Pathfinder Battles: Heroes & Monsters Brick


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The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Kruthiks and Greenspawn Razorfiends don't show up much in Pathfinder modules (funny that).
Just wanted to point out that the Greenspawn (and other Spawn of Tiamat) were actually created for Red Hand of Doom, a module written by some guy named Jacobs ;)

I did not know that!


Kyle Baird wrote:

Here's an idea for the future (assuming that you'll be opening cases yourselves to sell singles...):

Put together the following with a slight discount over purchasing them separately. Include the following:

  • A Pathfinder Module
  • A couple of corresponding Flip-maps or Map Packs
  • Enough corresponding minis to run the module

You realize that this would probably go for a killion dollars. I don't have too many of the Pathfinder Modules modules, but I have the Adventure Path modules. There tend to be lots and lots of different enemies in an AP instalment, and some of them will appear in force (even if you count the number seen "on screen" at once). the PF Modules are smaller, but I guess the sort of variety that goes on in the APs goes on there as well, albeit on a smaller scale.

You'd still be in for dozens of miniatures, and that would get quite expensive.


Reckless wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:

Oh, one thing I forgot:

I'd be all for a decent miniatures battle game.

I did play DDM a bit back when I was still collecting. Not in any tourneys or anything (since there was nothing around here), but with friends. I liked unleashing warbands on each other.

So if there is a way to get something going there, I'd be all over it.

And, hey, look, a Gnome! In the first preview! And it doesn't look like a halfling!

Just more proof that Paizo is simply better than that other, gnome-hating company!


While intrigued, I'm not a huge fan of blind box randomness. But, on the other hand, I do understand why it's being done. All I hope for is that the commons are really worth it (like maybe 2 types of Goblins or something) and that we get some generic player minis ... of the DDM game, I found the lack of player minis in the initial release a bit of a turn off for RPGers ...

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
the Haunted Jester wrote:
Would a possibility of creature sets becoming available for paper minis? ( As a compromise) Considering that it cannot be accomplished via pre-painted miniatures.

If you're talking about something like a set of goblins, that is just the kind of thing WizKids will be doing in their non-random Encounter Packs.

Though to answer your question specifically, what does or doesn't get done in the Pathfinder Battles line doesn't really affect what does or doesn't get done in the Paper Minis line. They're different products for a largely different audience.

the Haunted Jester wrote:
Also, will every figure from the series be available separately? or will only a few be available for individual sale?

We'll have singles of every mini in the set, at least until some of them sell out...

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Sketchpad wrote:
...and that we get some generic player minis...

Well, it *is* called "Heroes & Monsters"...


the Haunted Jester wrote:

Would a possibility of creature sets becoming available for paper minis? ( As a compromise) Considering that it cannot be accomplished via pre-painted miniatures.

Also, will every figure from the series be available separately? or will only a few be available for individual sale?

It sounds like that the non-random backs will not include everything from the sets. I'd guess that it will include stuff you want hordes of. Expect a bunch of orcs and common warriors and the like.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Sketchpad wrote:
...and that we get some generic player minis...
Well, it *is* called "Heroes & Monsters"...

This is true ... don't mind me, I was blinded by the shiny new minis ;)

Dark Archive

Just out of curiosity - how does this interact/compare with the releases from Reaper?

Is it safe to say that Bestiary lines, etc will be the realm of WizKids and the more "unique" characters (Big Bads, etc.) will remain the realm of Reaper?

Or is this more of a "we believe both can co-exist peacefully" kind of thing? Considering both lines likely appeal to different kind of collectors, I'm just curious how this will look to those of us who collect both.


Random = Bummer.

Please do not make a minis game.

DDM was to real wargames like Warmahordes and Warhammer what flat, warm supermarket-brand soda is to Coke and Pepsi. Please, let's not trivialize Pathfinder's awesomeness by recreating that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
David Wickham wrote:
Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?

Yes! It's called the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?

Yes, but here's an idea. If you are going to have randomized mini's then do not have randomized battle cards to go with them. Sell them in a set like you do the gamemastery cards. Specifically in a double pack like you did with the Dragon's Trove Deck. So instead of a 54 card deck you now have a 108 card deck. Assuming you set your battles game up similar to that of the DDM game this is where the fun begins. Let's play with numbers:

60 miniature randomized set
1 card in deck corresponding to each miniature
108 - 60 = 48 cards left over

Now with the remaining 48 cards create variants so that getting multiple mini's becomes more exciting. For example the Gnome Fighter miniature could have 3 corresponding cards in the deck:
Card 1 = Gnome Fighter 3
Card 2 = Gnome Fighter 5 / Duelist 2
Card 3 = Gnome Fighter (Tactician Archtype) 12

Suddenly having 3 Gnome Fighters doesn't seem so bad.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Steelfiredragon wrote:

note: no seoni

no buy

I'll just note that we'd like to see all of our iconics in prepainted plastic form at some point, and so we'll be sprinkling one or two into each release.

pathfinder iconics sure.

sorry, I dont buy random minis any more, never got the ones I wanted that way, ended up buying them from a 3rd party and they cost mroe out of my pocket that way...

Liberty's Edge

Preorder placed.


Oh, so many thoughts. =]

I think the Reaper minis will still have support from consumers. Many players and GMs buy them to fit a niche role in their games, and a different palette and some selective attention to detail can drastically alter a miniature's appearance when you paint it yourself.

Glad to hear the non-random theme packs are likely to emerge. I would also imagine that Paizo's insight into the popularity of individual minis via their fan base will allow WizKids to deliver sets that both sell well and please we obsessive masses here!

Any skirmish-style game designed to work with the sets still needs to be kept bare-bones simple, IMO. The Star Wars CMG, for example, never got too complex - if you knew the basic rules, you rarely had to reference them unless you fielded a crazy Force user or unique that had too many abilities to fit on a stat card. That would be a good level of complexity to shoot for - or perhaps the Beginner's Box rules that omit the troubles of high-level play and nitpicky combat options. You could also directly tie the skirmish game stats to the RPG so that anyone picking up a mini has working stats for the miniature's use in the full RPG - in other words, those core statistics such as hp, AC, DR/Resist, Atk, CMB/CMD are the same in both versions of the game.

The idea of multiple accompanying stat cards for any given miniature (ex. multiple troll builds), be they for a minis skirmish-style game or the RPG itself, is intriguing, but I can't begin to imagine the effect it might have on sales.

EDIT: Oh, and James, just so you know, I will give up my Red Hand War Sorcerer miniature when they pry my Lawful Evil warband out of my cold dead hands. =]


James Jacobs wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Kruthiks and Greenspawn Razorfiends don't show up much in Pathfinder modules (funny that).
Just wanted to point out that the Greenspawn (and other Spawn of Tiamat) were actually created for Red Hand of Doom, a module written by some guy named Jacobs ;)

While true... I wasn't really a fan of the whole dragonspawn idea in the first place. AKA: That was one of the parts of "Red Hand of Doom" that I didn't come up with the idea for, and that I would have done differently had I been 100% in charge of the adventure. :-P

That said, I really like how the greenspawn razorfiend turned out in mini form.

You are perfect. The fist threefourth of the adventure is just fantastic.

Liberty's Edge

Vic Wertz wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:
I just want to know if the Rise of the Runelords set is actually tied to that AP or if it's just a marketing gimmick.
I've seen the set list, and it's quite fabulous. And it ties in very neatly to the Adventure Path, which is, of course, still available in PDF form.

Perhaps then would be a good time to:

a) Update "Rise of the Runelords" to the Pathfinder Rules
b) Release the AP as one big book (aka Shackled City)

Just a thought.

Grand Lodge

Kalraan wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:
I just want to know if the Rise of the Runelords set is actually tied to that AP or if it's just a marketing gimmick.
I've seen the set list, and it's quite fabulous. And it ties in very neatly to the Adventure Path, which is, of course, still available in PDF form.

Perhaps then would be a good time to:

a) Update "Rise of the Runelords" to the Pathfinder Rules
b) Release the AP as one big book (aka Shackled City)

Just a thought.

There's a prevalent belief (whether true or not) that we may hear something aout that coming out of GenCon. I managed to track down the original books fairly cheap, but I'd certainly buy a PFRPG updated Hardback.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

VagrantWhisper wrote:

Just out of curiosity - how does this interact/compare with the releases from Reaper?

Is it safe to say that Bestiary lines, etc will be the realm of WizKids and the more "unique" characters (Big Bads, etc.) will remain the realm of Reaper?

Or is this more of a "we believe both can co-exist peacefully" kind of thing? Considering both lines likely appeal to different kind of collectors, I'm just curious how this will look to those of us who collect both.

You will probably find that Reaper will have a higher concentration of PC-types (because that's what they like) and WizKids will have a higher concentration of critters (because that's what they like), but we'll ensure that they'll both still have plenty of each.

I will say that when we came up with the list for the Rise of the Runelords set, we certainly did look at the minis that Reaper has done from that AP. For example, we looked at the ogres that Reaper did, and made different choices for WizKids. But that's not to say there's no overlap, of course; we wouldn't let the fact that Reaper did Karzoug stop us from having Karzoug in the WizKids line. But even where we do have the same character in both lines, we'll try to use different reference art where possible so that they're not *too* similar.


I sooooo hate randomization but I understand the marketing decision behind it. I also think the price is just a tad bit too high, but I guess we'll see.

I could see buying a case if I went in half with someone and then split them. Otherwise, there's no way I'd buy individual boosters blind.

Dark Archive

Ok before I pre-order a case, can you guys 100% guarantee I will be able to buy that black dragon?


You can always tell which posters to these plastic minis threads don't collect or play with metal figs. They're the ones who predict or hint at the demise of the metal or "helpfully" offer hope that it shouldn't run the metal out of business too soon.

Companies like Reaper are not in danger from a bit of plastic competition. They have legions of adherents with no intention of abandoning them over plastic. Plus they have their own plastic stuff, too. And it all works together happily.

Didn't Paizo used to do those cool little packages with a few metal figs/props and a short adventure? GameMastery thingies?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Coltaine wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Kruthiks and Greenspawn Razorfiends don't show up much in Pathfinder modules (funny that).
Just wanted to point out that the Greenspawn (and other Spawn of Tiamat) were actually created for Red Hand of Doom, a module written by some guy named Jacobs ;)

While true... I wasn't really a fan of the whole dragonspawn idea in the first place. AKA: That was one of the parts of "Red Hand of Doom" that I didn't come up with the idea for, and that I would have done differently had I been 100% in charge of the adventure. :-P

That said, I really like how the greenspawn razorfiend turned out in mini form.

You are perfect. The fist threefourth of the adventure is just fantastic.

Wait a minute... the part I wrote was pretty much the last three fourths! Pretty much everything from the hydra encounter in the swamp to the end, with the exception of a few of the war encounters along the way between towns...

Contributor

Bruunwald wrote:

Didn't Paizo used to do those cool little packages with a few metal figs/props and a short adventure? GameMastery thingies?

Compleat Encounters, right here.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
Ok before I pre-order a case, can you guys 100% guarantee I will be able to buy that black dragon?

If you order the case from us, we'll make sure that that any offer that's extended to case buyers, including the Black Dragon offer, is extended to you. (I wish I could tell you what the *terms* of that offer were right now, but it really hasn't been finalized.)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Coltaine wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Kruthiks and Greenspawn Razorfiends don't show up much in Pathfinder modules (funny that).
Just wanted to point out that the Greenspawn (and other Spawn of Tiamat) were actually created for Red Hand of Doom, a module written by some guy named Jacobs ;)

While true... I wasn't really a fan of the whole dragonspawn idea in the first place. AKA: That was one of the parts of "Red Hand of Doom" that I didn't come up with the idea for, and that I would have done differently had I been 100% in charge of the adventure. :-P

That said, I really like how the greenspawn razorfiend turned out in mini form.

You are perfect. The fist threefourth of the adventure is just fantastic.
Wait a minute... the part I wrote was pretty much the last three fourths! Pretty much everything from the hydra encounter in the swamp to the end, with the exception of a few of the war encounters along the way between towns...

Well in that case I really liked the first quarter of the adventure. ;)

Dark Archive

Bruunwald wrote:
You can always tell which posters to these plastic minis threads don't collect or play with metal figs.

I hope you didn't imply this from my post?

Considering I play several "metal" based wargames, and not 5 minutes ago just put the last detail on a metal Seoni from Reaper, I'm reasonably safe in knowing that both will survive..

What I was more concerned with (and Vic answered very nicely) was that we'd see the same sculpts across both lines, or that eventually there wouldn't be enough to differentiate the lines.

I actually quite like that I can get a super detailed PC/BBEG mini in metal to paint and a day-to-day (though still nice looking) to toss on the table plastic.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

YourSwordisMine wrote:

You lost me at random...

Isnt this what eventually killed DDM? That and the crappy minis...

21 randomized sets comprising more than a thousand distinct minis over the course of 7 years? Yeah, random sets sure killed them fast :)


deinol wrote:
[...]And if you really need to get a specific mini, there is always the excellent pewter Reaper line to buy from.

Which is exactly what I am already doing ;)

Vic Wertz wrote:

I think that might be the part that's not obvious from the outside: the random element doesn't just make it "cheaper" or "more profitable"—it makes it possible.

The option is not "random" vs. "non-random"; it's "random" vs. "not doing it".

I clearly get this and really I do understand it makes it cheap enough to actually have a market large enough to do it. HOWEVER it just means, you didn't manage to sell this product to me (and I am probably one of the few here). It just doesn't appeal to me.

An example of problems for me, say goblins have been mentioned as one of the "used a lot everyone wants", well for me goblin is a monster I actually only fielded twice in my gaming years, so they are, well non interesting for [u]me[/u], but a lot of people are going to love them I am certain. So while I absolutely loath painting minis I will continue to do so for the few (see I am really not going to take a lot of minis off people's hands) I do feel I need or use my classic "the d20 is the big evil monster and the d6s are his minions" ;)


Justin Franklin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Coltaine wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Kruthiks and Greenspawn Razorfiends don't show up much in Pathfinder modules (funny that).
Just wanted to point out that the Greenspawn (and other Spawn of Tiamat) were actually created for Red Hand of Doom, a module written by some guy named Jacobs ;)

While true... I wasn't really a fan of the whole dragonspawn idea in the first place. AKA: That was one of the parts of "Red Hand of Doom" that I didn't come up with the idea for, and that I would have done differently had I been 100% in charge of the adventure. :-P

That said, I really like how the greenspawn razorfiend turned out in mini form.

You are perfect. The fist threefourth of the adventure is just fantastic.
Wait a minute... the part I wrote was pretty much the last three fourths! Pretty much everything from the hydra encounter in the swamp to the end, with the exception of a few of the war encounters along the way between towns...
Well in that case I really liked the first quarter of the adventure. ;)

James Jacobs writes adventures? I always thought he helped out around the office or something.


Interesting news!

Super yay for prepainted plastic minis. I don't have time for mini painting.
I don't mind the randomized packs; in the perfect world I could cherrypick but that's what aftermarket's for.
The price is a bit hefty.

My main concern is something no one else has mentioned - I don't really like the paint jobs I'm seeing on the pics. All the colors are very.. basic, or something. Especially the fur/hair colors, I'm not grooving on. But, let's see what the final ones look like...


For those upset about the random nature I think it's worth noting that Paizo provides a relatively easy way for the completists with high disposable incomes to keep your unrandom needs met.

I am eagerly awaiting whatever subscription service gets offered so that I can pick up two cases of each. Paizo provide a singles-for-credit service (I just learnt) so that means there's an easy way for me to ditch those minis which are surplus to my requirements (presuming the shipping from Australia doesnt make it prohibitive).

On that note - if I order two cases of this release - will I be able to get two of the black dragon figures (and similar with other promotions)?


I don't think the randomization thing is such a big deal. We have to remember that paizo has experience as a third party seller, so they know not to let the market get flooded with the same range of rarities as D&D minis.

As for the price, it highly depends on the product quality. D&D commons got very cheap at the low end of rarity, but most sets also looked like crap. The preview minis we've seen so far have looked so good it's unbelievable. If the finished product looks even close to that I'd gladly pay a higher price for it.

Liberty's Edge

I cannot believe how strongly I am considering just whipping out the Charge Card. LOL!

Grand Lodge

Pre-ordered. Impatiently waiting begins now.

Dark Archive

I think I will reserve ordering any boosters or bricks (as a case is out of the question despite me drooling over the black dragon) until I see what specified sets will be made available.

As well as seeing how the miniatures turn out for the Beginner Box Heroes set.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Steve Geddes wrote:
Paizo provide a singles-for-credit service (I just learnt) so that means there's an easy way for me to ditch those minis which are surplus to my requirements (presuming the shipping from Australia doesnt make it prohibitive).

Actually, we're only buying D&D Minis. In order for us to buy back Pathfinder Battles minis, we'd need to be selling out of our own singles, and your guess will be as good as mine as to whether that will happen.

Steve Geddes wrote:
On that note - if I order two cases of this release - will I be able to get two of the black dragon figures (and similar with other promotions)?

Yes.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

the Haunted Jester wrote:
I think I will reserve ordering any boosters or bricks (as a case is out of the question despite me drooling over the black dragon) until I see what specified sets will be made available.

The non-random sets (after the Beginner Box Heroes) will fill the months between Heroes & Monsters and Rise of the Runelords, and I suspect that you may know what *some* but not *all* of them are before Heroes & Monsters is released. (Also, while some figures in those sets will be repaints and/or resculpts from Heroes & Monsters, some will probably be repaints and/or resculpts from Rise of the Runelords.)

the Haunted Jester wrote:
As well as seeing how the miniatures turn out for the Beginner Box Heroes set.

Totally understandable.

I should mention that we'll be bringing the Beginner Box Heroes paint masters to Gen Con, and showing them off at some of our panels, so I'm confident that you'll *also* get to hear from non-employees about how awesome they are.


I hate you guys..just when I thought I had finished with Pre-painted minis you have to go and do this..and at a price where I might..and I mean might... be able to afford one case a year if I abandon all my Paizo subs..sighs time to start working on my FLGS guy.

I suspect I'll just be buying the encounter packs though


James Jacobs wrote:
Coltaine wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Kruthiks and Greenspawn Razorfiends don't show up much in Pathfinder modules (funny that).
Just wanted to point out that the Greenspawn (and other Spawn of Tiamat) were actually created for Red Hand of Doom, a module written by some guy named Jacobs ;)

While true... I wasn't really a fan of the whole dragonspawn idea in the first place. AKA: That was one of the parts of "Red Hand of Doom" that I didn't come up with the idea for, and that I would have done differently had I been 100% in charge of the adventure. :-P

That said, I really like how the greenspawn razorfiend turned out in mini form.

You are perfect. The fist threefourth of the adventure is just fantastic.
Wait a minute... the part I wrote was pretty much the last three fourths! Pretty much everything from the hydra encounter in the swamp to the end, with the exception of a few of the war encounters along the way between towns...

Hmmm, did you write the whole fane of Tiamat? It just seemed so arbitrary and anti climactic compared to everything else before hand. The Ghostlord is one of my fav encounters of all time.

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:
the Haunted Jester wrote:
I think I will reserve ordering any boosters or bricks (as a case is out of the question despite me drooling over the black dragon) until I see what specified sets will be made available.

The non-random sets (after the Beginner Box Heroes) will fill the months between Heroes & Monsters and Rise of the Runelords, and I suspect that you may know what *some* but not *all* of them are before Heroes & Monsters is released. (Also, while some figures in those sets will be repaints and/or resculpts from Heroes & Monsters, some will probably be repaints and/or resculpts from Rise of the Runelords.)

the Haunted Jester wrote:
As well as seeing how the miniatures turn out for the Beginner Box Heroes set.

Totally understandable.

I should mention that we'll be bringing the Beginner Box Heroes paint masters to Gen Con, and showing them off at some of our panels, so I'm confident that you'll *also* get to hear from non-employees about how awesome they are.

Cannot wait to see them and hear the feedback!! Please anyone going to GenCon keep us unfortunate souls up to date!!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Coltaine wrote:
Hmmm, did you write the whole fane of Tiamat? It just seemed so arbitrary and anti climactic compared to everything else before hand. The Ghostlord is one of my fav encounters of all time.

Yup, I did the whole fane of Tiamat all right. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Love Love Love. I will be buying these definitley.

Other things I would like to see

1. Yes I would use rules for a mini based game.
2 Would definitely like to see a boxed set of commons to a theme...eg a box of skeleton soldiers with a skeleton champion. Or a box of Town guards with a Captain figure etc...You get the idea the kind of things we use a lot of all in one box so we pay a little less for bulk and you know you'll be selling a bunch of them.

All in all though very pleased. Thankyou Paizo and Wizkids


Vic Wertz wrote:
Actually, we're only buying D&D Minis. In order for us to buy back Pathfinder Battles minis, we'd need to be selling out of our own singles, and your guess will be as good as mine as to whether that will happen.

Ah, I see - my mistake.


Well well well, christmas just got slightly better!

The Exchange

James Jacobs wrote:
Coltaine wrote:
Hmmm, did you write the whole fane of Tiamat? It just seemed so arbitrary and anti climactic compared to everything else before hand. The Ghostlord is one of my fav encounters of all time.
Yup, I did the whole fane of Tiamat all right. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

The fane was actually the only part of that run that we, as group, all felt like was diminished by deadlines and was the least fun. However as the party is about to meet Karzoug in the same fashion as they met Tiamat it should be really fun.

On topic Paizo is the monkey-funking best. Random PPM is the best way to get em to me and it don't bother me at all. I would rather spend $20 on 5-10 minis than $4 on 1-2, the math works the same but since I'm buying a case it doesn't matter.

Is the huge black dragon availible to us that buy a case or just stores that do?

BTW - if you guys are walking down the street and a lady yells expletives at you, she's not crazy that's my wife who hates my outrageous minis collection that's about to get even bigger!

Liberty's Edge

Do you have a list of all the minis in the first two sets? and maybe a linky to this black dragon I'm hearing about?


Abraham spalding wrote:
Honestly it's cheaper to buy Warhammer 40k minis -- and yes that is an insult.

Uh, you bought 40K minis lately? Mastercast resins?

Grand Lodge

Sweet Wizkids does great stuff.

I once a judge for their Heroclix back in the day.


To answer a couple recent questions.

Vic has said that everyone who orders a case, store or not, will be given a chance to buy the black dragon.

Vic also said that wizkids normally release the full set lists much closer to release, so none yet.

The Exchange

Screw it, I'm buying.

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