Ultimate Combat: Wounds and Vigor


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I had a question regarding the Wounds and Vigor optional rules. How exactly do the Bleed rules factor in? Also, how would you handle barbarian rage?


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I am curious how the Wounds and Vigor system from Ultimate Combat should work with Creatures that have Damage Reduction.

For example:

A character wielding a rapier manages to critically hit a creature with damage reduction.

Does the Rapier's Critical Multiplier inflict 2 points of Wound Damage only if the damage rolled is enough to over come the Damage Reduction of the creature struck?

Does the Rapier inflict 2 points of wound damage regardless if the Damage Reduction is over come or not?

How does Negative Energy Damage like a Cause Light Wounds spell work when cast against a target that has Damage Reduction and Wound Points have been targeted instead of Vigor Points??

Also....

Undead are normally destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points, and so I am curious if Undead should also be destroyed upon reaching their Wound Threshold, or if they need to be reduced to 0 Wound Points.

Dark Archive

JMecha wrote:

I am curious how the Wounds and Vigor system from Ultimate Combat should work with Creatures that have Damage Reduction.

For example:

A character wielding a rapier manages to critically hit a creature with damage reduction.

Does the Rapier's Critical Multiplier inflict 2 points of Wound Damage only if the damage rolled is enough to over come the Damage Reduction of the creature struck?

Does the Rapier inflict 2 points of wound damage regardless if the Damage Reduction is over come or not?

How does Negative Energy Damage like a Cause Light Wounds spell work when cast against a target that has Damage Reduction and Wound Points have been targeted instead of Vigor Points??

Also....

Undead are normally destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points, and so I am curious if Undead should also be destroyed upon reaching their Wound Threshold, or if they need to be reduced to 0 Wound Points.

Keeping simplicity in mind, this is how I'm working out all of this... (this is all theory. There has been no practical testing as of yet)

-Damage Reduction normally works against Vigor points, THEN Wound points. If someone scores a crit against a creature with DR, the damage would come off of their Vigor points first (even though the rules normally state that you take wound damage). Once the creature's VPs are depleted, future Crits go to WPs. 5 DR = 1 Wound Reduction. 10 DR would = 2 wound reduction, and so on. I think that it's important to have the DR still be formidable.

-Negative energy...DR normally doesn't take damage off of neg energy attacks (like channel and the like). Casting Cause Light Wounds on a foe, the character casting it would have the choice to take off WPs or VPs according to the rules within that section in Ultimate Combat.

-For undead, I'm just adding VP and WP into one big pool. Then once it reaches 0, they're "dead". Keepin' that simple.

-I've been thinking about the Bleed dilemma. Just the word "bleed" refers to a character getting "wounded". So I want bleed to take damage off of WPs. So I'm debating weather or not to keep the rules as is but just add bleed damage to WP OR if the victim of a bleed attack has VPs left and they take bleed damage, have the victim simply take 1 bleed. If that same victim has no more VP and the monster's ability reads "subject takes 2d6 bleed", THEN roll 2d6 and take that off of WPs.

Thoughts?


William Bryan wrote:


-Damage Reduction normally works against Vigor points, THEN Wound points. If someone scores a crit against a creature with DR, the damage would come off of their Vigor points first (even though the rules normally state that you take wound damage). Once the creature's VPs are depleted, future Crits go to WPs. 5 DR = 1 Wound Reduction. 10 DR would = 2 wound reduction, and so on. I think that it's important to have the DR still be formidable.

This is great and simple, works within the established system.

William Bryan wrote:


-Negative energy...DR normally doesn't take damage off of neg energy attacks (like channel and the like). Casting Cause Light Wounds on a foe, the character casting it would have the choice to take off WPs or VPs according to the rules within that section in Ultimate Combat.

This is how I read it as well.

William Bryan wrote:


-For undead, I'm just adding VP and WP into one big pool. Then once it reaches 0, they're "dead". Keepin' that simple.

Also good, I'd use this for everything without a CON score (Such as constructs)

William Bryan wrote:


-I've been thinking about the Bleed dilemma. Just the word "bleed" refers to a character getting "wounded". So I want bleed to take damage off of WPs. So I'm debating weather or not to keep the rules as is but just add bleed damage to WP OR if the victim of a bleed attack has VPs left and they take bleed damage, have the victim simply take 1 bleed. If that same victim has no more VP and the monster's ability reads "subject takes 2d6 bleed", THEN roll 2d6 and take that off of WPs.

Here is where it gets problematic. 2d6 bleed can EASILY kill many characters in one or two rounds. I would say that for every 5 points of bleed you have you take 1 WP bleed damage (min one) otherwise that bleeding crit feat just became VERY powerful.


William Bryan wrote:


-For undead, I'm just adding VP and WP into one big pool. Then once it reaches 0, they're "dead". Keepin' that simple.

The trouble there is that undead and constructs are often destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points.

Under the Wounds and Vigor rules in Ultimate Combat, a creature's Wound Threshold is the equivalent to 0 Hit Points. Upon reaching one's Wound Threshold, said character or creature gains the Staggered Condition and needs to start worrying about Con Checks to stay conscious, and may start losing 1 Wound Point per Round if they take any Standard or Move Actions.

If you just lump a Construct's or an Undead creature's Wound Points and Vigor Points together in one pile, the Constructs and Undead will have more Points in the pile then they should.

Also....

Critical Hits within the Wounds and Vigor system have an additional feature that needs to be taken into account....

Ultimate Combat pg 207 wrote:


Critical Hits: When a creature is subject to a critical
hit, the critical hit deals the damage normally, reducing
vigor points first, and then reducing wound points when
vigor points are gone. It also deals an amount of wound
point damage equal to its critical multiplier (for example,
3 wound points for a weapon with a ×3 modifier), on top of
any wound point damage the creature might take from the
critical hit.

If you start lumping Wound and Vigor Points together into a single pile for Undead and Constructs, what happens to the damage that should be done directly to the Wound Points by a Weapon's Critical Multiplier when ever a Critical Hit is made?


I am still curious how the Wounds and Vigor system from Ultimate Combat should work with Creatures that have Damage Reduction.

Ultimate Combat pg 207 wrote:


Critical Hits: When a creature is subject to a critical
hit, the critical hit deals the damage normally, reducing
vigor points first, and then reducing wound points when
vigor points are gone. It also deals an amount of wound
point damage equal to its critical multiplier (for example,
3 wound points for a weapon with a ×3 modifier), on top of
any wound point damage the creature might take from the
critical hit.

For example:

A character wielding a rapier manages to critically hit a creature with damage reduction.

Does the Rapier's Critical Multiplier inflict 2 points of Wound Damage only if the damage rolled is enough to over come the Damage Reduction of the creature struck?

Does the Rapier inflict 2 points of wound damage regardless if the Damage Reduction is over come or not?

How does Negative Energy Damage like a Cause Light Wounds spell work when cast against a target that has Damage Reduction and Wound Points have been targeted instead of Vigor Points??


Anyone got any other insights to share?


JMecha wrote:
Anyone got any other insights to share?

I would apply DR to Vigor first if an attack deals both Vigor and Wound damage (such as a critical hit). Otherwise it is way too strong (effectively negating crits). It can still lower the VP damage significantly, but I wouldn't let it touch extra WP damage that a crit does.

If a target is at no VP and thus taking WP damage from a normal attack, then DR applies normally against that, reducing WP damage at its regular rate.

Negative energy and the like are explicitly dealt with in the description, and spell damage is never subject to DR.

I think bleed damage would apply like any other damage (except the ones specifically called out as going to WP first), which is to say it hits Vigor, then Wounds. This is in keeping with the idea of bleed as well. Bleed damage isn't a slash to the jugular which causes arterial bleeding and death in 5 seconds. It is the slow accumulation of cuts which, over time, will weaken someone to the point of death.

Think of great fight scenes in sword-and-sandal movies. The two gladiators go at each other and deliver a series of glancing blows which don't inflict serious damage, but get the blood flowing significantly. After a few minutes of fighting, those small wounds build up and the loss of blood takes one out (or weakens him enough to leave an opening). That is bleed damage. That sounds like the exact thing which VP is trying to model, so I'd have bleed deal full damage to VP.

Barbarian's rage increases Wound Points (which are tied to Con), but has no effect on Vigor Points (which are not tied to Con). These are not temporary WP (which are lost first), just like a rage normally does not grant temporary HP. If a barbarian takes WP damage and then drops out of his rage, all of that damage stays. If he has taken enough to wound or kill him, then he is wounded or killed as normal.


JMecha wrote:


Does the Rapier's Critical Multiplier inflict 2 points of Wound Damage only if the damage rolled is enough to over come the Damage Reduction of the creature struck?

I say regardless of DR, "deals an amount of wound

point damage equal to its critical multiplier".
The Wound/Vigor system is made that DR is good vs normal attacks, but Crits ignore the them and hurt wound points.

Quote:


How does Negative Energy Damage like a Cause Light Wounds spell work when cast against a target that has Damage Reduction and Wound Points have been targeted instead of Vigor Points??

CauseLW works on Vigor first. Energy damage ignores DR.


Starbuck_II wrote:
CauseLW works on Vigor first. Energy damage ignores DR.

It works on Vigor or Wounds, but not both, chosen by the caster.

If it works on Vigor, it deals damage normally. However, if it deals more damage than the target has vigor points, that extra damage is lost. It is not applied to Wounds.

If it works on Wounds, it deals one Wound damage per die that would be rolled. In the case of InflictLW, that would be 1.


I am inclined to agree with the both of you Bascaria, and Starbuck_II. Thank you both for taking the time to share your thoughts on the matter.


I agree that DR affects Vigor first, then wounds once vigor is depleted. Crits still apply crit modifier damage to wounds, no matter what. A crit is generally considered to have found a weak or vital spot, so, in my eyes, the extra damage to wounds bypasses DR (so long as regular weapon damage makes it through DR, like normal).

For undead, and constructs, and other creatures with no Con score (are there any others? I can think of one off the top of my head), I'd either give them only vigor and no wound points (For constructs. Constructs still get bonus VP based on size) and when they're at 0, they're dead. Or I'd give them VP equal to their HD total, like normal, and WP equal to their Cha score (not doubled) for undead. Again, when they're at 0 WP, they're dead(ish...again?...re-dead?).

Bleed, I think, should just be plain old normal. VP first, WP second. Easy.

I do have a question I'd like some feed back on, and since we're all here discussing the topic, I'll ask in this thread instead of starting another. I'm seriously considering switching to VP and WP for my next E7 campaign. Originally I was going to give the PCs Con score + Con mod for HP at first level, and then have them roll like normal for all others levels. This way they all have a little buffer to their HP since I'm going be fairly brutal (it's a gritty, mercenary style campaign), there is no way to bring back a character from the dead, and it mechanically reflects their military training (just a little bit tougher than average). My question is, do you think the increased ability to mitigate damage with the VP/WP system is equal to, or greater than my original version?

For example: One player's bard starts with 16 HP at 1st level (Con 14 + 2 from the Con mod) in my first version, and probably 22 HP at 2nd level. In the new system, he'd have 28 WP and 8 VP at 1st level, and 28 WP and 16 VP at 2nd. Seems like he'd be better off, but the healing rules are different, as well, so....


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JMecha wrote:
Undead are normally destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points, and so I am curious if Undead should also be destroyed upon reaching their Wound Threshold, or if they need to be reduced to 0 Wound Points.
Willian Bryan wrote:
-For undead, I'm just adding VP and WP into one big pool. Then once it reaches 0, they're "dead". Keepin' that simple.

This:

JMecha wrote:

The trouble there is that undead and constructs are often destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points.

Under the Wounds and Vigor rules in Ultimate Combat, a creature's Wound Threshold is the equivalent to 0 Hit Points. Upon reaching one's Wound Threshold, said character or creature gains the Staggered Condition and needs to start worrying about Con Checks to stay conscious, and may start losing 1 Wound Point per Round if they take any Standard or Move Actions.

And this:

Ultimate Combat pg.207 wrote:
Spells or Effects with Hit Point Triggers: When using this system, if a spell or an ability has an effect that occurs when you reduce a creature to 0 or fewer hit points (such as the disintegrate spell), that effect is instead triggered when a creature is wounded.
SimianChaos wrote:
Also good, I'd use this for everything without a CON score (Such as constructs)

To keep it simple undeads use their CHA score (not double) as wound points, and have no wound threshold. For constructs I would give them as wound points their Bonus Hit Points (10 for small, 20 for medium, etc), and also no wound threshold.

The only issue I have with this system is that it was made to low level play (and somewhat unfair to melees):

It greatly increases survival at the first levels: My 10 CON elf wizard starts with 16 "hit points", instead the normal 6 (ok, 10 of these is somewhat easier to loss, but even then). Also, I regain all my vigor points with a full night rest (but see below), that's great when the cleric is burned out of healing and the party have to sleep away from civilization. No complaints until there.

The problems starts after level 10 or a little earlier. As vigor points receive no bonus from CON, your "total hit points" become smaller than the core system. Let's take a 18 CON (no itens/stat increase) Barbarian as comparison:

____| "Total hit points" = Normal HP in core / VP + WP above wound threshold in the new system
Lvl__|_Core_| WnV System
_1__|__16__|__28
_5__|__56__|__54
10__|_110.5 |__86.5
15__|_163__|_119
20__|_215.5 |_151.5

Someone could argue that the VP repletion at rest will counter-balance this loss. But a high levels the PCs cannot rely on natural healing anymore. They will have more efficient healing methods (CLW wands and healing belts), and the cleric will have far more spells to heal them at the end of the day.

And finally about the bit of unfairness to melees. Critical hits depletes wound points directly. As they level up, casters acquires more ways to stay out of the fray and become less subjects to critical hits. The same cannot be say about melee types. As they level up they can fight longer, becoming more and more subject to critical hits. As everyone they have less "hit points" AND they wound points will deplete faster than caster/ranged types. Also, there's also all the thing about the staggered condition, caster/melee and action economy. A bit unfair, IMHO.

One side effect of this system is that end day healing will become forgotten (thanks to the vigor point repletion) and more wealth will be spent on the less effective combat heal, DR, critical deny, and CON/HP/VP increase.


freduncio wrote:
JMecha wrote:
Undead are normally destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points, and so I am curious if Undead should also be destroyed upon reaching their Wound Threshold, or if they need to be reduced to 0 Wound Points.
Willian Bryan wrote:
-For undead, I'm just adding VP and WP into one big pool. Then once it reaches 0, they're "dead". Keepin' that simple.

This:

JMecha wrote:

The trouble there is that undead and constructs are often destroyed upon reaching 0 Hit Points.

Under the Wounds and Vigor rules in Ultimate Combat, a creature's Wound Threshold is the equivalent to 0 Hit Points. Upon reaching one's Wound Threshold, said character or creature gains the Staggered Condition and needs to start worrying about Con Checks to stay conscious, and may start losing 1 Wound Point per Round if they take any Standard or Move Actions.

And this:

Ultimate Combat pg.207 wrote:
Spells or Effects with Hit Point Triggers: When using this system, if a spell or an ability has an effect that occurs when you reduce a creature to 0 or fewer hit points (such as the disintegrate spell), that effect is instead triggered when a creature is wounded.
SimianChaos wrote:
Also good, I'd use this for everything without a CON score (Such as constructs)

To keep it simple undeads use their CHA score (not double) as wound points, and have no wound threshold. For constructs I would give them as wound points their Bonus Hit Points (10 for small, 20 for medium, etc), and also no wound threshold.

The only issue I have with this system is that it was made to low level play (and somewhat unfair to melees):

It greatly increases survival at the first levels: My 10 CON elf wizard starts with 16 "hit points", instead the normal 6 (ok, 10 of these is somewhat easier to loss, but even then). Also, I regain all my vigor points with a full night rest (but see below), that's great when the cleric is burned out of healing and the party have to sleep away from civilization. No complaints until there.

The...

So the system is unfair to melees because, as melee types, they are in the fray and more subject to critical hits? But that was the case beforehand. Casters have always been better at avoiding combat while tanks are better at soaking up the hits. The barbarian has lower "total" HP, but lets say he gets hit with a longsword crit which deals 30 base damage. In the HP system this would double to 60 damage. In the VP/WP the base damage remains the same as VP damage, while the crit multiplier is applied to WP, dealing only 32 damage against his total. That's why having lower VP/WP total is alright. Crits deal less damage total.


Actually, I believe when it says that crits do damage normally, it means double the damage dice, like crits normally do. So it's be 60 to Vigor or Vigor and Wounds, if it wipes out the VP, plus the 2 points to Wounds from the crit multiplier. But, really, other than that, you're right. Melee types already took the brunt of the damage, and 2 or 3 extra points isn't going to matter at mid to high levels. It could be a monster at lower levels, but that's when you'd have more VP/WP than HP anyway.


The Eel wrote:
Actually, I believe when it says that crits do damage normally, it means double the damage dice, like crits normally do. So it's be 60 to Vigor or Vigor and Wounds, if it wipes out the VP, plus the 2 points to Wounds from the crit multiplier. But, really, other than that, you're right. Melee types already took the brunt of the damage, and 2 or 3 extra points isn't going to matter at mid to high levels. It could be a monster at lower levels, but that's when you'd have more VP/WP than HP anyway.

Ah, you are likely right.

It says "the critical hit deals the damage normally" which would mean it deals its critical damage normally.

I was remembering it as "the critical hit deals normal damage" which would mean no multiplying.


Also, I forgot to mention in my post above, in my original idea for HP in my new campaign, I made it so combatants are fatigued (basically -1 to rolls) at 1/2 HP and exhausted (-2) at 1/4 HP. The way staggered works with VP/WP, is this approximately the same, or similar, effect?


The system is a BIT unfair because while melees always stay into the fray soaking hits and critical hits (which had to dry all their (bigger) HP before cause them to become staggered), now the criticals also depletes a pool just a little bigger (and in some cases equal) to casters, leading them to a state that is worse on them.

i.e. This system is more dangerous to melees.

But now something striked me: if it isn't a typo, the CON check doesn't have the malus equal to the negative hit points. This means that being below your wound threshold doesn't means you are entirely out of combat.
Hmm... I can even put a Fort save on it to make the creature be exhausted instead of staggered... yep, works for me.

The Eel wrote:
Also, I forgot to mention in my post above, in my original idea for HP in my new campaign, I made it so combatants are fatigued (basically -1 to rolls) at 1/2 HP and exhausted (-2) at 1/4 HP. The way staggered works with VP/WP, is this approximately the same, or similar, effect?

Not really. Staggered is a way worse condition, also, it only kick in when you are at the brink of death.

But it's a nice rule, and you could also requires casters to make concentration checks at 1/4 HP.


freduncio wrote:


Not really. Staggered is a way worse condition, also, it only kick in when you are at the brink of death.
But it's a nice rule, and you could also requires casters to make concentration checks at 1/4 HP.

Staggered kicks in at your Wounds threshold, which is half your WP, or essentially, your Con score. This would be the equivalent of 0 HP, since you can survive negative HP equal to your Con score. But since this variant of staggered lets you keep making actions at the cost of 1 WP as long as you save, you're far more effective, and can reasonably get some healing before then. It's not really the brink of death.

I think you're on to something with the Con check question, though. I also wonder if the Con check (written as DC 10) is supposed to include a minus equal to the damage you have below your Wounds threshold. That would bring it in line with the way things work usually.

Also, thanks for the concentration check idea. If I stick with my original plan, I'm totally using that.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Sorry to butt in (and resurrect the thread somewhat) but only just finished reading ultimate combat and had a few things I was curious about.

1) Would having bleed work like the opposite of healing, such that it deals normal damage to Vigor, but only its amount of dice in damage to wounds.

2) We had trouble reconciling abilities like Fast Healing with the W&V system and was wondering if any one had solutions to that?

The Exchange

Malk_Content wrote:
1) Would having bleed work like the opposite of healing, such that it deals normal damage to Vigor, but only its amount of dice in damage to wounds.

The problem there is that not all bleed damage is inflicted via dice-worth of damage, some is just 'X' amount... so how would that work?

Malk_Content wrote:
2) We had trouble reconciling abilities like Fast Healing with the W&V system and was wondering if any one had solutions to that?

That's an interesting one... Fast Healing vitality (sorry... I mean 'vigor'...) points would seem to work normally, but what if the Fast Healer has taken wound points as well (say, from a critical hit)? I'd guess that wound points would be healed first (even if vigor points remain), then vigor points, not both at once.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
ProfPotts wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:
1) Would having bleed work like the opposite of healing, such that it deals normal damage to Vigor, but only its amount of dice in damage to wounds.

The problem there is that not all bleed damage is inflicted via dice-worth of damage, some is just 'X' amount... so how would that work?

Malk_Content wrote:
2) We had trouble reconciling abilities like Fast Healing with the W&V system and was wondering if any one had solutions to that?
That's an interesting one... Fast Healing vitality (sorry... I mean 'vigor'...) points would seem to work normally, but what if the Fast Healer has taken wound points as well (say, from a critical hit)? I'd guess that wound points would be healed first (even if vigor points remain), then vigor points, not both at once.

Ah forgot about the "x" amount bleeders. Will have to carefully look at alot of them and see whether or not just letting them deal their amount to wounds as normal would be acceptable.

For Fast Healing that would make it all of a sudden very powerful, though the power levels of alot of things will fluctuate with this system. Starting a new group tommorow and perhaps we can brainstorm it a bit more. Though the simpler we get it the better.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

So, what about precision damage?
Did I miss something there?


Franz Lunzer wrote:

So, what about precision damage?

Did I miss something there?

Precision damage should work normally. They lose vigor 'till they run out, then they take wound damage.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

That's odd though, isn't it?
I mean, Sneak attack practically screams for wound damage. Maybe one point per die?


Franz Lunzer wrote:

That's odd though, isn't it?

I mean, Sneak attack practically screams for wound damage. Maybe one point per die?

I'm not sure I follow the logic. How is sneak attacks screaming more for wound damage than hitting people in the face with big swords? Vigor is still an abstraction and it's reasonable to assume that any melee attack should work the same. If you want a more 'realistic' sneak attack option, Death Attack serves that purpose well enough. But that's true for both standard HP and vigor/wounds.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
PRD wrote:
Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

That doesn't sound like wound damage to you?

Anyway, what's your thought on my adaption? (1 point of wound damage per die of precision damage)
Workable?


Franz Lunzer wrote:
PRD wrote:
Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

That doesn't sound like wound damage to you?

Anyway, what's your thought on my adaption? (1 point of wound damage per die of precision damage)
Workable?

Rogues just got MUCH more deadly. 8th level rogue with TWF and ITWF gets 4 attacks on a full attack at +4/+4/-1/-1 (plus modifiers, etc). Each of these has 4d6 sneak attack. If this rogue can set up flanking and rolls well, then he is dealing 16 wound damage per round. Since he is likely using a rapier/short sword combo, it isn't unlikely that there will be at least 1 crit in there, meaning 18 wound damage. That can take a fighter to their wound threshold! Next level, that goes up to 22 wound damage.

Was the rogue doing a lot of damage before with all those sneak d6s? Sure. But there was also the chance of bad rolls (16d6 averages to 56). Now he can do guaranteed wound damage.

Dark Archive

Well, we DID playtest the Vigor/Wound system and it turns out that really no one cared for it all that much. Everybody agreed that it SOUNDED awesome but once implemented, slowed our game down dramatically.

Alas, stick to the HP system for us. Cheers!


Is it my imagination or does channelling negative energy (especially with quick channel after level 5) become a bit too good with this rule?

A level six evil cleric/anti-paladin can spend three channels as a full-round action to pop 6WP apiece on every living thing in range.


William Bryan wrote:

Well, we DID playtest the Vigor/Wound system and it turns out that really no one cared for it all that much. Everybody agreed that it SOUNDED awesome but once implemented, slowed our game down dramatically.

Alas, stick to the HP system for us. Cheers!

Right there with you. After running 4 sessions with WP/VP I scrapped it for a slightly modified HP system. Main reasons being it slowed down combat, it got confusing with things like stabilize, once you get past the wound threshhold you have to keep track of who's staggered, make a fort save for every action and deduct another wound point (actually, this is just a specific point with-in the first point... slowing down combat), and WP take too long to heal. The healer (2nd level oracle) can only heal 5 WP a day through her spells, plus 1 from rest? When she, herself, is down to 10/26 WP? No thanks... back to HP for us (actually switched mid-combat because it was so frustrating for everyone on either side of the screen.)

Grand Lodge

1. My question is what about poisons. Do they only work after you have actually done wound damage if they are applied via a wound?

2. Couldn't bleed just be one per die or the number given if static?

3. What does stabilize do now?

Dark Archive

Wound means serious damage getting a deabilitating wound to the gut as you are bleeding out. If I stab you in the arm, you can work through the pain. It doesn't mean there wasn't damage just not serious damage.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Also sneak attacks only do wound damage not both IMO.

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