The adopted trait


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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the adopted trait states that you, the pc, were adopted and raised in another culture than your birth race, and as such you can pick a trait from that selected races traits.
I am curious to know if any GM's have encountered a PC trying to munchkin the trait, or have any PC's out there been able to use the adopted trait for power gaming?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

DEWN MOU'TAIN wrote:

the adopted trait states that you, the pc, were adopted and raised in another culture than your birth race, and as such you can pick a trait from that selected races traits.

I am curious to know if any GM's have encountered a PC trying to munchkin the trait, or have any PC's out there been able to use the adopted trait for power gaming?

Err... What exactly are you trying to ask/get at?

Shadow Lodge

I don't think so... I can't think of anything on the racial lists that synergizes amazingly with a racial power from another race. Furthermore, since they're all trait bonuses, you can't end up with, say, halfling initiative hounds who take Reactionary and Adopted (Warrior of Old).

I have a merfolk PC who took Adopted (Freedom Fighter), but it definitely hasn't resulted in huge advantages.


I think the OP is confusing racial traits and race traits.

Racial traits are stuff like the extra feat for humans, the 2 favored classes for half-elves, or darkvision for dwarves. Those you can't take.

Race traits are traits (aka those half-feats), from the "Race" list. Most of them are limited to a specific race.

With the adopted trait you can take them, or at least those of one other race.

It's not really overpowered, just adds some flavor to your character thats all.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

There are only potentially two problematic things I've seen:

1) Some misunderstand "race trait" (meaning another trait like "adopted," but listed under "race") for "racial ability" (sometimes also referred to as a "racial trait"), i.e., something like the elf's keen senses or weapon familiarity. So it's important to be sure players understand it means another trait, not a racial ability. (((And ninjaed by Allia)))

2) Some campaign setting traits (not the core RPG traits in the APG) might allow something that doesn't involve an adopted ability but a clearly inherited one--IIRC there's a half orc trait in some module or race guidebook that gives you a bite attack (similar to a feat in the APG, but it's a trait). RAW, any other member of a race could take that trait with Adopted even though it makes no sense in most cases. But I think that's a very unusual case.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
DeathQuaker wrote:
2) Some campaign setting traits (not the core RPG traits in the APG) might allow something that doesn't involve an adopted ability but a clearly inherited one--IIRC there's a half orc trait in some module or race guidebook that gives you a bite attack (similar to a feat in the APG, but it's a trait). RAW, any other member of a race could take that trait with Adopted even though it makes no sense in most cases. But I think that's a very unusual case.

We kind orcs adopt you ugly halfling. But you not fit with other orcs. Kind parents pay for wizard to graft in teeth, make you strong and handsome!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Jiggy wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
2) Some campaign setting traits (not the core RPG traits in the APG) might allow something that doesn't involve an adopted ability but a clearly inherited one--IIRC there's a half orc trait in some module or race guidebook that gives you a bite attack (similar to a feat in the APG, but it's a trait). RAW, any other member of a race could take that trait with Adopted even though it makes no sense in most cases. But I think that's a very unusual case.
We kind orcs adopt you ugly halfling. But you not fit with other orcs. Kind parents pay for wizard to graft in teeth, make you strong and handsome!

Emphasis added on my original quote.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

DeathQuaker wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
2) Some campaign setting traits (not the core RPG traits in the APG) might allow something that doesn't involve an adopted ability but a clearly inherited one--IIRC there's a half orc trait in some module or race guidebook that gives you a bite attack (similar to a feat in the APG, but it's a trait). RAW, any other member of a race could take that trait with Adopted even though it makes no sense in most cases. But I think that's a very unusual case.
We kind orcs adopt you ugly halfling. But you not fit with other orcs. Kind parents pay for wizard to graft in teeth, make you strong and handsome!
Emphasis added on my original quote.

Hence my offering of an example! And people think getting braces is bad! ;)

Grand Lodge

How about this for an example. You take a Drow adopted by humans. In this case, a paladin took a drow girl back to his church -- where the girl was raised within the faith of Iomedae. Using the Adopted trait, this allows the selection of a human race trait.

In that list, I see 'Dual Talent' which allows a +2 racial bonus to two abilities. the description explains that this replaces the human's normal +2 to one ability, the bonus feat and the skilled trait.

On a drow, what would a Dual Talent replace?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

@Delos:
That is not a Race Trait, from the list of Traits. It doesn't work with Adopted. It's a racial trait, which, as has been pointed out in this thread, is *not* the same thing.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Lets clarify...

Races get some abilities that are, unfortunately, called "Traits."

There are also these little backstory things that one can get that are like "half feats" called "Traits."

Adopted only lets you get the Half feats that are specific to the race you choose with Adopted. Not the Abilities inherent to an race.

Got it?

I also believe that since the Ultimate Campaign came out, one can get any of the race traits despite being categorized as social in the splat "Companion" books, as they are not divided as such in UC. Herolab has not corrected this as of yet.


Delos-Solon wrote:

How about this for an example. You take a Drow adopted by humans. In this case, a paladin took a drow girl back to his church -- where the girl was raised within the faith of Iomedae. Using the Adopted trait, this allows the selection of a human race trait.

In that list, I see 'Dual Talent' which allows a +2 racial bonus to two abilities. the description explains that this replaces the human's normal +2 to one ability, the bonus feat and the skilled trait.

On a drow, what would a Dual Talent replace?

There are two bothersomely similar terms here which you are mixing up.

There are things called racial traits, and alternate racial traits. These are in-built features of a given race, which can't be gained or lost through any way other than chosing an alternate to replace one of the regulars when first creating your character (or getting reincarnated I suppose).

Then there's just plain traits, the little flavorful things you can take two of when first making a character. These are sorted into various subcategories, generally indicating they are only available to certain sorts of characters. So you have Campaign Traits, only for players of a particular adventure path, Religion Traits, for worshipers of certain deities, Regional Traits, for people who grew up in certain areas, and Race Traits, which are only available to certain races... unless you take the Adopted trait.

Dual Talent is an alternate racial trait for humans. It replaces one of the in-built racial features (+2 to whatever stat). Not something you can get from being adopted.

Race Traits would be things like Scholar of Ruins and World Traveler (found in Ultimate Campaign)... in the Traits section, not the Race section.

It's an annoying wording issue, but not as bad as how "level" might refer to your character level, class level, caster level, the level of a spell you're casting, or what floor of some dungeon you're standing on, depending on context.

Grand Lodge

Okay, so what list would be available to the Human adopted drow?


To put it another way, you get 2 traits and can pick one trait from any given category (Social, Race, Magical, etc). Normally, you can spend one trait on your Race trait selection and pick from only your own race. Or, you can spend it on a Social trait (Adopted) which lets you pick a race trait from any other race at the cost of your Social trait (so you can't take any other Social trait along with Adopted).

Grand Lodge

Now of the two traits you select, they have to be from different categories, right?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ultimate Campaign wrote:


Human Race Traits
Only humans can select these traits.
Scholar of Ruins: From the moment you could walk and
talk, the ruins of ancient civilizations have fascinated you.
Because of this, you have special insight into geography
as well as expertise in exploring lost places. You gain a
+1 trait bonus on Knowledge (geography) and Knowledge
(dungeoneering) checks. One of these skills (your choice)
is always a class skill for you.
World Traveler: Your family has taken the love of travel
to an extreme, roaming the world extensively. You’ve seen
dozens of cultures and have learned to appreciate the
diversity of what the world has to offer. Select one of the
following skills: Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), or Sense
Motive. You gain a +1 trait bonus on checks with that skill,
and it is always a class skill for you.

These are just two that are in the UC. There are others in the various Companion books.


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They really should have called traits 'backgrounds'.


DEWN MOU'TAIN wrote:

the adopted trait states that you, the pc, were adopted and raised in another culture than your birth race, and as such you can pick a trait from that selected races traits.

I am curious to know if any GM's have encountered a PC trying to munchkin the trait, or have any PC's out there been able to use the adopted trait for power gaming?

As a human take adopted for half-orcs to grab almost human.

As a human, when you disguise yourself as a human, you get a +4 bonus on the check. Oh and disguise is a class skill for you.


That's to disguise yourself as a generic human, mind you, not a specific person. So the only practical benefit you're getting is the class skill. It is the only trait that seems to offer that particular benefit that I could find, but that still seems a pretty steep price to pay; both your Social and Race trait slot for just treating Disguise as a class skill?


Jiggy wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
2) Some campaign setting traits (not the core RPG traits in the APG) might allow something that doesn't involve an adopted ability but a clearly inherited one--IIRC there's a half orc trait in some module or race guidebook that gives you a bite attack (similar to a feat in the APG, but it's a trait). RAW, any other member of a race could take that trait with Adopted even though it makes no sense in most cases. But I think that's a very unusual case.
We kind orcs adopt you ugly halfling. But you not fit with other orcs. Kind parents pay for wizard to graft in teeth, make you strong and handsome!
Emphasis added on my original quote.
Hence my offering of an example! And people think getting braces is bad! ;)

Halfing? If you spent any time on the advice threads, then you would know that half-orcs only adopt catfolk orphans with anger issues (seriously, why was it always barbarians?... well, other than that little misunderstanding about gaining claw attacks...still, why them? The claw pounce is kind of redundant). I almost think that catfolk have a tradition of sending their children to half-orc boarding schools in order to learn the art of growing dagger-like fangs from their mouths.

Oh, for that little drow, I think that the trifler trait is also humans only. I do always love getting some free prestidigitation, and for 3 hours a day at that. That spell is like duct tape or WD-40: good in just about any situation for solving countless problems that you can't be bothered to find the proper tools for.


I once had a dwarven paladin (stonelord) who had, for some time, been raised by his tiefling uncle. This guy taught him how to do insane things like jump into an attack aimed at someone else. Through that he got the suicidal trait.
After some time he noticed that his uncle isn't very good influency, being a tiefling and of questionable alignment, and he joined the paladin order instead of staying "at home" with that moral threat.

Munchkin? I don't think so. Powergaming? probably not really. One of the only ways to do some tanking (except for the hated antagonize).


My Human Fighter was born to a human Father and Half elven mother. At the age of 9 he had to accept that his father had fallen in a great battle. His grieving mother returned to her forest homeland among the elves where the boy grew up with his elven grandparents. For the next 10 years he learned the elven arts of war. At last he set out with his Grandfather's elven Curveblade to bring honor to his father's name.

Adopted allowed him to learn use of elven weapons and supported his back story with beneficial game mechanics.

I think it is most tastefully used to support backstory in this way.


Frederic wrote:
Adopted allowed him to learn use of elven weapons and supported his back story with beneficial game mechanics.

This sounds like using the wrong type of trait. I'm not aware of any elf race traits that grant weapon proficiency.


Zahmahkibo wrote:
Frederic wrote:
Adopted allowed him to learn use of elven weapons and supported his back story with beneficial game mechanics.
This sounds like using the wrong type of trait. I'm not aware of any elf race traits that grant weapon proficiency.

There is an alternate human racial trait that allows them to get another race's weapon familiarities and languages in return for the bonus feat. Either that, or he just used his bonus feat to get the exotic weapon proficiency. Or any of his other two feats as a 1st level fighter.

Yeah, it was probably a poor choice to mention the adopted racial trait and the adopted trait together in the same post. We are all a bit confused already.


You dawg, I heard you like traits...


Well then. Let this thread stand as the monument to guy who said, "Eh, we're probably not using that word for anything else."


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Hence, why I always say, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Take steps to coherently codify your system to avoid conflation of terms like this from happening in the first place, and you don't have to go back and answer umpteen billion FAQs about how things work. And, just as important, make sure everyone adding to the system understand the technical ins and outs and stick to the system terms and use them properly.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Used as intended, I just don't really like the Adopted trait. To be clear, by "used as intended" I mean taking the Adopted trait so you can pick a trait from the Race traits list.

The reason I don't like Adopted is because the moment you pick it, it becomes superfluous. A character with the Adopted is taking it so they can choose a trait from another race's list. Why not just say any player can verbally claim their character was adopted by another race and let them pick any one race trait they want? That's basically what it amounts to. I don't think it's overpowered or cheesy, and I don't forbid players from taking it. I just don't think it's necessary. If the Adopted trait itself used up one of the player's two traits, meaning they only had one left for their Race trait, I could see a purpose for it, but I think too many players would complain if that was the case. Maybe Adopted could count as one trait but also give a +1 trait bonus on diplomacy or knowledge checks related to the chosen race and give the benefit of allowing the player to choose a race trait?


I like your ideas Velcro, and it does at times seem a bit silly. However, as mentioned up-thread, choosing Adopted *does* prevent you from picking another Social trait. Tends to be a very minor limitation though.

In slight defense to the whole thing, when Adopted was written with the initial release of the Traits concept, there weren't any Race Traits written, to notice the similar term or to otherwise mentally process the ramifications.


The rule that you can only take one trait from a given list, essentially; taking Adopted means you can't take another Social trait alongside it, and you can't take a racial trait for your own race.

Me, I think most racial traits shouldn't be, unless they have a direct, mechanical connection to the race.


Velcro Zipper wrote:

Used as intended, I just don't really like the Adopted trait. To be clear, by "used as intended" I mean taking the Adopted trait so you can pick a trait from the Race traits list.

The reason I don't like Adopted is because the moment you pick it, it becomes superfluous. A character with the Adopted is taking it so they can choose a trait from another race's list. Why not just say any player can verbally claim their character was adopted by another race and let them pick any one race trait they want? That's basically what it amounts to. I don't think it's overpowered or cheesy, and I don't forbid players from taking it. I just don't think it's necessary. If the Adopted trait itself used up one of the player's two traits, meaning they only had one left for their Race trait, I could see a purpose for it, but I think too many players would complain if that was the case. Maybe Adopted could count as one trait but also give a +1 trait bonus on diplomacy or knowledge checks related to the chosen race and give the benefit of allowing the player to choose a race trait?

Adopted is a Social trait. That means that if you use it to get an off-race trait, you can't take any other Social trait. That's the balancing factor. The traits aren't just an all-encompassing description of your background; they're just what were significant enough to generate a mechanical advantage. Anyone can be adopted by another race, but that doesn't necessarily mean you picked up anything significant, just as anyone could have bullied growing up, but only those who take the Bullied trait gain a mechanical advantage from it. So, essentially, Adopted means you're spending both your potential Social slot as well as your potential Race slot to get a single race Trait.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I get that Adopted is a social trait so it kind of costs something but, at this point, there are so many traits, it only takes a little delving to find one from another column that either copies or comes close to many of the Social traits so you can still get what you want in most cases.

Like I said, it's not game-stoppingly bad for me though it is kind of funny how a gnome adopted by white-scaled kobolds can breathe ice or how being adopted by goblins can leave you with a balloon head. Not saying it can't happen (maybe the dwarf was adopted by goblins because they thought he was one of them.) It's just funny when the trait describes the benefit is due to some physical trait the player's race wouldn't have.


At that point, you reflavor it.

Liberty's Edge

Stockvillain wrote:

@Delos:

That is not a Race Trait, from the list of Traits. It doesn't work with Adopted. It's a racial trait, which, as has been pointed out in this thread, is *not* the same thing.

My question regarding this is half elf and half orc, could they take this racial trait even tho they dont have the free human feat to give up?


Tiemmothi wrote:
Stockvillain wrote:

@Delos:

That is not a Race Trait, from the list of Traits. It doesn't work with Adopted. It's a racial trait, which, as has been pointed out in this thread, is *not* the same thing.
My question regarding this is half elf and half orc, could they take this racial trait even tho they dont have the free human feat to give up?

You're conflating terminology. It's understandable given the terrible mess they made of the naming, but let me try to break it down for you.

Traits (capital T): This is the character traits system introduced in APG. These are divided into several categories such as Social, Combat, Magic, Faith, Race, etc. Except for the Race category, other traits are open to any race. Each one counts as, roughly, half a feat in terms of power. You are typically given two gratis when you make your character and are used to provide plot hooks for the GM with slight mechanical benefit to the character.

Racial traits (lower case T): These are qualities built into each race. Humans get their bonus feat, Elves get immunity to sleep, Dwarves get Darkvision, etc. These are built into the specific race entry and don't cross over into other races. Not even the hybrid races (half-orc, half-elf) get access to their parent race's Racial traits; unless they have an available alternate racial trait that mimics a parent racial trait.

Adopted (Social Trait): This is part of the Traits (capital T) system, under the Social heading. It allows you to select a race and then, as part of this Trait, select one of that race's Race Traits. This is referring to the Race category of the Traits system, not Racial traits which are built-in parts of a Race's entry.

Adopted Parentage (alternate Human racial trait): This is an alternate racial trait for Humans that replaces their Bonus Feat racial trait. It can only be taken by Humans; neither Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Scion of Humanity Aasimar, nor any other creature that mechanically counts as Human can select this.

So remember: Race Traits refers to the Race category of the Traits system while Racial Traits refers to the built-in core elements of each discrete Race. Adopted is a specific Social trait that allows you to select a Race Trait for other than your own race. Adopted Parentage is a Human-specific alternate Racial trait that gives you the Language and Racial Weapon Proficiency of some non-Human race.


My favorite combo

Adopted(Almost Human(+4 to disguise as human))

You can grab this as a human and gain bonuses to disguising as a human.


They really, really should have called traits 'Backgrounds'.


TL;DR
Munchkin is the M-word.

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