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Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

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Basic idea of this thread is to come up with an AP idea and then loosely describe each of the 6 books. Here's mine as an example.

Theme: War/Crusades/Demons

Location: Mendev/Worldwound

Book 1: Boot Camp and the first battle. Players spend their first level going through a boot camp and then are immediately thrust onto the front lines against a demonic push. Using Full Metal Jacket as a theme much like RotR3 used Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Book 2: This chapter would focus on the Low Templars and corruption in the army

Book 3: In this book the PCs are put into command of a unit to go behind the lines where they discover the seeds of a greater threat

Book 4 The players are court martialed on trumped up charges and have to make their case to the leaders of the Crusade while a demonic cult works against them.

Book 5 The biggest battle yet as the PCs must command the bulk of the army to take the area needed so they can enter the Abyss

Book 6 The players must travel into the Abyss to destroy a powerful demonic general on his home plane before he can enter Golarion

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've got a ton of ideas. But my take on the above.

The Glowing Crusade

Themes: War/Crusades/Demons

Location: Lastwall, Mendev, Worldwound

Book 1: Recruitment Drive (Level 1-3) The PCs are new recruits manning a Fort in Lastwall, this book sees the PCs take down an Orc Warlord in his final push against Lastwall. Once the PCs are successful the leadership in Lastwall asks the PCs to join them for a commendation. Once there the PCs learn of a greater push coming from the Worldwound and are asked to join a company of Lastwall's finest to join the Mendevian crusade.

Book 2: Pilgrimage of the Willing (Level 4-7) The PCs travel with their company up through Ustalav and Numeria along the way they encounter undead abominations, a witch burning, a town under the thrall of a demonic machine and a traitor in their own midst. The leader of their own Company possessed by a demon. The PCs must defeat their own leader and take control of the company. Finally reaching Mendev itself where they are arrested for attacking a superior officer.

Book 3: The Mendevian Inquisition (Level 8-10) The PCs must quickly prove their own innocence and also prevent an inquisition from getting out of hand. With an over-zealous inquisition on one side, and cultists undermining the city on the other the PCs must find the source of this paranoia and madness before their Crusade can go any further. Unfortunately by the end of the book they'll have discovered that a dangerous crime has already been committed and the wardstone keeping the demons at bay has been destroyed. With the city under attack the PCs must lead the evacuation of the innocent civilians from the city, before it is razed to the ground.

Book 4: The Reclamation of Sarujem (Level 11-13) A more Sandboxy adventure the PCs are given responsibility for retaking the city, they must secure aid from other companies (low templars, paladins, merchants and mercenaries alike) and fight back the demonic host that has taken over the city. Missions include rescuing civilians still inside the city, defeating Demonic Lieutenants and destroying the planar cancer set in place by the demonic host discovering the location of the newest portal to the abyss.

Book 5: Into the Worldwound (Level 14-16) The PCs must sally forth with their army towards the Worldwound (use Mass Combat rules), restore the broken Wardstones and fight their way to the demon-gate somewhere within the hostile Worldwound. As evil, taint and madness find their way into the PC's armies can the shining heroes of Mendev succeed in their task before their armies destroy themselves? Upon capturing the gate it is clear that it can only be closed from the other side. Leaving them only one choice.

Book 6: Paladins in the Abyss (17-18) The PCs move into the Abyss itself carrying with them an Ark - a weapon of mass destruction capable of dealing massive damage to this demonic staging post. If the PCs are to use it to it's utmost though they must find their way into the palace of Nurgal, a Demon Lord who was once powerful in the times of ancient Azlant now reduced to a shadow of his power. Even so more than a match for the PCs, so the heroes must tread lightly through the Abyss before unleashing their weapon in the heart of Nurgal's palace. Doing so unleashes a cascade of Gates from Heaven, unleashing an army of celestials at the PC's command and weakening Nurgal's power. The final battle is on - and the PCs have the opportunity to end the threat of Nurgal once and for all.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Riddle of Osirion

Themes: Treasure Hunting, Politics, Religion, History

Location: Osirion

Book 1: Tomb Raiders (Level 1-4) The PCs have each been given a piece of a map that supposedly leads to a great treasure - the problem is the final piece of the map is missing. The PCs must infiltrate a notorious thieve's guild and snatch the piece before heading into the desert to find the Lost Tomb of Wa-djet - lost king of Osirion. Unfortunately the PC's inadvertently free undead mummy king who blows into the desert.

Book 2: The Canopic Keys (Level 5-6) Having freed a mummy king from his imprisonment the PCs must seek out his organs that are hidden in tombs throughout Osirion. The Mummy King is wasting no time though and has raised his servants to hound the PC's at every step. The PCs must break into a Museum, a Palace, A River Barge and a Temple.

Book 3: The Pyramid of Wa-djet (Level 7-8) Armed with the Canopic Keys the PCs must seek out the Pyramid of Wa-djet - designed to restore the long dead ruler's power to it's utmost. The PCs must brave a megadungeon in order to access the inverse pyramid of Wa-Djet. At it's deepest point the PCs face off against Wa-Djet's most fearsome guards and the king himself uses the power of the pyramid to throw the PCs back in time to the height of the corrupt king's rule.

Book 4: The Sphynx's Riddle (Level 9-10) The PCs are sent back into the Age of Destiny the PCs see Wa-Djet during the height of his rule. The PCs in the past watch the pyramid being built and are able to seek the help of the Sphynx who originally imprisoned Wa-Djet. The PCs discover that they are the key to imprisoning the corrupt Pharaoh.

Book 5: Time Tossed (Level 10-11) The PC's time gate throws the PCs into dangerous eras of Golarion's history, the PCs must restore these moments in Golarion history in order to return to their own time. Along the way gaining weapons and items that will help them in their final confrontation with the Corrupt Pharaoh.

Book 6: Big Trouble in Osirion (Level 12-13) The PCs return to their own time and find a few months have past. Ruby Prince Khemet III is a prisoner of the undead pharaoh of Osirion. The PCs must free the Pharaoh's slaves and finally defeat the evil that they first unleashed!


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

The Riddle of Osirion

Themes: Treasure Hunting, Politics, Religion, History

Location: Osirion

Book 1: Tomb Raiders (Level 1-4) The PCs have each been given a piece of a map that supposedly leads to a great treasure - the problem is the final piece of the map is missing. The PCs must infiltrate a notorious thieve's guild and snatch the piece before heading into the desert to find the Lost Tomb of Wa-djet - lost king of Osirion. Unfortunately the PC's inadvertently free undead mummy king who blows into the desert.

Book 2: The Canopic Keys (Level 5-6) Having freed a mummy king from his imprisonment the PCs must seek out his organs that are hidden in tombs throughout Osirion. The Mummy King is wasting no time though and has raised his servants to hound the PC's at every step. The PCs must break into a Museum, a Palace, A River Barge and a Temple.

Book 3: The Pyramid of Wa-djet (Level 7-8) Armed with the Canopic Keys the PCs must seek out the Pyramid of Wa-djet - designed to restore the long dead ruler's power to it's utmost. The PCs must brave a megadungeon in order to access the inverse pyramid of Wa-Djet. At it's deepest point the PCs face off against Wa-Djet's most fearsome guards and the king himself uses the power of the pyramid to throw the PCs back in time to the height of the corrupt king's rule.

Book 4: The Sphynx's Riddle (Level 9-10) The PCs are sent back into the Age of Destiny the PCs see Wa-Djet during the height of his rule. The PCs in the past watch the pyramid being built and are able to seek the help of the Sphynx who originally imprisoned Wa-Djet. The PCs discover that they are the key to imprisoning the corrupt Pharaoh.

Book 5: Time Tossed (Level 10-11) The PC's time gate throws the PCs into dangerous eras of Golarion's history, the PCs must restore these moments in Golarion history in order to return to their own time. Along the way gaining weapons and items that will help them in their final confrontation with...

+1 I'd buy that for a dollar!

This is an awesome plot (OK, its a little cribbed from the mummy movies, etc, but still cool) and it soulds like it'd be fn to run or play.

I'll be honest, Worldwound/Mendev adventures dont interest me much. Iuse the WOrldwound and Mendev strictly as a background plot point...a place for NPCs to be travelling to when the heroes meet them.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
gigglestick wrote:
(OK, its a little cribbed from the mummy movies, etc, but still cool)

Yeah, but the theme of looters and treasure hunters who inadvertently release the campaign's BBEG is something that would form a brilliant core of a campaign. The trick would be in not making it feel like a massive rail road once things get set into motion.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
gigglestick wrote:
(OK, its a little cribbed from the mummy movies, etc, but still cool)
Yeah, but the theme of looters and treasure hunters who inadvertently release the campaign's BBEG is something that would form a brilliant core of a campaign. The trick would be in not making it feel like a massive rail road once things get set into motion.

It is, I'd love to see this one done.

Mendev/Worldwound/military campaign...not so much.

The Exchange

I figured I'd give this thread a bump. It's got some great ideas, and I'd like to see others weigh in. Personally, I think both of those AP ideas have great potential, and I'm always looking for great plots to work into my home campaign.


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A little sad I never saw this thread before... well here goes:

The Final War

Themes: Colonization, Exploration, Politics, Apocalypse

Location: Arcadia, the Golarion's New World.

Book One: Wooden Lament The PCs arrive at Elesomare, an Andoran lumber colony, where they take charge to protect the locals from attacks of the natives, bandits, and wildlife. Ends with them halting a hobgoblin war party from attacking the colony and possibly securing peace with a local tribe.

Book Two: The Unholy Hunt The PCs have a chance to explore and further their ties with the natives of the area. However, a strange and terrible creature neither man or animal has begun hunting colonists and natives alike. When the PCs discover the true killer, it will send shivers down their spines.

Book Three: People of the Forest The PCs have to stop a coordinated attack against Elesomare by several tribes in the area forcing the colonists out. The PCs find out that a sacred artifact was stolen from the nation of tribes and the Andoran colony has been framed. The PCs travel to a large gathering of the Arcadian tribes to prove the colony's innocence, gain their allegiance, and discover the real culprit pitting tribes against colony.

Book Four: Upon a Red Horse Discovering the artifact was stolen by a Cheliax nobleman from the slave and mining post Anchor's End, the PC set off to help the Arcadian Nations by retrieving the artifact. This takes them through a web of deceit and slavery that leads to a strange underground temple dedicated to the Horseman of War and a terrible prophecy.

Book Five: Horror at the Ravenous Peaks Learning of the prophecy and the nobleman's terrible role to play in it, the PCs trail on her heels to the mountains, where a second artifact and a dangerous, cannibalistic creature reigns supreme and leads an army of ghouls created from lost Ulfen vikings.

Book Six: Manifest Destiny With Elesomare caught in between the Arcadian Nations and a large army of soldiers from Cheliax, the PCs must stop the sides from clashing against each other before they tear a fissure into Abaddon and bring about a terrible apocalypse.

Combining Native American mythology and American Colonial era history, The Final War is what I would imagine an Arcadian AP would be. There would be chances for players to be colonists or natives hired by the colony of Elesomare. I even think it would be a great place to have firearms. It's been a setting I've been wanting to play for a long time now.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

The Riddle of Osirion

Themes: Treasure Hunting, Politics, Religion, History

Location: Osirion

Book 1: Tomb Raiders (Level 1-4) The PCs have each been given a piece of a map that supposedly leads to a great treasure - the problem is the final piece of the map is missing. The PCs must infiltrate a notorious thieve's guild and snatch the piece before heading into the desert to find the Lost Tomb of Wa-djet - lost king of Osirion. Unfortunately the PC's inadvertently free undead mummy king who blows into the desert.

Book 2: The Canopic Keys (Level 5-6) Having freed a mummy king from his imprisonment the PCs must seek out his organs that are hidden in tombs throughout Osirion. The Mummy King is wasting no time though and has raised his servants to hound the PC's at every step. The PCs must break into a Museum, a Palace, A River Barge and a Temple.

Book 3: The Pyramid of Wa-djet (Level 7-8) Armed with the Canopic Keys the PCs must seek out the Pyramid of Wa-djet - designed to restore the long dead ruler's power to it's utmost. The PCs must brave a megadungeon in order to access the inverse pyramid of Wa-Djet. At it's deepest point the PCs face off against Wa-Djet's most fearsome guards and the king himself uses the power of the pyramid to throw the PCs back in time to the height of the corrupt king's rule.

Book 4: The Sphynx's Riddle (Level 9-10) The PCs are sent back into the Age of Destiny the PCs see Wa-Djet during the height of his rule. The PCs in the past watch the pyramid being built and are able to seek the help of the Sphynx who originally imprisoned Wa-Djet. The PCs discover that they are the key to imprisoning the corrupt Pharaoh.

Book 5: Time Tossed (Level 10-11) The PC's time gate throws the PCs into dangerous eras of Golarion's history, the PCs must restore these moments in Golarion history in order to return to their own time. Along the way gaining weapons and items that will help them in their final confrontation with...

Um, that sounds FRIKKIN AWESOME!


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Inspired by Gnome AP thread:

Fade To Black
Themes: Gnomes, bleaching, fey and the First World, daemons

Book 1: Smell Of Novelty (Levels 1-4) The PCs are asked by a middle-aged gnome Fizzix Bramblebreak to assist him in adventure - in the process they learn that he intends to stave his bleaching by experiencing excitement of adventuring. Together they overcome challenges of early adventuring life for some time, including defeating a coven of daemon worshippers. Fizzix decides to move to something else, apparently shaken by the final fight against venedaemon that lead the coven and his worshippers.

Book 2: Touch Of Joy (Levels 5-7) Before leaving the party, Fizzix gives them an introductory letter to his colleagues and business partners in the Vivid Valley - an area settled primarily by gnomes - with instructions to provide the group with reward for their help to him and recommends the PCs as seasoned adventurers. Happily the gnomes offer the party a series of tasks requiring them to solve multiple problems haunting the community, some of which are caused by local fey and influx of First World energies seeping through the ancient gate located in the Valley. The finale of this part includes standing against a minor fey lord - either through violence, ingenuity, deceit or diplomacy ending his reign of mischievousness and petty cruelty.

Book 3: Color Of Madness (levels 8-10) The party is send from the Vivid Valley to search for Fizzix, who, in his last few letters mentioned finding a possible cure for the Bleaching. The characters have to trace his current location, finding a few places where he did experimented with various methods of overcoming the gnomish curse. When they finally reach him, they find him in wretched half-deranged state coming dangerously close to Bleaching as malicious bleached gnome spirit (or maybe vile gnome-hating fey) slowly feeds on his life force and color.

Book 4: Whisper Of Hope (levels 11-13) After delivering saved but half-mad and very pale Fizzix to his brethern from the Vivid Valley, the party is tasked with retrieving three rays of the First World's sunlight, remaining in the possession of three highborn fey - each of the nobles has different attitude, desires and price. And each of them has different opinion about the way the party dealt with the fey and the fey lord during the Touch Of Joy.

Book 5: Taste Of Sorrow (levels 14-15) All is not too well in the Vivid Valley while the party was away. Fizzix managed to recover enough to try his mentioned before cure against bleaching. Regretfully it involved daemonic necromancy that drawn vitality (and color) from other gnomes in the settlement. When the party returns they find multiple nearly-bleached gnomes. They have to confront the culprit in a ruined castle surrounded by newly formed wasteland and stop him before the curse wrecks the settlement completely. With exposure to the captured rays of the First World sunlight the Fizzix regains his colors and sanity and his lingering taint and madness finally manifest as Sorrow, his own shadow, both literally and figuratively.

Book 6: Memory Of Home (levels 16-17) The final book is a race that pits the party against the Fizzix's released shadow and its daemon allies to the gate leading into the First World. Would they risk spreading the daemonic taint amongst gnomes and fey? Would they risk daemons corrupting the powerful energy flowing the First World? Will they manage to prevent massive taint of the Vivid Valley? Grande finale involves fighting against Sorrow and/or his daemons.


I am trying to think of Nex-focused AP (mainly nation, not archmage). It should probably involve a journey to the Mana Wastes and Geb somewhere in the middle, as well as lots of magic, political backstabbing and some planar involvement. Current composition of Council Of Three And Nine gave me hilarious idea of cult of Abraxas being on the side of "good" (i.e. the party side) with Pharasma priesthood in the opposite camp (helping Arclords push for continued war against Geb). Maybe I get a more clear idea of the plot later.


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Children Of The Revolution
Theme: perpetual revolution in Galt, political chaos, justice, law, corruption, profiteering, careerism

Book 1: Enemies Of The Revolution (Levels 1-4) The characters are prisoners of the current regime (campaign traits would be causes for their imprisonment) sent to work camp on the edge of wilderness where they have to struggle for survival and (potentially) befriend a young and idealistic revolutionary agitator Sardonne. While they remain imprisoned a change within the highest ranks of revolutionary government happens, leading to a visitation of the work camp by the newly appointed judge, Justice Renkrist, who is discerning validity of sentences and paroles the party and their friend together with some other prisoners, under the condition they will work for him as his agents.

Book 2: Servants Of The State (Levels 5-7) The characters now find themselves in the role of agents of the revolutionary government under the guidance of Justice Renkrist, fighting the enemies of revolution, counter-insurgents, bandits and monsters attracted by the ever-present chaos in Galt, while Sardonne becomes the judge’s assistant and secretary.

Book 3: Champions Of The People (Levels 8-10) Now, being tested agents of the government, the characters are given an extraordinary and secret task of locating “Red Kathy”, Final Blade stolen by forces unknown. They have to investigate the circumstances of the stealing, find culprits and bring them before justice, or deliver justice personally, as they see fit. Their search leads them to a group of worshippers of Pharasma that see the artifact as an abomination. The party has to make a choice how to deal with the good intentioned fanatics. Regardless of their personal feeling they are aware that the artifact has to be returned, one way or another.

Book 4: Traitors Of The Regime (Levels 11-13) A panicked Sardonne finds the party sharing with them his gruesome discovery that Justice Renkrist uses his position to issue death sentences against his enemies as he sees fit and conjures inevitable bounty hunters to execute innocent victims that manage to flee. What’s more, the judge now got Final Blade in his hands instead of relinquishing it over to Gray Gardeners as he intends to use it to prevent revival of those he wants dead. The party now has to elude attacks of his minions, including ever-vigilant Zelekhuts hunting them as fugitives from the justice. Their escape is crowned by a battle against a pair of Kolyaruts called to punish them for breaking bargain with the justice they made so long ago.

Book 5: Heralds Of Change (Levels 14-15) Before being defeated Kolyarut send against them by the justice spilled a crucial information that their bargain is voided once the justice is no longer in his office. Now, they have to find a way of exposing his corruption, while being hunted fugitives, no less. If they succeed, ex-justice Renkrist shows to be a sore loser sundering “Red Kathy” with The Sword Of The Law, a minor artifact that allowed him to call his inevitable servants in the first place. Shattering of the Final Blade banishes the trapped souls to pocket demiplanes connected to Axis and gives Renkrist an infusion of axiomatic power, with which he hopes to overcome his rebellious agents and ascend in rank even more.

Book 6: Bearers Of Justice (Levels 16-17) With Renkrist dead the characters have to undo the gravest sin the late justice done. They have to travel to the plane of Axis, gain access to prison demiplanes, witness the punishment inflicted on the victims and pledge on their behalf to their jailors. And they have to successfully discern those who were unjustly executed from those who were actually guilt of crimes they were accused of...

The Exchange

I really like the idea that the campaign traits are reasons for their imprisonment. People are always looking for good ideas regarding the old start the campaign as a prisoner cliche', and that's as good as I've heard. In addition to being an excellent role-playing hook, it also gives the PCs a reward of sorts for being in their predicament. Great ideas, guys. Keep em coming.

The Exchange

I came back to this thread for the awesome campaign ideas, and figured I'd give it a bump to see what folks come up with next. I think I'm going to give the Children of the Revolution idea for a spin for a campaign I'm putting together for the summer.

Liberty's Edge

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I tried to write my own Numeria AP but it turns out that writing an AP is a lot of work. I was forced to drop the project due to other requirements of my time and it strays a little far from the Numeria focus I originally intended, but here is the outline.

The Legacy of Sarkoris

Theme: Futuretech, war, conspiracy, demonic invasion
Locations: Numeria (primarily), Ustalav, Mendev, and Worldwound.

Book 1: The Rogues of Caliphas (Levels 1-4)
Hired seemingly at random the party is sent to restore order at the Havenguard Lunatic Asylum in Caliphas. Once inside, however, they discover that all is not as they were told. The madmen have taken complete control and an enigmatic conspirator sought out the party to imprison them. Breaking out of the madhouse reveals the identity of their captor as one Doctor Hedgerow. The party sets off on his trail delving deep into the underworld of Caliphas confronting Sczarni at every turn. A final assault on the Sczarni brings the party face to face with Hedgerow. It is then they learn that they have been set up to eliminate the Sczarni and that greater forces are at work than a criminal syndicate.

Book 2: Horror on the Hill (Levels 5-8)
The party ventures to Carrion Hill on the trail of the tiefling responsible for their ungracious capture and imprisonment. Digging deep in a land as twisted as Carrion Hill is bound to turn over some vile things. The trail of the tiefling conspirator uncovers a demon cult operating in the town. The party unravels the mystery and delves into the twisted ruins of the Old Cults beneath the Hill and finally confronts the one responsible for the conspiracy in Ustalav, a succubus named Deidre Gravetounge. The conspiracy, however goes much deeper than machinations in Ustalav. Gravetounge wielded strange technology and was one of many demons sent forth from a greater group in Numeria to bring war to Golarion.

Book 3: Tales of Blood and Steel (Levels 9-12)
With a demonic invasion imminent and a major demon cult operating in Numeria, the party crosses the border from Ustalav. The Numeran countryside however, is hostile and unforgiving. The party’s path brings them into the Scar of the Spider where they are forced to contend with all manner of strange metal beasts. Finally they flee into the labyrinth of valleys known as the Felldales and evade their mechanical pursuers only to find that the scarred land is no less hostile. When they finally make it through the Felldales they are set upon by a flying monstrosity that captures them and brings them to Starfall where they discover they are slaves set to compete in the arena for the pleasure of the Black Baron. The characters must battle for their freedom against all manner of monsters and machines to win their freedom and the ear of the Black Baron.

Book 4: To Catch a Fallen Star (Levels 13-16)
All is not well in the court of the Black Baron. The Lords are fractured along numerous ideological lines and none will listen to the threats of demonic invasion, believing their technology will keep them safe. The party must unite the squabbling lords and they make some progress all while rooting out the demons responsible for the political fracturing. To gather more support the party must venture to the city of Chessed where the remaining lords have traveled to form a new capital. Convincing the lords to return to Starfall is not easy but only the characters can reunite the nation. At the same time the party must strike at the heart of the demon cult operating in Scrapwall before returning to Starfall. Back in the capital Uvulaunt, the merilith responsible for the cult in Numeria, makes a provoking attack against the alliance of lords before retreating into Silver Mount. It is up to the party to delve into the strange dungeon and end the internal threat to Numeria.

Book 5: The Mendev Alliance (Levels 17-18)
While Numeria begins conscripting soldiers the party must ensure that a capable fighting force will be assembled in time. To protect Numeria the party is supplied with gold before traveling to Lackthroat where they must contend with cutthroat mercenaries and assemble a large army. Once the mercenary contracts are negotiated and paid the mercenaries move out to rendezvous with the conscripts in Starfall. Meanwhile, the party travels to Nerosyan to enlist the help of the Mendev crusaders only to find that Crusader Queen Galfrey has fallen under the sway of demons. In the process of seeking out the fiend responsible for claiming the Queen the party discovers that the demons seem to have been conspiring to draw Mendev into attacking the Worldwound. The party finally uproots and destroys the vrolikai demon Thornwing and his haunt of shadow demons, freeing the Queen. Once back in control of herself the Queen calls the Fourth Crusade and pledges her formidable armies to the cause. At the front of a great host of soldiers, the party travels to rendezvous with the Numeran forces in Aaramor.

Book 6: Usher of the Apocalypse (Levels 19-20)
The armies of Numeria and Mendev assemble in Aaramor under the leadership of the party but are assaulted by a demonic invasion before preparations can be completed. The horde retreats and the crusaders follow leaving a bloody swath as they fight hard, not stopping until they control the town of Storasta in the epic Battle of Sellen Valley. The crusade regroups and the party leads them north to the Worldwound where the main body of the demonic host is waiting for them. It becomes clear all too late that the bloodshed is just what the demonic mastermind Jal’kiri wants and the rupture in the fabric of reality grows and the Usher of the Apocalypse begins to push through. With the epic battle raging below the party charges into Jal’kiri’s Citadel of Chaos and clashes with the insane balor and the avatar of Deskari on the very edge of the Worldwound. Once Jal’kiri and the avatar are defeated the rupture snaps shut and the crusaders must flee or be sucked into the vortex. The demonic hordes are scattered and a relative calm settles northeastern Avistan.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I would love to post here, but I don't want to have any of my ideas up here incase I get to use them in RPG Superstar next year. :-P

Contributor

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I've toyed with the idea of dragons as a focus for a campaign before. It's, as the Paizo team has gathered, difficult to do without growing stale. However, I also think a dragon theme rather than a laser-guided focus on them is the way to go.

My propsal? Start killing the dragons before the AP even begins.

Why are dragons so rare? Well, unbeknownst to the majority of the world, they have been murdered systematically for ages now. Some unknown force has been killing dragons left and right for years under everyone's noses. For the AP, it, of course, would be some kind of evil super dragon that's been doing this. Ideally, it's some kind of new breed or alien dragon, making the reveal of the villain a bit more crazy and overwhelming.

The AP would begin with the death of the villain's latest victim, a brass dragon. Normally, the death of a dragon would go unnoticed. However, the brass dragon put up a fight and escapes its attacker, but not before being mortally wounded. The brass dragon crashes in the nearby countryside, leaving the PCs to investigate. The AP would go down something like this:

Blood of Legends
Theme: Dragons, war, world traveling

The Fall of Glory (Level 1-4): The death of a brass dragon in the immediate area has the PCs tasked with an investigation. Along they way, they find that the local wildlife has become corrupted by some strange force, causing it to become twisted and hostile. They make their way through the forest and through and abandoned mountain tunnel. The denizens in the pass have been reawakened by the same forces. After a treacherous trek, the PCs arrive to find the dying brass dragon. The dragon warns of a threat to to life on Golarion. It requests the PCs speak with Mengkare in Hermea about the circumstances.

The Price of Paradise (Level 4-7): The PCs must secure voyage to Hermea to fulfill the dragon's dying wishes. Once there, they must aid the people of Hermea in defeating attackers sent to destroy the nation. The attackers are led by a bitter Hermean-born woman who was banished from Hermea when she did not pass the initial citizenship test. There would be massive combats through the streets of Hermea as the PC's help fight off an invasion. Once the threat has been nullified, they are allowed to speak with Mengkare as a reward for their actions.

On Wings of War (Level 7-10): Having just earned a court with Mengkare, the PCs present the plea of the dying brass dragon. Mengkare is hesitant to aid the PCs in their quest. However, at this time, a dragon appears in Hermea, also looking for Mengkare's aid. This silver dragon also escaped an attack from our villain, but is relatively unhurt. The silver dragon explains what went down in the attack on his life and reveals the face of the villain. After hearing this, Mengkare agrees to work towards defeating their common enemy. The adventure would be mostly composed of the PCs travelling the Inner Sea region recruiting the aid of the others in the land for their cause. Along the way, they would discover that some of the other dragons are not so compliant and are actually agents of the villain.

Rescue Beneath the Steaming Sea (Level 10-12): With the help of a newly recruited copper dragon, the PCs learn of a dragon who may know the exact nature of the villain slaying the dragons. However, this dragon has been under captivity for centuries by the Aboleth down below the Steaming Sea. The PCs head underwater on a rescue mission to a lost Aboleth city. After fighting through various gillmen and underwater menaces, the PCs slay the necessary Aboleth and liberate the dragon.

Battle for the Sky (Level 12-15): Their latest ally comes in the form of a bronze dragon. This bronze dragon has been hot on the tail of the villain behind the attacks and has learned much about it in the past centuries. With newfound knowledge of their enemy, the PCs are chosen to lead the armies of the Hermeans and dragons against the remaining agents of the villian, including those dragons that have allied with the villian. The majority of of the AP is composed of large pockets of combat and includes segments of reconnaissance and sabotage with Avistan serving as the battlefield.

From the Shadow(Level 15-17): With the villian's armies defeated, it falls on the PCs to enter the realm of the villian and put an end to the looming threat. They are not without help, though, as any remaining dragon allies would join them in the fight. The make their way through a chaotic realm of shadow and alien landscapes. This AP concludes with a final push towards the villain and climactic battle against a dragon twisted by the energies of the Dark Tapestry.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Great Escape A link to an all halfling AP. For your enjoyment.


I'll come back at a less sleepy time and post more detailed stuff, probably, but I'd really like to see a mostly Urban campaign where the players can show a bit of moral ambiguity and such-like, kinda like Skull and Shackles.


I have a few plans for my own homebrewed campaigns.

Narrowing them down to six chapters would be tricky though. I tend to shoot around ten.

Liberty's Edge

Ive got one to put in, but after work tomorrow. dotting for now

Liberty's Edge

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ok here you go...

The Walker of The Fangwood

An Ancient Evil awoken by the triflings of Man threatens an already wartorn Region.

Location- Nirmathus, Molthune, & Lastwall.

Theme: Fey, Vampires, Wartorn Nations.

Module 1: Arrows In The Night Levels: 1-4 The Town of Kassen in Northern Nirmathus has all but suffocated by the choke hold some supposed Bandit Lord of The Fangwood. It comes to the party to investigate This Bandit Lord and find a way for the people of Besieged Kassen to be resupplied, before they all starve. The party rescues a merchant from river raiders and gains the attention of the council. It soon becomes apparent in their investigation and attempts to stop the banditry, that some other force is behind the Bandits. Rumors of an Ancient Awakened Evil, The Darklord of The Fangwood, One Time ally of Tar Baphon; an Ancient Vampire Lord may be behind this attempt to drive Humanity from the ancient woods.

Module 2: Tomb of The Darklord Levels 5-7. Following up on the rumors, the party locates, by way of a treaty with The Fey of the region, and enters the Tomb where the Darklord is rumored to be buried and held from re-awakening. A Classic Dungeon Crawl into a forgotten tomb and the party discovers that the Darklord is still there. Locked away for what should be an eternity. However they have stripped away the defenses of the tomb....At the end, they discover the Fey to have duped them hoping to send them on a wild goose chase that would end in their deaths...and they find out that the one behind the rumors of a Vampire Lord is none other that a Rogue Druid, once part of the Circle located at Crystalhurst. Now errant guradian of the Green allied with the Dryad Queen Atlantia, who is bringing The Blight to The Fangwood.

Module 3: A Circle Broken Levels 8-10. Heading to Crystalhurst, the Party must convince the Druidic Circle that their best interest lie in aiding the party in hunting down their Rogue Member. Not an easy task since they believe him to be a member in good standing. In Order to convince them, they must prove their intentions by journeying into the Ranger haven Chernasardo, and Convince Forest Marshal Weslin Gavirk to send badly needed forces away from The Molthune Border to aide in the Druids stopping the Darkblight. Of course Weslin cannot do this without first weakening the Assault Forces arraying at Fort Ramgate In Molthune, which falls upon the party to perform a guerilla raid of sabotage and destruction.

Module 4: Into The Darkblight Levels 11-12 The Circle convinced, the party is sent into the Darkblight to stop the Rogue Druid, No easy task since Dark Fey are allied with the false Vampire. When the very Forest itself seeks your death, how easy is it to move through the woods tainted by The Darkblight.

Module 5: Kassen No More Levels 13-14 The Druid stopped, the party returns to Kassen to find that The entombed Darklord has been freed by The Dark Fey, since his resting place no longer had defenses, and he has begun his assault on Humanity to retake his holdings. The People of Kassen are no more, but are merely his Spawn. The Vampire Lord of Fangwood has returned. He must be stopped before he overtakes Three Pines Ford in Lastwall.

Module 6: Source of The Darkblight Levels 15-16 The party's attention now turns to those very Dark Fey who seem to be the source of the Forests woes, and behind them Queen Atlantia and her Corrupted Dryads. Tjis will take into The First World of The Fey in order to heal the spreading Taint and save a soul on the verge of being lost forever to Evil. Atlantia must be saved.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Coridan wrote:
Hey gang take your best AP ideas and post them here so they become the intellectual property of Paizo!

Pass

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
GM_Solspiral wrote:
Coridan wrote:
Hey gang take your best AP ideas and post them here so they become the intellectual property of Paizo!
Pass

If you keep your ideas Golarion specific then there's no real harm, it's not like one could publish a Golarion AP.

Besides, it's not like a person can run out of ideas.

Liberty's Edge

besides, Id be flattered if they used my idea for an ap..and id love to see be able t run it/play it. Its not like I have the time to actually do it up right and publish it lol

I ran just that idea as a campaign a while back..but it was in Forgotten Realms and not in Golarion...

and I agree with dudemeister. i have a wealth of ideas..lolol


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I'm a sucker for themed titles, and have had this selection (though the actual list is at home, so I'm going by memory, a couple might be off) sitting around for years but never managed to do anything with it. The knee-jerk response is "time travel campaign" but that's tricky to do, so hey maybe someone else will come up with an interesting idea.

1. Moment of Silence
2. Seconds to Spare
3. Minutes to Midnight
4. Zero Hour
5. Last Days
6. Year of our Lord
7. Turn of the Century
8. Strange Aeons

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Contributor

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Orthos wrote:


1. Moment of Silence
2. Seconds to Spare
3. Minutes to Midnight
4. Zero Hour
5. Last Days
6. Year of our Lord
7. Turn of the Century
8. Strange Aeons

That's absolutely genius; it would be perfect for a game focusing on Time Thieves and travel between eras in the style of Chrono Cross.


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Not sure how much call there would be for a Chaotic Evil Sanndbox, but this is what im working on currently, and playtesting soon, as it is 1/3rd complete

KINGSLAYER ADVENTURE PATH : HEXPLORE YOUR EVIL SIDE

SUMMARY

For as long as any can remember the great Citadel of Gedallion has shone like a beacon holding back the darkness. The demonic hordes to the South have spent endless centuries trying to break down this bastion of good.

At long last they have succeeded.

With the citadel of Gedallion a smouldering ruin the abyssal led hordes of the Nations of Six are free to burn, pillage, destroy and wreak chaos and bring despair. As is their way they have immediately turned on each through petty squabbles, long held grudge and seething hatred for their own kind....though not all demon lords are like this. In the Southern most region of the Nation of Six a shrewd and patient demoness plots. Her name is Delaxzinia and she is about to unleash hell, or something akin to hell.

Delaxzinia’s hatred is not aimed at the humans to the North but rather a festering plague that has been a thorn in her side for as long as she has dwelt in this mortal realm, the elves. Now with their human allies broken and scattered Delaxzinia sees her chance to secure the great victory she has long coveted....the complete and utter annihilation of her most hated foe, and their High King, Uldranor II, lord of the Western Woods.

Through intrigue, tactics, warfare and grand strategy she will bring down the fey, and in their place will rise such a darkness and empire, that all beings, demon and men, will bow down before the great Delaxzinia.

ADVENTURE PATH SYNOPSIS

The PCs will start off as minions of a shrewd demoness. They will attack and destroy nearby enemy lands and begin to build their own foul empire. In time the PCs will get to a level of power where rival demons may threaten them, they may decide to overthrow their terrible mistress, or seek total dominion over the fallen human empire.

Module 1: Storm the Gates.
An adventure for level 1 to 3 chaotic evil PCs
The PCs are all chaotic evil servants of the Marilith Delaxzinia. They will be selected for a special assignment that is a prelude to a war against elves and their allies. The party, along with a few small armies, will infiltrate through a guarded valley, capture a few key strategic sites, before turning their attention to the keep of Angrewar that guards the valley. In the process they will find a number of key resources required for the war.
travel, hexploring, small settlement, mini dungeons, limited warfare

Module 2: Into the Breach
An adventure for level 4 to 6 chaotic evil PCs
The PC, now minor war leaders will begin an assault on the ancient elven forests. Their task is to strip them bare of their abundant resources and use them to begin to build their own base of operations and expand their fledgling settlement into a fortress for demonic hordes. The PCs will procure long sought treasures, fight an array of fantastical allies of the haughty elves, and raise their own legendary status as agents of the storm of chaos.
major hexploring, kingdom building, limited warfare

Module 3: Raze the Bastion
An adventure for level 7 to 9 chaotic evil PCs
The last elven keep, Taranbor is now surrounded by the demonic forces commanded by the PCs. They must plot its downfall while fighting off attempts to break the siege by the elves last remaining allies, the dwarves and gnomes of Clefterkan. Can the PCs hold their forces together and destroy the elven king, as talk of treachery begins to fester and rival demon lords look on with envy....or will the lieutenants of the night fall to their own kind.
some hexploring and kingdom building, lots warfare, 1 large dungeon

Module 4: Bring down the Walls
An adventure for level 10 to 12 chaotic evil PCs
The conquest of the Western Lands is near complete. Only the stout defenders of Clefterkan remain, though they have received help from a surprise ally. The PCs are now high captains and their renown seems beyond compare, for they are terrible to behold. Their once fledgling settlement is now likely a festering city of slaves, death and despair and many creatures flock to their unholy banners. Can they achieve total dominion to allow them to turn their attention to an even greater prize.
some hexploring and kingdom building, medium warfare, 1 medium dungeon, few mini dungeons

From here onwards the PCs goals and actions decide which of the final three adventures they wish to play, and in which order. Each is easily adjusted dependent on the PCs level when they begin the module. The PCs can complete one, two or three and in any order.

Module 5a: Six Become One
An adventure for level 13 to 18 chaotic evil PCs
The Nation of Six is campaigning against the dark heroes demonic patron and their own suzerain is under threat. Can the Scions of the Abyss destroy their former ‘allies’ and show them the true price of infamy.
some kingdom building, lots of warfare, several mini dungeons, several settlements

Module 5b: To Slay A Queen
An adventure for level 13 to 18 chaotic evil PCs
The Scions of the Abyss who began as mere foot soldiers now hold the key to ultimate power and rule. It is now time to overthrow the yoke of their former mentor Delaxzinia by capturing her kingdom and possibly pursuing the demoness into her inner sanctum in the broiling wastes of the Abyss.
limited kingdom building, lots of warfare, several dungeons, one settlements

Module 5c: The Burning Empire
An adventure for level 13 to 18 chaotic evil PCs
The ruined human empire of Gedallion throws up new revelations and this time the Scions of the Abyss wish to be first to the fight, and first to the rewards. Nothing will stand in their way.
limited kingdom building, lots of warfare, several mini dungeons, several settlements

Liberty's Edge

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This sounds fun.
I just posted in the "What APs you'd like to see" thread and really found myself musing on the idea of a full on war Adventure Path. You could do some fun things, such as showing how mass war is different in a world of magic. And it offers multiple excuses to use the Mass Combat rules from Ultimate Campaign. And stat-up orcs of almost every CR. Plus it's another opportunity to use the troop rules from Reign of Winter.

Drums of War

Hooks: An orc horde spills out of the Hold of Belkzen and into Varisia.
Themes:War, fear, sieges, refugees, mass combat
Background: Some force has united the feuding orc tribes into a single force.
Assuming Rise of the Runelords happened, the the giants of Storval Plateau have been reduced in power, with their best and strongest being slain or crippled. Suddenly, the orcs of neighboring Belkzen have an inroads into Varisa across the Cinderlands.

Book 1: The Coming Storm
The main hook could one of many things. Mining companies investigating the Kodar Mountains. Traders seeking contact with Shoanti. Or even Pathfinders investigating Thasilonian ruins. Regardless, the party comes across several ruined small settlements and outposts. Likely encountering looters or undead.
They investigate first encountering bandits and wildlife drive out of the wastes and mountains by the orcs before encountering the first scouting party. Following it back, the party sees the horde advancing westward. They flee to warn the villagers to the west that the orcs are coming. Since their scouts did not report back (or because the PCs were spotted) the orcs spends out a tracker tasked with eliminating any witnesses. The PCs have to elude or kill their peruser before he can kill them.

Book 2: Siege at Storval
The party spends the first half warning towns and Shoanti tribes of the incoming orcs. Likely a little free form as the party chooses where to go and when. They have to convincing doubting villagers, evacuate exposed towns, and find a short term location to house the refugees.
But the orcs know that the army was spotted and send a fast moving vanguard to sack the small villages before they can flee. Warned, the party has to hold the Storval Stairs until the villages can be evacuated.

Book 3: Rallying Cry
The first part of the adventure sees the party leading a band of refugees westward, doing their best to provide food, shelter, and safe place to rest while dealing with small orc warbands, unfortunate weather, and disease.
With the orc threat now known the call for troops has gone out. But the various city-states of Varisia seldom have large standing armies. Militias and the town guard are united in a Motley Crew. The party is dispatched to move quickly between the towns, aiding in the organization and seeing to the various needs a large army: weapons, armour, food, supply wagons,
But all the various nobles and wish to be in charge of the army leading to infighting and disorganization. The PCs have to deal with war profiteering, collaborators, and ambitious folks who see the war as a chance to end up rich or in power.
Finally, their small army organized, the party can begin to fight back, arranging small strikes against the orcs while using their own skills to assault strategic targets.
Savoring their victory, the adventurers are demoralized when they realize they've only defeated a fraction of the orc horde, with the rest heading southward to Kaer Maga.

Book 4: The Second Front
The book begins with the assault on Kaer Maga and invasion of Southern Varisia. The party has to do their best to save the besieged city. It's not a matter of winning but holding on against the initial assaults from the orcs war beasts, fighting fires, and stopping civil unrest.
Realizing Varisia cannot stand alone, and most of its neighbors are uninterested in helping or lack armies of their own, the adventurers have one option: beseech Lastwall for aid. If that nation attacks Belkzen it gives the orcs a war on two fronts. But convincing the undermanned and typically defensive Lastwall to take the offensive is tricky, especially when they have local problems (arranged by the forces leading the orcs). Once that has been dealt with convincing Lastwall to take up the fight is easier. The PCs lead the fight as the forces or Lastwall in sacking Urgir to get the orcs' attention.

Book 5: Turning the Tide
With Lastwall joining the war the party takes the role of generals marching against the enemy. Much mass combat ensues as the collective armies strike against the orcs while the PCs help with surgical strikes to grant their forces the advantage.
There are a number of other problems as the orcs attack supply lines, destroy bridges, and the like.
At the end of this adventure the party should be fairly high level, so we get to show exactly how much damage a group of high level PCs can do to a small army.
At the end of this book, the orc horde is scattered and demoralized.

Book 6: Decapitating the Serpent
Having routed and fragmented the orc armies their remains the figure that united the orcs. If they're left alive they'll simply have the orcs regroup and march again. The party much make its way through orc territory and the remnants of the army into the heart of the Hold of Belkzen, the General's stronghold outside of Blisterwell. The party has to fight their way through the General's elite guards and the defenses of the stronghold to defeat the orc's master once and for all.
What is the being that united the orcs? No idea. Just brainstorming this. The orcs were tricked by a dragon once, so it could be anything. Pick something cool.

Other Products
Current APs don't stand alone Player Companion and Campaign Setting books also being released.
This AP would be a good place to have a Hold of Belkzen and/or Lastwall book. There could be an Orc Slayer Player Companion as well as a Companion on being generals or the heads of armies, adding PC rules options (feats, archetypes, spells) that work with the mass combat rules.


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Since someone already brought up time travel, I may as well rambling something I've been playing with in my head. Because I love troperiffic sci-fi involving time travel, what better place to start than Numeria! Also, since time travel is extremely dangerous, I'd have the consequences ranging from splitting into a separate time line to reality going haywire itself! I won't deny it, Reign of Winter inspired the realm hopping aspect.

Tears through Time
Idea: A crazed cult wants to tamper with Golarion's past
Locations: Numeria, Aballon, Dimension of Time, Earth, Osirion
Themes: Espionage, Time Travel, World Hopping, Technology, Lovecraftian

1 - The Temporal Children
Sightings of a strange religious order have become more and more prevalent throughout Numeria, with similar magical items as the Technic League. As such, The league has been hiring well observed spies to keep a close eye on this new cult. However, most have vanished entirely. One was lucky enough to leave a clue, "Look beyond the Silver Mount, there is a prize as grand as time itself."

2 - The Automaton War
Now that you have made yourself known, the Church of the Temporal has taken shelter in Aballon's distant past. With your Starfall superiors gone, jump through the Demiplane of Time to find yourself on an alien realm within Golarion's solar system. For better or worse, find out the grim secrets that lead to the First Ones leaving their home. But take heed, some secrets are best unknown. Prepare yourself for the horrors of the Automaton War.

3 - Fall of a Union
Still ever frantic to get rid of their pursuers, the Church of the Temporal takes a trip to another distant world. The land in question visited by Golarion residents once before, Siberia. However, countless years have passed since Rasputin was stopped and a new regime is about to fall. Explore the Temporal's insidious research in a weathered Soviet compound beneath a dam in hopes on unearthing their dark agenda.

4 - The Once and Future King
After being disposed of by the Temporal, the team finds themselves in the court of a mighty king during a meeting. Being spared from certain doom, the king allows them to test their worthiness in hopes of being knighted. But, the corrosive influence of the Temporal will only make the goals of the Round Table that much more difficult. An adventure of Arthurian Romance!

5 - An Experiment in Madness
Still on the planet Earth, your travels have brought you to the fantastic urban expanse of New York City, 2027. Like in Aballon, strange gadgets fill the streets and take to the skies. In an ominous tower, a company's sign yields the same icon as the cult you've been so actively tracking. Infiltrate the compound and face terrors both mystical and technological!

6 - The Grasp of Nyarlothotep
The leader of the cult may be dead, but it's not over yet! The powers from the megacorporation have brought you back to Golarion, but at the wrong location and certainly the wrong time! Adapt to the ancient regime of pharaohs while tracking the Temporal cult's associates to find out the true evil behind this chaos. For if you fail, all of space and time are doomed to collapse.

(Well, I found out The Mummy's Mask is a thing, so looks like that last part is an impossibility)


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Gate to the East
Taldor wants to find a back route into the Empire of Kelesh - and the fabled lands that lie beyond. For sure it will be much easier to negotiate and trade with the emperor directly, instead of through his vassal state Qaidra. The adventurers are going to find this back route and establish a Taldan representation in Kelesh, Marco Polo style.

1: A bold plan
The adventurers have to obtain a detailed map of Casmaron, while keeping their plan secret from Qaidran and Taldan agents. (A city adventure)

2: To the horizon
With the map secured, the expedition can finally start: first sneaking through Galt undetected, then going east through Iobaria. (First part sneaking and subterfuge, second part wilderness survival)

3: Lords of the steppe
The adventurers have to earn the respect of the nomadic centaur tribes, in order to be allowed to proceed through their territory. To do this they investigate strange events that have happened recently.

Reign of Winter spoiler:
these strange events involve a group of foreigners who arrived in a chicken-legged hut, as well as a group of frost giants.

4: The lotus eaters
While crossing the Castrovin Sea, the adventurers are stranded on the shores of Iblydos. (Roughly re-telling parts of Homer's Odyssey)

In case you are wondering how to get from the Castrovian Sea to Iblydos:
Maybe a magic portal in the middle of the Castrovin Sea? This wiki page gave me the idea in the first place.

5: The fabled kingdom
Finally, our group reaches one of the northern satrapies of Kelesh. (Some fighting, some diplomacy, essentially a sandbox)

6: What lies so far behind
Their actions in part 5 have earned our heroes the emperor's attention. They meet him and he is quite impressed by their stories and open to everything they might offer. During conversation he passingly mentions that the satrapy of Qaidra is about to annihilate its northern neighbor country. When the heroes explain that this is their home country, he gives them a royal symbol and the authority to stop this war. The heroes teleport back to Taldor and, from there, infiltrate the enemy headquarters, find the Satrap, and order him to stop the attack.

Final twist:
There really is no BBEG for the heroes to kill at the end of it all.

Grand Lodge

Doting for interest. Good ideas in here!!


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I would love to basically see Night Below made into an adventure path. I would do an underdark AP for sure.


Paving the Road to the Abyss

Themes: Independence, Intrigue, Fallen Ideals

Location: Most anywhere

Book 1 Rebrith (Level 1-4) The PC's are long dead heroes raised by an artifact accidentally activated by the last surviving member of an expedition- a lowly squire- into a evil crypt. The heroes must keep the squire alive to make it out of the dungeon, and later, assist the squire in cleaning up his corrupt nation. Through their efforts, a league of demon spawn are pushed out of the nation.

Intrigue is light here, with the criminals being shown to be the most honest of thieves when stood next to politicians.

Book 2 The Rise of Hope (Level 5-8) Having rid the capital city of the major criminal elements, the patron squire (now prompted to knight), lends the heroes might against outside elements, striking against plots outside the nation. Intrigue thickens, and even successes can be turned against the patron knight.

Elements foreshadowed of the knight's fall from grace.

Book 3 Abyssal Paving Stones (Level 9-12) The heroes tasks become more and more questionable as their patron knight (now a lord of some rank) sends them on missions not to thwart the enemies of the nation, but to secure his own power. A rebellion begins to form, and the heroes soon find that their patron is no longer the innocent squire they rescued, but now an embittered power-mad murderer. This chapter ends with the patron lord disabling the king/queen/ruler, taking control of the nation as Regent, and sending the heroes to the gallows.

A kings shameful secret is revealed to the patron lord, forever destroying a hero in the squire's eyes. Examples of corrupt politics should be plentiful here.

Book 4 Called Again to Serve (Level 13-16) As heroes called back from the dead to defend their nation, the noose proves to be weak bonds for the PCs. Their former patron, having cut a deal with the very league of demons that the heroes cast out in the first book. Now laced with demonic magics with a nation in his iron fist, the heroes have their work cut out for them if they want to remove the tyrant they helped put into power.

Time to pick who the next leader will be, and don't be stingy with the wealth of bad choices.


Odraude wrote:

A little sad I never saw this thread before... well here goes:

The Final War

Themes: Colonization, Exploration, Politics, Apocalypse

Location: Arcadia, the Golarion's New World.

You'd have to convert from 4th ed but the Role Playing Radio New World game put out several .pdfs here: http://slangdesign.com/rppr/the-new-world-free-4e-dd-campaign-setting/


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd be adapting one of many home campaigns.

From a haunted house to dealing with eldritch invasions. I'd post more but would rather not have another IP stolen :)


Zero to Hero

"Welcome fresh recruits to the Pathfinder Society. You've come a long way just to get here. Give yourselves a hand. Now just the ladies. Now the men. Now the Red Mantis infiltrators... SEIZE HIM... Ah, where was I? Yes. You will now be assigned to a team of experienced agents for your final training in the field. Won't that be jolly good fun."

Book 1: Carrying Water
The PCs have just managed to join the ranks of the PFS. Their first assignment will be to follow/assist a group of high level NPCs who are off to raid the Dungeon of Scary Doom and Horrible Death. Naturally the PCs are not allowed to enter the dungeon, because of honor, but there's a war brewing in the region between the grippli and some fresh water octopus people (forget the name). The PCs are tasked with keeping the war from getting in the way of the NPCs.

Book 2: Fetch Quest
As a reward for a good review (or a punishment for a bad review) from the NPCs the PCs are sent on a much more important mission. Larsil "The Greasy" a prominent Pathfinder has died in a far off mountain. And a lot of people owe him favors, and his mistress has a lot of blackmail material. So off to retrieve the body. We don't know much about the area, he last sent a message from a village at the entrance of a valley near a semi-active volcano in the north. The PCs must trudge to the lands of the Mammoth Lords, get the suspicious villagers to guide them and brave the ghost estate of the snow queen, an Azlanti ghost, to retrieve at least 65 percent of larsil's body.

Book 3: It's a start
Now that the PCs are starting to show real promise, the Pathfinders have a much more important assignment, one of great personal glory as well: The society wants a new lodge, in an exciting place [need to find the right mix of horrible and plausible]. The PCs must guard their caravan to their new guildhall, clear it of dangerous vermin, furnish it with sutiable trophies (there's a very scary dire-chimera in the nearby wilderness, it's heads would look smashing on the wall). All before the NPCs from the first adventure arrive to judge the PCs efforts and drink their best wines.

Book 4: Get a job
Now that the PCs have a base of operations, they need to fund it as well as establish their (and the PFS's) reputations. Because their lodge is new and they are still themselves fresh to the organization, the PFS cannot afford to fund their hall now. But they can set up a sweetheart of a trade opportunity: The PCs will travel to Alkenstar to set up a new trade route for guns to move north, under the watchful eye of the Society. Exploration and new cultures. Gun running with much fewer laws to break. And do get some exotic monster heads or other tribaubles for your lodge, it's still looking dingy.

Book 5: The way things are done
My Word, you've risen this high in the ranks and haven't done a proper two week dungeon crawl? That's just not cricket. Lucky for you, your old friends and mentors have found rumors of a cursed Koloran ruin on an island far into the sea. They've even generously provided a teleport scroll, What great friends. The PCs will spend this whole book slagging through a mummy infested monument to the hubris, power and cruelty of the Koloran empire. Some of the more together undead can be dealt with but most things are for killing.

Book 6: Master of two worlds
With their reputations in high esteem, the PCs are given the honor of serving as a training lodge for the future of the society. Many of these students have found trouble fitting in before, but you seem like just the chaps to help a young drow woman learn our ways, it's worth a lot to the Society to get in with her parents, so don't mess that up. The PCs must keep a class of misfits, cursed and unpleasant students in line while defending them from a red dragon that seeks to eat one of them for a crime her father committed against dragonkind.


Clinton Boomer wrote:
Orthos wrote:


1. Moment of Silence
2. Seconds to Spare
3. Minutes to Midnight
4. Zero Hour
5. Last Days
6. Year of our Lord
7. Turn of the Century
8. Strange Aeons
That's absolutely genius; it would be perfect for a game focusing on Time Thieves and travel between eras in the style of Chrono Cross.

Chrono Trigger/Cross were actually partially the inspirations for it. Thanks =)

Still haven't thought of anything to do with it though.


What some friends and I HAVE done however is start working on a fan-written AP sort of thing. Here's a skeletal outline of what we have so far, maybe when it's done - which might be a long while, we are all fairly busy with out-of-game stuff - we'll post it up here for people to have a look-see =)

Chapter One: For Whom the Bell Tolls
Even in the thriving, adventurer-friendly city of [city name of your choice!], crime does not sleep. A notorious criminal has been taken prisoner and sentenced to death for his/her heinous crimes, including the most recent: burning down a full orphanage. The city's authorities fear their prisoner's allies will attempt to break him/her free before the day of execution comes; they've called upon the aid of the city's adventurer population to lend a hand in securing this villain and preventing any jailbreaks. But just how far will the dark side of the city go to save one of its favored sons/daughters from an experimental new form of capital punishment?

Chapter Two: Blood in the Water
[city]'s Docks are the city's seedy underbelly, where crime thrives, secrets are worth far more than their weight in gold, and blood and water flow mingled down the cobblestones. When a serial killer begins taking lives and leaving a trail of devastation through the most neglected part of town, heroes are tasked with taking the initiative and tracking this murderer down. But whispers of strange things already haunt this part of the city, and Docks District is no haven for heroes....

Chapter Three: The Red Death
[city] finds itself in a vicegrip of death. A murderous beast has taken up residence in the harbor: a killer shark of prestigious intelligence, or something far worse? And in Gates District, visitors to the city of ignoble blood find themselves prey to a flurry of vampiric assaults. Yet when a request for aid from an unlikely source comes calling, it reveals that there may be far more to these attacks than meets the eye....

Chapter Four: Ride the Lightning
A storm is brewing in [city]. After a vicious thunderhead passes, a series of attacks find victims horribly mutilated and burned by electrical attacks. Is the storm at fault, the conjuration of a mad druid or weather mage? Or is there an electric murderer on the loose? And is the growing fear of the people of the new execution technology founded in a misuse of this weapon of justice? Or is there something else at stake?

Chapter Five: Fear of the Dark
[Location] has always been rumored to be haunted. Tales of ghosts and poltergeists and worse lurking in its abandoned halls have persisted in Port Haven for ages. But when the old [building type] becomes suddenly more active, it demands investigation... especially when rumors that the cult activity that has tied together the last few killing sprees may be involved in this place plagued by the echoes of the dead. But how much of the strange house's new activity is cult meddling, and how much is the truth behind old tales of haunted houses and spooks in the attic?

Chapter Six: Nailed to the Chross
With their identities revealed and their plan about to unfurl, the cultist leaders have retreated into the dangerous and ever-changing Chross Labyrinth, a magically-infused, possibly-sapient maze that sprawls beneath [city]'s streets and sewers, where they and their followers plan to enact their most brutal killing spree yet, one that could spell the doom of not just people but [city] itself. The heroes must plunge into the labyrinthine depths and navigate the ever-shifting halls, seeking out the fiendish leaders of this murderous cabal, and deny the Boatman of the Styx himself a city full of souls.

Silver Crusade

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Orthos wrote:
...an experimental new form of capital punishment?

You have my attention good sir :3


Looking into incorporating some existing AP and 3rd party material into a campaign arc, leaving enough room for PCs to have side quests related to their backstories in between the "campaign arc-specific" modules.

AP is based around cultists trying to free Rovagug (requiring 5 keys)

Any suggestions for Cheliax-related material would be much appreciated.

Rovagug campaign progression

1 campaign story module every 3 levels, interspersed with 2-3 character-driven adventures/side quests/dungeon crawls/minor encounters with campaign story characters/exploration of campaign story background, etc.

Characters need gain approx 2 levels in between campaign plot modules.

Each key = 1 boss encounter

Need 5 "Chapter Bosses" and 1 recurring villain

Level 1-2 PC-driven adventures focusing on family ties/backgrounds
"Modules" to include PC-related homebrew and 3rd party adventures

Level 3-4 1st key - "Green Man" (homebrew module makes campaign arc explicit)
Additional "modules" to include PC-related homebrew and 3rd party adventures

Level 5-7 2nd key - Katapesh - House of the Beast (Book 2 from Legacy of Fire AP)

Level 8-10 3rd key - Cult of the Ebon Destroyers (PF module)? (Isle of Jalmeray - Vudra)
Additional "modules" to include PC-related homebrew and 3rd party adventures

Level 11-14 4th key - Cheliax to Nine Hells? "Key to Rovagug's prison created by Asmodeus"

Level 15+ Leading up to final battle at site of Rovagug's imprisonment
(Ruins of Ninshahur to Darklands to Pit of Gormuz?)

Motivation for each of the bosses?
Shared phylactery? (Each boss contributes, willingly or not, part of their soul as a tithe to Rovagug as proof of their devotion).
Benefits of membership - financial rewards, powerbrokering, revenge, actual belief in goals of Rovagug (destruction of the natural world (suicide?)), abuse of natural resources for power gain, eventual destruction of the gods).

Boss 1 - "I had no idea what I was getting myself into. They said it was just a token, a gesture, not something to worry about. They mocked me when I baulked at taking part in the ritual - didn't I want the power, the influence, the wealth?"

Boss 2 - "I have drunk deep from the cup of Rovagug. I have enjoyed the benefits of working in his name, and I regret nothing. I have lived, and I accept my fate in the world beyond for my deeds in this one."

Boss 3 - "I'm damned anyway. Killing me won't stop the return of the Rough Beast - if anything, you make him stronger! One more soul to fuel his wrath and break his bonds....."

Boss 4 - "Wait! I can help you prevent the cataclysm that is to come! I have knowledge of the final ritual that will bring Rovagug back into the world. Spare me and I'll tell you everything."

Boss 5 - "Yes! Finish me! His glorious return is at hand, and I shall sit with my lord at his right hand in the world beyond, when this one is destroyed! You fools have achieved nothing."

While I like the AP campaign structures in general, I feel that they inherently fail at allowing PCs room to develop in regards to having opportunities to pursue their individual interests/motivations (which I find is improved by having downtime, such as RotRL and Kingmaker).

This is not a criticism of the AP writing, rather the nature of having pre-prepared (read "on rails") adventure arcs, which is something I would like to try to minimise in this AP.

Shadow Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

It's a bit sketchy and needs some refining but here goes
The Shadow Within the Waters. Lvl 1-4
People are disappearing in the dockside: workers, homeless, ladies of the night and now the son of nobility. In a desperate bid it find him the players are launched into a battle with corrupt officials, a smuggler and a a terrifying ordeal against an insane Derro alchemist and his eons old master, a member of a species he'll bent on returning Golarion a once glorious era.

With Dark Eons level 5-8
Uncovering the research of the Aboleth the players are driven to explore a long lost ruin of ancient azlant. A journey taking them miles beneath the ocean to confront the Aboletg in their lair and unravel the schemes of this ancient nemesis. The problem is the aaboleth command a veritable army of slaves, soldiers and created abominations. Can our heroes forge an alliance with the beleaguered merfolk and overcome a menace that has waited countless eons to enact a deadly plan?

A Time for Weeping level 8-12
With the truth uncovered the heroes must race to find the location of the Aboleths secret hold, for if is here their enemy will enact a sorcery of terrible power. Drawing upon their feared magics to open a door the heart of the aboleths great refuge and calling forth the most powerful of their kind. The problem is that the only creature outside the aboleth who knows where the hold lies is utterly inane. A lunatic amongst the Drow, and he has forged a terrible alliance with the kyton. Can the heroes reach the heart of the Weeping Pit or will they become the latest experiment of a madman?

An Abomination in Blue level 12-14
With the location secured the heroes race to confront the Aboleth in their hold-a deadly labyrinthine complex deep within the dark lands. To reach the hold they must negotiate passage past a Duergar stronghold. Can the heroes reach the Aboleth, and even then can they possibly hope to prevent the return of a nemesis capable of changing the face of the world?

A God Among Mortals levels 14-17
The Aboleth plan thwarted, the heroes rejoice at their hard won victory. Yet all is not as it seems. Amongst the revellers a Veiled Master lays in wait, intent on destroying the meddling interlopers. She carries with her a secret that will plunge the heroes into a world of pain and horror. One of the great lords of the Aboleth has indeed returned and her intends to reforge a world.


Here's one that I just came up with while thinking about a Tian-Xia AP:

Adventure begins in Taldor, wherein a recent movement is underway to establish contact with the distant nation of Amanandar. The PCs are sent as diplomatic envoys (or guards of such).

The nation is only too happy to reconnect with its homeland, particularly if Taldor can send troops to assist with increasing attacks from neighboring Wanshu.

As they await reinforcements, the PCs diplomatic envoy is sent to better relations with Amanandar's other neighbors, notably Kwanshu.

Along the way, they discover the entity responsible for Wanshu's aggression, the kraken Zhanagorr, has ties to powerful Qlippoth lords and is working to open the Abyssal portals in Tianjiang.

The PCs must stop him from unleashing devastation on Tian-Xia and the world, but in order to do so, they must first travel to the undersea kingdom of Xidao to find the secrets to overcoming his awesome might!


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Came across Orthos's titles tonight at work and threw this together.

1. Moment of Silence

PCs serving as crew on an airship (roles dependent on campaign traits) whose owner is bent on retrieving the only two shells ever fired by the bombard known as the 'Great Maw of Rovagug' which just happen to be coated with a fortune of adamantine.

After flying out to the salvage sites, the crew must use limited-use crystals that supply magic power for spell casting in the mana wastes, ship-board weapons (ballista, cannon, bombard), or more exotic technology to fight off Barghests and Elementals, and even hold off a Sandkraken while the two masses of metal are loaded and secured.

With their airship loaded down with the 3 ton shells, the captain decides to take the airship to nearby Alkenstar for treatment of his injured crew only to discover that the sandkrakens they riled up and just managed to drive off are menacing the city!

The airship joins the fight alongside the Alkenstar navy to save the city, buying time while the ancient bombard is loaded. Once the sandkraken is finally defeated, the airship is commanded to land by the authorities; all aboard are charged with treason against the Duchy. In desperation, the captain attempts to flee, pursued by the state's ornithopters and airship.

2. Seconds to Spare

With no hope of outrunning the more nimble navy ships, the airship's captain must risk diving into the monsoon storms above the Mwangi if they hope to escape. Damaged and over-burdened, the airship suffers a hard landing in the jungle covered Shattered Range. When the survivors crawl from the wreckage, they find themselves in the ruins of a crashed Shory city.

The PC's must secure their surroundings while also searching for materials necessary for survival and anything that could help them repair their ship. Unfortunately their crash has not gone unnoticed by the local lizardfolk tribes. After a few skirmishes, the party finds itself beset by an enemy better suited to the sodden jungle environs and far superior in number.

Faced with a choice of a fight they can't win or a retreat into the depths of the unknown ruins below their feet, the party runs. It's a chase through strange architecture of mysterious purpose pursued by a thousand slavering lizardfolk! Down they go; dodging traps and ancient guardians to the very heart of the city. The ancient power source is there, fed by every drop of blood spilled inside the city - by every bit of chaos sown on the PC's harrowing escape.

Trapped atop the chaos engine; an innumerable influx of lizardfolk charging in from every direction! The ruins cannot support the weight of movement. The ancient engine cannot contain this new surge of energy. Seconds from death, the floor collapses spilling lizardfolk and PC alike into the Heart of Chaos!

3. Minutes to Midnight

When the darkness clears, the party finds themselves in ancient Azlant. Overwhelmed by the superior magic and arms of the storied empire, the PCs are conscripted and sent on a secret mission to spy on the Aboleths in the heart of their capital city on the ocean floor.

Intrigues clue the party to look deeper into a nihilistic aboleth cult in the tunnels beneath the Island of Azlant itself. With the help of a native Azlanti boy, the party makes its way through the subterranean labyrinth and finds the aberrations on the verge of completing an artifact of unlimited destructive potential! A foul pact meant to call an Elder God to wipe out the human's island nation is under way; powered by the ritual slaughter of scores of brought through the Chaos engine. The party has only moments to halt this unspeakable deed and seize the artifact.

The ceremony disrupted, the unholy item in hand, and the remnants of an insane cult on their heels, the PCs make their way back to the surface. Only the magic of the Azlanti can destroy the artifact now. But even as they attempt to sunder the idol, the plans of Aboleths and Elder Gods are in motion. With a great burst, the shards of the artifact explode outward, ripping the fabric of the universe and creating a growing rift that seeks to devour all around it. A shadow falls over the city. Something is blocking the sun. The ritual was not stopped in time. The starstone is coming

I'm out of time right now, but I'll flesh out the rest tomorrow night if work is as slow as it was tonight.

4. Zero Hour
Sucked into the rift created by sundering the artifact, the PCs have to traverse the plane of shadow. Along the way they will lose their Azlanti guide

5. Last Days
The PCs meet up with their guide from Minutes to Midnight, Eiradan, made immortal by the forces he has experienced, and help him raise the starstone.

6. Year of our Lord
The PCs arrive in 4605 and seek Aroden's help to return to their own time, but Asmodeus has different plans

7. Turn of the Century
The PCs must survive the Age of Glory that never was...

8. Strange Aeons
Trapped out of time, the PCs must free themselves and master the Fortress Time.


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Okay, I've done a little too much fleshing out of this idea now. Too much to post here all at once. If/when I finish each of the 8 sections, I'll start a new thread and just post up the whole AP.

The Exchange

Journey to the New World (exploration and pirate adventure) (working title)

BOOK 1: The Prince’s Prize. (1-3)
Prince Stavian of Taldor has commissioned a new exploration army and is sending out ships to explore the new world of arcadia. In this adventure the party will meet and be hired as deckhands for the long journey ahead. They will travel to the shackles to stop off and resupply before heading west inot the open ocean. What could possibly go wrong?

BOOK 2: Storms of the Sea (3-6)
The ship will toss and turn in the open ocean as the storms rage on. After weeks of no land a small island appears, and so do pirates and Chelish ships hoping to claim the new world as their own. The party must resupply and explore the tiny island before the other ships can overtake them, but they are not alone on their small refuge.

BOOK 3: Landfall (6-9)
After successfully escaping the cook pots of the pygmy cannibals and evading the other ships the party will finally get a glimpse of the new world. The southern tip of Arcadia. Upon landing they find a graveyard of ships a few miles inland where Chelish secrets are revealed the fountain of immortality exists! The other ships are hot on the trail. The party must sail around the tip of arcadia to the other side where they will find the mountains they must climb to find the fountain!

BOOK 4: Tomb of the Emperor (9-11)
Climbing the mountains reveals an ancient city built by a long dead empire. What lies in wait next to the party’s prize? The other captains finally catch up to the party but accidentally stir awake the locals and a fight for survival might force unlikely alliances.

BOOK 5: Once more into the deep (11-13)
After the truth about the ancient civilization is revealed the party must use the clues to search the massive island chain for the true fountain evading a beast unleashed by the ancient empire. Eventually the clues will lead to an Atlantis like city that must be found and explored.

BOOK 6: Showdown at Damnation Keep (13-15)
Once the party has successfully discovered the secrets of the sunken city they must now defend themselves and their knowledge from the hordes of pirates, Native Islanders, Merfolk, the beast of the deep and the Chelish Navy. After all, immortality is the prize.


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The Unraveling

Daggers in Diobel - A string of crimes have the local authorities confused, and to add to the confusion an strange statue has appeared in the center of town. When a group known as the Harbingers of Fate begin to sing old hymns about Aroden, the locals no doubt become confused. But when a string of murders start, the populace panics and tries to drive the worshipers out. They retreat to a small citadel under their control, vowing to bring about the Age of Glory. Level 1.

The Gilded City - After besting the Harbingers in Diobel, a letter on their leader reveals that they received their orders as part of a vision from a man named Aeroth Phylosoi in Oppara. Heading to the Gilded City the PCs must navigate the city and it's populace, from low ranking bureaucrats to a deranged former Lion Blade. It culminates in a duel from the famed city district Aroden's View against the man who ordered the murders in Diobel. Level 4.

Against the Blades - Racing back to Diobel, the party must bring news to the town's leaders to prepare against an attack from a band of mercenaries known as the Band of Blades. Calling on assistance from Absalom, the PCs are tasked to find the abandoned temple to Aroden that the Blade's leader is holed up in. But fears that corruption and turn coats in Diobel soon prove true. Level 7.

The City of Ascensions - After defending Diobel once more against the machinations of Lady Arodeth's mercenaries, the PCs head to the City at the Center of the World, Absalom, to seek assistance from the Pathfinders. There, they meet several Pathfinders with previous dealing with the Harbingers, but must assist them in retrieving a rare artifact connected with the Harbingers. Level 11.

The Westcrown Conspiracy - The PCs are now leading the chase after Lady Arodeth as she flees into the underground of Westcrown in Cheliax. The PCs must decide whether to side with Hellknights, a faction of rebels in Westcrown, or several noble houses as they scour the city in search of their foes and the devious schemes. Level 14.

The Fallen Empire - As the PCs narrowly save Westcrown, they now lead an expedition to the fallen continent of Azlant. There, they must end a vile ritual that if completed could undo reality, or at the least cause chaos not seen since the death of Aroden just a scant century earlier. Level 16.


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It seems someone was kinda inspired by DM_aka_ Dudemeister's The Riddle of Osirion.


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kadance wrote:
Okay, I've done a little too much fleshing out of this idea now. Too much to post here all at once. If/when I finish each of the 8 sections, I'll start a new thread and just post up the whole AP.

You Have My Attention.


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Name: The King's Footsteps

Theme: Kaiju/Monster Slaying/Resource building

Location: Varisia

Book 1: The King's Footsteps

When King Mogaru a fearsome Kaiju passes through Magnimar, it leaves destruction and death in it's wake. A group of Adventurers personally affected by the tragedy band together to slay the beast but first they must rebuild the city and then help protect it from the horrors that have escaped from underneath the city.

Book 2: The Reflective horror

Tracking Mogaru across Varisia the group discover the beast has suddenly changed direction and is heading towards the small town of Sandpoint. Overtaking the monster the group has to help the town ready it's defences but not before discovering that perhaps there is something even more dangerous than Mogaru just off the coast, a new kaiju born as a result of the glass works...

Book 3: A storm of scales

Mogaru has crossed the ocean and is heading to the Devil's Punchbowl an island home to a family of ancient dragons. What business does the King of the Kaiju have there and can the PC's potentially get the ancient Dragons to side with them on their quest to kill the king of all monsters?

Book 4: Of Kaiju and Men

With Mogaru returning to the coast the PC's are contacted by the Pathfinder Society who have been following their quest. They claim the monster is being used by some outside force that is making it attacking both enemies and other Kaiju. to understand more the society take the PC's to a temple of an ancient civilisation that worshipped them, there the group will discover the history of Mogaru and the identity of the group controlling him.

Book 5: Mogaru vs the World

Why has Gozreh the god of nature seized control of Mogaru and sent him on a mission of destruction against the cities of man? The quest takes a turn as nations must form alliances and an army must gather to destroy the King of Monsters and you'd be surprised who offers to stand with the PC's from Gods to Devils how the army is build affects the fate of the world.

Book 6: Mogaru Unbound

Free from Gozreh's control the King of the Kaiju is free to bring forth his vengeance. The PC's are now stuck in the situation where they can either ally with the mighty beast to fight a god or take on the mighty beast in one final showdown. Either way with Mogaru unbound Golarion will never be the same again...

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