*Must be able to attack consistently for 8 rounds.
To take this a step further, I think the DPR should be calculated for each of the 8 rounds then divided by 8 to give your average DPR over those 8 rounds. Why would you do this? So you can take into account those DPR builds that use bleed damage as their primary concept for dealing damage.
*Must be able to attack consistently for 8 rounds.
8 rounds? That's a long ass fight given the rocket launcher tag nature of combat. If your still fighting past the 5th round, in most cases, I think your in deep s@*@.
8 rounds? That's a long ass fight given the rocket launcher tag nature of combat. If your still fighting past the 5th round, in most cases, I think your in deep s#~@.
*Must be able to attack consistently for 8 rounds.
Well we could do the calculations for 5 rounds but that's really up to sphar. 5 or 8 rounds, either is ok with me as long as we have consistency across all the build ideas.
Well we could do the calculations for 5 rounds but that's really up to sphar. 5 or 8 rounds, either is ok with me as long as we have consistency across all the build ideas.
Ultimately, the shorter amount of time is going to better represent what a real character does at the table. Also, the DPR of bleeding effects get artificially inflated in unreasonably long time tables.
I guess it really doesn't matter either way since this is just a friendly challenge, but I thought I'd point that out as something to consider.
I am assuming the 8 rounds is to prevent nova-ing 120dpr at level 2 sounds impressive until they tell you they are a staggered commoner for the rest of the day.
I want to see what some good DPR builds are by level.
Ok, here we go. 2 weapon kukri wielding Ranger who uses Power attack (assuming FE) and uses Bleeding Critical at 11th and 12th level to do extra damage.
Total DPRlvl 1 10.26
lvl 2 14.20
lvl 3 15.70
lvl 4 18.34
lvl 5 28.18
lvl 6 49.79
lvl 7 55.83
lvl 8 58.31
lvl 9 66.22
lvl 10 93.53
lvl 11 155.54
lvl 12 158.64
60.38 Average over 12 levels
The link for all the details, go here:
To take this a step further, I think the DPR should be calculated for each of the 8 rounds then divided by 8 to give your average DPR over those 8 rounds. Why would you do this? So you can take into account those DPR builds that use bleed damage as their primary concept for dealing damage.*Must be able to attack consistently for 8 rounds.
Most enemies will be staying alive one or two rounds by the time you get a chance to full attack. 8-round calculations make bleed appear a lot better than it actually is, as you will NEVER be full attacking for 8 continuous rounds.
At most I'd calculate it out for two rounds of full attacking against the same target if you want semi-accurate bleed DPR. And honestly, most enemies will probably be dead after the second full attack (i.e. before the second turn of bleed damage gets dealt).
Most enemies will be staying alive one or two rounds by the time you get a chance to full attack. 8-round calculations make bleed appear a lot better than it actually is, as you will NEVER be full attacking for 8 continuous rounds.
At most I'd calculate it out for two rounds of full attacking against the same target if you want semi-accurate bleed DPR. And honestly, most enemies will probably be dead after the second full attack (i.e. before the second turn of bleed damage gets dealt).
I based my bleed damage calculations at 5 rounds, not 8 rounds for the ranger build.
As an aside, the massive difference in damage from 10th to 11th levels (about 60% increase) confirms my belief that the original DPR Olympics are flawed in setting the level for builds at 10th.
I based my bleed damage calculations at 5 rounds, not 8 rounds for the ranger build.
As an aside, the massive difference in damage from 10th to 11th levels (about 60% increase) confirms my belief that the original DPR Olympics are flawed in setting the level for builds at 10th.
Picking any level will skew the results toward certain classes. I do like the averaging over levels 1-12, I think that shows more then anything else.
As an aside, the massive difference in damage from 10th to 11th levels (about 60% increase) confirms my belief that the original DPR Olympics are flawed in setting the level for builds at 10th.
That's because there's a whole confluence of factors going into that 10th to 11th jump that really benefit full BAB characters.
Full BAB characters get and extra attack, and +1 to hit, on top of what would most likely be a new class feature, and 20k extra gold to spend on magical trinkets, and don't forget the feats. That extra attack and chance to heat are REALLY good.
While all other classes get extra class features and feats, any non full BAB class will not get a new iterative attack, thus losing out on massive damage potentials compared to their full BAB buddies.
Just some food for thought.
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I'm really bad at making combat builds, but someone with more skill than I might do some thing with a paladin, mounted on something fairly fast (half-celestial unicorn with horseshoes of speed or the like), casting saddle surge and doing ride-by spirited charges with a lance...something on the order of +40-60 per attack, even at low levels.
Just going to say that averaging the DPR over 12 levels isn't a good way to do it statistically. The DPR at the higher levels will swamp out the DPR for the lower levels. You could make a build that complerely sucks from level 1-5, but then performs well from 6-12, and the overall average will still be pretty good.
It would be better to figure up a baseline build, then compare everything to that using percentages. I would use a two hand fighter for the baseline.
Just going to say that averaging the DPR over 12 levels isn't a good way to do it statistically. The DPR at the higher levels will swamp out the DPR for the lower levels. You could make a build that complerely sucks from level 1-5, but then performs well from 6-12, and the overall average will still be pretty good.
It would be better to figure up a baseline build, then compare everything to that using percentages. I would use a two hand fighter for the baseline.
You could try dividing the DPR by the level. So if you do 5 DPR at level 1, 8 at level 2, and 24 at level three, currently that would average to 12.33, but if you divide by the level before averaging, it becomes the average of (5+4+8), which is 5.67. So this character would have an average DPR of (5.67 * current level).
by have a spell already cast, does an alchemist mutagen being active (as it has a 10 min duration) work?
how bout haste?
also is BAB progression Fractional or Per what is says on the level, makes a difference for multi-classing Medium BAB classes.
Just going to say that averaging the DPR over 12 levels isn't a good way to do it statistically. The DPR at the higher levels will swamp out the DPR for the lower levels. You could make a build that complerely sucks from level 1-5, but then performs well from 6-12, and the overall average will still be pretty good.
It would be better to figure up a baseline build, then compare everything to that using percentages. I would use a two hand fighter for the baseline.
Well higher average shows one of two things.
Either the build puts out decent damage every level.
or you have to work a few levels for it to really come into its own and that's good too.
The builds are posted with damage at each level so you can figure out which yourself.
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@DeathSpot:Sounds like a cool build,I'll check it out.
@Charender:Alright,I'll try it out.Though,there are going to be some builds that only span a few levels...
@Waiph:Yes,an alchemist mutagen works.All class features that last 5 rounds or more work.Haste works if it lasts for at least 5 rounds.And what do you mean by BAB being fractional or per what it says...?
Alright,I would like to make some new proposals:I would like to create either an entirely new Nova DPR thread or add it to this thread.What do you guys think?
Also,I have a few builds that would be nice to see,props to whoever does the best!Here they are:
*A bowladin
*A 2H Fighter
*A TWF Fighter
*A rogue/ninja that does DPR nearing a fighter(this might be hard)
*A Dervish Dancing Magus
*A plain old archer ranger.
Half orc rogue (falchion, 20 str, killer trait)
lvl 1 - 14.5 with sneak attack, 11.3 withoutI call this my Bacon bites back build. I'll stat up some more levels when I get the chance tonight
EDIT: AHHH slight error in my initial calc. Levels 1 and 2 look like this
Lvl1 - with sneak 13.6, without 10.6
Lvl2 - with sneak 15.4, without 12.0
if you take 2 levels in a 3/4 BAB class, your bab is 1.
If you take a level in Monk and Rogue, your BAB using a fractional system is going to be 1, cause they're both 3/4 BAB classes
If it isn't fractional, then you get a bab of 0 at level 2.
Working on a progression and using Fractional progression or not changes the DPR by quite a bit, (what a difference 1 point of BAB makes)
and is it 1 spell active on you, cause that changes DPR too, like being able to have enlarge and mutagen active. I can work out lists with both, on and off, like i sort of did with the different ways of tracking BAB
You could try dividing the DPR by the level. So if you do 5 DPR at level 1, 8 at level 2, and 24 at level three, currently that would average to 12.33, but if you divide by the level before averaging, it becomes the average of (5+4+8), which is 5.67. So this character would have an average DPR of (5.67 * current level).Just going to say that averaging the DPR over 12 levels isn't a good way to do it statistically. The DPR at the higher levels will swamp out the DPR for the lower levels. You could make a build that complerely sucks from level 1-5, but then performs well from 6-12, and the overall average will still be pretty good.
It would be better to figure up a baseline build, then compare everything to that using percentages. I would use a two hand fighter for the baseline.
Yeah, you can do that, but damage increases exponentially, so eventually, the damage/level at the upper end is going to win out.
Just going to say that averaging the DPR over 12 levels isn't a good way to do it statistically. The DPR at the higher levels will swamp out the DPR for the lower levels. You could make a build that complerely sucks from level 1-5, but then performs well from 6-12, and the overall average will still be pretty good.
It would be better to figure up a baseline build, then compare everything to that using percentages. I would use a two hand fighter for the baseline.
Well higher average shows one of two things.
Either the build puts out decent damage every level.
or you have to work a few levels for it to really come into its own and that's good too.
The builds are posted with damage at each level so you can figure out which yourself.
Yes, I am just pointing out that the average is misleading. A build that puts out 30 more damage at level 11 and 12 is going to identical to a build that beats it by 5 DPR at every other level.
Actually, probably the best benchmark would be to use the average HP of a creature of equal CR. At level on,e the average creature has 8 HP, so the difference between 7 and 9 DPR is the difference between one-shotting something or not. At level 10, the average HP is more like 80.