Improvised weapon mastery and imp crit

Rules Questions

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

So do they work together?

Improved critical says that it does not stack with any other effect that expands critical threat ranges.

But does improvised weapon mastery expand an improvised weapon's base critical threat range or does it set the base threat range to 19-20?

The reason I ask this is because the feat says this:

improvised weapon mastery from prd wrote:

The improvised weapon has a critical threat range of 19–20, with a critical multiplier of ×2.

Unlike every other critical ability, improvised weapon mastery does not say, double the threat range.

Imp crit, keen, and keen edge all declare that they double a weapons threat range and that they do not stack with other effects.

Jaguar pounce is a feat that mimicks imp crit under certain conditions and thus declares as much.

Seeing as how improvised weapon mastery is worded differently than the other abilities, is it fair to say that it is changing the weapons base threat range? Otherwise, why would they not just use the same format as before and declare that it doubled the threat range of improvised weapons( from 20/x2 to 19-20/x2)?

Would say no only in that you can't choose Imp Weapon as a choice for imp crit

Talonhawke wrote:
Would say no only in that you can't choose Imp Weapon as a choice for imp crit

In a general case that is true. Thus one would have to use keen or keen edge.

But a monk of the empty hand(well monks in general) could take imp crit without meeting prereqs.

I would say no also, since for improved critical, you have to choose a weapon that receives the improved crit range, and improvised weapons is a weapon category, like light blades or axes.

rays aren't a specific weapon and you can take weapon focus/imp crit with them.

though if that would prove a distraction, focus on keen + improvised weapon mastery.

Rays are a specific weapon, given that they are specifically mentioned in the weapon focus feat as being a legal option for weapon focus. Improvised weapons are not listed there as a viable option (and yes, I am aware that every other weapon is not listed either, because they are all specific weapons). Since Throw Anything, Catch Off Guard, and Improvised Weapon Mastery are all in the same book as Improved Critical and Weapon Focus, if they were a possible option, it would (or at least should) have been mentioned.

Also said feats imply a certain amount of training towards the weapon your basicly jackie chan good you can fight with a lot but you dont spend your training time using chairs and ladders.

oh and on rays just cause they have differing effects still the same thing a magical ray fired from a bodily location. if i have flaming and frost arrows i dont need the feats twice to shoot them only once for the bow.

I´m sympathetic the original OP...
Although the IWM Feat previously says it is ´increases´ the base damage, which would seem to be the equivalent of ´expansion´ (of crit range), i.e. a modification of the weapon stats.
So I can´t really say one way or the other... I´m hitting the FAQ button though.

I would definitely allow Improvised Weapons to be selected for Wpn Focus, Spec, or Improved Crit, you would just need to specify which type of Improvised Weapon, i.e. the base damage based on if it´s Light, 1Handed, 2Handed, as well as damage type (Bludgeon, Piercing, Slashing). Individual Weapons all have different stats (at the least being different proficiencies affecting attack rolls). Rays don´t have any different weapon stats (just spell effects), so they qualify as one weapon. Each ´class´ of Improvised Weapon (L/1H/2H x B/S/P) equivalently should qualify as one weapon (since all weapon stats are now the same and there is no difference in proficiency, i.e. no game mechanic can distinguish 1H Bludgeoning Improvised Weapons from one another) for purposes of those Feats.

Unfortunately this sentence in Improved Critical kills the the thought of stacking these two feats.

This effect doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon.

The catch all word is EFFECT.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It's a bit difficult to get Weapon Focus with an Improvised Weapon, but not impossible.

blackbloodtroll wrote:
It's a bit difficult to get Weapon Focus with an Improvised Weapon, but not impossible.

Improvisational Focus

"" wrote:

A makeshift weapon in your hands is as dangerous as any other instrument of violence.

Prerequisite(s): Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls you make using an improvised weapon. You are considered proficient with the improvised weapon and are considered to have Weapon Focus with improvised weapons for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of feats that specifically select a weapon, such as Weapon Specialization.

Special: Thrown splash weapons are not considered improvised weapons for the purposes of this feat.

Since improved critical requires proficiency and BAB+8, this feat implicitly states proficiency.

I'd also argue that the language in IWM doesn't expand the range, it "sets" it. I'd allow it.

You're responding to someone that wrote this almost 7 years ago. It's unlikely they will see your response at this point.

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