What should I play? (Assume I find all classes fun)


Advice

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi all,

The good news:

My friend is planning on running a campaign (Second Darkness) in the next while and I'm one of the players.

Also lucky for me, I am one of those easy going people and I would have fun playing any of the classes listed in the APG/UM/UC/Core.

So far the other players are planning on being:

Tibbit Bard (updated to 3.p, for now just consider it a halfling) (will center on being a face and helping heal)

Elf Rogue/Assassin

Human Fighter (Melee)

And either
Halfling Witch
or
Halfling Sorcerer (assume he plays either as a caster)

The concern:

I'm usually the DM for games, so I'm rusty on having a character that isn't going to step on any toes and will really help optimize the group.

Basically I'm really bad at making characters that do things the other players do better.

I understand that without any stats it's hard to discern what I should be, however I wanted to take some time to figure out my options and discuss any ideas.

For now, let's assume that we have a 20 point build (the DM will probably just do 4d6, drop the lowest)

My theory:

I was thinking druid would fit into the group, going more towards a casting option. I read through the Treantmonk's guide, and the follow up messageboard concerning the archetypes.

Thematically I was thinking about using the Cave Domain. I considered the cave druid archetype, however based on what I've read in the messageboards and from talking with the DM concerning the campaign, I felt losing some of the wild shape strength was a little too much and the beneficial aspects wouldn't come into play.

I haven't really read anything concerning the Cave domain being good or bad (save for the missing spell), so I'm up in the air on that.

The question to the boards

So what would others play to help optimize the group and not end up being "that guy" again?

Again: I'm happy to be the player in a game for once, so any classes out of the UM/UC/Core/APG are viable answers (well, not Paladins since the party will have three evil players, but other than them)


the group doesn't seem mighty powerful, which is good. So no pressure to be optimized.
A druid is a very fine choice. The party lacks "wisdom", but they have pretty much everything they need. You can pretty much take every class, and still you seem indifferent to classes.

So I would suggest druid if you don't mind the "complexity" of spells and summons. Else the monk might be a good thing to help the fighter and rogue by outmaneuvring ennemies and keeping them away from the witch who could evil eye something besides saves then.

I speak about he druid being complex because a healer is easy, a fighter doesn't take long, just as a rogue, and a hex also happens fast. You might risk taking longer for your turn than the others.
Also if you get your hands on the new UC, then you'll have even more monk options to play with, in case you like experimenting a bit.


How about a cleric! Could do a battle cleric with the demon subdomain or some kind of necromantic cleric or a combo of both.

Dark Archive

Do you know what the witch/sorcerer likes to specialize in? If he's planning on going the blasty route, a battlefield controlling wizard would be excellent. If he's already got that, then I'd suggest bringing some divine magic in, either with the druid you were thinking about, or a cleric.

A battle cleric of Gorum could use the Rage and Tactics subdomains, and melee alongside the fighter as a pseudo-barbarian that can also buff up before combat, and patch everyone up after. Unless the bard or rogue are planning on getting heavy into melee, a second front-line fighter would benefit the group a lot. Not to mention the favoured weapon of Gorum is the greatsword. Grab a breastplate, a big sword, and as long as you buff him, the melee fighter shouldn't resent you helping him out.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

First of all, thank you all for replying.

@Richard Leonhart: I think Monk is a very interesting choice. I haven't received my copy of the UC in the mail just yet, but when I do I'll certainly take a look at the alternate monks in there. Do you know if there is one that will be different than the Assassin PC?

@Choant: Demon Subdomain is a little more evil than I'm confortable with, though a devil subdomain could be up our ally. I'll run it by my DM. If he likes the "combo or demon" subdomains, maybe a cleric of Orcus?

@Mergy: Unfortunately I do not know what the witch/sorcerer like to specialize in. I've never played a game with him. I'll have to ask.

If I had to guess, I'd say he'll probably go the debuffing route, so a battefield controlling wizard is a viable option if he does. Fun RP with the whole sorcerer/witch vs. wizard angle too.

As for the battle cleric of Gorum, I'd love to, and you're completely correct, they are awesome. The only thing stopping me is one of my players in Curse of the Crimson Throne played one so well, and we all still have that game fresh in our minds.

Cool, this makes me feel a lot better about my options. Feel free to keep them coming!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Commoner. :)

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Commoner. :)

Sweet! Bonus Feat from the Dead Flaw! Does that still work in 3.p

:)

Dark Archive

Well we can't be a copy-cat then!

How about a ranger? A switch-hitter is still very viable, and the ability to melee will really help your party. Your animal companion will be able to act as a flanking buddy for you or the warrior, and you'll be putting out consistent, high damage at range or in melee. You'll also have a few divine spells to help the party: between you, the bard and maybe the witch, you'll have enough cure spells to keep the party going for several encounters a day.

I'm going to keep suggesting melee-ready classes, because looking at the group, it would be the most beneficial.

EDIT:

Okay, one more idea. A Jekyll/Hyde Alchemist going into Master Chymist. The RP fun of two completely different personalities (do different voices for bonus points). Master Chymist has full BAB, and Alchemist has 3/4, so you will end up a very decent front-liner, especially when mutagened out. Throw bombs as your ranged option, and bring in some extra arcane buffs with infusion.

Not *quite* as much support as a cleric would bring, but you'll definitely be pulling your weight.

I'd suggest this one more if your other caster is going sorcerer, otherwise you might tread on the toes of a potion-brewing witch.


I second the Ranger. My personal preferences aside: the current build-up of the party could use someone with wilderness skills and the druid does neither have fav.enemy nor fav.terrain.

Could come handy, considering the adventure path, though i might be mistaken, not having played or read it.

And the new Ranger spells are a blast!

I´d recommend a weapon&shield or two-hand-weapon combat-style and be sure to take a look at the archetypes.

Have Fun!


Mergy wrote:

Well we can't be a copy-cat then!

How about a ranger? A switch-hitter is still very viable, and the ability to melee will really help your party. Your animal companion will be able to act as a flanking buddy for you or the warrior, and you'll be putting out consistent, high damage at range or in melee. You'll also have a few divine spells to help the party: between you, the bard and maybe the witch, you'll have enough cure spells to keep the party going for several encounters a day.

I'm going to keep suggesting melee-ready classes, because looking at the group, it would be the most beneficial.

All this recent talk of Ranger switch-hitters is making me want to play one. Isn't there also a new feat in UC that gives an attack and/or damage bonus to melee if you used a ranged attack the round prior to that? It sounds to good to be true.

Anyway, I second this option since it sounds really useful no matter what happens.

EDIT: I third this option, apparently. =)

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Ranger is sounding more and more fun. I had read one or two things about the "switch hitter" ranger, however hadn't gone looking for it too much (nor know too much about it). I'd probably talk with the Fighter player to see what he'd be using and go for something different (so if he goes two weapon fighting, I go sword & board). Could be a lot of fun, and as all three of you said, it'd go well in the group.

Also I've been meaning to play a ranger since I picked up the 3.P PH a long time ago and decided to buy it based solely on the changes to Ranger.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Mergy wrote:


EDIT:

Okay, one more idea. A Jekyll/Hyde Alchemist going into Master Chymist. The RP fun of two completely different personalities (do different voices for bonus points). Master Chymist has full BAB, and Alchemist has 3/4, so you will end up a very decent front-liner, especially when mutagened out. Throw bombs as your ranged option, and bring in some extra arcane buffs with infusion.

I'd suggest this one more if your other caster is going sorcerer, otherwise you might tread on the toes of a potion-brewing witch.

So funny coincidence, the player who played the vigilante ranger switched to one of these in Curse of the Crimson Throne, and then switched back to the ranged ranger when he lost his character sheet!

Still has some potential though.

Dark Archive

Modera wrote:

Ranger is sounding more and more fun. I had read one or two things about the "switch hitter" ranger, however hadn't gone looking for it too much (nor know too much about it). I'd probably talk with the Fighter player to see what he'd be using and go for something different (so if he goes two weapon fighting, I go sword & board). Could be a lot of fun, and as all three of you said, it'd go well in the group.

Also I've been meaning to play a ranger since I picked up the 3.P PH a long time ago and decided to buy it based solely on the changes to Ranger.

The biggest advantage of the switch hitter, in my opinion, is the ability the ranger has of qualifying for feats without the stat prerequisites. This means that if you're rolling 4d6, and you only have a few high rolls, put them into STR and CON, because you can still fire a bow with rapidshot, manyshot, etc. using your full BAB, and then dash into melee when it's time to protect the squishies. If you're more into sword and board, a ranger can also pull that off without a high dex, as long as you go into the two-weapon fighting combat style as opposed to the actual sword and board style.

Do read up on the Master Chymist though, as it's my personal favourite choice, more so because you can have two wildly different alignments packed into one character.


Something to help healing and melee seems useful... how about a Cleric of Gorum? Rain destruction on your enemies, hear the lamentations of their mates, grudgingly heal your allies.

Of course, druid or ranger are also quite valid and can add to the combat/heal/wisdom element of the group.

Shadow Lodge

If you're looking for more healing and melee but don't want to copy the Gorum battle cleric style...

Go for a Barbarian/Life Oracle/Rage Prophet.

Shadow Lodge

Since you usually GM, have you considered this question:

If you were going to make a retainer for this party, what do you think they'd need?

That usually works for me. It's easy to see what 'fits' from the non-player point of view, and if you can run games than you likely can run ANY character and have fun with it.

For specific recommendations, it looks like an archer of some sort would be good. Probably either a Ranger or a well-feat-ed Fighter.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
mcbobbo wrote:

Since you usually GM, have you considered this question:

If you were going to make a retainer for this party, what do you think they'd need?

That usually works for me. It's easy to see what 'fits' from the non-player point of view, and if you can run games than you likely can run ANY character and have fun with it.

For specific recommendations, it looks like an archer of some sort would be good. Probably either a Ranger or a well-feat-ed Fighter.

To answer your question: I've been SOO lucky that I haven't had to give the group a retainer for a long, long time. Though it is something I'll consider.

I am leaning towards the Ranger the more I think about it, though if anything changes, the other options mentioned above sound really fun too (Master Chymyst, Life Oracle/Barb, etc)


Modera wrote:
mcbobbo wrote:

Since you usually GM, have you considered this question:

If you were going to make a retainer for this party, what do you think they'd need?

That usually works for me. It's easy to see what 'fits' from the non-player point of view, and if you can run games than you likely can run ANY character and have fun with it.

For specific recommendations, it looks like an archer of some sort would be good. Probably either a Ranger or a well-feat-ed Fighter.

To answer your question: I've been SOO lucky that I haven't had to give the group a retainer for a long, long time. Though it is something I'll consider.

I am leaning towards the Ranger the more I think about it, though if anything changes, the other options mentioned above sound really fun too (Master Chymyst, Life Oracle/Barb, etc)

Try a metal oracle , they seem like a lot of melee fun ,plus you can heal

Dark Archive

qutoes wrote:


Try a metal oracle , they seem like a lot of melee fun ,plus you can heal

A ranged alternative would be an Elf Oracle of Wood (elf for proficiency with Longbow), who can get full BAB while using wooden weapons. Longspear and Longbow make an excellent combination, especially with spontaneous divine magic on top of that. Think druid, but less wildshapy, more shooty.

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