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Wow, the caravan rules look like a lot of fun. Compact and easy to use, yet with enough options to keep it interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing how they are integrated into the path.
However, I am a still a person on the internet. Therefore, I feel the need to nitpick. Here we go:
*Why have bonuses for heroes? There is no choice involved (since you can do another job too), making it a freebie +4 to everything. Except for small groups, which will be penalized.
*Higher bonuses for very skilled characters doing jobs would have been cool. The bonus limit would have kept it from being overpowered, and make the PC (and high level ally) contributions more significant. Plus, I would finally get a use out of those 10 ranks in profession (cook)!
*Traders: Useless? By my calculations, a max Resolve caravan will only pull in 26.5gp / trader / day. Subtract the wagon space and consumption, and I don't see the point.
*Merchant Mastery: Extra useless? +5 means +5gp. Alternatively, that feat slot could get me extra wagons, speed, or +1d6(!) damage in caravan combat. Not a tough choice.
*Question, not nitpick: Will we see a return of these rules for the pirate-themed AP? Replace the wagons with ships and toss in some parrots and it seems ready to go.
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*Traders: Useless? By my calculations, a max Resolve caravan will only pull in 26.5gp / trader / day. Subtract the wagon space and consumption, and I don't see the point.
(I am using information from Player's Guide only, it could be wrong with full caravan rules from the GM's point of view)
Trade-focused caravan can get Morale 10, +8 circumstance bonus to Resolve, +4 morale bonus for Heroes, and +15 bonus to selling check for a total of +37 bonus. So average sale will give net gain of 37 gp (average roll of ten covers the cost of unit of trade goods, anything above is gain) per settlement-to-settlement trip. Not much when the caravan reaches those stats.
However, begining caravan can have Morale 4, +4 morale bonus for Heroes, +2 circumstance bonus for entertainers, and +5 bonus to trading checks for feat. Which means that average roll gives 15 gp per trader. It might not be much, unless early settlements are close to each other - but it can cover cost of supplies. Apparently it is not intended to bring real profit but rather reduce costs of travel.
Also there is no point in hiring traders - it should be done by characters that on the road perform other functions: drivers, guards, guides and scouts and would be sitting idle while visiting settlement.
*Merchant Mastery: Extra useless? +5 means +5gp. Alternatively, that feat slot could get me extra wagons, speed, or +1d6(!) damage in caravan combat. Not a tough choice.
Hard to judge without knowing how often happens and how difficulty caravan combat is.
Also, it grants +5 gp per trader so with five characters performing function of trader in the settlement its +25 gp per trip. As I mentioned above - free supplies for a few days.
I also just checked over the caravan rules and must agree that traders seem to bring in very little profit... given the monthly costs of the different NPC's who staff caravans and the needed provisions, getting so little money as Mort pointed out in the OP seems to really miss the point caravans normally would have: making a profit.
Now, we know that in the case of the particular caravan in Jade Regent the goal is to get Ameiko to Minkai. But the caravan at least shouldn't be operating at a loss, right? Especially since many of the settlements even in Varisia are a bit more apart than the 32 miles the caravan can travel per day. I can only imagine that this gets even more pronounced when we get into the frozen north of the Lands of the Linnorm Kings.
Another problem I see is with the daily consumption. With a group of five PC's, the caravan consumes daily 11 rations, that is 1.1 units of cargo per day. Consumption can be lowered to 6 rations per day with a cook and a scout ( i.e. 0.6 units of cargo per day ), but outside of Varisia, I fear the caravan will have to add several cargo wagons only laden with food to get from one settlement to to the next. As Jason reminded us in another thread, the journey will traverse several thousands of miles.
How exactly is the caravan supposed to pay for all of this? I got the feeling that the rules for this assume that the PC's will be subsidizing the caravan substantially, because if there is a method for the caravan to make a big enough profit to buy provisions, pay wages and get enhancements for by itself, then I must have missed that. The merchants alone don't seem to be able to even keep nearly up.
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Another problem I see is with the daily consumption. With a group of five PC's, the caravan consumes daily 11 rations, that is 1.1 units of cargo per day. Consumption can be lowered to 6 rations per day with a cook and a scout ( i.e. 0.6 units of cargo per day ), but outside of Varisia, I fear the caravan will have to add several cargo wagons only laden with food to get from one settlement to to the next.
Goodberry can also reduce this.
my main thought with traders is that they're supposed to offset the upkeep costs. They don't seem to make town-to-town trading worth while though.
One consideration is making all gold values in the trade system x10.
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How exactly is the caravan supposed to pay for all of this? I got the feeling that the rules for this assume that the PC's will be subsidizing the caravan substantially, because if there is a method for the caravan to make a big enough profit to buy provisions, pay wages and get enhancements for by itself, then I must have missed that. The merchants alone don't seem to be able to even keep nearly up.
Hehe, makes me think of my days playing Oregon Trail way back in the days... time to go hunting! Many a poor electronic buffalo, deer, and rabbits fell to my digital rifle. Too bad I could only haul only so much meat at a time from each hunt.
What's lacking here is a more advanced system for supply and demand, getting specific cargoes to places where they're valued and making a profit ginormous enough to justify the trip.
As it stands, this isn't much more than a bunch of traveling tinker's wagons.
What's lacking here is a more advanced system for supply and demand, getting specific cargoes to places where they're valued and making a profit ginormous enough to justify the trip.
As it stands, this isn't much more than a bunch of traveling tinker's wagons.
Well, yes, that's what it is supposed to be. These rules represent a Varisian Wanderers style of Caravan.. traveling "gypsy" clans, not a dedicated mercantile one.
The trade is largely incidental (or at least that's the impression I get), and carrying lots of supplies is part of the process. The possession of extra-dimensional storage will be a large factor later in the AP, I expect.
Also, note that you can have up to 3 Scouts at one time, to reduce consumption by up to 6 if they all spend time hunting.
A more business-oriented caravan would probably need to be expressed in Kingmaker-style BPs. Pack animals, such as mules or camels, would replace or supplement some of the wagons, and other changes would likely be needed.
Probably, the Skull & Shackles AP will have something similar for the booty taken aboard ship, so maybe there will be some conversion factors to be found there.
Edit: Clarified opinion from fact
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Honestly, use an idea from one of my GMs. The campaign started sandbox, but due to "poor returns" (us not realizing some of the "junk" we'd collected was worth more to specialists than on the general market), we decided to start our own trade caravan.
The "goods" system seems to be for generic trade goods. Thread, colored ribbons, foodstuffs and live chickens, pots and pans - the sort of stuff that every villager will need, but there isn't a DEMAND for.
Your profit comes from specific planned stops. Wood to the lumber mill, lumber to the carpenters, furniture to the growing settlement, et cetera. In our case, we were taking pearls from our costal city all the way through six months of wilderness adventures to a remote desert kingdom, and bringing back silks and spices. This is how you make profit from the trip across Linorm and the Crown of the World, by bringing RARE Varisian goods to the markets of Minkai.
Along the way, we discovered several "local treasures" (jars of aloe lotion and bolts of spider silk come to mind). And there were some products we got just knowing they were dead weight until we got to a capitol. We were running out of space, and I think we at one point declined to pick up bandit weapons and armor because they "weren't worth their weight". Was it adventuring? Not at all? Did we have fun doing it? Absolutely. But if you NEED adventure, consider letting the PCs find trade items during their adventuring.
But on the subject of traders: I have an EVIL idea, and one that should appeal to your players. LET TRADERS GAIN XP from being with the caravan, awarded as goods are traded. Make it clear to players from the outset that traders INITIALLY aren't worth a lot, and show them a SAMPLE progression of feats that make them more profitable. You'd be amazed at the ideas players will come up with to customize "their" trader's profits. At the end of the AP, having a series of master merchants, each able to lead their own caravan, players will have a sense of accomplishment, rather than fury at having to "tolerate" a bunch of useless mouths and slowed travel.
And if you want to run one-shots, let the PCs hear rumors of a place just a day off their planned route. Do they swerve the caravan a day off course to explore some ruins? How do they secure the caravan while they're away? Guards and guard animals aren't cheap, and they increase consumption. (OTOH, the joy our group had when our first guard cleared second level was worth the extra pay. It was cheaper under that GM to hire low levels and raise them than to just hire experienced people out of the gate, another idea.)
But generally speaking, make the caravan something the PCs GROW rather than something they just have, and it may spark your player's interest. Make clear to them that by default, the caravan barely pays for itself, BUT with effort, it can produce profits. If only some of your players are interested in this, either blue book it or have separate sessions just for the "caravan players".
The caravan rules, like the kingdom and mass combat rules, are good starting points for a system that with just a little more effort makes a pleasant game in its own right. Think of it like the "dramatic contests" from SpyCraft - it's not required, but if your players show interest, it's a good framework for the action to take place in, and most players appreciate that there are rules for what they want to attempt.
Just be careful - if your group is considering selling Ameiko and Shelelu into slavery for the additional profits, then you've taken the AP off the rails. Not a problem for most groups, but thought I'd mention it before ending the post.