Please don't call it 'Ultimate Races'


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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I propose: "Strange Folk."

Liberty's Edge

Racemastery Guide.

No?

Dark Archive

The Big Book of Furries. :)


Let the brainstorming begin!

Salient Species.
Remarkable Races.
Brillient Breeds.
Pathfinder Peerage.


KaeYoss wrote:
Joey Virtue wrote:
Guys its the name of the series just like the completes were for WOTC so get use to it

There was no Complete Human or anything like that. The classes series was Complete... The races had the Races of ... series instead.

It would not be that bad an idea to do a similar distinction. Ultimate is for class-based concepts, while the racial stuff gets its own name.

You are correct that is my fault

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe "Strange Breeds."

Grand Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:

I think a better name is Extreme Races, with cover art featuring an Aasimar on steroids, holding two oversized plasma cannons.

Drawn by Rob Liefeld, of course.

Don't forget POUCHES! and SQUINT! as they are a must for anything like this. There should even be a feat for people with permanent SQUINTS!, it should give them.... I don't know, access to bizarre anatomy or something.


*sigh* Who cares what the title is as long as it's pertinent to the content, isn't patently offensive, and it delivers the goods? Seriously, anybody going to "not buy it" because they think the title could be "cooler"? Eric Mona said they were changing it, but I'd bet my bottom gp that someone will have a problem with the new title. Why not worry about the content and get your 2cp in on that?

*edit* For those of you just having fun with it... carry on :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
R_Chance wrote:
Eric Mona

That's not Eric Mona, it's Erick Monna. Please, guys, stop misspelling Erick's name. It's getting old!

;-)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

If it was a third party book, it could be "The Genius Guide to Geneaology."

Liberty's Edge

Erik Mona wrote:
Well, Erik reads the message boards, so you pretty much did just tell him your take on the elemental races.

I know, that's why I said it. ;)

Quote:

Erik doesn't agree, but whatever, you're entitled to your opinion. The game is big enough to have a little something for everyone, and the audience is big enough to ensure that there are going to be a few things in there that aren't aimed directly at your interests.

No big deal.

Consider it a challenge to prove me wrong. We all know what WOTC did with the elemental races: Squat! They were "flavored humans" and the only reason to play one was to min/max the hell out of your fire sorcerer. Races that exist solely to give powergamers moar powah are not useful additions to the game. They are, in fact (FACT!), the exact opposite of useful additions.

So do better. Make them interesting in themselves. Give them personality. Make me want to play one for some reason more grand than a +1 DC to my Fireball.

PS: I was serious about the Dhampir. WANT MOAR DHAMPIR.

The Exchange

Agree with "I don't like the title."
Disagree with "there's too many titles" on the profiteering side, agree with "there's too many titles" on the slow down and edit what you're working on now side.

Compare Paizo's books to a TV show where you can buy Season 2 (or even season 2.5) or wait 'til the show is done and buy all the episodes for 1/4 the price of the individual seasons. The big books are the meat. There's some cool little tidbits in the interim books to reward the hardcore fans who are interested enough to buy them all, but for the vast majority of people, all you need for lots of enjoyment are the big books.

Liberty's Edge

**Darts off to create thread, "Please Don't Call It Beginner's Box"**

Contributor

Removed posts. Post nicely, thanks!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My vote :
Advanced Species Guide
Advanced Races Guide

Both would work. It really is an advanced book for advanced players. Anytime you're not playing core races/species, you're looking at advanced rules. Similar to the APG.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Maybe: Advanced Characters Guide.

It can have options for races, and also other character options, like family, guilds, age, gender, sexuality, background, wealth, social class or caste, religion, philosophy, alignment, marital status, pregnancy, nationalities, neigborhoods, factions, etc. Granted, some of these options will lack "crunch" but could be cool for flavor. Maybe lots of traits and some feats and spells. Maybe some alternate class abilities and/or archetypes.

I would also like some additional features for humans. A bonus feat and a bonus class skill rank per level doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for variety for other types of class features. Maybe the ability to trade the customizable +2 to an ability score for something neat? Of course, I don't want humans totally re-designed either.


mdt wrote:

My vote :

Advanced Species Guide
Advanced Races Guide

Both would work. It really is an advanced book for advanced players. Anytime you're not playing core races/species, you're looking at advanced rules. Similar to the APG.

I like advanced races guide also, or guide to advanced races, or Tome of advanced races, something along those lines.

Dark Archive

Maybe Pathfinder Race Folio

Sovereign Court

Recalling the 'Orcale' debate, I don't imagine that vociferous opposition on the forums will change Paizo's mind on the title.

In his questions thread JJ told us 'it is called Ultimate Races' without any sense that this was a provisional title.

Liberty's Edge

Folk Folio


Gailbraithe wrote:

Give them personality. Make me want to play one for some reason more grand than a +1 DC to my Fireball.

PS: I was serious about the Dhampir. WANT MOAR DHAMPIR.

I always considered it to be the GM or player's job to give a character personality, and powergaming is subjective.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think it might be a good idea to have a generic animal-headed humanoid race, a generic centauroid (not necessarily equine) race, and a generic sphinx race (human head on a quadruped or animal body), and then have a variety of racial options, like different animal heads, different animal bodies, etc. etc.


GeraintElberion wrote:

Recalling the 'Orcale' debate, I don't imagine that vociferous opposition on the forums will change Paizo's mind on the title.

In his questions thread JJ told us 'it is called Ultimate Races' without any sense that this was a provisional title.

Did you not see Monna post earlier in this thread where he said they are changing the name of the book?

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
Gailbraithe wrote:
Give them personality. Make me want to play one for some reason more grand than a +1 DC to my Fireball.
I always considered it to be the GM or player's job to give a character personality, and powergaming is subjective.

I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or if you really don't get it, but there is a difference between a "race" and a "character." I would think the differences were fairly obvious.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Ooo, we're at the guess-the-name stage now? Sweet!

Ultimate Heritage if they're sticking with "ultimate"
Fantasy Races if they're dropping the "ultimate"

Really, you can't go wrong with Fantasy Races, since that's pretty much what the book's about.


Quandary wrote:

Sentient Species Almanac?

Guide to Mortal Races?
Manual of Demi-Humans?

Seriously, if people can`t up with anything close to a good name,
Paizo is going to see this and just shrug `oh well, what else CAN we name it?`

Races Advanced (?) - NOT Advanced Races, since that might give people the wrong idea...

Dominant Species (??) - Think this was already alluded to, but I really like the sound of it! And, if Paizo gets 'round to doing a book on playing monsters as characters, we could name it Savage Species and tie it as the sister volume, too! Er... Hold on. I think that title has all ready been taken... Ah, maaan!
(Of course, Dominant Races is an option, too... I guess...)
Culture Catalogue (???) - For those who like alliteration... And I'm not being remotely serious about THIS option... ;p Or even Culture Compendium! On this title I'm a little bit more serious...
Races Compendium or Compendium of Races (????) - If one's totally enamored(sp.?) by the word 'compendium'....
Ultimate Races (?????) - Woops! That's the "problem" title...

I guess, although there are other naming options out there (& I haven't read this whole thread yet, so I could be repeating some options others have already given... My apologies.), I'm not particularly irked by the naming convention being used by Paizo. It must just be an AWESOME book is all I want. (Please & thank you.)

That said, Dominant Species reeeally sounds evocative - to me, at least. ^^

Epic Meepo wrote:

Fantasy Races if they're dropping the "ultimate"

Really, you can't go wrong with Fantasy Races, since that's pretty much what the book's about.

Oooh. I like this one, too!

Carry on...

-- C.


Advanced races sounds just as ultimate races in my opinion, same for dominant or whatever.

+1 for the races (species) compendium

My ideas, perhaps a little long but:
Bestiary of playable species
or
Cultures of the bestiary

It would be way easier if it was a book in the setting of Golorian, you would just have Races of Golorian and be done with it.

Good luck for the poor sucker who has to find a name without a superlative or races in it, while still making in line with the Paizo titles.

for the elemental races "discussion", I just hope that you keep "strangeness" to a minimum, I don't want a freakshow of a group if I allow races out of this book and people might ask where those races were in the adventures already written.

Sovereign Court

John Kretzer wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

Recalling the 'Orcale' debate, I don't imagine that vociferous opposition on the forums will change Paizo's mind on the title.

In his questions thread JJ told us 'it is called Ultimate Races' without any sense that this was a provisional title.

Did you not see Monna post earlier in this thread where he said they are changing the name of the book?

I'm an idiot. Sorry.


I think Super Awesome Sentient Species would be a much better title.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Richard Leonhart wrote:
Advanced races sounds just as ultimate races in my opinion, same for dominant or whatever.

Really? We're going to play a fantasy RPG, one that used to be slammed as "devil worship," and we're going to be that that uber-sensitive to use of the word "race"?

*shakes head sadly*

Personally I like the Advanced lead word. That way we can have a bunch of similar titles on our shelf and they'll match nicely. And when they come out with a high-level play guide, calling it the Advanced Gamemastery Guide will fit right in.

Just as long as we continue to stay away from Ultimate. No pro-wrestling, monster trucks, or Marvel comics to see here ... move along ... move along ... :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:

I'm not fuming about this or anything, but I want to express my preference as a customer.

I never did care for the 'Ultimate' title theme, especially since for many of us nerds it invokes Marvel Comics' existing titles.

Even so, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, these I could understand. Ultimate Races as well? That just seems uninspired.

I'm not sure what it should be called, and it may be too late to change course on this one, but I would really prefer something more poetic or more traditional. Pathfinder's choice of 'Bestiary' for their monster book has always elated me. I still maintain that Ultimate Magic should have been "the Pathfinder Grimoire". These old-style titles look awesome on the sides of big hardcovers.

I don't feel super strongly on this, and I'm not threatening a boycott or anything. Forum, am I in the minority on this one?

I think we should call the book... Phil.


Gorbacz wrote:
R_Chance wrote:
Eric Mona

That's not Eric Mona, it's Erick Monna. Please, guys, stop misspelling Erick's name. It's getting old!

;-)

Errik is bound to be irate at seeing this. :D

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Bugaboo-X wrote:
I think Super Awesome Sentient Species would be a much better title.

Keep your SASS to yourself!!!!

;-)

Liberty's Edge

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Seriously, the "ZOMGZ IZ TEH BLOATZ!" whining is really getting old.

2009:

CRB
Bestiary

2010:

APG
GMG

2011:

Bestiary 2
UM
UC*
Bestiary 3*

2012:

UR**

Nine books. NINE. One of them (UR) isn't even officially a product, and two of them (UC and Bestiary 3) haven't been released.

Holy moly, that's a lot of bloat, yes sir! Shame on you, Paizo! You promised that you'd only ever release one single book ever, you horrible people!

And, oh my stars, I just noticed something! Paizo released 2 books in 2009, 2 in 2010 and they're set to release FOUR in 2011! That must mean they'll release EVEN MORE in 2012! By 2015, they'll be releasing a book a month! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

As a side note officially Bestiary 2 made it out before the end of 2010 in December. SO that is officially 2010 and you forgot Beginners Box which is part of the RPG line in 2011.

They did say 3 to 4 books a year.


Erik Mona wrote:
ALSO, we're going to change the title of this book. Stay tuned for a formal announcement later this week. Perhaps quite soon indeed.

Cool, thanks. I think that even something as simple as "Playable Race Omnibus" would be clear, concise, and accurate, while bypassing most of the objections here. More pizazz would be nice if possible, though! Edit: but totally unnecessary, now that I think about it, since it's an intriguing product and I would snatch it off the shelf just for knowing what it was (and not being offended).


Hopeful this book contains racial options (racial ability swap outs, favored class) like in APG for all the PC races and add some more.
Note I am looking at Bestiary 2 PC race ability swap outs for the pseudo genasi presented in Bestiary 2 (Ifrit, Oread, Sylph, and Undine especially).

Racial feats for the various PC races in all the previous materials, like the Changling in Harrowstone, the Assimar, Tiefling etc...

The book could also include the custom tiefling material in Council of Theives 1 and also compliment it with custom assimar material.

If it included racial subs for classes, or even heritor feats (think Complete Mage or Fiendish Codex I) I would be really excited.


GeraintElberion wrote:
Recalling the 'Orcale' debate, I don't imagine that vociferous opposition on the forums will change Paizo's mind on the title.

Given that `Mystery` was a forum-induced change, I wouldn`t be so sure about that.

...And given the fact that Paizo has already said they are looking at changing the name,
and James Jacobs specifically isn`t all that into infinite `Ultimate` products,
I`d say it`s almost a sure thing to change, though to what, only Paizo can say.


Quandary wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:
Recalling the 'Orcale' debate, I don't imagine that vociferous opposition on the forums will change Paizo's mind on the title.

Given that `Mystery` was a forum-induced change, I wouldn`t be so sure about that.

...And given the fact that Paizo has already said they are looking at changing the name,
and James Jacobs specifically isn`t all that into infinite `Ultimate` products,
I`d say it`s almost a sure thing to change, though to what, only Paizo can say.

Hey Quandary, did you just not read GE's response about not reading Erik's Response? :P


Codex/Manual/Natural History of Sentient Taxonomy? ...of Mortal Souls?


Book of Fantasy Races

What do I win?


Cartigan wrote:

Big Book of Fantasy Races

What do I win?

FIFY


Evil Lincoln wrote:
Hey Quandary, did you just not read GE's response about not reading Erik's Response? :P

Correct, I did not ;-)


How about "Peoples" or some variation on that?

Dark Archive

Is this a foreign thing? 'Cause I have never heard a supremacist say 'Ultimate Race.'

Growing up in a town where black people were legally not allowed to own property (an unenforceable law, but not one that anyone in the town cared to remove from the books...), they always say 'Master Race' or 'Superior' or 'Pure' or something.


I`ve never heard that either... It probably doesn`t help to be taken seriously by using RPG-speak.
The usage of the plural Ultimate RaceS would also seem to cause consternation amongst supremacists...
How can there be more than one `Ultimate Race`, after all?
In any case, connotations with `racial supremacists` are not what I don`t like about this title,
it`s just that Ultimate ANYTHING is getting over-done and sounds too cheesy to me.


Set wrote:

Is this a foreign thing? 'Cause I have never heard a supremacist say 'Ultimate Race.'

Growing up in a town where black people were legally not allowed to own property (an unenforceable law, but not one that anyone in the town cared to remove from the books...), they always say 'Master Race' or 'Superior' or 'Pure' or something.

Set, I don't think anyone takes that part of the thread too seriously. It's there if you dig for it, and some people will dig, but I don't think that's a primary reason for changing the name. The primary reason is that "Ultimate Races" just isn't very cool.

Dark Archive

Evil Lincoln wrote:
Set, I don't think anyone takes that part of the thread too seriously. It's there if you dig for it, and some people will dig, but I don't think that's a primary reason for changing the name. The primary reason is that "Ultimate Races" just isn't very cool.

Ah, that's cool then. Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat were pretty generic, too. But I'm a Lovecraft goob, so never say 'Ultimate Magic' when you can say 'Occulted Mysteries of the Blasphemous Gyre' or something pretentious.

I just thought it was a race-thing, like the book was 'Master Race of Ultima Thule' or something. :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Matthew Morris wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I think a better name is Extreme Races, with cover art featuring an Aasimar on steroids, holding two oversized plasma cannons.

Drawn by Rob Liefeld, of course.

I'm torn between saying this should be an 'X-treme Races' book in that case, or those DQ commercials. "We don't just have Aasimar, we have Aasimar <i>Plasma Cannons</i>."

Hey! I don't have commercials, and if I did, I would let Rob Liefeld nowhere near them!

Aasimar Plasma Cannons on the other hand...

(Sorry... Carry on. :) And always remember: DQ Something Different.)


I reckon I'll buy it, no matter the title, just for completeness' sake. I can't afford to buy everything that comes out of the Paizo mines, so I just buy the big ol' hardbacks that compile things.

In truth, I'm not even sure I'd get much use out of it. My players know that given free rein there'd be no PC race but Humans. The most I'd give in to "other races" would be to stat up different Human species from the fossil record.

Still, I'm sure this will be a decent book. I've loved all the Paizo products I've bought so far.


They don't seem inclined to do eponymous/fictional guidebooks ("-'s Guide to Hogwich," "-'s Guide to Hogtown," "-'s Guide to Kobold Toenail Fungus," etc.) Been done I guess.

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