So I looked and looked, my search-Fu sucks.
What is the point in this ability? I know it's a hold over, but do people find this useful?
I've heard if people combining it with charm animal/monster (or whatever) to secure canon fodder in later battles, but does this actually work?
When I read about the ability it says works like diplomacy, but I don't see an NPC following me into battle so why would an animal?
I really think this is a wasted ability, please prove me wrong.
One of my player's combined it with Vermin Heart to bypass a nest of hostile vermin.
That's generally what it's used for, avoiding needless encounters.
As with all non-direct combat abilities - YMMV depending on your DM.
Wild Empathy is a very flavorful ability for Druids, giving them a mechanical means of befriending animals. However it's usefulness is limited by whether your DM gives you the opportunity to use it.
Eg - the entrance to the vault where the macguffin is stored is the home to a maternal bear and cubs. Without a Druid, you'd probably have to fight past the protective bear. With a Druid you can attempt to soothe the bear and make it past without killing it.
Calm down guard dogs when you're trying to sneak by, discourage wild animals from attacking and so on. When I played a druid I found it useful in the situations where it worked, and when it didn't work it was because I rolled poorly.
ninjaed :)
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Lets say you and your friends are walking down a trail in the forest. RAWRRRRRR out jumps a momma grizzly bear and her 2 cubs whom you just disturbed . In comes wild empathy, so now in soft soothing tones the Druid or Ranger talks nicely to the bear and has it go the other way and not eat him and his friends. Now it does say that it usually takes a min to preform but also states that it could take more or less time depending on the animal or situation, that is the only part that is kind of tricky.Otherwise a decent but not mind blowing ability.
And needless xp? Lol..
(ok, not serious there)
So it's one of those ultra situational abilities that Paizo felt needed extending in the nature warden prc? I just feel like something more is there, but I'm falling flat
You guys respond fast!!
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And needless xp? Lol..
(ok, not serious there)
Any reasonable non-bloodthirsty DM would still give you xp as though you killed them for resolving the situation.
And needless xp? Lol..
If you use Diplomacy to avoid a fight with some bandits, or Wild Empathy to avoid a fight with a protective mother bear, you're still resolving the encounter successfully, which means you gain XP for the encounter.
It's also good to calm down horses, or camels, or any other mounts the party may have to deal with. Not everyone walks everywhere, and having someone who can keep the mounts calm in the middle of the thunderstorm that just came up can be invaluable.
A PC in one of my recent games had Vermin Heart and tried to use wild empathy, but it takes a full minute to attempt.
We had usually murdered the giant spider or bear or whatever by then.
There is a feat in Ultimate Magic that lets you do it as a standard (or maybe a move?) that would actually make this a useful ability.
This could well be the most important class ability to have if, say, you woke up to a charmed muskrat humping your bare feet!
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html
=)
Well. Would druids make more sense with this ability or without? It's flavour. If it was crazy powerful, the rest of the druid would be adjusted to compensate. As is, it's just a neat little perk that makes sense.
A PC in one of my recent games had Vermin Heart and tried to use wild empathy, but it takes a full minute to attempt.
We had usually murdered the giant spider or bear or whatever by then.
There is a feat in Ultimate Magic that lets you do it as a standard (or maybe a move?) that would actually make this a useful ability.
Any reason that the other party members didn't allow the druid to try wild empathy?
I have always understood that while the attempt is under way, the animal does not attack the druid/ranger or anyone else in their party.
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I have always understood that while the attempt is under way, the animal does not attack the druid/ranger or anyone else in their party.
See... that's an assumption, not a written rule. And it depends on how your DM's feeling at the moment. It comes down to how simulationist the game is. Animals won't suddenly stop being startled and hostile, think about your one-minute performance, then wait for your dice roll to decide if they stay calm or get angry again. No, they eat you, right away.
Diplomacy as written is designed to not be able to disarm combat situations with non-animal encounters. This feature refers to Diplomacy, so ultimately has the same result. You'd be better off casting speak with animals.
I've seen this ability as a means for Druids to avoid combat with natural creatures, and I think it's very consistent with the concept of the whole class. The druids I play don't like destroying nature indiscriminantly if they can possibly avoid it.
See... that's an assumption, not a written rule. And it depends on how your DM's feeling at the moment. It comes down to how simulationist the game is. Animals won't suddenly stop being startled and hostile, think about your one-minute performance, then wait for your dice roll to decide if they stay calm or get angry again. No, they eat you, right away.
Diplomacy as written is designed to not be able to disarm combat situations with non-animal encounters. This feature refers to Diplomacy, so ultimately has the same result. You'd be better off casting speak with animals.
Except that startled animals don't always attack right away. Typically animals are most agressive when injured, hungery, or you have come between them and their young. There are exceptions, but those exceptions are not the rule.
If the animal is stalking a PC or the character is "threatening" its young, then it will likely attack. If it was just startled, then it will likely try to intimidate while determining if the proper responce is fight or flight. That is when Wild Empathy is useful.
The same holds true for Diplomacy when the PCs encounter a barbarian hunting party and neither side is sure if the other group is friendly.
I do not mind the ability, it is a RP tool and sometimes druids RP with animals. Sometimes the evil humanoids have trapped wild animals in a cage, where you can possibly befriend them, or possibly the barbarians ride wooly mammoths, how cool is it to befriend one of those and turn it to your advantage. At the Gm's discretion an encounter can be stalled when a wild animal is encountered.
It depends on the GM's willingness but it gives the druid something to work with even without magic, so a druid can fairly easily befriend the pack of wolves that live near his grove for example.
See... that's an assumption, not a written rule. And it depends on how your DM's feeling at the moment. It comes down to how simulationist the game is. Animals won't suddenly stop being startled and hostile, think about your one-minute performance, then wait for your dice roll to decide if they stay calm or get angry again. No, they eat you, right away.
Diplomacy as written is designed to not be able to disarm combat situations with non-animal encounters. This feature refers to Diplomacy, so ultimately has the same result. You'd be better off casting speak with animals.
Thraxus explained it well. Not every encounter with wild animals will be an immediate combat encounter, the same as not every encounter with NPCs will be an immediate combat encounter.
Yes, it takes a minute to see if it actually works, to see if you have managed to sooth the wild animal, to calm it down. To me, it is the same with a bluff or diplomacy check - it will take time (a minute or more?) to talk the NPC around, so the check is made after that bit of time.
Also, to me, it is the rule as written. How can the ability work if the animal is in full combat with you? It can't. So to work as written, the animal has to refrain for a moment, a minute, before deciding if it will fight, flee or make friends.
Speak with animals is a limited resource, if you have prayed for it and haven't used it yet. Wild Empathy is an unlimited use ability.
My party used to think it was kinda dumb... then we had a Ranger with high charisma who loved it and used it to:
a) Make it so all the guard dogs on the estate didn't attack/raise an alarm when they were sneaking up on the Bad-Guy's Right-Hand-Man.
b) Sneak out of the goblin camp (without having the Goblin Dogs give them away) after being captured.
c) Let a nasty bear let the party hide in its cave (while still guarding the door) when they were being chased
d) Make nice with the Cockatrice-s when they walked into a nest rather than risking petrification.
e) Make nice with a Bulette and point it toward a much "meatier" group (who happened to be tracking them at the time)
So, yeah, situational as heck -- but then, the base druid/ranger are meant to be wilderness-folk. Making friendlier terms with animals and magical beasts seems pretty good -- especially when speak with animals doesn't make them friendly.
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I think more Crocodile Hunter (pre-stingray) or even the dreaded Bindi...
Happy, you are confusing wild empathy with a grapple check.
Crocodile Dundee is the way I have always pictured Wild Empathy working...
^this
I'd say you generally have up until the animal charges to start attempting. Anything after that is considered combat. When I say "roll initiative" I'm okay with you saying "I'm goin to try and use wild empathy first". It makes sense to me. Can you use diplomacy/wild empathy on a group of 3 or so people/animals? Absolutely, though I'd increase the dc to reflect this. The animal is hungry and must eat? Throw it a ration, this might even give you a boost to wild empathy, or simply qualify you to use it depending on the original intent of the animal.
I used it to convince a dire lion to not eat me. I could have defeated it one on one but I'd have been worse off for it. And had the Wild Empathy failed, I'd be in the fight reguardless so why not try it and it worked.
I've also used wild empathy to secure mounts, wild horse for example. I've used wild empathy to get near enough to an animal to use speak with animals.
I find it quite useful.
Its been said a dozen times, but it depends completely on the dm. The same can be said for skills like ride, handle animal, swim, linguistics, disable device, diplomacy, craft, etc etc etc. Its your DMs world and he's going to fill it with what he/she wants.
Flavorwise I love wild empathy.
The only use I can think of is allowing the Domain or Herbalism Druid to not have to spend skill ranks in Handle Animal.
EDIT: I did some necromancy in a Druid thread... That's rather unconventional.
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Nowadays there are feats to make it a lot more useful. And there is even a charisma based druid archetype. So it becomes a much more viable option.
It's not the most powerful option but druids can easily afford to be suboptimal in most campaigns.
The big problem is that opportunities to actually use it can be rare, again depending on GM, campaign and the other players. But it is very nice when it comes up
A player's ranger in 3.0 used it on a deionynichus and rolled a 1. It bit him. So he took reptiles as his next favoured enemy (I allowed it, including dinosaurs, kobolds, dragons, yuan-ti, etc). The other players were going to buy him a tortoise for his birthday.
I think you acutally CAN use diplomacy to convince an NPC to fight for you, at the DMs discretion (having an attitude of friendly doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to fight for you, but I could see it working in some cases, particularly if you are the same alignment and/or have a mutual enemy).
Drawback: Warded Against Nature...
Yes, wild empathy is worthless.
Even in a wilderness campaign, being able to kill them is better than speaking to them.
It has no use, ever.
Invest in better class abilities and options...
Drawback: Warded Against Nature...
Yes, wild empathy is worthless.
Even in a wilderness campaign, being able to kill them is better than speaking to them.
It has no use, ever.
Invest in better class abilities and options...
I think it's more of a "What exactly can I gain from this, even if I do have an opportunity?" situation. If it's already hostile, you can't use it since it functions like Diplomacy:
Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future. Any attitude shift caused through Diplomacy generally lasts for 1d4 hours but can last much longer or shorter depending upon the situation (GM discretion).
... so you can't prevent combat with it anyway.
What it can do is make animals friendlier towards you, but what exactly are you going to with that? It's an animal, so it can't really do you any favours.
I think it's more of a "What exactly can I gain from this, even if I do have an opportunity?" situation. If it's already hostile, you can't use it since it functions like Diplomacy:
Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future. Any attitude shift caused through Diplomacy generally lasts for 1d4 hours but can last much longer or shorter depending upon the situation (GM discretion).... so you can't prevent combat with it anyway.
I would argue that lots of animals are not automatically hostile even when they display warning signs whether it’s a gorilla shaking trees, a viper rattling its tail, or a lion growling. I’d give a character with wild empathy a chance and the time to try to ply his skill here. And if he succeeds, he can settle an animal’s reaction to a perceived threat.
What it can do is make animals friendlier towards you, but what exactly are you going to with that? It's an animal, so it can't really do you any favours.
But it can let you pass it’s territory without an unnecessary fight.
Pass without an unnecessary fight?
Who actually wants to avoid XP?
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Pass without an unnecessary fight?
Who actually wants to avoid XP?
You're awarding XP wrong.
What it can do is make animals friendlier towards you, but what exactly are you going to with that? It's an animal, so it can't really do you any favours.
Combined with Speak With Animals, it can be a pretty good way to gather information.
Who actually wants to avoid XP?You're awarding XP wrong.
...and repeating a conversation from eight years earlier on this same page...
Any reasonable non-bloodthirsty DM would still give you xp as though you killed them for resolving the situation.And needless xp? Lol..
Animals make up the least scary portion of enemies you may encounter...
BRING IT ON!
Animals are delicious and I shy away from no fight with such stupid beasts.
If I negatively influence every animal within 30', good. I will gladly kill them and eat them and wear their skin.
Probably do the same to the Druids talking to the animals, too.
All joking aside, Wild Empathy is completely worthless.
I don't care if my enemies can speak with animals, either, because I don't respect Druids in the slightest. If they are using Wild Empathy to find my location, good, it means that they aren't Divination Wizards.
Stupid animals. Stupid Druids. Not worried. At all. Ever.
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You're awarding XP wrong.Pass without an unnecessary fight?
Who actually wants to avoid XP?
Agreed. But it DOES explain his belief that Wild Empathy is useless.
In a campaign where you have to kill things then Wild Empathy IS useless.
In a campaign where the GM doesn't work with the player then Wild Empathy IS useless.
But in most games it is somewhat useful from time to time
You're awarding XP wrong.Pass without an unnecessary fight?
Who actually wants to avoid XP?
Agreed. But it DOES explain his belief that Wild Empathy is useless.
In a campaign where you have to kill things then Wild Empathy IS useless.
In a campaign where the GM doesn't work with the player then Wild Empathy IS useless.
But in most games it is somewhat useful from time to time
Fair enough. Abilities are only as useful as one has the opportunity to exercise them, after all. If one is playing Diablo Tabletop, wild empathy may not be terribly useful to one.
One of my player's combined it with Vermin Heart to bypass a nest of hostile vermin.
That's generally what it's used for, avoiding needless encounters.
Not only needless... treasureless encounters. Really...Eve, why would that dog have a sniper rifle?
Ok, getting past the memes- encounters with wild animals are often relatively low on treasure. They don't generally use equipment, and they aren't smart enough to hoard equipment for trade. At best, you missed something that was inside of its stomach from the last adventurer it ate.