Would vital strike deal 2d6 con damage on rapier of puncturing, on a critical would it become 3d6 drain.
would sneak attack work with this weapon when using this ability?
I would say the CON drain is a special ability like flaming and is not modified by Sneak Attack, Critical Hits, or Vital Strike. When you attack as normal with the +2 Wounding Rapier power those things would work. But the 3/day touch attack is more like a spell ability and not a weapon attack in the fact it does not deal HP damage and HP damage is required for a weapon like spell with an attack roll. I could be wrong on that however. ;)
From the strict reading of the rules, only the weapon's damage (1d6 for a medium rapier) is affected by VS. Since the Con damage is a special ability added on top of the base damage, as mentioned by Thazar, it would not be doubled/tripled/youknowthedrill by VS line of feats.
Also, I believe the action required to execute VS would render the tactic unviable because VS requires a Standard action to perform, which CANNOT be used in conjunction with anything else that uses the same action. So while you can Power Attack with a Vital Strike, you cannot Cleave in the same action for example. Since the Con damage touch attack would assumably require a standard action on its own, it cannot be used with Vital Strike.
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Vital Strike does not function when using the rapier's special Con drain ability - the attack deals Con drain, not damage. Also, Vital Strike multiplies the number of 'weapon damage dice' you roll, and the number of 'weapon damage dice' you roll with the Con drain ability is 0.
As for critical hits, under 'spells and critical hits' the rules say that if a spell that deals ability damage or drain crits, it deals double the listed damage or drain. It seems logical to apply this rule to the rapier of puncturing's ability, even though it's not strictly speaking a spell.
Finally, sneak attack would not work when you use the rapier's special ability - you have to deal hit point damage to sneak attack, and this attack deals ability drain, but no damage.
Vital Strike does not function when using the rapier's special Con drain ability - the attack deals Con drain, not damage. Also, Vital Strike multiplies the number of 'weapon damage dice' you roll, and the number of 'weapon damage dice' you roll with the Con drain ability is 0.
As for critical hits, under 'spells and critical hits' the rules say that if a spell that deals ability damage or drain crits, it deals double the listed damage or drain. It seems logical to apply this rule to the rapier of puncturing's ability, even though it's not strictly speaking a spell.
Finally, sneak attack would not work when you use the rapier's special ability - you have to deal hit point damage to sneak attack, and this attack deals ability drain, but no damage.
The weapon does con damage in place of it's normal damage this is what leads me to believe it works with VS, if it is a standard it does not though, it's not spelled out in the item it just says in place of it's normal damage.
The weapon does con damage in place of it's normal damage this is what leads me to believe it works with VS, if it is a standard it does not though, it's not spelled out in the item it just says in place of it's normal damage.Vital Strike does not function when using the rapier's special Con drain ability - the attack deals Con drain, not damage. Also, Vital Strike multiplies the number of 'weapon damage dice' you roll, and the number of 'weapon damage dice' you roll with the Con drain ability is 0.
As for critical hits, under 'spells and critical hits' the rules say that if a spell that deals ability damage or drain crits, it deals double the listed damage or drain. It seems logical to apply this rule to the rapier of puncturing's ability, even though it's not strictly speaking a spell.
Finally, sneak attack would not work when you use the rapier's special ability - you have to deal hit point damage to sneak attack, and this attack deals ability drain, but no damage.
Three times per day, this +2 wounding rapier allows the wielder to make a touch attack with the weapon that deals 1d6 points of Constitution damage by draining blood. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the Constitution damage dealt by this weapon.
That says nothing about using it in place of the normal damage. You get a touch attack as a standard action to damage their constitution.
VS does not work with that.
Three times per day, this +2 wounding rapier allows the wielder to make a touch attack with the weapon that deals 1d6 points of Constitution damage by draining blood. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the Constitution damage dealt by this weapon.
That says nothing about using it in place of the normal damage. You get a touch attack as a standard action to damage their constitution.
VS does not work with that.
Nowhere does it say it's a standard action, but I'm tempted to default to that.
Also nowhere does it say in sneak attack that it has to deal hit point damage. Sneak attack does extra damage of the same type though that seems a bit sick if you look at doing 1d6 con +5d6 con from a level 10 rogue. I'm tempted to go with some 3.5 errata and have the additional damage be negative energy instead of con damage
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Also nowhere does it say in sneak attack that it has to deal hit point damage. Sneak attack does extra damage of the same type though that seems a bit sick if you look at doing 1d6 con +5d6 con from a level 10 rogue. I'm tempted to go with some 3.5 errata and have the additional damage be negative energy instead of con damage
Yep, my bad on that one - I think that was my internal sanity checker editing my reading of sneak attack so that I don't have to contemplate sneak attacking enervation or the like. I, too, wholeheatedly support the negative energy damage sneak attack over many d6 of Con damage or negative levels...
EDIT: Ah, reading another thread a poster* mentions that Ultimate Magic has an example of a sneak attack enervation dealing negative energy damage, so the 3.5 errata may have been grandfathered in via the back door. If so, I'd probably say that due to its source, sneak attacking with the rapier's touch attack would deal piercing sneak attack damage.
*Ogre in 'Sneak Attack, and its many forms'; thread archived at the end of May.
VS would not work with the con damage of the Rapier.
When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
Firstly, you're making a touch attack, so you are not using the weapon's damage to calculate the damage at all, it's a special ability of the weapon. VS only works when damage is dealt by the weapon using a normal attack. In this case, doubling the damage die of the weapon does nothing as it is not involved in dealing the damage.
As for sneak attacking, it should work fine when using the special ability, but I do not think that it would apply more con damage, something seems off to me and I don't think that's what was intended.
If you sneak attack with Chill touch, does that do 1d6 extra of strength damage? I don't know, but my gut says it would not.
VS would not work with the con damage of the Rapier.
When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.Firstly, you're making a touch attack, so you are not using the weapon's damage to calculate the damage at all, it's a special ability of the weapon. VS only works when damage is dealt by the weapon using a normal attack. In this case, doubling the damage die of the weapon does nothing as it is not involved in dealing the damage.
As for sneak attacking, it should work fine when using the special ability, but I do not think that it would apply more con damage, something seems off to me and I don't think that's what was intended.
If you sneak attack with Chill touch, does that do 1d6 extra of strength damage? I don't know, but my gut says it would not.
chill touch would deal extra negative energy damage since it deals neg energy damage, sneak attack acid arrow deals extra acid damage, etc.