I'm building a level 11 paladin / magus to replace a dead character. Currently a magus 7 / paladin 4 for access to 3rd level spells.
I'm thinking bastard sword focused.
Human, so 7 feats plus the magus bonus feat.
Currently looking at the concentration tree (combat casting, uncanny concentration, warrior priest) with some crafting feats for better items at wealth by level and weapon focus.
Can anyone suggest an alternate build or a few things to help fill out the build?
That's almost as MAD as it gets!
it really depends on your fighting strategy here. Are you going bastard sword for 2 handed damage? If so, no spell combat. You do realise that you're either sticking with light armor or suffering spell failure chances for your magus spells? and I'm assuming your keeping your int down to about 14 or less so that's going to input your concentration checks.
Magus 7 is medium armor already.
No Bastard, u r feat starved enough as it is.
What is this rolling of which you speak? =P
Standard 20 point buy.
18 (15 base, human bonus to 17, level 4 to 18)
12
14
14 (13 base, level 8 up to 14)
8
14
Yeah, about as MAD as it gets.
Magus 7 is medium armor already.
No Bastard, u r feat starved enough as it is.
But am I? What should they go into? That's my whole problem, I can't seem to figure out what are good feats.
How do you envision him fighting? Other than strangely.
How do you envision him fighting? Other than strangely.
Hahahahaha.
How do you envision him fighting? Other than strangely.
Under ideal circumstances, with the weapon modified by the arcane pool, using smite evil and spell combat.
Well, Paladin basically makes you MAD, as well as gets you +2 to hit and +4 damage twice per day.
Just going 11 Magus would give you access to Weapon Specialization, which is +2 damage *all* the time, not just twice per day. You'd also pick up a bonus feat, fourth level spells, etc.
So...what about the Paladin specifically do you desire? Flavor is generally irrelevant (since you can flavor anything as anything else, really).
Is it the level 1 spells they get? I'm honestly not sure how effective 1st level spells with a caster level of 1 are going to be at level 11.
The minor healing they can do? 2d6 (average of 7 hp!) per action is not that great at level 11.
I guess I just don't see why you want the levels in Paladin. If you could explain that, we could help you better :)
It's a pretty simple concept: smite and spell combat at the same time.
I'm not worried about eking out every last possible point of statistical combat bonus. I don't want to be gimped in combat, but our party pretty handily takes care of everything the come up against. So not being absolutely optimized is not a problem.
Yeah, I know that going purely one class or the other would give me better numbers, but that's not what I'm after.
I want to stab evil things with divine fire, and then slap them in the face with arcane fire.
So...with that in mind...
Any suggestions on tweaks and feats that can help do that? :D
It's a pretty simple concept: smite and spell combat at the same time.
I'm not worried about eking out every last possible point of statistical combat bonus. I don't want to be gimped in combat, but our party pretty handily takes care of everything the come up against. So not being absolutely optimized is not a problem.
Yeah, I know that going purely one class or the other would give me better numbers, but that's not what I'm after.
I want to stab evil things with divine fire, and then slap them in the face with arcane fire.
So...with that in mind...
Any suggestions on tweaks and feats that can help do that? :D
Sounds like the Grayflame enchantment is up your alley. It's from the APG, look it up. Basically, use up a channel energy, and your weapon is sheathed in holy fire.
Other than that, I can't think of anything that would make this work better. If you want to use Smite Evil specifically, then there's a problem, since there's no Extra Smite feat. Maybe using Smite Evil and Greyflame at the same time would work well?
If you want to just focus on using divine energy to hurt your enemies, even just a 1 level dip into Cleric would let you pick up some domain abilities, and channel energy. Get a phylactery of positive energy, and you can use greyflame for 3 rounds, which is pretty good.
You could turn this upside down, and do a Magus 3 (or 4) and the rest paladin. I think this is the best route, since you can pick up Arcana and Arcane Pool points with feats :) This would give you a consistently good Smite Evil that you can use more often, and you can still get arcana, spellcombat, and spellstrike. Pretty nifty, actually.
Other than that, I can't think of anything that would make this work better. If you want to use Smite Evil specifically, then there's a problem, since there's no Extra Smite feat.
Well, actually there is a way: Take the oathbound paladin archetype with the oath of vengeance. With that you can - starting exactly at level 4 ;-) - "channel wrath", i.e. expend two uses of lay on hands for one extra smite evil. Then you could take the silver smite bracelet to count as a paladin 4 levels higher for the purpose of your smite evil, and merrily take the extra lay on hands feat to get basically one extra smite evil :-)
Well, actually there is a way: Take the oathbound paladin archetype with the oath of vengeance. With that you can - starting exactly at level 4 ;-) - "channel wrath", i.e. expend two uses of lay on hands for one extra smite evil. Then you could take the silver smite bracelet to count as a paladin 4 levels higher for the purpose of your smite evil, and merrily take the extra lay on hands feat to get basically one extra smite evil :-)
Other than that, I can't think of anything that would make this work better. If you want to use Smite Evil specifically, then there's a problem, since there's no Extra Smite feat.
Ah, didn't know about that. So with that, you'll have about 5 smite evils per day, which is good. One more use for every time you take Extra Lay On Hands.
What is this rolling of which you speak? =P
Standard 20 point buy.
18 (15 base, human bonus to 17, level 4 to 18)
12
14
14 (13 base, level 8 up to 14)
8
14Yeah, about as MAD as it gets.
How much money do you have? Are crafted items priced fully or half? And which route do you want to continue on later - paladin, magus, or alternating?
Using those stats and your general idea of a build I would use one of those combinations:
1) magus 7 / paladin (oathbound - vengeance) 4
2) magus 7 / paladin (oathbound - vengeance & warrior of the holy light) 4
3) magus (hexcrafter) 7 / paladin (oathbound - vengeance) 4
4) magus (hexcrafter) 7 / paladin (oathbound - vengeance & warrior of the holy light) 4
#1 is the easiest in terms of class features. You have arcane and divine spells, can spellstrike and smite evil and more. You can use many divine and arcane wands without any problem.
#2 is a variant which removes the spells from the paladin features but makes you into a kind of group buffer, similar to inspire courage. Might be nice for your party.
#3 does away with spell recall but opens up the hexes of the witch to you which I find to be quite useful. #4 basically is a further extension of that...
Since I kind of like #3 the most, here is a sample build for it:
1) Take the evil eye hex at level 4. Use it to debuff enemies, great synergy due to it running based of intelligence.
2) Take wand mastery and arcane accuracy or wand wielder as your magus arcana.
3) Take craft wand as your item creation feat. There are some great 1st level paladin spells such as lesser restoration or cure light wounds, and magus spells such as shield also like to be cast often. Other spells such as ray of enfeeblement become pretty nasty with your own DC. Alternatively, scribe scrolls or craft wondrous items should provide useful.
4) Important items for you are stat boosters such as headband of vast intellect and silver smite bracelet. If your funds allow, get as high an enhancement bonus on your weapon as possible. Alternatively, take the holy or ghost touch abilities - you really want to hit that baddy bad :-) Recommended: +1 keen ghost touch XXX (see below).
5) If you want to go with bastard sword, you are pretty much set on the exotic weapon prof. feat. I would prefer the falcata in that case, though. Slightly less damage, but higher crit multiplier. Makes smite evil really juicy.
6) Feats: 1. extra arcane pool OR eschew materials (depends on how your DM handles that) 1h. combat casting 3. exotic weapon proficiency: falcata 5. power attack 7. extra hex: water lung OR feral speech OR cackle 9. improved intitiative 11. critical focus
This is probably not the most powerful build, but it gives you lots of options (survive under water, buff, debuff, hit hard, spells, spell-like, super-natural, ...). A lot depends on how much money you're allowed. For example, using a keen enhancement is better than burning a feat if you can spare the cash.
I am not very familiar with the magus class, so there is probably much room for improvement. :-)
Wow!
There's lots of great stuff in that, Sangalor. Thank you!
I'll definitely be taking some, if not most or all, of this advice.
Wow!
There's lots of great stuff in that, Sangalor. Thank you!
I'll definitely be taking some, if not most or all, of this advice.
His advice is good! But I'm curious why you wish to pump up the Magus side over the Paladin side.
Also, half-elf will let you trade out their skill focus for exotic weapon proficiency, netting you either a falcata (probably better overall) or a bastard sword (looks more badass).
His advice is good! But I'm curious why you wish to pump up the Magus side over the Paladin side.Also, half-elf will let you trade out their skill focus for exotic weapon proficiency, netting you either a falcata (probably better overall) or a bastard sword (looks more badass).
I'm not really tied to pumping up the magus side. Mostly, I looked at the classes and said, "Which gets what at which level?" So I shot for level three spells. I quite enjoy playing arcane casters, and the level three spells are where the fun really starts. That's really the main reason.
And good point about half-elves. I may do that.
I'll probably rebuild it more paladin focused later and see what I can get out of that.
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Oath Bound Vengeance Paladin is definately the way to go. Hell, who needs anything else?
Lvl 11 Human Paladin
Feat: Power Attack
Feat: Weapon Focus Falchion
Feat at 3,5,7: Extra LOH!!
Feat at 9: Improved Critical Falchion
Feat at 11: Extra LoH!
Assuming a CHa of 20 by then that gives 10 LoH plus 8 more from Feats....that's 18 LoH or 9 Smites per day to go with the 4 you already get.
Mmmm 13 Smites a day...
Anyone for Cheese?
More seriously though, I like the Magus/Pally idea you have but I would definately be inclined to try heavy Pally lvl with lighter Magus lvls.
Oath Bound Vengeance Paladin is definately the way to go. Hell, who needs anything else?
Lvl 11 Human Paladin
Feat: Power Attack
Feat: Weapon Focus Falchion
Feat at 3,5,7: Extra LOH!!
Feat at 9: Improved Critical Falchion
Feat at 11: Extra LoH!Assuming a CHa of 20 by then that gives 10 LoH plus 8 more from Feats....that's 18 LoH or 9 Smites per day to go with the 4 you already get.
Mmmm 13 Smites a day...
Anyone for Cheese?
More seriously though, I like the Magus/Pally idea you have but I would definately be inclined to try heavy Pally lvl with lighter Magus lvls.
I'll second the "light on magus" again.
Once you get one magus arcana you can grab Pool Strike, which sounds like what you want.
Is other third party stuff allowed?
Straight paladin or light on magus also seems like a good idea to me, though the magus 7 / paladin 4 combo above is also quite nice.
But is spellstrike really an absolute must-have for you? Blending divine and arcane can also be achieved differently. For example:
1) Arcane duelist / Paladin: Uses same stat (charisma), strong against spellcasters, nice bonus feats. Using the conductive weapon enchantment you could channel lay on hands through it to smack undead with divine fire. Add the arcane duelist bladethirst and weapon bond abilities to it, and you are set to go.
2) Instead of paladin, consider the inquisitor. Its bane and judgement abilities are quite strong and will benefit your will save greatly since it uses wisdom instead of charisma.
3) Somewhat wild, but how about Paladin 4 / Sorcerer (Draconic) 1 / Dragon Disciple 4 / Paladin 5-6? You cast 2nd level arcane spells, get strength +4, breath weapon, claws, resist energy 5, natural armor +3 - and you run everything off charisma. Add the conductive weapon property and you are good to go.
4) Instead of the previously mentioned feats for the magus 7/paladin 4 combo you could go this way: 1. additional traits: magical lineage (shocking grasp), reactionary 1h. combat casting 3. power attack 5. intensified spell 7. elemental spell (acid) OR EWP (falcata) OR extra hex OR eldritch heritage OR extra lay on hands 9. critical focus 11. theurgy -- You can - without extra slot cost - memorize an intensified or acidified shocking grasp, dealing up to your CL X 1d6 extra damage, meaning you could go to weapon damage + smite evil + 7d6 damage for a mere 1st level spell investment. By using theurgy and sacrificing one of your paladin 1st level spells you can make half that spell damage holy, increasing the holy/arcane synergy theme even more. I would suggest using a keen scimitar here and not burning an extra feat - the crit range is good and you will crit a lot. Remember to purchase 1st level pearls of power, you can use them for your paladin and your magus spell slots. They are cheap, so you can basically recharge after each battle this way...
5) Consider moving some more points into dexterity, that would open up the combat reflexes/weapon finesse route, giving you higher AC and more.
How much equipment do you get btw?
If you want to use spellstrike! Spellcombat with paladin spells, you'll need to have six levels of magus to pick up broad study.
Very nice. I'm quite liking the Warrior of Holy Light and Oath of Vengence combination.
To answer previous questions:
Standard wealth by level. So, for 11, 82,000.
No third party items. Just Pathfinder.
Not really interested in spellstrike. Spell combat, yes. Spellstrike, not so much. Though maybe, if circumstances permit.
Current statblock is under the spoiler.
I went magus five for two reasons: 1, it allows me access to craft magic arms and armor. 2, it allows me to modify my weapon with damage enhancements through the arcane pool.
The craft feats are to allow me to have significantly better gear than I would otherwise at this level. (DM is fine with us crafting our own starting gear).
Also, this statblock is with smite, smite double damage, and arcane accuracy invoked. There would, ideally, also be improved weapon enhancements and enchantments from the arcane pool.
UNNAMED HERO CR 10
Male Human (Shoanti) Magus 5 Paladin (Oath of Vengeance, Warrior of the Holy Light) 6
LG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +9
Aura Power of Light (30', +1)
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 30, touch 13, flat-footed 29. . (+12 armor, +5 shield, +1 Dex, +2 deflection)
hp 99 (6d10+5d8+33)
Fort +14, Ref +6, Will +9
Immune fear, disease
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Holy, Keen Falchion +25/+20 (2d4+30/15-20/x2) and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +22/+17 (1d3+26/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +22/+17 (1d3+26/20/x2)
Special Attacks Arcane Accuracy +5, Smite Evil (4/day), Spellstrike
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will)
Magus Spells Known (CL 5, 22 melee touch, 17 ranged touch):
2 (3/day) Flaming Sphere (DC 17), Fire Breath (DC 17), Frigid Touch
1 (6/day) Magic Missile, Color Spray (DC 16), Burning Hands (DC 16), Burning Hands (DC 16), Enlarge Person (DC 16), Frostbite
0 (at will) Ray of Frost, Acid Splash, Light, Detect Magic
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 18/22, Dex 12, Con 12/16, Int 16/20, Wis 7, Cha 10/14
Base Atk +9; CMB +20; CMD 28
Feats Combat Casting, Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Critical Focus, Extra Lay on Hands, Extra Lay on Hands, Uncanny Concentration, Weapon Focus: Falchion
Traits Heirloom Weapon: Scimitar, +1 Holy, Keen Falchion, Killer
Skills Acrobatics -5, Climb +3, Diplomacy +16, Escape Artist -6, Fly -2, Handle Animal +16, Heal +5, Intimidate +10, Perception +9, Ride +8, Sense Motive +12, Spellcraft +17, Stealth -6, Swim +3, Use Magic Device +16
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Orc, Shoanti, Sylvan
SQ Arcane Pool (+2) (7/day) (Su), Aura of Courage (10' radius) (Su), Aura of Good (Ex), Channel Wrath (Su), Divine Grace (Su), Divine Weapon +1 (6 minutes) (1/day) (Sp), Lay on Hands (3d6) (10/day) (Su), Mercy: Sickened (Su), Mercy: Staggered (Su), Silver Smite Bracelet, Spell Combat (Ex), Spell Recall (Su)
Combat Gear +1 Holy, Keen Falchion, +3 Animated Snarlshield, Steel, +3 Full Plate; Other Gear Belt of Physical Might, STR & CON +4, Headband of Mental Prowess, INT & CHA +4: Use Magic Device, Perception, Silver Smite Bracelet
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Arcane Accuracy +5 (Su) 1 Arcane Pool: +5 to attack rolls until the end of your turn.
Arcane Pool (+2) (7/day) (Su) At 1st level, the magus gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapon. This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. The poo
Aura of Courage (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within 10 feet save at +4 vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Channel Wrath (Su) When an oathbound paladin reach 4th level, she can spend two uses of her lay on hands ability to gain an extra use of smite evil that day.
This ability has no effect for a paladin who does not have the smite evil ability. This ability replaces
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use Detect Evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Grace (Su) You gain your Charisma Bonus as a bonus to all saving throws.
Divine Weapon +1 (6 minutes) (1/day) (Sp) You can enhance your weapon for 1 minute per level one or more times per day.
Immune to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Killer Add weapon's critical modifier to its critical bonus damage.
Lay on Hands (3d6) (10/day) (Su) You can heal 3d6 damage, 10/day
Mercy: Sickened (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the sickened condition.
Mercy: Staggered (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the staggered condition. This does not help if the target is at 0 HP.
Power of Light (30', +1) (Su) At 4th level, a warrior of the holy light learns to use the power of her faith to bolster her defenses and aid her allies. This class feature replaces the paladin’s spells class feature. A warrior of the holy light does not gain any spells or spellca
Silver Smite Bracelet This heavy silver bracelet is etched with icons of purity, fidelity, chastity, and honor, and glows with a soft white light whenever its owner prays. The wearer of this bracelet treats her paladin level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of her smite evil class feature.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, align weapon, creator must be a paladin; Cost 8,000 gp
Smite Evil (4/day) (Su) +2 to hit, +10 to damage, +2 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spell Recall (Su) Spend your Arcane Pool to recall spells you have already cast.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Uncanny Concentration Don't make concentration checks for violent movement, gain a +2 bonus on all other concentration checks
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Very nice. I'm quite liking the Warrior of Holy Light and Oath of Vengence combination.
To answer previous questions:
Standard wealth by level. So, for 11, 82,000.
No third party items. Just Pathfinder.
Not really interested in spellstrike. Spell combat, yes. Spellstrike, not so much. Though maybe, if circumstances permit.
Remember that you'll need to be a 6th level magus at least to use Spellcombat / strike with Paladin spells!
Remember that you'll need to be a 6th level magus at least to use Spellcombat / strike with Paladin spells!
No paladin spells to use! One of the two archetypes replaces them.
The big problem i see with this build is you have to have a good score in basically every stat. I would recommend taking the human variant where instead of a feat at first level you get +2 to an additional ability score. put them into cha and int. and then if your using epic fantasy (which is the only way i see this working) buy a 14str-14con-14cha-16int-10dex-10wis. for feats take extra arcane pool, warrior priest, and Thrugey. Then i would also take radiant charge. Weapon focus is always good as well.