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I have an Inquisitor in PFS who likes to turn his adversaries into Pincushion with the arrows he shoots from his +1 Composite Longbow (with +2 str).
After squaring off with some incorporeal undead, I have decided my inquisitor is in need of a weapon with the “Ghost touch” quality.
How would I go about this? Do I need to purchase a new +1 Composite Longbow (+2 str bonus) with the Ghost touch ability? Or can I simply add the “Ghost Touch” quality to my existing bow? If possible how much would this improvement cost?
Thank you
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Sorry, you cannot add ghost touch to bows. It is only a property for melee weapons.
Where does it say that? I am looking at the description of Ghost Touch's description and there is no mention of it only working for melee weapons.
Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage
normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of
its bonus. An incorporeal creature’s 50% reduction in
damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks
made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can
be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any
time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against
corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as
both corporeal or incorporeal.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, plane shift; Price +1 bonus.
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Callerak, thank you for that excellent suggestion, however in the long run, it is a far better solution to have a ranged weapon with the ghost touch ability. I will eventually run out of Ghost touch arrows, but with a Ghost touch bow, I will only need to make make an initial investment.
Well on second thought, Callerak, with my character having completed 23/33 possible adventures, 50 +1 ghost touch arrows might not be a bad idea, that would average 10 arrows spent per adventure, assuming I run into an incorporeal foe in each adventure.
Joseph Caubo, thank you for pointing that out. I am sure you are correct, but for my own edification, ill look it up....so i remember it next time.
My character has at 8th level accumulated some 43 prestige points. I think that will allow me to buy a magical item up to 31,000 gp. Joseph, what is the "fame" property you mention?.
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My character has at 8th level accumulated some 43 prestige points. I think that will allow me to buy a magical item up to 31,000 gp. Joseph, what is the "fame" property you mention?.
Fame is your TPA (Total Prestige Award) - new name as of Season 3 (with "Prestige Points" being your CPA (Current Prestige Award)... currently).
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Callerak, thank you for that excellent suggestion, however in the long run, it is a far better solution to have a ranged weapon with the ghost touch ability. I will eventually run out of Ghost touch arrows, but with a Ghost touch bow, I will only need to make make an initial investment.
Well on second thought, Callerak, with my character having completed 23/33 possible adventures, 50 +1 ghost touch arrows might not be a bad idea, that would average 10 arrows spent per adventure, assuming I run into an incorporeal foe in each adventure.
Joseph Caubo, thank you for pointing that out. I am sure you are correct, but for my own edification, ill look it up....so i remember it next time.
My character has at 8th level accumulated some 43 prestige points. I think that will allow me to buy a magical item up to 31,000 gp. Joseph, what is the "fame" property you mention?.
The main issue would be that, unlike true ranged weapon magical properties, the Ghost Touch property does not say it applies to ammunition fired from a ghost touch weapon.
From the Ranged Weapon table:
2 Bows, crossbows, and slings crafted with this ability
bestow this power upon their ammunition.
Abilities listed above include Bane, Flaming, Frost, and others.
Ghost Touch is not listed on the tabel for Ranged weapons, and the power itself says:
Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage
normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of
its bonus. An incorporeal creature’s 50% reduction in
damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks
made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can
be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any
time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against
corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as
both corporeal or incorporeal.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, plane shift; Price +1 bonus.
I guess you could put it on a bow, but it would only hurt incorporeal if you use the bow as an improvised melee weapon. Maybe.
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Well my reasoning wasn't that complicated. If a magical ranged weapon, passed on its enchanted qualities to the projectile it fired, Ie arrows fired from a +1 bow were magical arrows, then it logically follows, arrows fired from a +1 ghost touch bow, were +1 magical Ghost touch arrows.
Majuba thank you for the clarification
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Solution: Buy a batch of 50 +1 Ghost Touch arrows for 8301 GP.
Expensive, but you only need to use them when you have to, and it leaves room for other enhancements on the bow.
I don't think this would work either.
If it's not available for ranged weapons, it would not be available for ammunition.EDIT: And the rules and table spell out which qualities are passed on to ammunition. The rules say enhancement bonuses and alignment pass on. The table indicates which specific properties go to ammo (granted that is almost all of them on the table).
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Yes, Fame is the new term for TPA, as Majuba pointed out.
Don't worry, I wish I had a ghost touch bow as well - I'd say it's almost necessary for all PFS characters to have a ghost touch weapon.
/Was watching Harry Potter.
//Liches get such bad wraps.
///If only Voldemort lived and Harry died.
////He was the only undead in a realm with just arcane casters.
////He had 7 phylacteries, what a BAMF!
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Yes, Fame is the new term for TPA, as Majuba pointed out.
Don't worry, I wish I had a ghost touch bow as well - I'd say it's almost necessary for all PFS characters to have a ghost touch weapon.
/Was watching Harry Potter.
//Liches get such bad wraps.
///If only Voldemort lived and Harry died.
////He was the only undead in a realm with just arcane casters.
////He had 7 phylacteries, what a BAMF!
But Joe, why would you say that? You make it sound as though incorporeal creatures ruined your day and caused all of your loot to get stolen.
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Solution: Buy a batch of 50 +1 Ghost Touch arrows for 8301 GP.
Expensive, but you only need to use them when you have to, and it leaves room for other enhancements on the bow.
I don't think this would work either.
If it's not available for ranged weapons, it would not be available for ammunition.EDIT: And the rules and table spell out which qualities are passed on to ammunition. The rules say enhancement bonuses and alignment pass on. The table indicates which specific properties go to ammo (granted that is almost all of them on the table).
It doesn't say melee only, so, while it would not pass to ammunition as a property from the launching weapon (bow, crossbow, sling, gun), I see nothing that says it can't be put onto ammunition.
Unless, of course, you are going to allow the Seeking property to serve the same function...
Seeking: Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability.
The weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances
that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The
wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows
mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer
and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.
Strong divination; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor,
true seeing; Price +1 bonus.
My archer character would be happy with that, since his bow is Seeking... (More things with a miss chance than incorporeal undead in his adventuring career. So far.)
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It's not in the ranged weapon table is why. Only things in that table can be applied to ranged attack weapons.
Sure. But ammunition is NOT the weapon. Ammunition is ammunition. The longbow is the weapon, in this case.
Maybe ammunition should have its own enhancement table....
You usually take feats with longbow, not arrow.
Hmmm. New PC:
Catch Off-Guard or Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Arrow?
Throw Anything or Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Arrow? Would you need a separate feat to be able to throw arrows as well as wield them in melee?
Weapon Focus: Arrow
Weapon Specialization: Arrow
Vital Strike: Arrow
Improved Critical: Arrow
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It doesn't say melee only, so, while it would not pass to ammunition as a property from the launching weapon (bow, crossbow, sling, gun), I see nothing that says it can't be put onto ammunition.
More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.
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More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.It doesn't say melee only, so, while it would not pass to ammunition as a property from the launching weapon (bow, crossbow, sling, gun), I see nothing that says it can't be put onto ammunition.
So, let's screw ranged users some more? That, after all, is the only way to maintain something close to parity for damage on attacks in some cases.
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More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.
Reference please (for the not allowed in PFS). You're saying I can't buy a ring + 2 of Invisibility for 38,000 gp? 8,000 for the +2 ring, plus 20,000 x 1.5 for the invisibility.
Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place."
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts|
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More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.Reference please (for the not allowed in PFS). You're saying I can't buy a ring + 2 of Invisibility for 38,000 gp? 8,000 for the +2 ring, plus 20,000 x 1.5 for the invisibility.
Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place."-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
Yup, that's exactly what he's saying. And he's right. You can't create items that are not expressly in the book.
I don't think this would work either.
If it's not available for ranged weapons, it would not be available for ammunition..
There are 5 Ghost Touch Arrows in Carrion Crown....
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While I've heard the argument that "because it's not on the ranged weapon table it can't be applied to a ranged weapon," I still don't understand/agree with that argument. In 3.5 at least, tables were secondary to the text of the actual ability/item. In this case, the text of each weapon special property notifies when that has restrictions to the type of weapon it can be applied to; ala disruption, brilliant energy, distance, etc. The text for ghost touch doesn't mention any restrictions on it, so I don't see why it can't be applied to a ranged weapon.
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I have an Inquisitor in PFS who likes to turn his adversaries into Pincushion with the arrows he shoots from his +1 Composite Longbow (with +2 str).
After squaring off with some incorporeal undead, I have decided my inquisitor is in need of a weapon with the “Ghost touch” quality.
How would I go about this? Do I need to purchase a new +1 Composite Longbow (+2 str bonus) with the Ghost touch ability? Or can I simply add the “Ghost Touch” quality to my existing bow? If possible how much would this improvement cost?
Thank you
In the new Pathfinder Society field guide, they added ghost salt weapon blanches, 200g for 10 arrows. Probably much better than enchanting your weapon with a very situational effect.
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While I've heard the argument that "because it's not on the ranged weapon table it can't be applied to a ranged weapon," I still don't understand/agree with that argument. In 3.5 at least, tables were secondary to the text of the actual ability/item. In this case, the text of each weapon special property notifies when that has restrictions to the type of weapon it can be applied to; ala disruption, brilliant energy, distance, etc. The text for ghost touch doesn't mention any restrictions on it, so I don't see why it can't be applied to a ranged weapon.
That isn’t true. In 3.5 the tables determined what special abilities could be put on what type (melee or ranged) of weapon.
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More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.Reference please (for the not allowed in PFS).
-Swiftbrook
Why do you need a reference? The fact that it doesn’t say you CAN, means that you can’t. That’s how PFS (and most OP’s) works.
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Why do you need a reference? The fact that it doesn’t say you CAN, means that you can’t. That’s how PFS (and most OP’s) works.More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.Reference please (for the not allowed in PFS).
-Swiftbrook
I'm not talking about Ghost Touch on a bow, but a +2 ring of Invisibility. The core rulebook specifically states that you can create this ring. The PFS guild states that all the core rule book is valid except a short list of feats and spells. So, creating a +2 ring of Invisibility is valid. A blanket statement that you can't create items outside those listed is not allowed was made. This is not the case as a +3 Ghost Touch cold iron bastard sword is not listed but is valid.
I need a specific reference as to why I can't create a +2 ring of Invisibility. Note that the +2 ring of Invisibility is the example given in the CRB.
-Swiftbrook
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Why do you need a reference? The fact that it doesn’t say you CAN, means that you can’t. That’s how PFS (and most OP’s) works.More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.Reference please (for the not allowed in PFS).
-Swiftbrook
I'm not talking about Ghost Touch on a bow, but a +2 ring of Invisibility. The core rulebook specifically states that you can create this ring. The PFS guild states that all the core rule book is valid except a short list of feats and spells. So, creating a +2 ring of Invisibility is valid. A blanket statement that you can't create items outside those listed is not allowed was made. This is not the case as a +3 Ghost Touch cold iron bastard sword is not listed but is valid.
I need a specific reference as to why I can't create a +2 ring of Invisibility. Note that the +2 ring of Invisibility is the example given in the CRB.
-Swiftbrook
Because a +2 Ring of Invisibility is a custom item. I’d wager that it gives this as an example of a custom created item, right?
Custom creation rules are not allowed in PFS.
If it is on a chronicle sheet, you are golden.
If it is one of the specific types of rings defined in the book, you are golden.
Taking two different abilities and combining them to create a custom ring (read custom as not specifically defined in the book as a +2 Ring of Protection & Invisibility) is not allowed in PFS.
It is clearly defined in the guide that you can’t create custom items.
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I need a specific reference as to why I can't create a +2 ring of Invisibility. Note that the +2 ring of Invisibility is the example given in the CRB.
-Swiftbrook
From the days of the Frost. To my knowledge, PFS has not changed its stance on this.
If you search, there is nothing that says you can actually do this. In fact, there is nothing that says I can make my items into intelligent items - but that doesn't mean its legal in PFS. In fact, the only intelligent item I know I can buy costs gp and PA, which leads me to believe all intelligent items would have a cost like this (which means you can't price your item out). If you think something isn't legal in PFS, you should probably err on the side of caution. Just sayin'.
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While I've heard the argument that "because it's not on the ranged weapon table it can't be applied to a ranged weapon," I still don't understand/agree with that argument. In 3.5 at least, tables were secondary to the text of the actual ability/item. In this case, the text of each weapon special property notifies when that has restrictions to the type of weapon it can be applied to; ala disruption, brilliant energy, distance, etc. The text for ghost touch doesn't mention any restrictions on it, so I don't see why it can't be applied to a ranged weapon.
I don't think that's right, because if you look at the restrictions on enhancements you've pointed out, they are very specific in terms of what they can be put on (well, all except Distance, but then again I think we all know what that specifically refers to). In fact, they are more specific than what either of the two charts allow, which is why they are specifically written into the block text.
As it stands, Defending and Ghost Touch cannot be applied to ranged weapons.
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As it stands, Defending and Ghost Touch cannot be applied to ranged weapons.
Let me be more succinct.... in the section of Weapons on page 467-468, nowhere does it say "only the special abilities in 15-10 can be applied to ranged weapons." The tables are simply there as ease and to use as a random item generation tool.
The special abilities have to be taken as they are written in the book. You can't make a bow brilliant energy because the description for brilliant energy says you can't do it. Distance can only be placed on ranged weapons, because the ability says so (which I think you missed, the first sentence reads: "This special ability can only be placed on a ranged weapon.") Keen can only be put on melee slashing or piercing weapons, Ki focus can only be on melee weapons, etc.
All the table says is that you won't roll for a magically generated ghost touch bow, however nothing in the magic section says that it doesn't exist and can't be created.
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As it stands, Defending and Ghost Touch cannot be applied to ranged weapons.Let me be more succinct.... in the section of Weapons on page 467-468, nowhere does it say "only the special abilities in 15-10 can be applied to ranged weapons." The tables are simply there as ease and to use as a random item generation tool.
The special abilities have to be taken as they are written in the book. You can't make a bow brilliant energy because the description for brilliant energy says you can't do it. Distance can only be placed on ranged weapons, because the ability says so (which I think you missed, the first sentence reads: "This special ability can only be placed on a ranged weapon.") Keen can only be put on melee slashing or piercing weapons, Ki focus can only be on melee weapons, etc.
All the table says is that you won't roll for a magically generated ghost touch bow, however nothing in the magic section says that it doesn't exist and can't be created.
That is incorrect.
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I don't think this would work either.
If it's not available for ranged weapons, it would not be available for ammunition.EDIT: And the rules and table spell out which qualities are passed on to ammunition. The rules say enhancement bonuses and alignment pass on. The table indicates which specific properties go to ammo (granted that is almost all of them on the table).
Emphasis mine.
What exactly qualifies as an enhancement bonus? Just the straight +1, +2, etc? What about elemental properties? Doesnt a +1 Flaming Longbow give each shot a D6 fire dmg as well as the regular arrow dmg?
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As it stands, Defending and Ghost Touch cannot be applied to ranged weapons.Let me be more succinct.... in the section of Weapons on page 467-468, nowhere does it say "only the special abilities in 15-10 can be applied to ranged weapons." The tables are simply there as ease and to use as a random item generation tool.
The special abilities have to be taken as they are written in the book. You can't make a bow brilliant energy because the description for brilliant energy says you can't do it. Distance can only be placed on ranged weapons, because the ability says so (which I think you missed, the first sentence reads: "This special ability can only be placed on a ranged weapon.") Keen can only be put on melee slashing or piercing weapons, Ki focus can only be on melee weapons, etc.
All the table says is that you won't roll for a magically generated ghost touch bow, however nothing in the magic section says that it doesn't exist and can't be created.
You missed where I said "well, all except Distance yadda yadda yadda."
Being there on tables only for random item generation makes no sense. There was nothing stopping it from being on both. If a ranged weapon could be ghost touch, then it should have definitely been on the ranged weapon table for random item generation. So should the ability Grayflame from the APG. But they are not.
The point of the table is to summarize what can be put on melee weapons and what can be put on ranged weapons. This is akin to feats table where they summarize different types of feats, aka these feats are considered combat feats, these are metamagic, etc.
The "nothing [...] says it doesn't exist and can't be created" is going down a path that PFS has consistently made a block against.
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You missed where I said "well, all except Distance yadda yadda yadda."
I thought you were saying distance didn't have any section mentioning ranged vs. melee, not the specificity. It is less specific than the table, but so is mighty cleaving, seeking, and vicious. Those sentences are there for the very reason to prevent melee seeking weapons or ranged might cleaving weapons, if the designers didn't want ranged ghost touch, than it should have a sentence saying that it can only be applied to melee weapons.
Being there on tables only for random item generation makes no sense. There was nothing stopping it from being on both. If a ranged weapon could be ghost touch, then it should have definitely been on the ranged weapon table for random item generation. So should the ability Grayflame from the APG. But they are not.
I see no problem with Grayflame working with a bow. It would be the exact same as a flaming, frost, or corrosive weapon. The divine damage is simply passed along like the others. In fact, the only other special abilities not on table 7-5 specifically say that they cannot be added to a ranged weapon (Furious, menacing, transformative). In their text they say that they can only be added to melee weapons.
The "nothing [...] says it doesn't exist and can't be created" is going down a path that PFS has consistently made a block against.
While I agree with this generally for PFS, this is more of a Pathfinder RPG question than a PFS question. To be honest the table / rules are grey on the area. The tables and the special weapon properties should line up perfectly, I.E. either Ghost Touch should be on the Table or there should be a line in the special ability saying that it can only be applied to melee weapons. Until an errata or official clarification, there's nothing in the rules (PFS creation rules either) that prevents a ghost touch bow, a spell storing bow, or a grayflame bow.
My point earlier has been that if there is a mismatch between a table and the text tied to the table... the text should trump the table.
More importantly for PFS, there is nothing that says it can be put onto ammunition. Which means that you are creating a weapon outside of those listed. Which is not allowed for PFS.Reference please (for the not allowed in PFS).
-Swiftbrook
Page 13 of the current version of the Guide in Step 5: Feats:
Neither the craft feats nor the item creation section
of the magic items chapter in the Pathfinder RPG Core
Rulebook are legal for play.
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I don't think this would work either.
If it's not available for ranged weapons, it would not be available for ammunition.EDIT: And the rules and table spell out which qualities are passed on to ammunition. The rules say enhancement bonuses and alignment pass on. The table indicates which specific properties go to ammo (granted that is almost all of them on the table).
Emphasis mine.
What exactly qualifies as an enhancement bonus? Just the straight +1, +2, etc? What about elemental properties? Doesnt a +1 Flaming Longbow give each shot a D6 fire dmg as well as the regular arrow dmg?
For my reference, only the numerical bonus applies.
Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon.
However, the table (15-10) also applies a footnote 2 to Flaming, which means that the Flaming property does pass on to ammunition.
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Hi Swiftbrook.
As well as the rule provided by Enevhar, I was referring to posts like
this one by Mark.
NECRO!
;)
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can any one give me a (why this would break the game/ couldn't work in a world of magic answer) cause when holy and all other forms of magic seems to stick to the arrows it is odd you can't swing on ghost touch. it doesn't even increase the damage just lets you deal damage
Its not matter of break the game, its a matter of letting people make things that the rules don't allow. However...
the idea that the rules don't allow ghost touch arrows is nuts to start with, and are specifically an item on the table in ultimate equipment.
Likewise, there's no discernible argument for not having the bow transfer the ability to its ammunition, or a ghost touch bow not being legal.
Enchantments that can only go on certain types of weapons have language to that effect, and ghost touch lacks that language.