"Advanced Race Guide" Wish List


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0 CR template for lycanthropic characters to be applied to the current base race.

A lesser or quisi lycanthrope.


Robert Little wrote:

Any additional races will likely come from using the new "race-building" rules that they will be running the open playtest for in the fall. Rather than trying to come up with new races themselves, they'll give GMs the tools to create the ones they want for their campaigns.

My biggest "wish" for the book is a robust selection of racial alternate class abilities, hopefully at least some of which won't be class specific.

The racial alternate class abilities were listed, as racial level substitutions.

I do see ONE problem with "race-building" rules though and that is that we all know that someone, somewhere will find a way to break it and ask to use it in PFS or other official events


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Kurocyn wrote:

At least I'm not the only one who would like to see "furry" races...

Personally, I'd like to see the Oriental Adventure's Nezumi again.

The Hengeyokai, also from OA, fill the cat-girl/semi-lycanthropic/awakened animal role nicely...

-Kurocyn

You know, I just like lycanthropes. I grew up liking were-wolves and the like. ever since 2nd Ed DnD. So having a 1/3 cr lycnathropic race ot template would be great. I don't care what label anyone wants to give it, that is just me.


So long as we're shown ways to make beast-folk races if Paizo doesn't give us one officially, I'll be quite satisfied with this book.

Dark Archive

Azure_Zero wrote:


I do see ONE problem with "race-building" rules though and that is that we all know that someone, somewhere will find a way to break it and ask to use it in PFS or other official events

I doubt homebrewed races, even ones made with the rules in the ARG, will be PFS legal.


David Fryer wrote:
I doubt homebrewed races, even ones made with the rules in the ARG, will be PFS legal.

I know their will be one weiner that will say "I made it using the offical rules from an offical Pathfinder book so why can I not play with it."


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Azure_Zero wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
I doubt homebrewed races, even ones made with the rules in the ARG, will be PFS legal.
I know their will be one weiner that will say "I made it using the offical rules from an offical Pathfinder book so why can I not play with it."

There are already several optional systems not allowed in PFS. Words of power is the biggest example that comes to mind. I'm sure there are others. If someone can't handle a game with restrictions, PFS is not for them.

Liberty's Edge

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Azure_Zero wrote:
I know their will be one weiner that will say "I made it using the offical rules from an offical Pathfinder book so why can I not play with it."

There always is. Rule #1: Don't be that guy.


deinol wrote:


There are already several optional systems not allowed in PFS. Words of power is the biggest example that comes to mind. I'm sure there are others. If someone can't handle a game with restrictions, PFS is not for them.

restrictions are a nice spice in life, and it makes for some interesting characters that are realistic in Campaigns


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What I am about to request has already been mentioned elsewhere but I just want to add my voice to the clamor.

One of the things I love about Pathfinder is that its rules really give me as the GM a toolkit to craft any kind of campaign I want. One of the things I would like to be able to do is a kind of Flash Gordon campaign and that means having balanced rules for winged human looking humanoids, lizardfolk, other types of beastmen, insectmen, and so on. Others have already stated this so I just want to say that I would buy something that would let me do this also.

Also, I really really want to have a balanced way of using doppelgangers and other more powerful "monsters." In the campaign I was running (and hope to start up again someday) I used the rules for Races of Destiny whereby the character had doppelganger levels whereby they gained more and more doppelganger powers until they were full strength. This really helped maintain balance with the rest of the party so that the doppelganger didn't overshadow the others in terms of capabilities nor was s/he too weak to keep up with the other party members. So I for one didn't have any problem with a powerful creatures powers being parsed out over several "monster-levels."

Having said that - I my campaigns are actually more centered on human civilization, human characters, and those closely related to them. So I would not want to see a situation where the severn core races are sub-optimal to more exotic things.


Robert Little wrote:
Azure_Zero wrote:
I know their will be one weiner that will say "I made it using the offical rules from an offical Pathfinder book so why can I not play with it."
There always is. Rule #1: Don't be that guy.

Don't worry, I'm not that Guy


I would Love to see a archetype or set of options that ties further in to the gnomes ability to be pyromancers/arsonists it would be cool if there was the ability to play something from the ground up that can cast nothing but fire spells but is amazing at that and that alone i mean blasting mages in 3.5 and pathfinder suck but the idea behind a blasting mage is too cool that and the options for a pyromancer from the ground up is too limited one 1st lvl firespell "2 if you count snap dragon fireworks".

Is sad Id personally love to see a blaster archetype that was useful and had more longevity.

Maybe it would have a resource pool like the magus that it could spend to enhance fire effects and recall used fire spells and as for its spells per day it would only go up to 6th level but it would have a custom tailored list of all the fire blasting and fire based utility spells .

as for bab it would probably use the wizard 1/2 bab , it would also be like a wizard when it comes down to armor and weapon proficiencies .

who else likes this idea?


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Kurocyn wrote:

At least I'm not the only one who would like to see "furry" races...

Personally, I'd like to see the Oriental Adventure's Nezumi again.

The Hengeyokai, also from OA, fill the cat-girl/semi-lycanthropic/awakened animal role nicely...

-Kurocyn

Totally with you on this. I'm not exactly sure why people are so apprehensive to the idea of having the humanoidish animal races, other than they read a story that happened one time, in band camp, in a galaxy far far away..

But I mean this is a fantasy game right? Why are we stuck with playing humans. Short humans, grumpy humans, angry humans, eccentric humans, crazy humans.. I want something that is pretty much out there.

Like a platypus race. That would be awesome.

Liberty's Edge

I would like some new race-affiliated weapons, like the elven curve blade for elves. It would make it more fun and unique to play a different race


PeevedNixie wrote:
I would like some new race-affiliated weapons, like the elven curve blade for elves. It would make it more fun and unique to play a different race

Why not include racial fighting style options/feats.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.


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I would like to see some expansion on the Changeling race introduced in Carrion Crown.

Beyond that I would like to see them touch on Half-Breed races that aren't human blood. A Half-Orc who is half dwarf for example or a Tiefling from Halfling ancestry.


Greylurker wrote:

I would like to see some expansion on the Changeling race introduced in Carrion Crown.

Beyond that I would like to see them touch on Half-Breed races that aren't human blood. A Half-Orc who is half dwarf for example or a Tiefling from Halfling ancestry.

More options for the Changeling seconded,

Most half-races are templates, only half-Elf and half-Orc are base races.
A Halfling with demon blood exists in the 3.x Fiend Folio, but I get where your coming at. I make my own touch-race templates to do what you are wanting


Epic Meepo wrote:
Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.

Me, I would prefer keeping races grounded, so the DM does not have to deal with a flying headache.

But if it's done through a spell I am OK with it.


northbrb wrote:
i want to see some small 0hd races that dont gain a Cha bonus, i know the goblin gains a penalty but i want some more small races.

Wait until I can get my campaign setting in print. My small race have no adjustment to Cha either way.

Quote:
and honestly i would love to see some humaniod animal races.

Felid, canid, mustelid, possibly ursine, something vanara-like (simian), more reptilians, and some sort of arthropod. Bonus points if they have appropriate SQs (scent for dog beastfolk, et cetera).

ulgulanoth wrote:
thanks for the link, i hadn't actually seen those before

If you can get your hands on an old Fantasy Flight OGL book called Mythic Races, there are also the eleti.

While we're on the subject of Mythic Races, something akin to siarrans (0hd race with four arms) could be nice.


Nimon wrote:


I never played 3.5 until pathfinder, but in 2nd ed I used to enjoy playing a Minotaur-favored class would probably be Barbarian or Fighter.

Pixie was another fun race,but natural invis would be OP for society play I imagine.

/Stares hard at name trying to determine if I know you....

Our favorite 2E campaign had both a pixie and a minotaur in it, and they were AMAZING!! I've been VERY curious what that group would look like Stated out in Pathfinder...

Minotaur and Pixie were the FIRST thing i thought of when i saw this wish list!


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
You know, I just like lycanthropes. I grew up liking were-wolves and the like. ever since 2nd Ed DnD. So having a 1/3 cr lycnathropic race ot template would be great. I don't care what label anyone wants to give it, that is just me.

I'm bouncing around in my head right now a way to make a werewolf type character that would work as a PC...

Right now I'm looking at Barbarian with rage and strength adding the low light and scent rage powers ... multiclassed with an alchemist and his Feral mutagen for claws/bite...

REALLY getting excited about the idea... :)

Lot of fluff added in, but certainly playable!

Dark Archive

I'm gonna second most things said here, but I must say that I think that the contest of the book is already decided. But, here it goes anyway:

1) Litorian-like race, aka Catfolk; also Wolffolk, Ratfolk and Bearfolk. Those four furry races are pretty much entrenched in fantasy.

2) Racial archetypes for established races. Why must all Elves or Dwarves be the same?

3) Much more info on Changeling. This race captured my imagination and it serves just great for a dominant race in one of the great nations in my home brew.


Eric Hinkle wrote:
So long as we're shown ways to make beast-folk races if Paizo doesn't give us one officially, I'll be quite satisfied with this book.

Paizo, more likely then not, will not give us beast-folk officially. Paizo likes to make sure that as many of their alternate options as possible functions in Golarion, and it's much easier for the Pathfinder Society document says, "Words of power and races generated through <Optional System> are not allowed" instead of saying "You can't use spells X, Y, Z and races A, B, C, D, and E." While there's another thread that says Japanese kitsune are going to be in a setting book (don't ask me for the name; I don't remember it, nor can I spell it), which could be related to your beast-folk wishes.

But yeah, I'm hoping for simple race-creation guidelines too so we don't have to argue whether our custom races are OP or not.


phantom1592 wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
You know, I just like lycanthropes. I grew up liking were-wolves and the like. ever since 2nd Ed DnD. So having a 1/3 cr lycnathropic race ot template would be great. I don't care what label anyone wants to give it, that is just me.

I'm bouncing around in my head right now a way to make a werewolf type character that would work as a PC...

Right now I'm looking at Barbarian with rage and strength adding the low light and scent rage powers ... multiclassed with an alchemist and his Feral mutagen for claws/bite...

REALLY getting excited about the idea... :)

Lot of fluff added in, but certainly playable!

I have been working on a template to apply to the core races that will make them minor (less than lesser) lycanthropes since 3.5. I have had little to no luck. Every so often I dive into the subject from a new angle, but I just can't seem to get it right.


A Fey Race..and no I don't mean pixies.

And say no to Neko....


DM Wellard wrote:
A Fey Race..and no I don't mean pixies.

Or some sort of fey/human hybrid

Quote:
And say no to Neko....

Pshaw. A feline race would not have to be "neko." Not all cats are cute and docile. (See also: Ajani Goldmane. Actually, lion people would be kind of awesome.)


Golden-Esque wrote:


While there's another thread that says Japanese kitsune are going to be in a setting book (don't ask me for the name; I don't remember it, nor can I spell it), which could be related to your beast-folk wishes.

The book with Kitsune is "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Dragon Empires Gazetteer" and it is out in November

Shadow Lodge

Since there is already a fair amount of stuff on the races in the Companion books (and apparently lots more Companion books on the way) the race book doesn't excite me too much.

The few things I'd really enjoy getting covered are:

  • A full treatment of the tengu
  • A refresh to PFRPG of the Elf racial stuff.
  • More halfling and gnome coverage

    What I'd like to see avoided is a ton of variant sub-races of the existing races.

  • The Exchange

    actually there are a few things I would like to finally see.

    This
    or this
    or even this
    I would even take this
    Would work too
    As would this

    Just saying....


    Why not just play mouse guard Crimson?

    The Exchange

    Abraham spalding wrote:
    Why not just play mouse guard Crimson?

    Never heard of it before. I was just pointing out that this is a standard fantasy trope that heretofore has not been worked out for this type of rpg game.

    Scarab Sages

    T'Ranchule wrote:
    Joe Wells wrote:

    OK, I'm going to throw Lizardfolk out there. Yes, I know they aren't 0hd. That's a shame, really. They'd work really well using class levels only.

    One of the first non(demi)-human characters outlined for the game was Phoebus in the original Rogue's Gallery. They're Neutral alignment, so they don't have any fussy morality baggage to mess with. They're big, they're bad, they're green.

    And just look at that Trampier artwork.

    Admit it. You need some lizard in your campaign.

    Seconded.

    Thirded!

    Scarab Sages

    Epic Meepo wrote:
    Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.

    You know, this is a very good point. Flying without the aid of flapping wings is a creature feature in many tales of legend and folklore. While I can't off-the-cuff recall any by name, I'm certain there must be some suitable for Pathfinder games.

    RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

    Epic Meepo wrote:
    Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.

    Leadership Feat + Tinkerbell and her fairy dust = flight without wings.

    Dark Archive

    Winterthorn wrote:
    Epic Meepo wrote:
    Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.
    You know, this is a very good point. Flying without the aid of flapping wings is a creature feature in many tales of legend and folklore. While I can't off-the-cuff recall any by name, I'm certain there must be some suitable for Pathfinder games.

    Having such a racial quality be HD based, and perhaps start with something small, like the ability to take a 5 ft. step regardless of terrain (by flitting over obstacles), taking less (or no) damage from falling, getting mad bonuses to jump checks, etc. and increasing to the ability to make a move action without touching the ground, but having to land at the end of every round, before eventually getting full-blown flight.

    Liberty's Edge

    Winterthorn wrote:
    Epic Meepo wrote:
    Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.
    You know, this is a very good point. Flying without the aid of flapping wings is a creature feature in many tales of legend and folklore. While I can't off-the-cuff recall any by name, I'm certain there must be some suitable for Pathfinder games.

    An option like the one Set suggested might work -- though it presents some real problems as well (since most NPCs will be first to third level, you end up with a flying race where the vast majority can't fly...by which standard any race that can access fly spells could be called a flying race...) but unbindable flight at low levels is a total gamebreaker.


    Ævux wrote:
    Kurocyn wrote:

    At least I'm not the only one who would like to see "furry" races...

    Personally, I'd like to see the Oriental Adventure's Nezumi again.

    The Hengeyokai, also from OA, fill the cat-girl/semi-lycanthropic/awakened animal role nicely...

    -Kurocyn

    Totally with you on this. I'm not exactly sure why people are so apprehensive to the idea of having the humanoidish animal races, other than they read a story that happened one time, in band camp, in a galaxy far far away..

    But I mean this is a fantasy game right? Why are we stuck with playing humans. Short humans, grumpy humans, angry humans, eccentric humans, crazy humans.. I want something that is pretty much out there.

    Like a platypus race. That would be awesome.

    Massive double-plus with you on that. That's pretty much always been my feeling on the matter -- you damn near managed to quote me. I always thought it was intellectually lazy to be set down in a fantasy setting, with all kinds of weird, different sentient races, and then limit the players to "humans, short humans, graceful humans, shorter humans, and so on." That's one of the very few things that I think 4th Edition did extremely well -- introduce lots of exotic, not-just-a-scaled-and-palette-swapped-human races.

    And I also strongly agree on the Hengeyokai. I'd love a ``0-ECL'' lycanthropic race along the lines of the Hengeyokai. Part of what made them great, at least to me, is that, unlike the ``shifters'' of Eberon, they actually had a Hybrid and Animal form, which they could maintain without a time limit. (The balance was that Hybrid form wasn't nearly as powerful as a natural lycanthropes, and that they could only change form a limited number of times.) That'd be awesome. :)

    Something else I'd love to see is my other favorite player race, the Kiloren. A Fey race - and one that's significantly different from humans, which the feral-looking leaf-skinned Kiloren where.

    Oh, one last point. As someone who ran ``savage'' races in 3.5 games a lot... please God, do not re-introduce level adjusts. They where the bane of my existence. They where awful. One of the great changes in Pathfinder, at least for me, was dropping level adjusts, and just using monster CR's. That made a lot of unplayable builds, like natural Lycanthropes, practical in Pathfinder. I'd really hate to go back to the Bad Old Days of 3.5-style level adjusts and ECL's.


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    Half succubus. Maybe not my thing but I can think of a number of female players over the years who were basically looking to play a half succubus cleric of lust.

    Scarab Sages

    I have a copy of Fantasycraft, and there are some interesting race ideas in this creative tome! Here's the 2 most original:

    "Rootwalker": a large sized plant being very much like a small treant.

    "Unborn": a medium sized construct, very much like warforged but suggesting alternate builds so that you could emulate a Modron-like being :-)

    There could be feats created that specifically improve a race's abilities to bring it closer to the final concept -- as an alternative to using monster class levels. (Wouldn't work for all, could function well for some.) I've this treatment done to lizardfolk -- Wayfinder #5 maybe?

    I also own a copy of Mythic Races, and the ones I liked, conceptually, were the Sendasti, the Blickish, the Pevishan, and the Artathi; although there were many other creative ideas (but not always well balanced) in this book.

    Scarab Sages

    Gailbraithe wrote:
    Winterthorn wrote:
    Epic Meepo wrote:
    Everyone always asks for a flying race with wings. I want a flying race without wings. There should be a way to play a character based on Peter Pan.
    You know, this is a very good point. Flying without the aid of flapping wings is a creature feature in many tales of legend and folklore. While I can't off-the-cuff recall any by name, I'm certain there must be some suitable for Pathfinder games.
    An option like the one Set suggested might work -- though it presents some real problems as well (since most NPCs will be first to third level, you end up with a flying race where the vast majority can't fly...by which standard any race that can access fly spells could be called a flying race...) but unbindable flight at low levels is a total gamebreaker.

    I agree, while flight is common in fantasy, and popular, it *is* a challenge to keep things balanced at low levels.


    The Forgotten wrote:
    Half succubus. Maybe not my thing but I can think of a number of female players over the years who were basically looking to play a half succubus cleric of lust.

    Feels a LARPing joke coming on....

    ....

    ....

    Nope! It's passed.


    I would love to see a Anthropormorphic Template, Warforges (living contructs), Half Giants, Were- Templates


    Steven Ross 43 wrote:
    I would love to see a Anthropormorphic Template, Warforges (living contructs), Half Giants, Were- Templates

    YAY!

    Grand Lodge

    The Ubue

    also would like templates that add minor stuff to creatures like mulit- limbed, multi-headed, winged, ect. or add some thing different or unique ie. reptilian, serpentine,draconic, or insectoid! at least these are my hopes


    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
    Abraham spalding wrote:
    Why not just play mouse guard Crimson?

    Cause mouse guard isn't about adventures going off and adventuring. Its about a bunch of mice who stay at home and guard the homeland. And your biggest dangers are things like cats and badgers. Not dragons and demons.

    you are constantly needing to check yourself lest you suddenly go feral or are driven mad. (or something like that)

    We played a modded version where we were fighting off zombies as humans in a local city, so I'm not sure on all the mousey specifics.


    I hope for a fovored class bonus for every race linked to every class, perhaps even sometimes 2 possibilities.

    Other than that, please not too many new races.
    And altough it will never ever happen, please say that the gnome description in the core book is all lies and reintroduce the gnomes of 3.5 with +int instead of +cha.

    I liked those paragon classes in 3.5, however with the "take the whole 20 levels"-approach I hope to get archetypes for the typical races/classes:
    Elf - Wizard
    Dwarf - Fighter
    Gnome - Wizard Illusionist (with int bonus!)
    Halfling - Rogue
    (Half)-Humans don't need that.

    RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

    An alternative to level adjustments might be having more powerful races use a slower XP advancement table.

    And as they increase in hit dice, you can add more powers, so they're not totally font-loaded.

    Races of the Wild had a decent flying race. It began by gliding at 1st level, then able to fly for 1 round per Str or Con mod (minimum 1 round) with gliding between rounds of flying at 5th level, and then true (unlimited) flight at 10th level.

    The flight hex of the witch is also a good way emulate a wingless flight ability that grows with level.


    . . . . Birds

    . . . . With

    . . . . Arms

    . . . . . . . . . . . . WANT!!

    Dark Archive

    Better editing.

    Racial Paragon Classes from UA would be nice, too.

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