Seeking "White Necromancer" Mechanics Sources


3.5/d20/OGL


I have a Player interested in possibly developing a White Necromancer for our upcoming Campaign Arc.

I'd appreciate any suggestions for rule books, feats and spell list/descriptions that would be beneficial for someone interested in the non-Evil aspects of necromancy, research of undead and related topics other than just becoming a zombie-nuker.

The group currently has access to PH 3.5, PF-CR, Magic of Faerun and Spell Compendium. I think that MoF and SpC both really helped with Necromancers' specialized spell lists, but the focus on "White" necromancy still remains difficult. I haven't had a chance to look into Libris Mortis, but am inclined to believe it still leans to the dark side.

Thanks in advance,

Rez

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

It might help a little if you more clearly defined what kinds of things you're looking for. Necromancy on the whole, of course, deals with the manipulation of life energies, generally in a degenerative fashion. So while spells like vampiric touch and horrid wilting aren't actually "evil" (they do not bear the descriptor), they certainly aren't what I would consider "white" necromancies either.

What kinds of spells/abilities currently exist that fit your definition so that we have a little more to go on with this?


Fatespinner wrote:
What kinds of spells/abilities currently exist that fit your definition so that we have a little more to go on with this?

Not really sure.

So far what I have from the Player is:

"An attempt to somehow play a non-evil based necromancer? Not sure how this is done/catered too."

... and ...

"Wouldn't mind shying away from the holy aspect of passage and sticking more to some sort of obsession (but I guess its hard to prevent an obsession from moving towards full on raising dead without a holy element putting a moral compass on the guy).
I guess I am just interested in how the spell-set would work out for a white-necro. Being handicapped in a way to force more complex than (i nuke or turn the undead) keeps my interest."

This is still in the early, formative stages. We're just looking for additional sources that might provide direction, expansion, inspiration, whatever.

I've provided him with this link, so he might pop in himself to clarify.

R.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rezdave wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
What kinds of spells/abilities currently exist that fit your definition so that we have a little more to go on with this?

Not really sure.

So far what I have from the Player is:

"An attempt to somehow play a non-evil based necromancer? Not sure how this is done/catered too."

... and ...

"Wouldn't mind shying away from the holy aspect of passage and sticking more to some sort of obsession (but I guess its hard to prevent an obsession from moving towards full on raising dead without a holy element putting a moral compass on the guy).
I guess I am just interested in how the spell-set would work out for a white-necro. Being handicapped in a way to force more complex than (i nuke or turn the undead) keeps my interest."

This is still in the early, formative stages. We're just looking for additional sources that might provide direction, expansion, inspiration, whatever.

I've provided him with this link, so he might pop in himself to clarify.

R.

Maybe instead of "White" Necromancy, perhaps you should go for "Grey" defined as "not as barking evil as most mages who get obsessed with death".

Necromany by it's nature is not a white magic, but as a grey path could focus on aspects of necronancy that don't drain life or revolve around raising the undead. Most protective aspects would overlap with Abjuration magic. Mages by their nature are not healers so it's rather hard for them to find a White path period. Necromancy pretty much closes the door on Whiteness, but Grey is a plausible road.


LazarX wrote:
perhaps you should go for "Grey"

We're already leaning that way. Again, the goal is mainly "not BBEG".

R.

Liberty's Edge

I actually have an extensively playtested White Necromancer base class written which I am very happy with. It's for Pathfinder but should be usable in 3.5 with only a small tweak or two.

The class is under consideration for publication so I can't say much more - if all goes well though, you will be able to check it out in a couple months!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rezdave wrote:
LazarX wrote:
perhaps you should go for "Grey"

We're already leaning that way. Again, the goal is mainly "not BBEG".

R.

That's the point of my post. I can see the idea of a Grey Necromancer with a sort of Severus Snape mentality. I can see the concept of a Grey Necromancer as an Anti-Hero model. I have extreme difficulty with a Flower Child "sweetness and light" White Necromancer though. Severus Snape is probably as "White" a concept as I can entertain with a Necromancer model.

Being focused on Necromancy as a pursuit is going to put some definite constraints on how you see the world and all in it, much like how Raistlin's hourglass eyes defined the world context for him. (Always saw it as one of what'shisnames "Nice Job Breaking it Hero" moves)

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

I think that a "White Necromancer" can best be done as a witch rather than a specialist wizard. With access to a variety of restorative magics (as well as a host of offensive necromancy as well), you might find the spell list to be a better fit for what you're looking for.

Dark Archive

Fatespinner wrote:
I think that a "White Necromancer" can best be done as a witch rather than a specialist wizard. With access to a variety of restorative magics (as well as a host of offensive necromancy as well), you might find the spell list to be a better fit for what you're looking for.

Ditto. Clerics, as well, or Bone or Juju Oracles, have better spells for a 'white' necromancer, since necromancy involves the energies of life and death, and wizards are blanket-forbidden from using the energies of life, leaving them with only the 'black' half of necromancy. (Granted, as of 3.X, the 'white' necromancy spells have all been changed to conjuration (healing), which is just absurd, since conjuring negative energy has remained necromancy, while conjuring positive energy has been re-classified, but, historically, healing magic was necromancy, and the best example of 'white necromancy' in the game.)

Quite a few other non-necromancy spells have a strong necromantic vibe, including detect undead, hide from undead and shield other (linking the life-force of two people so that damage flows from one to the other? That's *totally* necromancy!). That might be another way to work the 'white' necromancy angle, barring actually crafting your own beneficial necromantic spells, by reflavoring pre-existing spells. Hold person, for instance, could be considered to be related to the paralyzing ability of some undead. Spells that create darkness or cold could be seen as negative energy effects that drain away light or heat, sucking them into the void. Spells that remove disease could be seen as killing living micro-organisms with negative energy. Antiplant, antianimal or antilife shell could be seen as pushing away living creatures with waves of repulsive life-warding negative energy. Dispel magic could be a negative energy effect, hungrily devouring the energies of a spell or item. Resist energy (fire or lightning) could be seen as negative energy, draining away the incoming energy, and protecting the enspelled person.

And then there's tons of other effects that are possible. Necromancy allows communing with spirits. Not all spirits are evil undead. Some are the remnants of *nice* people (or at least non-evil ones), like the ancestral spirits called up by a Horn of Valhalla, or the Petitioners in the outer planes, or the 'echo' that is spoken to via a speak with dead spell. A necromancy-specific summon spirit spell that calls up incorporeal versions of animals or generic people, and otherwise works more like summon monster than animate dead, could be effective. A spell that contacts an ancestral spirit to grant a bonus to a skill check. One that allows one to be 'ridden' by a spirit, to gain bonuses from the spirit could make a decent buff (if the spirit was a warrior, you could gain combat bonuses, if a spellcaster, perhaps it can 'aid other' from the inside on your arcane spells, if a rogue, perhaps it can help you find or avoid a trap). A spirit (even your own spirit!) could be sent to scout ahead. A fragment of your own spirit could be sent into an ally (to allow communication or even assistance), a foe (to hinder their actions or torment them) or even an inanimate object (to 'bring it to life' as a temporary construct).

Without going anywhere near the [evil] descriptor, there's a ton of possibility for a necromancer to function along this theme.

The existence of items like the horn of valhalla, or petitioners in the outer planes, or even the non-evil spirit residing within the necromancer's own body, gives him a vast array of non-evil tools. Stick to interacting with non-evil spirits, and not with rotting bodies or malevolent spectres, and you can do incredible things.

The downside of doing this as a wizard is that you will have to pay to create these spells, for the most part, and you won't have the built-in support that comes with an organized church and inferred understanding of / relationship with the afterlife, and, meta-gaming a bit, the built-in 'needed in the party' status that comes with being able to cast cure spells.


Set wrote:
Granted, as of 3.X, the 'white' necromancy spells have all been changed to conjuration (healing)

Yep ... I HR'd the cure spells out of Conjuration and back into Necro immediately, to keep the idea of Necromancy as "life/death energies".

R.


With all due respect to those who have replied thus far (I recognize all of your names and like you guys), this name of this thread is "Seeking ... Mechanics".

I'm really very well covered on the fluff side of things. I appreciate it, but I really need crunch. The Witch (DMG) and Oracle (???) suggestions are great and helpful.

As I said, I have Core books (3.5 & PF-CR), Spell Compendium and Magic of Faerun.

Any other Books you recommend that have some new and interesting spells in them to really expand the scope of a "necromancer" (whether arcane, divine or some amalgamation of the two)?

R.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Rezdave wrote:

The Witch (DMG) and Oracle (???) suggestions are great and helpful.

As I said, I have Core books (3.5 & PF-CR), Spell Compendium and Magic of Faerun.

Both the Witch and Oracle classes are actually from the Advanced Player's Guide (PFRPG) and not the GMG. I don't know if you consider the APG "Core" or not (I don't), so I'm unsure if you've already got that one in your collection. If not, I highly recommend it, particularly for this concept.

The witch class, with its blending of healing/restorative magics and more traditional necromancies, is going to be your best bet I think. The oracle certainly CAN fit the archetype as well, but as a divine caster, the oracle doesn't quite fit the idea of a "necromancer" for me... but your mileage may vary.

Grand Lodge

I know of four 3.0/3.5 books that have various rules and/or prestige classes for white necromancers...

1. Mongoose's "Necromancy: Beyond the Grave"
2. Sword & Scorcery Studio's "Scarred Lands, Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers"
3. White Wolf's "Ravenloft: Heroes of Light"
4. Green Ronin's "Secret College of Necromancy"


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I understand this an old post but I felt inclined to chip in. The White Necromancer class, 2 archetypes, spells and feats which accompany it that Marc Radle designed is awesome! It's incredibly flavorful and well-balanced. One of the most enjoyable classes I've played in 30 years. Great job!

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