Sniper Rogue Build (Advice please)


Advice


Sorry for the length of the post, looking for advice on a build. I did search the message board but couldn't find what I was looking for.

Start 1st level as a human. The reasoning is the extra feat, all the human stuff, +2 on any stat and every 6 levels as a rogue you gain an extra talent. The reason you will start as a fighter is the access to the extra 2 feats, the weapons and armor. Thieves are limited to simple weapons.
1st level – Fighter: 3 Feats: Point Blank Shot, Dodge and Mobility.
2nd level – Rogue: Sniper Archetype: Accuracy - At 1st level, a sniper halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow. This replaces trap finding.
3rd level – Rogue: Feat: Precise Shot and Talent: Minor Magic (light)
4th level – Rogue: Sniper Archetype: Deadly Range: At 3rd level, a sniper increases the range at which she can apply her sneak attack damage by 10 feet. This range increases by 10 feet for every 3 levels after 3rd. This replaces trap sense.
5th level – Fighter: 2 Feats: Shot on the Run and Deadly Aim.
6th level – Rogue: Talent: Major Magic (Gravity Bow).
7th level – Rogue: Feat: Focused Shot.
8th level – Rogue: 2 Talents: Combat Trick – Vital Strike and Snap Shot.
9th level – Rogue: Feat: Rapid Shot or Many Shot.
10th level – Rogue: Talent: Stealthy Sniper.
11th level – Rogue: Rapid Shot or Many Shot.
12th level – Rogue: Talent: Bleeding Attack.
13th level – Rogue: Feat: Improved Initiative.
14th level – Rogue: Talent: Hunter’s Surprise.
15th level – Rogue: Feat: Improved Vital Strike.
16th level – Rogue: Talent: Fast Stealth.
17th level – Rogue: Feat: Improved Precise Shot.
18th level – Rogue: Talent: Powerful Attack.
19th level – Rogue: Feat: Far Shot.
20th level – Rogue: 2 Talents: Deadly Sneak and Another Day.


The biggest problem you're going to have with a sniper rogue is getting consistent sneak attack from range. If you just plan on diving in and out of the shadows and making a single shot, you won't do competitive damage. Vital Strike isn't really worth it, because it's not the weapon dice that matter, it's the sneak attack and static modifiers.

The best way I've found to reliably get sneak attack involves working with your party fighter. Get him to take Dazzling Display, or Power Attack + Cornugon Smash. Then take the Dazzling Display chain to Shatter Defenses, allowing you to treat enemies under fear effects as flat footed.


First off,it would be nice to have a list of what gear you're using-so far it LOOKS like a longbow.

Secondly,what are your tactics? Like Sunset said,it's nice to work with the party fighter in order to get sneak attacks,but a tactic I like is taking a 2 level dip in Ninja,getting Vanishing Trick,and taking the Extra Ki feat as needed.However,on a topic I started on the board it said that you can't consistently use that to keep sneak attacking...?

Third off:This looks great! Keep up the good work.


SunsetPsychosis wrote:
The best way I've found to reliably get sneak attack involves working with your party fighter. Get him to take Dazzling Display, or Power Attack + Cornugon Smash. Then take the Dazzling Display chain to Shatter Defenses, allowing you to treat enemies under fear effects as flat footed.

I WISH that Shatter Defenses worked that way, but as per RAW it reads, "Any...opponent hit by YOU this round is flat-footed to YOUR attacks until the end of your next turn." It doesn't apply to attacks from allies. =(


It absolutely works that way. You just won't get SA on the first attack. But the beauty of archery is firing of 6-7 shots per round. And all the rogue has to do is delay in the shadows until the fighter demoralizes on his first hit, then full attack. The first shot gets SA from the surprise, the subsequent iterative attacks get SA from Shatter Defenses. It doesn't specify that YOU have to be the one to apply the fear condition. Also, it's to the END of your next turn, so the following round every single shot gets SA dice on it. And because you hit in that round, it extends the Shatter Defenses indefinitely, as long as you hit at least once per round and the fear condition lasts.


For even more fun, have your fighter (or yourself) do the AoE Intimidate from Shatter Defenses, then fire off a shot at multiple enemies, setting up a Shatter Defenses chain on more than one mob. Or the fighter can use Cornugon Smash + Whirlwind Attack to spread the demoralize, then you pop a couple shots into Ogre 1 and Ogre 2.


If you are suggesting that the Rogue takes the Shatter Defenses feat and uses it after a Fighter uses Dazzling Display or some other way of demoralizing or frightening opponents, then yes, you are absolutely correct and I am wrong.

If you still mean that the Fighter does all the work (meaning intimidating with Dazzling Display in conjunction with Shatter Defenses), and then the Rogue gets to sneak attack (without having the Shatter Defenses feat) after the Fighter does this, then you need to reread those rules again. I know it doesn't specify that the Rogue has to be the one to apply the fear condition, but the Rogue would still have to have the Shatter Defenses feat in order to benefit from attacking said frightened opponents in a flat-footed condition.

Either way, I think the Rogue might be feat starved and need to spend them on other things.


Yes, I am suggesting that the rogue take Shatter Defenses. Dazzling Display is a partially wasted feat, but unfortunately required. Weapon Focus, at least, is a decent feat and is also obtainable via rogue talent.

The only reason you need the fighter's help (note an Inquisitor or Paladin can also do well, fighters just have more feats to play with) is as a reliable way to spread the shaken condition via Intimidate demoralize without wasting your own actions to do so. And with Cornugon Smash, the fighter gets to Intimidate while doing something he was already doing (Power Attacking the enemy).


SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Yes, I am suggesting that the rogue take Shatter Defenses. Dazzling Display is a partially wasted feat, but unfortunately required. Weapon Focus, at least, is a decent feat and is also obtainable via rogue talent.

The only reason you need the fighter's help (note an Inquisitor or Paladin can also do well, fighters just have more feats to play with) is as a reliable way to spread the shaken condition via Intimidate demoralize without wasting your own actions to do so. And with Cornugon Smash, the fighter gets to Intimidate while doing something he was already doing (Power Attacking the enemy).

Well then, I think we need to play together then since I'm playing a Dragon Disciple who can basically do this kind of thing already. She's very good at intimidating/demoralizing. We'd have a great time flattening foes together. =)


submit2me wrote:
SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Yes, I am suggesting that the rogue take Shatter Defenses. Dazzling Display is a partially wasted feat, but unfortunately required. Weapon Focus, at least, is a decent feat and is also obtainable via rogue talent.

The only reason you need the fighter's help (note an Inquisitor or Paladin can also do well, fighters just have more feats to play with) is as a reliable way to spread the shaken condition via Intimidate demoralize without wasting your own actions to do so. And with Cornugon Smash, the fighter gets to Intimidate while doing something he was already doing (Power Attacking the enemy).

Well then, I think we need to play together then since I'm playing a Dragon Disciple who can basically do this kind of thing already. She's very good at intimidating/demoralizing. We'd have a great time flattening foes together. =)

Helping design this for a friend who wants to stay ranged, be a sorta skill monkey and still do some damage. He will be using a composite longbow (eventually of str) so I thought with shot on the run, vital strike, gravity bow and sneak attack he would do alright damage on 1 shot then dive back for cover, rinse and repeat.


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Gravity Bow isn't worth it in the slightest, you'd be better off using those rogue talents spent on Major Magic to pick up extra combat feats and sniping-related talents. Archery is unfortunately a bit feat-intensive, as you need Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Manyshot, and Improved Precise shot.

Note that afaik you wouldn't be able to use Vital Strike with Shot on the Run, as Vital Strike is a standard action. So he'd just step out, fire a single shot, then stand there. Firing multiple arrows far trumps a single one with double weapon dice, especially if you can get Sneak Attack from range. The jumping in and out of shadows to snipe may work a bit at low levels, but it doesn't scale well at all, and the damage won't be competitive to even a standard full attack.


SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Gravity Bow isn't worth it in the slightest, you'd be better off using those rogue talents spent on Major Magic to pick up extra combat feats and sniping-related talents. Archery is unfortunately a bit feat-intensive, as you need Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Manyshot, and Improved Precise shot.

Note that afaik you wouldn't be able to use Vital Strike with Shot on the Run, as Vital Strike is a standard action. So he'd just step out, fire a single shot, then stand there. Firing multiple arrows far trumps a single one with double weapon dice, especially if you can get Sneak Attack from range. The jumping in and out of shadows to snipe may work a bit at low levels, but it doesn't scale well at all, and the damage won't be competitive to even a standard full attack.

Thanks, for the advice, I am noobish on builds and the rest of my party looks to me for help :( I will try a re-build and post in in the am, to tired now.

BTW, how do I post in the same topic without always replying? only my 2nd time posting here. Thanks.


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I won't comment too much on the build, since I personally think any sniper rogue is doomed to failure (the shatter defense line and a cooperating melee type is really the only way to possibly make it worthwhile. Then good luck against the undead or anyone immune to Fear.).

However...why Light? Seems like a very odd choice for a sniper type.

Also, focused shot is bad. Standard action to add your Int to damage? Vital strike is far better.

And rapid shot or many shot at level 11? That's far, far too late unless you are starting at a higher level.

14th level rogue talent only applies to adjacent enemies.

Ok, so I guess I will comment on the build.

Skip rogue. The fighter is still a good idea.

Instead of Rogue, go with Alchemist. Sounds weird, I know. Take the Vivisectionist archetype, so you can get sneak attack.

You will get a Mutagen (put it in Dex, so you don't miss). You will get some cool potions. You'll have amazing RP flavor.

Wanna make your own poisons, then apply them to your shots? Go ahead! You can do it easily and cheaply.

Get some Sniper's Goggles. Sneak Attack at any range. +2 damage per SA die when within 30' feat. That's a great thing.

Play a halfling. Take swift as shadows. That gives you only a -10 penalty after Stealth. That's much better, and you only give up sure footed. Plus you're small, so that's +4 to stealth. That more than makes up for not having stealth as a class skill. Plus, you can still take a trait to get Stealth, if you need that +3 that badly.

Pick up Alchemical Allocation and a +5 Potion of Greater Magic Weapon. That potion will cost you 3k gp.

You can use Alchemical Allocation, drink it, spit it out as per the spell, and you'll have a +5 enhancement to hit and damage bonus all day long. Almost literally all day long too, since it'll last 20 hours.

You get Bleeding Attack.

Are the formulae really tied to an archer build? Nope! (trust me, I checked), but you were already gonna go rogue which gets *no* spellcasting, so that clearly doesn't bother you too much. All of these are just icing on the cake. You can get Fly, Haste, and Heroism. That's incredible, just by itself!

You could play Boring Rogue #105408909i809, or you could play a naturalist who likes to study his subjects from a far. One day, you discovered that your watching talents went well with taking the lives from creatures. The vivisectionist has such amazing RP potential.

Skip rogue, go Alchemist. Do the sniper, and do it better.


Amric wrote:
SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Gravity Bow isn't worth it in the slightest, you'd be better off using those rogue talents spent on Major Magic to pick up extra combat feats and sniping-related talents. Archery is unfortunately a bit feat-intensive, as you need Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Manyshot, and Improved Precise shot.

Note that afaik you wouldn't be able to use Vital Strike with Shot on the Run, as Vital Strike is a standard action. So he'd just step out, fire a single shot, then stand there. Firing multiple arrows far trumps a single one with double weapon dice, especially if you can get Sneak Attack from range. The jumping in and out of shadows to snipe may work a bit at low levels, but it doesn't scale well at all, and the damage won't be competitive to even a standard full attack.

Thanks, for the advice, I am noobish on builds and the rest of my party looks to me for help :( I will try a re-build and post in in the am, to tired now.

BTW, how do I post in the same topic without always replying? only my 2nd time posting here. Thanks.

Add New Post, at the bottom.

Remember, skip rogue, go halfling vivisectionist :) You can even use all your level 1 extracts on True Strike, to make *sure* you hit.


There's an Add New Post button at the bottom ;)

A sample build off the top of my head might look something like this
Fighter 1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Rogue 1:
Rogue 2: Weapon Focus (Longbow)(via talent), Deadly Aim
Rogue 3:
Rogue 4: Dazzling Display, Sniper's Eye talent
Rogue 5:
Rogue 6: Bleeding Attack talent, feat of choice
Rogue 7:
Rogue 8: Manyshot (via Combat Trick), Shatter Defenses

From there it's however you want to continue. Note that other alternatives would be using an elf or half elf to get the weapon proficiency for longbow, as well as things like Silent Hunter (elf alternate racial trait). The +2 racial bonus to Perception and immunities/save bonuses aren't to be underestimated. It also opens up the option of going into Arcane Archer, which is a decent PrC that has full BAB progression.

A level or two of Ranger would also fill in well (in lieu of Fighter), netting nearly the same skill points, a few extra skills, favored enemy (or Guide), tracking, full BAB, a bonus feat at level 2, and the same martial proficiencies.

Silver Crusade

I agree with the previous post, if you want to do a sniper type you need to be a halfling, with that one racial trait sub that's gives you a -10 instead of -20. That combined with the stealth bonus will help a lot.


Vivisectionist will also give you invisibility (greater) extract eventually, which would be extremely useful for sniping I suspect.


Jal wrote:
Vivisectionist will also give you invisibility (greater) extract eventually, which would be extremely useful for sniping I suspect.

Ahh, that's right. That alone makes the alchemist far better.

Pop greater invis, put on your sniper goggles, and start plinking away from within 30'. You'll be level 10 by then, doing 5d6+10 points of sneak attack per arrow. That's very nice, and makes this a valid build.


Amric wrote:

Sorry for the length of the post, looking for advice on a build. I did search the message board but couldn't find what I was looking for.

First, I'm not really impressed with the sniper archetype. You'll get very little use out of it imho, especially when sniper goggles get into the picture.

Second, I'm far less impressed with shot on the run. For 3 feats it isn't giving you much, if anything. If you were using dodge, mobility to also enter into shadowdancer or the like it would be one thing but you're not.

Third, as another poster said spending two rogue talents to get gravity bow is bad. Pick up an ioun stone that can store a level 1 spell (2k gold) and a wand of gravity bow. Even with a very low UMD (like 1 rank and a 7 CHA will give you a +2) you can get the ioun stone charged on your own.. or if the party has someone that has it on their spell list (a ranger, wizard, sorcerer iirc) then they can do it out of combat.

Lastly, as other posters have said getting sneak attack is going to be a little difficult for you. What's the nature of your campaign? Is it organized play (PFS?) or a home campaign where you know what the rest of your party will be?

-James


Alright, time to go back over the books for a better build. A little background on our campaign. I believe we will be doing Kingmaker or some homebrew campaign. The current classes in the party are a summoner, barbarian, battle cleric and a front line fighter type.

I would classify all of us as casual gamers, 2 times a month, so the nuances of builds and classes maybe lost on us. Alchemist option looks cool, will delve into that a bit deeper. My GM is generally low magic so I don't generally think of magic items when I create a build.

Thanks for all the advice, I will post another build later after more research, appreciate the help and advice.


Amric wrote:

Alright, time to go back over the books for a better build. A little background on our campaign. I believe we will be doing Kingmaker or some homebrew campaign. The current classes in the party are a summoner, barbarian, battle cleric and a front line fighter type.

I would classify all of us as casual gamers, 2 times a month, so the nuances of builds and classes maybe lost on us. Alchemist option looks cool, will delve into that a bit deeper. My GM is generally low magic so I don't generally think of magic items when I create a build.

Thanks for all the advice, I will post another build later after more research, appreciate the help and advice.

Okay the summoner is both back rank (casting) and front rank (summons/eidolon), barbarian sounds melee as does battle cleric and of course 'front line fighter type'.

So definitely a back rank type of PC seems reasonable. Likewise the desire to be able to stealth & find/deal with traps.

Might I suggest a curmudgeonly Dwarven Zen Archer Monk with 2 level dips into Rogue? Pick up trapfinding, the evasion that you lost, and a rogue talent (trap spotter)? If you don't mind not having trap spotter (which imho is near essential for a real trap detector PC) simply take a single dip into Ranger (trapper variant, perhaps guide variant as well).

-James


Alright, here's a rough outline of what I recommend:

Halfling with Swift as Shadows racial trait. This isn't actually necessary since you'll eventually get greater invisibility, so Human for that extra feat may still be a great idea.

1st Level: Fighter (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot). Get that extra attack ASAP.

2nd level: Vivisectionist. Make sure to pick up True Strike and maybe Shield. CLW never hurt either. Ask your GM if you can swap out Throw Anything for another ranged feat. That feat is for throwing bombs, which you can't do. I think this is a very reasonable request. Deadly Aim will be useful eventually, so it's a good choice. Just don't use it too much, since with that and Rapid Shot, you'll be at -3 to hit. Your mutagen (+4 to dex) will help out a ton with this.

3rd Level: Vivisectionist (Precise Shot). Probably take Bleeding Attack as your discovery. The only discoveries that pop out to me as "gotta haves" for this build are the better Mutagens. Bottled Ooze could be useful too. Throw that down when invisible, and let the resulting chaos benefit you. You'll probably be taking quite a few of the "odd" discoveries, since you'll have slim pickings.

4th level: Vivisectionist

5th: Viv (Precise Shot). Probably take Combine Extracts. Possibly Concentrate Poisons if you want to go that route.

6th: Viv

7th: Viv (Manyshot)

8th: Viv. Make *sure* to get Haste. With haste, your mutagen, rapid shot, and manyshot, you'll be making 5 attacks. 4 of them at BAB + 1, and one at BAB - 4. Your mutagen negates Rapid Shot's penalty.

9+: Really, whatever you want after this. You have all the basics. Just make sure to grab Greater Invisibility.

If you want to be cheesy, make a potion of Greater Invisibility as a summoner. They get it at spell level 3, so it can be made into a potion. Then use Alchemical Allocation to keep it forever.

Make sure to buy an iron flask, and then an adamantine flask for your potion of Greater Magic Weapon (and Greater Invis, if you go that route). You don't want to lose that!


Been working on the ideal sniper build myself. I don't care for the rogue sniper archetype, since Far shot, and sniper goggles is superior I feel. Not sure if you're trying to stay core rules, but if you're using the D20PFSRD, I would like people's input on my idea.

How effective would taking the Ki Pool Rogue Talent, maximize Dex, then Wisdom, then use one more Rogue talent to get the Vanishing Trick Ninja talent, then at 10th level get the invisible blade ninja trick. This would be effective, if a little limited by ki points to get ranged SA.


If your GM allows it, take EWP, and pick up a Rifle too. Gun + Sniper Goggles = brilliant OP Goodness. I have many fond memories of my Gunslinger / Sniper Rogue


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Instead of taking dips in ninja or the ki pool talent, go ninja directly.
If you want to keep the trapfinding, speak to your GM and trade it for poison use. You can still use rogue archetypes getting sniper archetype.
This is a good way to increase sneak attack range untill you have 20.000gp for sniper goggles.

As a ninja you have access to rogue talents and you can take vanishing trick and invisible blade at level 10. Then you can auto sneak attack 10 rounds. (unfortunately most other ninja talents dont help you much. ninja is just optimized for shuriken, but you could think about that too.)

Halfling is the best option for this, even if you miss the bonus feat.
You get +1 to hit, +4 to sneak and swift as shadows.


Slowmotion, if it takes 10 levels to start working, it's not too effective :-)

Check out the link in my profile about sneak attack and ask your GM if you can use that. It means you don't have to jump through so many hoops as a sniper rogue.


I once thought about taking not also the Sniper archetype but also the Scout. At 8th level you are allowed to make sneak attack by moving 30ft (but only on the first attack). This does not seem to be restricted to melee attacks.


But only on the first attack is the bane of ranged rogues everywhere.


Geez is there anything, anything at all a rogue is good at?

No matter what it is, some other combination of classes is better at it.

And what a rogue can do, can be duplicated by magic, a minor dip, or just using some skill ranks with another class.


HUMAN KNIFE MASTER SCOUT
Rogue favored class alternative

Abilities: 20 point buy.
STR: 10, DEX: 19 +4, CON: 12 +1, INT: 14 +2, WIS: 12 +1, CHA: 8

Alignment: Lawful neutral
Role: Striker and scout. Local guide. Using wands.
Initiative: +6
10 skill points per level

Traits:
1. Reactionary (+2 int)
You were bullied often as a child, but never quite developed an offensive response.
Instead, you became adept at anticipating sudden attacks and reacting to danger quickly.
2. Deft dodger (+1 ref)
Growing up in a rough neighborhood or a dangerous environment has honed your senses.

Feats:
1 feat: two weapon fighting
1 bonus feat: weapon focus dagger
2 rogue talent: weapon finesse
3 feat: dodge
4 rogue talent: slow reactions
4 scout talent: charge and SA
5 feat: disorienting maneuver
6 rogue talent: offensive defense
6 bonus rogue talent: befuddling strike
7 feat: point blank shot
8 rogue talent: combat trick precise shot
8 Scout talent: move 10ft then SA
9 feat: skill focus (use magic device)
10 rogue talent: entanglement of blades
11 feat: spring attack
12 Rogue talent: crippling strike
12 Bonus rogue talent: skill mastery
13 feat: magical aptitude

Skills:
acrobatics
appraise
disable device
escape artist
knowledge (dungeoneering)
knowledge (local)
linguistics
perception
stealth
use magical device

Weapons of choice:
Two magical daggers
1x Throwing and returning dagger
Short bow
Lots of wands

Sneak attack:
1d8 with knifes

This is the sneak freak...stab first, ask questions later!!!


The only viable ranged sneak attack build I know of dips Oracle 1 for Water Sight revelation, plops down some obscuring mist, and uses that fact that anyone not adjacent can't see him to full attack SA. Alternatively, a melee ally willing to dip rogue for 2 levels just to take Distracting Attack, but that's more situational and is asking a LOT of someone...

As for the Sniper archetype...it's made of fail and lose. Same book that printed it printed the sniper's goggles, which let you SA at any range, and +2 damage per die if the foe is within 30 ft. Obsoleting the bulk of your archetype! If you can get your DM to agree to extend the "bonus damage range" beyond 30 ft to equal your sniper's natural SA range (which seems like a totally reasonable houserule to me, should be the RAW), go with sniper. Otherwise...I'd hold out for the goggles and pick another archetype that gives me something cool that won't become pointless later on.

Finally, every rogue archer needs to get a Seeking bow ASAP. Miss chances kill sneak attack; seeking means you never again have to care about them. On a similar note, I would never play an archer rogue w/o darkvision, or any rogue really...

EDIT: Oh wow, thread necro.


You should also check out urban ranger.

Dark Archive

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One trick I've discovered to actually make the sniper rogue slightly less fail (and this works MUCH better for the alchemist BTW) is to take the Gang Up feat.

gang Up:
You are adept at using greater numbers against foes.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.

Benefit: You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least two of your allies are threatening that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.


With this feat IF you have more than one melee'er in your party you are ALWAYS flanking and your sneak attack goes off on every arrow regardless of where you are.
It does have the feat tax of needing to have Combat expertise but it's an acceptable price for consistently getting your Sneak Attacks off.

If you don't usually have 2 or more melee available then you will need to make use of James Maissens idea from above.
Pick up a vibrant Purple Prism Ioun stone 2k and a wand of Summon Minor Monster. This will let you put 1+ extra allies into melee with the target letting you benefit from Gang Up and keeping your Sneak attack going.

Alchemists can actually just summon a lvl 1 critter into melee and go from there.
Rogues are just pretty bad in general but trying to make an archer one is just painful.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Unfortunately gang-up and flanking is for melee attacks only.
You would need to take the feat enfilading fire and have another person taking the same feat and flanking with you.
Or 3 persons take gang up, threaten a large area and at least to or better all 3 have enfilading fire and if ranged too best improved snap shot. This is a late game thing though.

I would really take a halfling for this and perhaps ninja arcehtype.
Also a seeking halfling slingstaff, weapon focus with that and some halfling slinging feats. Unfortunately you have to choose between swift as shadows and warslinger racial traits. With the advanced rogue talent for sniping its possible to snipe with a 0 penalty then.

As a 5th level halfling oportunist PrC you get all AoO´s with sneak attack. Unfortunately for ranged builds its difficult, because improved snap shot to threaten 15' ranged has BAB 11 prerequ, what comes late into play for a rogue and multiclass even later.

One thing you can try is greater dirty trick and then blind them.
I´m not sure how ranged feinting works.

It´s really bad too that halflings don´t have low-light vision, because else you could get moonlight stalker and moonlight stalker feint.

This way with weapon focus, halfling slinger, large target, moonlight stalker you could get some damage together with every shot. Moonlight stalker feint lets you feint as a swift action, also nice. Of course you would need concealment.


ashley rex wrote:

HUMAN KNIFE MASTER SCOUT

Are you looking for advice for this built ?

Just in case:
Trait: river-rat ! +1 damage with daggers
Are you aware that you´ll have a minus to hit at 1st level when using TWF?
Take weapon finesse from the start.

Dark Archive

Grr, I missed that FAQ update on the feat.
I hate missing FAQ updates. Oh well back to the drawing board.


Sorry, in a hurry and didn't read everything. Did anyone suggest the rogue Scout archetype?

Seems like you could consistently move around at range and fire off single-shot deadly aim, vital striking, sneak attacking attacks.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Cheapy wrote:

...stuff...

If you want to be cheesy, make a potion of Greater Invisibility as a summoner. They get it at spell level 3, so it can be made into a potion. Then use Alchemical Allocation to keep it forever.

Cheapy, does this actually work? As in, can an Alchemist craft a potion as a summoner? Or do you need to find a summoner with the Brew Potion feat to make it for you?


Amric wrote:

Sorry for the length of the post, looking for advice on a build.

If your DM allows older prestige classes into the game, there's something called Commando from Ultimate Prestige Classes.

It's 5 levels, and at level 1 it gets a class ability called "Snipe". It works like this: you hide, start shooting, and with each attack your opponents get a cumulative +2 to spot you. Until you're spotted, Bob's your uncle.

Also at level 5 it "upgrades" Point-Blank Shot to +2 to hit/damage and 60ft range. It also lets you sneak attack within 60ft.

If you can't use this, I think you won't be that effective unless your party helps a lot. Without flanking you just can't reliably do your signature damage ability.

It's also a good idea to get Rapid Shot and Weapon Focus as soon as possible.


Halflings have somethign that makes sniping easier. It reduces the penalty from -20 to -10 stealth check.

That plus Max ranks of stealth and every trick to get a bonus on it possible.

Get Hide in plain site somehow, a dip in shadow dancer probably being the easiest way.

I think that'll be your best bet for making a sniper rogue.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Its the racial trait "swift as shadows". Like i said, after level 10 if you combine that with the "stealthy sniper" advanced rogue talent its sniping with 0 penalty. At that level you can also add in sniper goggles.

Ring of chameleon power, skill focus stealth and sneaky help a lot.
Of course you can then take hellcat stealth, hide in plain sight or dip into shadowdancer for better hiding and getting into stealth.

The go unnoticed feat for halflings or small characters would to it too though, but you give up the surprise round.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Grr, I missed that FAQ update on the feat.

I hate missing FAQ updates. Oh well back to the drawing board.

Dont bother with the +1 returning dagger. get the scabbard of vigor from the APG and a bunch of non-magical daggers and quick draw. You throw them with a +4 enchantment for 1 round for a whopping 1800g for the item. If you have a wizard in the party, beg them to make you a bunch of these but unslotted (3-4 should do). (2700g for a +4 is still great) Then you can look like Merisiel the pathfinder generic rogue with the crapload of daggers and hav it be useful.

Unload throwing daggers in the first round, then switch to melee.


Hayato Ken wrote:

Its the racial trait "swift as shadows". Like i said, after level 10 if you combine that with the "stealthy sniper" advanced rogue talent its sniping with 0 penalty. At that level you can also add in sniper goggles.

Ring of chameleon power, skill focus stealth and sneaky help a lot.
Of course you can then take hellcat stealth, hide in plain sight or dip into shadowdancer for better hiding and getting into stealth.

The go unnoticed feat for halflings or small characters would to it too though, but you give up the surprise round.

rapid reload and prone shooter may be good for this too. Then you can have cover and concealment behind a little bush and prone bonuses. Combine with Stand Up if you need to split.


Cheapy,

I have been telling the Rogue Sniper in our party to go Alchemist Vivisectionist from Day one...

He even thought I was you disguising myself on the message boards to prove my point.

All I can say to you Cheapy is God bless you, man!

And to the Rogue Sniper in my party who is reading this... SUCK IT!

(he and I are best friends, and he says the same thing to me all the time)

Liberty's Edge

I think the easiest way to get consistent Sneak Attack with a ranged rogue is to bump up your WIS and take the rogue talents that let you get Ki points and then pick up the Ninja trick that lets you become invisible. A sniper should have really good perception, anyway.

Your other options are to go with a different race. If you go Tiefling, you can stand inside your own magical darkness and take the feat that lets you use Darkness 3x/day. If you go Ifrit, you can buy an Eversmoking Bottle and pick up the Firesight feat that lets you see clearly through fire and smoke.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*casts animate dead thread* :)

So...any changes in the past 2 years? How would a Slayer Sniper work? Still have access to rogue talents, plus full BAB, medium armor, favored target goodness...


You don't need to be an Ifrit, you can use a Goz mask.

Also, if you go ninja, you can use smoke bombs as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
LoneKnave wrote:

You don't need to be an Ifrit, you can use a Goz mask.

Also...

I thought about that...

Eversmoking Bottle 5.4k
Goz Mask 8k.

The look on your opponent's eyes as he takes a sneak attack salvo to the face...priceless.

Still it would be nice if this could be done via abilities and not items.

And the one unfortunate issue is that Sniper Goggles are really, really good...and they take the same slot as the Goz Mask. But considering they cost more than Goz+EB combined...maybe consider SG for later.

Wrote up a PFS party-unfriendly build.

smokey the sniper:

Tiefling (for the pesky darkvision)

ch va cs rc to
st 16 10 16
dx 15 07 +2 17
cn 14 05 14
in 10 00 +2 12
ws 12 02 12
ch 07 -4 -2 05
all adds to dex.

01 Bludgeoner
02 Slayer Talent(Ranger Combat Style: PBS)
03 Precise Shot
04 ST(Rapid Shot)
05 Sap Adept
06 ST(RCS: Improved Precise Shot)

Build comes online around 6th level right when you should have enough gold for a Goz Mask and Eversmoking Bottle. And 3,400 for a +1 composite bow, adaptive (or I suppose 2 PP for the +3 str darkwood bow, and then 2,000 gp for the +1 if you want to save a little cash).

After surprise round (hopefully getting a SNA) if viable pop smoke. Opponent is now effectively blinded. Activate Favored Target.
Next turn use Rapid Shot and blunt arrows.

ranged: +4(dx)+1(enh)+2(ft)+6(bab)+1(pbs)-2(rapid)=+12 vs. AC(foe no dex, -2 AC)
hit: 1d8+3(st)+1(enh)+1(pbs)+2(ft)+2d6+4(SNA)
+12/+12/+7 1d8+2d6+11


Not great, but okay. Kind of a niche build, as he's doing non-lethal. And you have Improved Precise Shot at 6th which is nice. Though PFS PUGs will hate you unless you stay far away or they all have a Goz Mask as well :)

Sovereign Court

Take an 1-level dip into Oracle of Waves, and take the Water Sight revelation. Also, select Obscuring Mist as a spell known.

Liberty's Edge

A Goz Mask is a head slot, not an eye slot. I hate to give up my Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, though.

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