Paizo needs to release a mount / animal companion book


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Does anyone else feel the character classes with companions could stand a little extra love? The cavalier is truly limited in flavor and use by the current selection, not to mention ranger and paladin. I went to make a dwarf cavalier the other day and was pretty unhappy with the fact the bear topped out at medium without house ruling it to grizzly from the book stat. Who wants a dwarf on a horse? Horrible for flavor and general RP. It make no sense that you can have a large wolf, but get saddled with a medium bear.

So, to make a long story short we could benefit from an expanded mount/companion selection. The beast need not even be new if they provided the stats for progression so they would be legal for PFS play. What do you folks think?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Couldn't agree more. A concise clarification on animal companions and mounted combat with expanded rules would be nice also.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Agree 100%

The game needs such a book much more than a new race book in my opinion. I think we are now up to 6 classes (oracle nature, paladin, cleric animal domain, cavalier, ranger, druid) with the animal companion feature, two of which with int 6 mounts (oracle nature, paladin)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm hopeful that there will be some coverage in Ultimate Combat, but I would love to see "Warbeasts of Golarion" as a Player Companion.

New animal companions, including the dire boar companion talked about in Orcs of Golarion.
New magic items and equipment for animal companion (aquatic saddles, claw sheaths, jousting barding)
New archetypes for advanced companions (like the Sable Company Marine)


I am hoping that Ultimate Combat will cover some of these issues also, but a Player Companion or similar publication would be awesome. They also need to fix the fact you can buy a riding dog for 150, but aren't allowed to have it for halfling cavalier till 4th level. Cavalier needs less restricted mount choices to make them always viable characters.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Agree 100%

The game needs such a book much more than a new race book in my opinion. I think we are now up to 6 classes (oracle nature, paladin, cleric animal domain, cavalier, ranger, druid) with the animal companion feature, two of which with int 6 mounts (oracle nature, paladin)

Make that seven with the addition of the Mounted Fury Barbarian. Who wants a ferocious pony? I when I think of a mounted barbarian it is on the back of an equally furious animal, like a woolly rhino or something.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Bilbo Bang-Bang wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Agree 100%

The game needs such a book much more than a new race book in my opinion. I think we are now up to 6 classes (oracle nature, paladin, cleric animal domain, cavalier, ranger, druid) with the animal companion feature, two of which with int 6 mounts (oracle nature, paladin)

Make that seven with the addition of the Mounted Fury Barbarian. Who wants a ferocious pony? I when I think of a mounted barbarian it is on the back of an equally furious animal, like a woolly rhino or something.

Maybe the ferocious pony is in truth a.... PONYCORN!!!! :)

Silver Crusade

Robert Little wrote:

I'm hopeful that there will be some coverage in Ultimate Combat, but I would love to see "Warbeasts of Golarion" as a Player Companion.

New animal companions, including the dire boar companion talked about in Orcs of Golarion.
New magic items and equipment for animal companion (aquatic saddles, claw sheaths, jousting barding)
New archetypes for advanced companions (like the Sable Company Marine)

"Warbests of Golarion" Player Companion.

*New Animal Companions and Mounts. (List all the animal companions in one place. And add 5 to 10 New ones. There stat blocks are small so they might be able to add more.)
*New Tatical Feets for players and Animal Companions to help them bond to gether and fight as one. (Tatical Feets only avable to classes with animal companins or mounts. And for the animal companions and mounts of the classes.)
*New Items and Magic Items for mounts. (This hase needed done for a long time.)
*New rules for magic items slots for animal companions. (This needs done bad. Even if they don't come out with this. This is such a large hole in the rules. It's about time it gets filled in. There are stated slots for humans, but there animal companions or mounts? Every DM needs to house rule this. It realy hurts for PFS play the only thing mounts are alowed is bardering, and a few other items.)

The problem I see is it is limited in how meny people will buy it. As it only affects a few classes. Now I'll buy it. There will need to be a big call for this item for them to make it. Spread the word and have people post here. Try and get this thread up to 1,000 post and they might just make it.


You're right....but MAN would I buy it. Esp if it offered new options for existing companions, instead of just new companions(or maybe had a PRC that a decent companion familiar)

Silver Crusade

Velderan wrote:
You're right....but MAN would I buy it. Esp if it offered new options for existing companions, instead of just new companions(or maybe had a PRC that a decent companion familiar)

New options for existing companions. Like what? I feal the best way to handle new options for existing companions. Is the tatical feets for player and animal companion. With out haven to remake existing characters.

Im not big on PRC. They normal lack in cruncy bits compared to base classes. It's not so much optimization. As it is not all groups play with high point buy. My group runs with 15 point buy. There are not going to be any realy powerful characters. That can do every thing.


Bilbo Bang-Bang wrote:

Does anyone else feel the character classes with companions could stand a little extra love? The cavalier is truly limited in flavor and use by the current selection, not to mention ranger and paladin. I went to make a dwarf cavalier the other day and was pretty unhappy with the fact the bear topped out at medium without house ruling it to grizzly from the book stat. Who wants a dwarf on a horse? Horrible for flavor and general RP. It make no sense that you can have a large wolf, but get saddled with a medium bear.

So, to make a long story short we could benefit from an expanded mount/companion selection. The beast need not even be new if they provided the stats for progression so they would be legal for PFS play. What do you folks think?

I also agree completely

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The up-coming issue of Kobold Quarterly has an article on animal companions and animal cohorts that might be of interest (there just might even be a new magic item)

Grand Lodge

Agreed. However, a good alternative can be found HERE

A pretty decent book on mounts, doesn't cost a lot, and not much conversion needed.

Plenty of copies still on Amazon.

Scarab Sages

This would be cool. I'd purchase a book like this.

Silver Crusade

Michael Brock wrote:

Agreed. However, a good alternative can be found HERE

A pretty decent book on mounts, doesn't cost a lot, and not much conversion needed.

Plenty of copies still on Amazon.

Only two problems. What if your DM dose not alow 3rd party materal? What if your doing PFS play?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Robert Little wrote:


New archetypes for advanced companions (like the Sable Company Marine)

THIS, yes!!! whether they put out an Animal Companion book or not, I really hope that one day Paizo puts out starting/advancement stats for non animal "typical" D&D mounts, like they did for the SABLE COMPANY MARINES!

top picks:

griffon
unicorn
pegasus
dragons (all)
grizzly bear
polar bear
giant/dire boar
dragonne (revised version; bonus bestiary version is too confusing)

for small riders:
blinking dog

feel free to add to the list!


calagnar wrote:
Velderan wrote:
You're right....but MAN would I buy it. Esp if it offered new options for existing companions, instead of just new companions(or maybe had a PRC that a decent companion familiar)

New options for existing companions. Like what? I feal the best way to handle new options for existing companions. Is the tatical feets for player and animal companion. With out haven to remake existing characters.

Im not big on PRC. They normal lack in cruncy bits compared to base classes. It's not so much optimization. As it is not all groups play with high point buy. My group runs with 15 point buy. There are not going to be any realy powerful characters. That can do every thing.

Tactical feats are fine. Even teamworks feats (if they're actually worth using). Right now, it's a bit difficult to make a pet-based character that isn't a summoner.

I forget who I'm quoting here (somebody from this forum) but PRCs are just another tool. Some things should be base classes, some things should be archetypes, and some things should be PRCs. Personally, I'll admit to preferring archetypes (most 3.5 PRCs exist just to swap out class features anyway) but I can think of a few PRCs that I don't think would've made decent archetypes (mostly multiclass based prcs).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Personally, while I can see using archetypes for magical beasts and larger animals, I think dragons probably require a prestige class to have as a companion. They are much more involved and powerful than any other possible companion, and would require a dedication above just losing a few class features to balance out. On the other hand, I could see drakes as a more viable option for an archetype companion.

Liberty's Edge

Aberzombie wrote:
This would be cool. I'd purchase a book like this.

I'm in. I have found companions to be really lacking in PFS. I would like to think that PFS team realizes there are unanswered questions since they added a section in the latest guide to clarify some of this issues. Lets hope we can some fuel to the fire.

Scarab Sages

I'd love a book like this! "Warbeasts of Golarion" FTW!!


Robert Little wrote:
Personally, while I can see using archetypes for magical beasts and larger animals, I think dragons probably require a prestige class to have as a companion. They are much more involved and powerful than any other possible companion, and would require a dedication above just losing a few class features to balance out. On the other hand, I could see drakes as a more viable option for an archetype companion.

Yes but a dragonrider would make a great PrC. Would work best as a level 12 PrC with five levels I think.


@Purple Dragon Knight

It is funny you mention the giant boar, because it gets mentioned a couple times in a couple of the other publications, but it is not really a choice. Everytime I see a Warhammer mini Dwarf Cavalry on a Grrizzly I get jealous, hahaha. Same for the Orcs on boars.

Dark Archive

It wouldn't hurt to have one and maybe we could get some better options and uses for our mounts/companions.

Liberty's Edge

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Robert Little wrote:


New archetypes for advanced companions (like the Sable Company Marine)

THIS, yes!!! whether they put out an Animal Companion book or not, I really hope that one day Paizo puts out starting/advancement stats for non animal "typical" D&D mounts, like they did for the SABLE COMPANY MARINES!

top picks:

griffon

If you'd like to see a griffon as a mount, you might want to check out Advanced Options: Cavaliers' Orders from Super Genius Games.

It presents 6 new orders for cavaliers, one of which is the Order of the Griffon. Cavaliers of this order get a griffon for a mount and I think the method of having (and advancing) the griffon is pretty cool :)

Even if you are not playing a cavalier, you could import the griffon mount rules into your game and even use them for other such mounts :)

>>>>> Advanced Options: Cavaliers' Orders

Dark Archive

Yes I totally agree, my Drow anti-paladin needs feats for his phase spider mount.

I've mentioned that the feats in both monster books are copied and new feats are totally mentioned. But for the paladin instance it states...
"At 11th level, the mount gains the celestial template and becomes a magical beast for the purposes of determining which spells affect it"
... But not too many feats address or compliment creatures based on type or template. Like adding fire to the natural attacks of a fiendish creature.

And feats should be out for certain creatures and people who wish to get creatures, like feats that require the bonded mount or animal class feature and at a certain level you can add a template to your companion. Or expanding the list of available companions like how improved familiar expands the link for familiars.


Bilbo Bang-Bang wrote:

Does anyone else feel the character classes with companions could stand a little extra love?

... So, to make a long story short we could benefit from an expanded mount/companion selection. The beast need not even be new if they provided the stats for progression so they would be legal for PFS play. What do you folks think?

Couldn't agree more. Such a book (3rd party or by Paizo) would be very popular with my gaming group.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Another vote for such a book.

Druids, Rangers and Paladins have a companion / mount feature. Ditto Clerics with the Animal Domain. Wizards (and some Sorcerers) add familiars to the mix. Then there's the APG classes, with mounts (Cavaliers), familiars (Witches) and eidolons (Summoners).

And *anyone* can take a few ranks in Handle Animal, and perhaps the Mounted Combat feat, and use it in conjunction with a warhorse or riding dog, or even a beefier sort of critter.

Ultimate Companion could also deal with rules for Leadership (cohorts and followers), hirelings and henchmen, animated undead, planar allies and bound critters, golems / homonculi and other constructs, etc. Any sort of secondary character that can accompany a primary character, from a Druid's Companion to a hireling valet that tags along with a character and cooks his meals and fluffs his pillow, could benefit from this sort of book, making it usable for pretty much anyone, even if their base class doesn't include a companion / mount / familiar / eidolon feature, or spells like animate dead or planar ally.

Specific guidelines for applying templates to summoned creatures would also be a good fit for this sort of book, as the summon monster and summon nature's ally spell lines also fit the theme of secondary characters, even if they are more temporary than those gained through class features (or the Leadership feat).

*

After that, I wouldn't mind seeing an Ultimate Gear book that includes not just some new items of equipment, but also some developments in equipment, such as exanded (or just flat-out rebuilt!) crafting rules to allow for some sort of superior masterwork equipment, or improved alchemy concoctions to make non-magical gear at least relevant at mid levels. Less 'ten new types of polearms' and more 'how to build a better longsword' or 'how to brew up alchemist's acid that isn't a waste of an action.'

Liberty's Edge

Set wrote:

Another vote for such a book.

Druids, Rangers and Paladins have a companion / mount feature. Ditto Clerics with the Animal Domain. Wizards (and some Sorcerers) add familiars to the mix. Then there's the APG classes, with mounts (Cavaliers), familiars (Witches) and eidolons (Summoners).

And *anyone* can take a few ranks in Handle Animal, and perhaps the Mounted Combat feat, and use it in conjunction with a warhorse or riding dog, or even a beefier sort of critter.

Ultimate Companion could also deal with rules for Leadership (cohorts and followers), hirelings and henchmen, animated undead, planar allies and bound critters, golems / homonculi and other constructs, etc. Any sort of secondary character that can accompany a primary character, from a Druid's Companion to a hireling valet that tags along with a character and cooks his meals and fluffs his pillow, could benefit from this sort of book, making it usable for pretty much anyone, even if their base class doesn't include a companion / mount / familiar / eidolon feature, or spells like animate dead or planar ally.

Specific guidelines for applying templates to summoned creatures would also be a good fit for this sort of book, as the summon monster and summon nature's ally spell lines also fit the theme of secondary characters, even if they are more temporary than those gained through class features (or the Leadership feat).

*

After that, I wouldn't mind seeing an Ultimate Gear book that includes not just some new items of equipment, but also some developments in equipment, such as exanded (or just flat-out rebuilt!) crafting rules to allow for some sort of superior masterwork equipment, or improved alchemy concoctions to make non-magical gear at least relevant at mid levels. Less 'ten new types of polearms' and more 'how to build a better longsword' or 'how to brew up alchemist's acid that isn't a waste of an action.'

I would love both of these books until they fell apart and I had to buy new ones. And then I would buy new ones and love those as well. The Ultimate Gear book sounds amazing, and I really hope they do it.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd buy one.

I don't need 82 billion additional mounts/companions/familiars but additional rules and options for them would be good.

Options like:

A formal system for folks who don't get companions to do so. Or to upgrade them. A sorcerer should be able to use a combination of familiar and animal companion mechanics for his "friend" if he pays the right feats.

Mechanics to ease the burden of having a companion. Teleport just became available? Great. Unless you've got a companion in which case you wait 3 more levels to add the extra body. Or stick it in an bag of holding. I've got house-ruled "companion bracelets" that help with stuff like this but that's house.

Stuff like that. Feats, magic items, spells, goodies for and about our furry little friends. That I'd pay for.

Shadow Lodge

@ Bilbo - Your dwarf on a grizzly got me thinking of an idea a friend of mine had a while back.

Dwarf (any class w/ hvy armor) in Stone Full Plate riding an ankylosaurus! :D Just t hethought of that always makes me laugh (if I was playing that guy) and cringe for anyone opposing the dude!


I ride a wooly mammoth into battle!

Fear me!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

That'd be cool. Maybe it could include a character sheet type thing for them too...

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
That'd be cool. Maybe it could include a character sheet type thing for them too...

Like THIS ONE? :)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Marc Radle wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
That'd be cool. Maybe it could include a character sheet type thing for them too...

Like THIS ONE? :)

Yeah, but I can't be a true fanboy unless it says Paizo at the top...


Anyone think that this thing will ever happen? Are there any third party books out there that cover this subject?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sebastian wrote:
That'd be cool. Maybe it could include a character sheet type thing for them too...

Isn't there a companion sheet in Ultimate Magic?

Silver Crusade

There are a few 3rd party books. The problem is not all 3rd party books are very well done. It's kind of a hit or miss on most of them. The only one I have found thats worth very much is Zoologica I: Dogs by 4 winds fantisy gaming. There might be some more out there. I have not seen them however. And I have wasted alot of money on 3rd party products. That are just not well done, and no where near balanced enough to alow in my games.


calagnar wrote:
There are a few 3rd party books. The problem is not all 3rd party books are very well done. It's kind of a hit or miss on most of them. The only one I have found thats worth very much is Zoologica I: Dogs by 4 winds fantisy gaming. There might be some more out there. I have not seen them however. And I have wasted alot of money on 3rd party products. That are just not well done, and no where near balanced enough to alow in my games.

I agree with that statement and even when they are done well enough to allow, the fit and finish isn't there in regards toart and such. Another problem is that since they aren't from Paizo a lot great ideas just can't be used in Society play.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hmmm "Warbeasts of Golarion" or "Ultimate Companion"... I like the latter title better... but either way I think the idea/concept is COOL and in need of publication.

Many of the posters before me have already cited a lot of very good reasons for making such a supplement... the variety of classes that have a mount/companion option is one of the main reasons I agree with.

I'd purchase such a supplement if it became available.

~Dean

Silver Crusade

I don't see it haven enough content for a hard cover "Ultimate Companion". I'm thinking more along the lines of Player Companion "Warbeast of Golarion".

This song makes me want to make a cavalier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLcmbHe1Axw&NR=1


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well lets also include all animals, familiars and items for them. Feats for them and for their master. more talky talk on what happens as an animal's int increases uses for anthropomorphic animal.. etc.

its important for paizo to make this stuff cause many DMs won't allow 3rd party stuff (because it is unholy or something)..

Dark Archive

I have always disliked how fragile regular mounts like horses and dogs were. It almost turns them into a disposable resource. Every fireball and lightning bolt and other area effect will nearly if not actually one shot kill them. I just lost my riding dog Sedgewick at Origins from a one shot explosion from full hp to neg con. I felt so odd that Sedgewick had been through chronicle 2 up to 17 and never gained a single hp. Meanwhile, his Eidilon progressed from 1 to 5 hit dice. I would love stuff to increase their survival. It does not even have to contribute to offence. Just some more hp and saves would be nice. Animal conpanions, familiar, eidolons, special mounts. I would love to buy a Paizo book of such.

I heavily agree a real equipment book is also needed.


[QUOTE
for small riders:
blinking dog

OH my My halfling cavalier SO wants a Blink dog mount .


...and another vote.

And clarification on what slots tyical animal types have for equipment explicitly laid out, and relevant 'animal' magic items developed.

Oh and the capacity to HAVE A LARGE BEAR!

I can't believe RANGERS don't get (the ubiquitous and iconic) Bears at all (yet a dinosaur is ok) unless they choose Beastmaster...!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

This is me tossing in my vote for an animal companion/mount Player Companion.


No offense, but I'd much rather a rewrite of the mounted combat rules than new material. As they are now, they require a LOT of house ruling to function at all (much less in ways that make sense). Especially with the Cavalier class, which has so much emphasis on mounted combat, you'd think someone at Paizo would have noticed how much of a headache is presented by the current mess of rules.

If such a rewrite were ever to be published (I won't hold my breath), a book like this would be a logical place to put it.


calagnar wrote:

"Warbests of Golarion" Player Companion.
*New Animal Companions and Mounts. (List all the animal companions in one place. And add 5 to 10 New ones. There stat blocks are small so they might be able to add more.)
*New Tatical Feets for players and Animal Companions to help them bond to gether and fight as one. (Tatical Feets only avable to classes with animal companins or mounts. And for the animal companions and mounts of the classes.)
*New Items and Magic Items for mounts. (This hase needed done for a long time.)
*New rules for magic items slots for animal companions. (This needs done bad. Even if they don't come out with this. This is such a large hole in the rules. It's about time it gets filled in. There are stated slots for humans, but there animal companions or mounts? Every DM needs to house rule this. It realy hurts for PFS play the only thing mounts are alowed is bardering, and a few other items.)

The problem I see is it is limited in how meny people will buy it. As it only affects a few classes. Now I'll buy it. There will need to be a big call for this item for them to make it. Spread the word and have people post here. Try and get this thread up to 1,000 post and they might just make it.

100% agree.


I do need 82 billion additional mounts/companions/familiars and additional rules / rules clairifications, options, spells, and items for them would be good.

I would buy this!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bilbo Bang-Bang wrote:

Does anyone else feel the character classes with companions could stand a little extra love? The cavalier is truly limited in flavor and use by the current selection, not to mention ranger and paladin. I went to make a dwarf cavalier the other day and was pretty unhappy with the fact the bear topped out at medium without house ruling it to grizzly from the book stat. Who wants a dwarf on a horse? Horrible for flavor and general RP. It make no sense that you can have a large wolf, but get saddled with a medium bear.

So, to make a long story short we could benefit from an expanded mount/companion selection. The beast need not even be new if they provided the stats for progression so they would be legal for PFS play. What do you folks think?

Some materaial on this might be good. I don't think it merits a book by itself though... Perhaps as supplemental for a future Bestiary.


Bilbo Bang-Bang wrote:

Does anyone else feel the character classes with companions could stand a little extra love? The cavalier is truly limited in flavor and use by the current selection, not to mention ranger and paladin. I went to make a dwarf cavalier the other day and was pretty unhappy with the fact the bear topped out at medium without house ruling it to grizzly from the book stat. Who wants a dwarf on a horse? Horrible for flavor and general RP. It make no sense that you can have a large wolf, but get saddled with a medium bear.

So, to make a long story short we could benefit from an expanded mount/companion selection. The beast need not even be new if they provided the stats for progression so they would be legal for PFS play. What do you folks think?

I would buy a Animal Companion/Mount book.

If there not enough materials with just animal companions and mounts for a whole book, they could also cover familiars.

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