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I have a player in my upcoming Carrion Crown game that has Iomedae as her deity. Now also she's decided to take Sun and BOTH Sub-domains for Glory, Heroism and Honor. My question is this: Is this allowed, ruleswise. I want to say no as the DM but I also don't want to change stuff around JUST yet.
So could I have an official ruling please?
Clerics can select two domains only. Subdomains are only domains with a very narrow focus, not "half-domains".
I have a player in my upcoming Carrion Crown game that has Iomedae as her deity. Now also she's decided to take Sun and BOTH Sub-domains for Glory, Heroism and Honor. My question is this: Is this allowed, ruleswise. I want to say no as the DM but I also don't want to change stuff around JUST yet.
So could I have an official ruling please?
I can't find text specifically disallowing BOTH subdomains, but it would seem to be the RAI as you cannot take the subdomain AND it's associated domain. 'The subdomain effectively replaces its associated domain.'
Regardless of that though, you definitely cannot take two subdomains AND a regular domain. That's THREE domains.
Edit: Doh, ninja'd by Necromancer
I think that Necromancer is correct.
References...
Also presented below are rules for subdomains—more specific focuses for clerical worship and power that allow players greater flexibility in customizing their characters. Every domain has a number of subdomains associated with it. Each subdomain replaces a granted power and a number of spells in the domain’s granted spell list. Spells marked with an asterisk (*) are from the Advanced Player's Guide. A cleric who chooses a subdomain must have access to both the domain and its subdomain from her deity (see Table: Deities of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting). If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot select its Associated Domain as her other domain choice (in effect, the subdomain replaces its Associated Domain). Subdomains are treated as equivalent to their Associated Domain for any effect or prerequisite based on domains. If a subdomain has two Associated Domains, the cleric can only select the subdomain for one of her domains. If a subdomain ability calls for a saving throw, the DC of the save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the character’s cleric level her Wisdom modifier. Subdomains can be selected by druids (except the metal subdomain) and inquisitors (if their deity allows it).
Edit: ninja'd after I ninja'd...wow
I have a player in my upcoming Carrion Crown game that has Iomedae as her deity. Now also she's decided to take Sun and BOTH Sub-domains for Glory, Heroism and Honor. My question is this: Is this allowed, ruleswise. I want to say no as the DM but I also don't want to change stuff around JUST yet.
So could I have an official ruling please?
emphasis mine :)
APG pg 86
Subdomains
Presented in the section below are new rules for
subdomains—more specific focuses for clerical worship
and power that allow players greater f lexibility in
customizing their characters. Every domain has a number
of subdomains associated with it (see Table 2–11 for a
complete list). Each subdomain replaces a granted power
and a number of spells in the domain’s granted spell list.
Spells marked with an asterisk (*) are detailed in Chapter 5
of this book. A cleric who chooses a subdomain must have
access to both the domain and its subdomain from her deity
(see Table 2–12). If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot
select its associated domain as her other domain choice
(in effect, the subdomain replaces its associated domain).
Subdomains are treated as equivalent to their associated
domain for any effect or prerequisite based on domains.
If a subdomain has two associated domains, the cleric
can only select the subdomain for one of her domains.
Subdomains can be selected by druids (except the metal
subdomain) and inquisitors (if their deity allows it).
If a subdomain ability calls for a saving throw, the DC
of the save is equal to 10 + 1/2
you can't take the domain and subdomain
edi: ninja'd :(
Right. So if I'm reading this right, she's only allowed Sun and ONE of the Sub-domains. Not both. Correct?
That's it. Sun domain (no Sun subdomains) and one Glory subdomain.
Do also note that the subdomains replace the features from the domain.
You can't get the powers of both Sun and Day, for example. The features from Day subdomain replace those of Sun where indicated.
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Do also note that the subdomains replace the features from the domain.
You can't get the powers of both Sun and Day, for example. The features from Day subdomain replace those of Sun where indicated.
Right well she's not taking ANY of the Sun subdomains. Just the ones for Glory.
So it only applies to Glory, meaning she can only have Heroism OR Honor. Not both.
Same deal applies. They trade out abilities from Glory. No getting Glory AND Heroism or Honour powers.
But she'll get some of the base glory -- the parts that Honor doesn't overwrite (or Heroism, whichever one it is that she picked...)
So to be clear:
You can take only ONE subdomain. You can't take BOTH.
Yep only one subdomain. In your case she could only get heroism or honor not both.
So to be clear:
You can take only ONE subdomain. You can't take BOTH.
Correct. Even if the player does not pick another domain, they cannot pick two or more subdomains listed under the same domain. This is because the subdomain replaces its parent domain when chosen. The player could pick Sun and Glory, Sun and Heroism, or Sun and Honor.
Correct. Even if the player does not pick another domain, they cannot pick two or more subdomains listed under the same domain. This is because the subdomain replaces its parent domain when chosen. The player could pick Sun and Glory, Sun and Heroism, or Sun and Honor.
This is the reason I always found subdomains to be confusing. Let's say I worship Sarenrae and choose the Glory and Healing domains. Let's sayI really like the restoration subdomain. Do I choose Glory/Healing but with the Restoration subdomain just replacing the powers or am I limited to taking Glory/Restoration and getting none of the benefits of the rest of the Healing subdomain?
This is the reason I always found subdomains to be confusing. Let's say I worship Sarenrae and choose the Glory and Healing domains. Let's sayI really like the restoration subdomain. Do I choose Glory/Healing but with the Restoration subdomain just replacing the powers or am I limited to taking Glory/Restoration and getting none of the benefits of the rest of the Healing subdomain?
Correct. Even if the player does not pick another domain, they cannot pick two or more subdomains listed under the same domain. This is because the subdomain replaces its parent domain when chosen. The player could pick Sun and Glory, Sun and Heroism, or Sun and Honor.
You either pick Healing or it's subdomain restoration, if you pick restoration ithe powers and spells replace those of the healing domain at the indicated levels.
You either pick Healing or it's subdomain restoration, if you pick restoration ithe powers and spells replace those of the healing domain at the indicated levels.This is the reason I always found subdomains to be confusing. Let's say I worship Sarenrae and choose the Glory and Healing domains. Let's sayI really like the restoration subdomain. Do I choose Glory/Healing but with the Restoration subdomain just replacing the powers or am I limited to taking Glory/Restoration and getting none of the benefits of the rest of the Healing subdomain?
Correct. Even if the player does not pick another domain, they cannot pick two or more subdomains listed under the same domain. This is because the subdomain replaces its parent domain when chosen. The player could pick Sun and Glory, Sun and Heroism, or Sun and Honor.
Thank you, Remco.
Thank you, Remco.You either pick Healing or it's subdomain restoration, if you pick restoration ithe powers and spells replace those of the healing domain at the indicated levels.This is the reason I always found subdomains to be confusing. Let's say I worship Sarenrae and choose the Glory and Healing domains. Let's sayI really like the restoration subdomain. Do I choose Glory/Healing but with the Restoration subdomain just replacing the powers or am I limited to taking Glory/Restoration and getting none of the benefits of the rest of the Healing subdomain?
Correct. Even if the player does not pick another domain, they cannot pick two or more subdomains listed under the same domain. This is because the subdomain replaces its parent domain when chosen. The player could pick Sun and Glory, Sun and Heroism, or Sun and Honor.
Exactly.
It should also be mentioned that a cleric can have two subdomains as long they do not share the same (basic) domain. A cleric with access to the Sun and Glory domains has the following options:
1 - Glory and Sun
2 - Glory and Day
3 - Glory and Light
4 - Heroism and Sun
5 - Heroism and Day
6 - Heroism and Light
7 - Honor and Sun
8 - Honor and Day
9 - Honor and Light
Yes, a cleric can have two subdomains at once, but they cannot associate with the same domain.
Glory's associated subdomains are Heroism and Honor.
Sun's associated subdomains are Day and Light.
It might be better to think of it as choosing between Glory, Glory(Heroism) and Glory(Honor). That makes it clearer you can only have one of the three.