Hairbattle (Fighting with prehensile hair)

['Rixx]

Quote:

Prehensile Hair (Su): The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand. The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. Pieces cut from the witch’s elongated hair shrink away to nothing. Using her hair does not harm the witch’s head or neck, even if she lifts something heavy with it. The witch can manipulate her hair a number of minutes each day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. A typical male witch with this hex can also manipulate his beard, moustache, or eyebrows.

Since the prehensile hair is treated as a limb with strength equal to your Intelligence score, do you get bonus damage based on your Intelligence rather than strength when you attack with it?

It has reach 10ft., as well - does this mean that you can attack foes at 10ft. and adjacent foes as well, or does it work like a reach weapon?

[Nigrescence]

'Rixx wrote:

Since the prehensile hair is treated as a limb with strength equal to your Intelligence score, do you get bonus damage based on your Intelligence rather than strength when you attack with it?

It has reach 10ft., as well - does this mean that you can attack foes at 10ft. and adjacent foes as well, or does it work like a reach weapon?

It's specifically outlined as a natural attack, not a weapon with the reach property. It can therefore attack foes at all distances within its reach.

Also, it does get the damage bonus from INT as if it were STR, since it is treated as a limb with STR equal to your INT score. I thought that was fairly clear.

[ProfPotts]

The hair is a secondary natural attack - which means it gets half the Strength (equivalent) bonus on damage rolls, and takes a -5 to-hit, but that it's a bonus attack with the full attack action. Natural attacks with reach threaten the whole area they can reach into, yes. (See pages 301 to 302 in the Bestiary for more details).

So, for example, a level 1 Witch with this Hex and an Int of 18 gets:

Prehensile Hair - 10ft natural reach
A -1 total to-hit (+4 for the hair's 'Strength' based on her Intelligence, -5 for being a secondary attack)
1d3 +2 damage (assuming a medium-sized Witch: 1d3 base damage, and half her hair's Strength bonus of +4, again because it's a secondary natural attack)
And the hair can attack in the same round the Witch attacks normally, if she declares a full-attack action.

['Rixx]

All right! A couple more questions:

Can you make combat maneuvers with your hair - I.E. tripping or disarming?

If you only make attacks with your hair in a round, do you still take the -5 for it being a secondary natural attack, or do you attack at your full BAB since it's the only natural attack you have? (Assuming you don't have natural attacks from other sources.)

[Nigrescence]

ProfPotts wrote:

The hair is a secondary natural attack - which means it gets half the Strength (equivalent) bonus on damage rolls, and takes a -5 to-hit, but that it's a bonus attack with the full attack action.

Ah, yes, I forgot to add that it is a secondary natural attack. Good catch and reminder.

'Rixx wrote:

Can you make combat maneuvers with your hair - I.E. tripping or disarming?

Yes.

[ProfPotts]

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Can you make combat maneuvers with your hair - I.E. tripping or disarming?

Nothing to suggest you can't... although you'd still provoke AoO doing so, if you're within the target's threatened area (barring Feats or other abilities which let you do these things without provoking).

Quote:

If you only make attacks with your hair in a round, do you still take the -5 for it being a secondary natural attack, or do you attack at your full BAB since it's the only natural attack you have? (Assuming you don't have natural attacks from other sources.)

Yup, that's right - in that case you'd not get the -5 to-hit, and you'd also get to add one and a half times your hair's Strength bonus onto the damage (so our example Int 18 level 1 Witch would attack at +4 and do 1d3+6 damage if she only attacks with her hair that round).

['Rixx]

Eeexcellent. :D

If I start playing Pathfinder Society again, I think my new character is going to be a hair-magus.

[Jason Brodsky]

'Rixx wrote:

All right! A couple more questions:

Can you make combat maneuvers with your hair - I.E. tripping or disarming?

If you only make attacks with your hair in a round, do you still take the -5 for it being a secondary natural attack, or do you attack at your full BAB since it's the only natural attack you have? (Assuming you don't have natural attacks from other sources.)

Yes, you can make combat maneuvers with your hair, as with any natural (melee) attack.

No, the hair is always a secondary natural attack and always takes a penalty no matter what other attacks you make. This point is a bit tricky, since general monster rules say that if you have only one attack, it is always 1.5*Str. However, the hair-specific rule that it's a secondary (so take -5 and 0.5 * Str) trumps the general rule. The natural attack rules admit that specific rules trump the general rule: "Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently."

[ProfPotts]

Quote:

No, the hair is always a secondary natural attack and always takes a penalty no matter what other attacks you make. This point is a bit tricky, since general monster rules say that if you have only one attack, it is always 1.5*Str. However, the hair-specific rule that it's a secondary (so take -5 and 0.5 * Str) trumps the general rule. The natural attack rules admit that specific rules trump the general rule: "Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently."

The prehensile hair has the 'attack type' of 'secondary', yes, but there's nothing in the Hex text or the Natural Attacks text to indicate that it works any differently from any other 'secondary' attack. If a creature only has one natural attack, and doesn't use any 'non-natural' attacks either, the one natural attack is always treated as a primary attack with one-and-a-half Strength bonus added to damage. Calling the hair a 'secondary' natural attack is no more a specific rule to trump the natural attack rules than calling pincers or a tail slap a 'secondary' natural atack.

[Nigrescence]

Jason Brodsky wrote:

No, the hair is always a secondary natural attack and always takes a penalty no matter what other attacks you make. This point is a bit tricky, since general monster rules say that if you have only one attack, it is always 1.5*Str. However, the hair-specific rule that it's a secondary (so take -5 and 0.5 * Str) trumps the general rule. The natural attack rules admit that specific rules trump the general rule: "Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently."

If a monster only had a secondary attack, it would be treated as a primary attack. Why is this different?

If the hair was a primary attack, it would have the full bonus when used with other attacks. The property of a secondary attack is that you take the penalty when using it with other attacks. If you aren't, the secondary attack is treated as a primary attack.

This ability doesn't state that it always takes the secondary attack penalty no matter what. It merely points out what kind of natural attack the hair is.

[Grinx]

your fists should be considered a natural attack

[Atarlost]

Grinx wrote:

your fists should be considered a natural attack

Unless you're using a whip, though, the hair is probably going to be your only attack at either 10' or 5' because either your fists are full of a polearm or your arms aren't long enough to reach.