Intimidate Emperor Pilts


Curse of the Crimson Throne

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

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My group never wants to give up their gear. So when the Emperor's mob told them to surrender their weapons, the PCs killed them. After 3d6 minutes, they killed the next 2-mob group. Finally, the 4-mob group didn't ask for their weapons and escorted them to the Emperor.

In order to talk to Scream they were told to play Blood Pig - but couldn't use their weapons/spells during the game - they refused.

It did not help the situation that I place the reoccurring villain Rolth as Pilts' advisor (as recommended by another thread). My PCs hold a grudge.

So the group tried using the Intimidate skill to threaten Pilts into handing over Rolth and/or letting them talk to Scream.

Here's the problem:
(More with the Pathfinder rules than the encounter)

Intimidate DC is only 19: 10 + 10 (Pilts HD) -1 (Pilts Wis mod).
This is a pretty easy DC to hit (especially for the half-orc barbarian at +14). The group 'nailed' this roll. They rolled a 28, so even if I threw in misc mods for killing Pilts' mobs, they still succeed.

I double-checked and none of Pilts's bardic abilities help him (glibness, counter-song only works against magic effects, Well-Versed only works for saves, etc).

Was it really that easy?


Banesfinger wrote:

My group never wants to give up their gear. So when the Emperor's mob told them to surrender their weapons, the PCs killed them. After 3d6 minutes, they killed the next 2-mob group. Finally, the 4-mob group didn't ask for their weapons and escorted them to the Emperor.

In order to talk to Scream they were told to play Blood Pig - but couldn't use their weapons/spells during the game - they refused.

It did not help the situation that I place the reoccurring villain Rolth as Pilts' advisor (as recommended by another thread). My PCs hold a grudge.

So the group tried using the Intimidate skill to threaten Pilts into handing over Rolth and/or letting them talk to Scream.

Here's the problem:
(More with the Pathfinder rules than the encounter)

Intimidate DC is only 19: 10 + 10 (Pilts HD) -1 (Pilts Wis mod).
This is a pretty easy DC to hit (especially for the half-orc barbarian at +14). The group 'nailed' this roll. They rolled a 28, so even if I threw in misc mods for killing Pilts' mobs, they still succeed.

I double-checked and none of Pilts's bardic abilities help him (glibness, counter-song only works against magic effects, Well-Versed only works for saves, etc).

Was it really that easy?

For the next 1d6x10 minutes, Pilts will treat them as friendly.

Then he will hunt them down and attack them with his entire group.


Banesfinger wrote:

My group never wants to give up their gear. So when the Emperor's mob told them to surrender their weapons, the PCs killed them. After 3d6 minutes, they killed the next 2-mob group. Finally, the 4-mob group didn't ask for their weapons and escorted them to the Emperor.

In order to talk to Scream they were told to play Blood Pig - but couldn't use their weapons/spells during the game - they refused.

It did not help the situation that I place the reoccurring villain Rolth as Pilts' advisor (as recommended by another thread). My PCs hold a grudge.

So the group tried using the Intimidate skill to threaten Pilts into handing over Rolth and/or letting them talk to Scream.

Here's the problem:
(More with the Pathfinder rules than the encounter)

Intimidate DC is only 19: 10 + 10 (Pilts HD) -1 (Pilts Wis mod).
This is a pretty easy DC to hit (especially for the half-orc barbarian at +14). The group 'nailed' this roll. They rolled a 28, so even if I threw in misc mods for killing Pilts' mobs, they still succeed.

I double-checked and none of Pilts's bardic abilities help him (glibness, counter-song only works against magic effects, Well-Versed only works for saves, etc).

Was it really that easy?

I have the same issue with this mechanic (and the Dazzling Display Tree)and yep it really was that easy. Like Ice Titan said however, payback is a b@@~!, so yeah Pilts would becoming for blood in about 10 minutes no holds bar with TPK on his mind!!


For coercion and more extensive forms of intimidation I have been implementing a multi-test system lately. Something like walking into a crazy man's "throne room" and telling him to "jog on" counts for extensive use of the intimidate and diplomacy skills (in my opinion). I don't do this to punish PC's with decent intimidate or diplomacy scores. Rather, I do it to keep events from hinging on a fantastic roll or a terrible toss of the die. And I also like to provide a chance (slim though it may be) that daring acts of bravado could potentially pay off through peacocking and fast-talking. Sort of like social combat I suppose. A number of successful checks equal to an NPC's ability bonus in Wis/Int/Cha (whatever they are best at) can achieve more spectacular results like cowing a king in his court or getting a rampaging group of orcs to reconsider their attack. If there is room for back and forth banter, I allow NPC's to roll counter intimidation/diplomacy rolls to sort of "tug-o-war" a bit. In any situation you have to put a limit either due to time limits the PC's may be facing or just a cap on attempts that you'll allow the PC's.

So at my table, I'd look at the OP situation as follows. Having a Half-Orc scary as sin Barbarian bellowing orders at you can be intimidating as heck, but I'd also think that a man of Pilts' unique instabilities would get to fire back as well (he's the bloody emperor of old town after all...at least in his diluded mind). Sure the PC's mangled his minions in the streets but there are enough folks around in his HQ to provide a dire threat for the PC's if mob tactics are used.

SO I'd set up a tug-o-war of intimidation. The PC's could aid another but they need to choose one character to actually perform the checks. Pilts should get bonuses for each multiplier of minions he has available on the PC's (4 pcs vs 8 minions would give him a +1 for example, 12 would be +2), he'd get a +2 for being on home turf and +2 if he is higher level than the highest level PC. Since he's a Bard I'd let him use Performance (Oratory) to achieve his checks to oppose the party's intimidation. Since Pilts' CHA is 19 the party has to win four opposed checks. The limit on attempts is not time based, but rather the ammount of tom-foolery Pilts is willing to accept in his "court" before he just orders the PC's to be smooshed for their insolence...off hand I'd use 6 opposed checks. As soon as the PC's get to four total "wins" the bout is over and they win. If the opposed checks hit 6 and the PC's don't have four wins then Pilts wins by default. You'll note that Pilts can win two ways here. If the PC's boff three checks they can't win and if they go to six checks at a 3-3 tie they don't win. Hey...go big or go home right?

If Pilts wins I'd just have his mob close on the PC's as though beefed up by his bardic abilities (Inspire Courage or Greatness), and if the PC's win he should aggree to either hand over Rolth or let them talk to Scream.

So if they win they either get to exact some revenge on Rolth or they get to avoid Blood Pig and talk to Scream. Seems like a good payoff for simple yelling and a few dice rolls, and the back and forth exchange is more memorable than "Okay we succeed at the DC so give us what we want...all of it" And if they lose they have a memorable fight on their hands. Either way sounds like a fun evening of gaming to me.

As usual I probably made my way of doing things seem overly complicated. I am just coming from an angle where I like the PC's to have a chance to succeed at far-fetched plans, I just don't like to let success or failure of a section of an adventure rest on a single die-roll when it comes to skill checks. It takes multiple checks to scale a wall or swim accross a river...it should take multiple checks to get the mad king to hand you his crown.

Now if the party is able to simply destroy all their enemies in one sword swing due to amazing abilities or cool tactics...I'm all for that because it's based on hitpoints and other relevant RAW mechanics. But waltzing into the crimelord's den and saying "screw you pal we're scary give us what we want because my single 28 check says so" doesn't really work for me. And with the groups I play with it usually feels kind of unsatisfying to the players too. But when they know they have to roll big with a chance of things getting hot-under-the-collar it is more fun even if the end result is that they intimidate the crud out of the crimelord in his den.

Think of it like that scene in Return of the Jedi where Leah/Boushh is selling Chewie to Jaba. There are a couple of exchanges between them before the thermal detonator comes out. And then when Jaba does his "this bounty hunter is my kind of scum" routine it fits and no one thinks less of jaba. If she had waltzed in and said "50,000 no less" and Jaba was like "sure dude can I make this check out to Cash?" people would have been like..."man Jaba is a real wuss why do we put up with that fat slug?"

Lack of sleep + caffeine may have rendered this entire post useless so I apologize if anyone loses sanity from it :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Herbo wrote:
For coercion and more extensive forms of intimidation I have been implementing a multi-test system lately. Clip...

I like it.

It's sort-of like skill challenges in 4e.

I'll give it a try for next session and let you know how it goes.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Actually Herbo, the only problem I forsee with this is that Pilts has a bluff score of +49. Almost impossible to go heat-to-head with that!

Players: "let us talk to Screem."
Pilts: "I have 300 hidden archers aiming at your head right now. Throw down your weapons."


Banesfinger wrote:

Players: "let us talk to Screem."

Pilts: "I have 300 hidden archers aiming at your head right now. Throw down your weapons."

You make a good point. Sometimes you have to just sit back, pull the rules machine into neutral and just pull out the narrativist lurking in all of us :-)

Pilts' Performance or Diplomacy might be a better way to roll though, and if the situational bonuses get too out of control I'd just cut em at a certain point. Like if he's got 100 miscreants and thugs facing the party it doesn't really offer the party a fair chance if Pilts gets a +25 modifier for that alone. ; )

I also haven't had a situation with tug-o-war where one side had a landslide advantage. If that ends up being the case you can probably simplify the whole thing to the quote above (I sure would).

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