How do Lingering Performance and the Finale spells interact?

[Kain Darkwind]

Saving Finale

Lingering Performance

Do the effects continue for 2 rounds despite the performance being forced to end?

[Nigrescence]

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Saving Finale

Lingering Performance

Do the effects continue for 2 rounds despite the performance being forced to end?

Lingering Performance wrote:

Lingering Performance

The effects of your bardic performance carry on, even after you have stopped performing.

Prerequisite: Bardic performance class feature.

Benefit: The bonuses and penalties from your bardic performance continue for 2 rounds after you cease performing. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease.

Saving Finale wrote:

You must have a bardic performance in effect to cast this spell. With a flourish, you can immediately end your bardic performance when a creature within range affected by your bardic performance fails a saving throw, allowing the subject to immediately reroll the failed saving throw.

The Lingering Performance allows the performance to continue after you stop performing.

The Saving Finale ends the bardic performance itself.

Thus you could have it linger, and then at some point in the two lingering rounds, end the performance to use the Saving Finale.

The Saving Finale ends the bardic performance, whether you are still performing or not. The Lingering Performance only lets the performance continue after you stop performing. It doesn't let the performance continue after the performance itself has ended.

[Kain Darkwind]

That's one way of looking at it.

The other is that saving finale ends the performance, and Lingering Performance states that the effects (not the performance, just its effects) last 2 rounds after.

I was hoping for something solid to choose one way or the other.

[Ævux]

Personally, I'd have to say that it does linger still, for exactly what kain said there.

Its like the finale of a rock concert. Big explosions flashing lights, the band suddenly disappears. but it still lingers in your heart and in your mind.

[Pharothan]

I hate to dig this up almost a year later but what about a bardic performance like Careful Teamwork from the detective archetype. I believe that saving finale is triggered on the effect and not the actual performance and hence could be triggered anytime within that hour.
If it is simply an effect after the three rounds to perform, then that would mean you could stack it you other bardic performances since two would not be active at the same time correct? This would be more relevant for the geisha tea ceremony where you could effectively stack performances

Opinions?

[Avatar-1]

Lingering Performance wrote:

Lingering Performance

The effects of your bardic performance carry on, even after you have stopped performing.

Prerequisite: Bardic performance class feature.

Benefit: The bonuses and penalties from your bardic performance continue for 2 rounds after you cease performing. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease.

The confusion is around this line in Lingering Performance, which can really be read either way.

Does it actually mean the effects of bardic performance carry on, or does it mean the performance itself carries on? This never matters except for abilities like the finale spells.

I've been convinced that the performance actually ends when you say it ends and you're no longer being considered as performing based on this:

If you are performing, then cast a finale spell before your next turn, your performance immediately ends, and then Lingering Performance will continue the effects of your performance for 2 more rounds. Finale spells don't end the lingering effect; only the performance itself.

[Jokem]

IMO you are right, Avatar, when you say the wording of the two is ambiguous. The exact meaning of 'bardic performance in effect' is unclear. If it had said 'the Bard must be performing' that would be clear. It does go on to say the spell ends the bardic performance, not ends the -effect- of the bardic performance. So that implies the Bard has to actually be performing for the spell to work.

I would rule if the Bard is actually performing, Saving Finale would end the performance, and Lingering Song would take over.

I certainly would not be out of line to say if the spell was cast while lingering performance was in effect, the spell would work, but lingering performance would no longer be working.

Based upon that, theoretically, Saving Finale might work twice for one performance.

[Rhatahema]

I agree that lingering performance should kick in no matter how the bard ends the performance. If you end your performance with a spell, you have ceased performing. Personally, I'd rather it kick in anytime the target ceases to hear/see the performance, such as being blinded/deafened/out of range/etc., but that would be a house rule.

As far as the finale spells go... I think the intent is that they only be used while the bard is actively performing. The rules that are written might allow something else though.