shifty wrote: Also the nice 21st century materials used in that fine PIMP stick linkied above aren't really what they are using in downtown Golarion... :) I agree.
Golarion canes are probably made of a very dense wood (oak?), fire-hardened and polished, then lacquered.
In other words - plenty sturdy to beat someone to death without risking breaking it at all.
tl;dr - A cane is a (probably masterworked) club.
Neo2151 wrote: In other words - plenty sturdy to beat someone to death without risking breaking it at all.
tl;dr - A cane is a (probably masterworked) club.
Definitely!
Most of the Jekyll/Hyde adaptions have him beating people to death with a Cane.
It's how 'gentlemen' do it :)
NOT sure I'd be in favor of a 'sword cane' used as a club... Something about the wood being hollowed out and it seperating in two pieces SHOULD affect it's structual integrity....
Ehhhh...
Rule of Cool. I'd probably be fine with it ^_^
Well you wouldn't be hitting people with the hollowed out part, that would be the handle/hilt of the sword cane, but keep in mind that in baseball hollowed out and corked bats are illegal but presumably are used every now and then, and usually it's only after the break that they're detected. I can't imagine people using them at the risk of being ejected from a ballgame if they broke on a regular basis.
Guy Humual wrote: Well you wouldn't be hitting people with the hollowed out part, that would be the handle/hilt of the sword cane, but keep in mind that in baseball hollowed out and corked bats are illegal but presumably are used every now and then, and usually it's only after the break that they're detected. I can't imagine people using them at the risk of being ejected from a ballgame if they broke on a regular basis. True... but bats are a lot thicker. If the cane is only about an inch or two thick... and still hollowed out, sounds questionable.
Still, I'd probably allow it :)
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Mergy wrote: LazarX wrote: So since the obvious tone of the question is coming from someone looking to "optimise", I'll spare you the wasted time and give you a quick answer. You yourself don't bother. It's not an option if you're looking for DPR uber alles. Others might choose to do so for obscure reasons known as roleplay. Storrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmwind? Ah yes... the thing that's brought up when ever optimisers are challenged.
Sword Canes are terrible weapons, they're built to disguise themselves in a form factor that your longsword or shortsword simply will not fit. Because of that they're also hard weapons to use hence the martial designation. You're getting a weapon that you can disguise in order to bring it in places where normal weapons would not be permitted yet moaning about the fact that it's not as good as a regular sword.
So yeah, I call it optimiser tears, because you're not thinking the full picture other than your DPR loss.
phantom1592 wrote: Guy Humual wrote: Well you wouldn't be hitting people with the hollowed out part, that would be the handle/hilt of the sword cane, but keep in mind that in baseball hollowed out and corked bats are illegal but presumably are used every now and then, and usually it's only after the break that they're detected. I can't imagine people using them at the risk of being ejected from a ballgame if they broke on a regular basis. True... but bats are a lot thicker. If the cane is only about an inch or two thick... and still hollowed out, sounds questionable.
Still, I'd probably allow it :) I should also note that using the sword cane as a club isn't the point of this thread, I think it was suggested just as an option to make the sword cane more viable. Bludgeoning is a far more useful damage type then piercing after all. Honestly a straight up cane is still a better option in most situations then a sword cane, even if you could use the sword cane as a club.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Guy Humual wrote: phantom1592 wrote: Guy Humual wrote: Well you wouldn't be hitting people with the hollowed out part, that would be the handle/hilt of the sword cane, but keep in mind that in baseball hollowed out and corked bats are illegal but presumably are used every now and then, and usually it's only after the break that they're detected. I can't imagine people using them at the risk of being ejected from a ballgame if they broke on a regular basis. True... but bats are a lot thicker. If the cane is only about an inch or two thick... and still hollowed out, sounds questionable.
Still, I'd probably allow it :) I should also note that using the sword cane as a club isn't the point of this thread, I think it was suggested just as an option to make the sword cane more viable. Bludgeoning is a far more useful damage type then piercing after all. Honestly a straight up cane is still a better option in most situations then a sword cane, even if you could use the sword cane as a club. You don't use a sword cane for "most situations" or even general combat. You use it against people. You use it as a weapon of surprise. You use it in a situation where everyone else is disarmed and frequently unarmored.
Look, even going by purely role-playing rationality, the Sword-Cane is not good enough of a weapon.
Rogue A wants a "hidden" weapon and opts for a Sword-Cane. It offers the elegance of a cane, while providing the benefit of a weapon when needed. It costs quite a bit more than a comparable weapon and there is a chance that someone will notice that it is a weapon, and not a cane, when you're in a place where you're not allowed to have a weapon.
Rogue B wants a "hidden" weapon and opts for a thick Cane (ie: a club). It offers the elegance of a cane, while providing the benefit of a weapon when needed. It costs significantly less than Rogue A's weapon, and it can never be discovered that you're carrying a secret hidden blade, because you're not.
Now, from a mechanical PoV, the cane is better than the sword-cane because, even though they have identical damage and crit ranges, bludgeoning damage is more useful than piercing damage, in general. Also, Simple Weapon Prof is easier to come by than Martial Weapon prof.
From a role-playing PoV, the sword-cane is much more expensive and can potentially get you into trouble if you're caught with it in the wrong place. The cane offers neither of these disadvantages.
There was one minor advantage to the old sword cane over a real cane; fighters with better Weapon Training in Blades, Light than in Hammer or Thrown had a slight advantage with the sword cane.
With the UE upgrade allowing use of Weapon Finesse, it now actually makes sense for Weapon Finesse builds to use it, too.
Still, in most cases, carrying a sword cane means nothing more than the character is an idiot that wasted money rather than sensibly bringing a real cane.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Neo2151 wrote: Look, even going by purely role-playing rationality, the Sword-Cane is not good enough of a weapon.
Rogue A wants a "hidden" weapon and opts for a Sword-Cane. It offers the elegance of a cane, while providing the benefit of a weapon when needed. It costs quite a bit more than a comparable weapon and there is a chance that someone will notice that it is a weapon, and not a cane, when you're in a place where you're not allowed to have a weapon.
Rogue B wants a "hidden" weapon and opts for a thick Cane (ie: a club). It offers the elegance of a cane, while providing the benefit of a weapon when needed. It costs significantly less than Rogue A's weapon, and it can never be discovered that you're carrying a secret hidden blade, because you're not.
Now, from a mechanical PoV, the cane is better than the sword-cane because, even though they have identical damage and crit ranges, bludgeoning damage is more useful than piercing damage, in general. Also, Simple Weapon Prof is easier to come by than Martial Weapon prof.
From a role-playing PoV, the sword-cane is much more expensive and can potentially get you into trouble if you're caught with it in the wrong place. The cane offers neither of these disadvantages.
A club however doesn't pass social muster.
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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
That's why you use a cane, and bludgeon people with it like a club.
I would just make it a dagger equivalent...1d4/19-20 x2 piercing...I don't know WHY it's a slashing weapon anyway, it's a small rapier hidden within a cane....
I wouldn't mind taking the damage dump if it increased the threat range.
Also the concealed + quick draw option of the sword cane does make it a good choice for rogues because of the sneak attack possibilities. But again knives are also concealable and they can also be thrown. The sword cane isn't a bad choice for a rogue with quick draw + weapon finesse but for most other classes it's a suboptimal choice.
Xaaon of Korvosa wrote: I would just make it a dagger equivalent...1d4/19-20 x2 piercing...I don't know WHY it's a slashing weapon anyway, it's a small rapier hidden within a cane.... It's not slashing, it's piercing.
LazarX wrote: A club however doesn't pass social muster. If a cane doesn't pass social muster, then something that looks like a cane won't, either.
That a cane counts as a club in Pathfinder was established back in Ezren's writeup as an iconic, where the equipment list he has says, "Cane (as club)". Which was mentioned earlier in the thread.
On the topic of the Stormwind fallacy.
Real people, in real life, doing things that they have a lot of knowledge about, make suboptimal choices all the time:
All people eat, tons of people have terrible nutrition. While it is perfectly possible to talk to people about what is healthy, look up nutrition plans online, stop eating bad food, etc., most people will not be bothered.
I use pens and pencils a lot. I have no clue which brand of pen has the highest quality ink, whose nib lasts longest, who fits most comfortably in my hand, etc. Even if I did know, would I care?
If my character in a game is a fighter, who literally dies far more often if he regularly uses a sword-cane over a falchion, sure it would be "roleplaying at the expense of survivability".
If my character is a bard, who spends most of the fighting times singing and shooting people from afar, having a cane sword over a rapier speaks more to my style, elegance, and dashing-ness than it does to my poor martial prowess.
Roleplaying and optimizing are not mutually exclusive. Optimizers can roleplay their characters very well. Roleplayers can optimize very well. But dismissing options that have a very useful roleplaying application (like having a cane sword) because of a 5% lower critical hit chance? This seems to me to be the sign of someone who favors having an optimal character (not a bad thing) over having roleplaying character.
John Kerpan wrote: On the topic of the Stormwind fallacy.
Real people, in real life, doing things that they have a lot of knowledge about, make suboptimal choices all the time:
All people eat, tons of people have terrible nutrition. While it is perfectly possible to talk to people about what is healthy, look up nutrition plans online, stop eating bad food, etc., most people will not be bothered.
I use pens and pencils a lot. I have no clue which brand of pen has the highest quality ink, whose nib lasts longest, who fits most comfortably in my hand, etc. Even if I did know, would I care?
I'd say that if you were a professional nutritionist,health food activist, or athlete then you might be more careful as to what you put into your body. If you were a professional artist then you might make the optimal choices for pens and pencils. If you were a professional swordsman you probably would be caught dead with a sword cane as it appears in UE or APG.
John Kerpan wrote: If my character in a game is a fighter, who literally dies far more often if he regularly uses a sword-cane over a falchion, sure it would be "roleplaying at the expense of survivability".
If my character is a bard, who spends most of the fighting times singing and shooting people from afar, having a cane sword over a rapier speaks more to my style, elegance, and dashing-ness than it does to my poor martial prowess.
This is a good point. A bard isn't exactly a professional swordsman and usually would be interested in style over substance. Of course I think even a bard would take a rapier over a sword cane, a rapier is after all an elegant weapon, but a sword cane would be a nice back up weapon.
John Kerpan wrote: Roleplaying and optimizing are not mutually exclusive. Optimizers can roleplay their characters very well. Roleplayers can optimize very well. But dismissing options that have a very useful roleplaying application (like having a cane sword) because of a 5% lower critical hit chance? This seems to me to be the sign of someone who favors having an optimal character (not a bad thing) over having roleplaying character. In my case I have a character who uses a sword cane because it fits the character concept. This doesn't stop me from wanting the weapon to be decent however. Not good even, just decent. At the moment the sword cane is the worst martial weapon, but before it was one of the worst weapons period. We are making progress though :D
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I can solve the problem. Ta da! I've hired a gnome to invent a Falchion with a two-part pommel: the grip unscrews to reveal a concealed a rapier.
(More useful than his previous invention: a flindbar whose handles could be removed to reveal an inner nunchaku.)
What I really want, though, to assassinate a nobleman at his fancy party, is a walking stick whose tip and handle can be removed to make a hollow tube -- containing one poisoned blow dart -- permanently enchanted with Abundant Ammunition.
I removed some posts. Don't use the word 'retarded' that way.
Guy Humual wrote:
I'd say that if you were a professional nutritionist,health food activist, or athlete then you might be more careful as to what you put into your body. If you were a professional artist then you might make the optimal choices for pens and pencils. If you were a professional swordsman you probably would be caught dead with a sword cane as it appears in UE or APG.
Ohhhhhh i don't know. There are a LOT of professional athletes playing around with a LOT of that 'unoptimized' alchol and drugs ;)
phantom1592 wrote: Guy Humual wrote:
I'd say that if you were a professional nutritionist,health food activist, or athlete then you might be more careful as to what you put into your body. If you were a professional artist then you might make the optimal choices for pens and pencils. If you were a professional swordsman you probably would be caught dead with a sword cane as it appears in UE or APG.
Ohhhhhh i don't know. There are a LOT of professional athletes playing around with a LOT of that 'unoptimized' alchol and drugs ;) I did say "might"
Someone might have mentioned this, but why does it sound like a HUGE majority of people expect you to be using a sword cane all the time? It's only for special occasions, and hopefully, you shouldn't have to resort to it.
Heck, I had to hand over my weapons to the guards. What did I do? A fight broke out, and I punched someone. (In my defense, however, I was playing a magus. I may be able to cast spells through my weapon, but I still can cast shocking grasp and give you a heck of a jolt.) Alternatively, look for improvised weapons if you got none (use the dang bread knife, that still is going to hurt someone.)
Sword Cane Pistol makes a sweet Blackblade.
see wrote: LazarX wrote: A club however doesn't pass social muster. If a cane doesn't pass social muster, then something that looks like a cane won't, either.
That a cane counts as a club in Pathfinder was established back in Ezren's writeup as an iconic, where the equipment list he has says, "Cane (as club)". Which was mentioned earlier in the thread. All the writeup proves is that the cane Ezren uses can be used as a club (so unless you kill Ezren and steal his club, you still can't use a cane as a club) and that who ever created Ezren was more concerned with flavour than with the consequences of his design would have on the way some people like to play the game.
As you pointed out yourself, if you can use every cane as a club, there is no point for the sword cane.
So just accept that it's a NPC feature only there for that specific NPC.
Just like there is that NPC that uses spring attack and vital strike (or what was the combination that was used?)
As have been pointed out several times, this does not change the rules. Spring attack still is it's out full round action and can't be combined with a standard action (the vital strike chain of feats).
Both are either things you use or don't. They are not the core rules, so you are free to ignore if so desired.
If you want to use every cane as a club, do as you see fit. I just don't think you should force your choice on everyone else. And I don't think it has a place in this topic as it's a house rule that you try to represent as a core rule.
btw, does it anywhere in Ezren's description says what the perception check is to see that the cane is a weapon?
If not, I think by raw, one should consider Ezren's cane a weapon which is automatically viewed as such. Therefore, having a club-cane doesn't not work if you try to hire it as a weapon.
P.S.I just hope I haven't missed a faq or something.
Marthian wrote: Someone might have mentioned this, but why does it sound like a HUGE majority of people expect you to be using a sword cane all the time? It's only for special occasions, and hopefully, you shouldn't have to resort to it.
This guy used a sword cane all the time. Too bad you can't really make a character based on him with the current weapon, Zatoichi usually relied on surprise but he often went toe to toe with samurai wielding katanas. I got the feeling that his blade wasn't as good as a katana but Zatoichi made up the gap with skill. That's not really possible with the sword cane in pathfinder as it really is an inferior weapon. Even with feats like quick draw and weapon finesse you're always going to be lagging behind the damage output of someone using a proper weapon.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
You realize that you're talking about a movie character and the only examples of sword cane fighting with any note are stage fights?
Of course. I like magic, deities, and monsters in my RPGs, I'm not big into reality simulators. I want my games to be based on fantasy and fiction not history. Still, even if this was a historical simulator, I have heard one poster in this thread claim that a sword cane blade and a rapier blade as being exactly the same. If that is the case this version of the sword cane doesn't fit with reality or fantasy.
arioreo wrote: btw, does it anywhere in Ezren's description says what the perception check is to see that the cane is a weapon?
If not, I think by raw, one should consider Ezren's cane a weapon which is automatically viewed as such. Therefore, having a club-cane doesn't not work if you try to hire it as a weapon.
I don't know about the rest of the post, I'm not saying your wrong but I'd rather not get into a rules debate on another subject, but this is a really good point. Perhaps a club as a cane looks like a club? It would be beneficial to the sword cane if this were the case. Ezren's cane is a hefty piece of wood after all.
I do think that most people assume canes can be used as weapons anyways though, they're just not seen as deadly weapons like swords or even knives. Perhaps we could get stats for the light cane / heavy cane (both of which would be simple weapons) or something like that? A sword cane would resemble a light cane in this scenario. and a heavy cane would equal a cane. Just an idea.
One of my favorite chars that I built used a sword cane...he was a half-elf Bladebound Magus and Warpriest...so the damage was boosted due to sacred weapon...and the fact that it doubles as a cane means that he is always "wielding" his black blade, so therefore would always have access to the alertness bonus from the black blade aspect
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Insanely quick to deploy, effective, deadly, and hardy; for any situation. Cane Swords come in various forms, some with daggers and some with knives, but all well concealable. So take a leisure stroll out in the park, alone at night, with the support of a cane and the protection of a deadly sword.
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It would probably be a bit more appealing if it was Piercing and/or Slashing.
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