Mynameisjake |
Fighter
Rogue
BarbarianIn that order any melee build can benefit from a dip in one of these classes. And as others have said, casters should avoid dipping, it is almost never worth it, except in very few specific cases.
"Casters should avoid dipping" is good advice that several posters have mentioned. Under what circumstances would it be an acceptable option?
Merkatz |
"Casters should avoid dipping" is good advice that several posters have mentioned. Under what circumstances would it be an acceptable option?
Taking a dip into Crossblooded Sorcerers isn't bad in order to pick up two kick ass Bloodline Arcana. Picking up two of Aberrant, Arcane, Fey, Infernal, or Serpentine would be pretty effective for the right Wizard or other caster.
TriOmegaZero |
"Casters should avoid dipping" is good advice that several posters have mentioned. Under what circumstances would it be an acceptable option?
Paladin 2 is godly for Cha casters.
A level of fighter is not bad for Eldritch Knights. Ranger is an unusual alternative.Monk for Wis casters, obviously.
Barbarian is not horrible for wizards, especially if there is something you can trade Rage out for.
Loengrin |
rogue. 3 levels gives sneak attack, some nice skill points, evasion, and a rogue trick
Well, just two levels of rogue give that... And if you think that just 1d6 of sneak attack is not enough you can take your rogue trick as something that trade sneak attack for something (like the one who says your target became flat footed for one of your friend... ;) )
Deadmanwalking |
"Casters should avoid dipping" is good advice that several posters have mentioned. Under what circumstances would it be an acceptable option?
Sorcerer 8/Paladin 2/Eldritch Knight, Dragon Disciple, or Arcane Archer 10 is one good one (if you wish to go the warrior/spellcaster route).
As is the aforementioned level of Monk or Barbarian for Druids.
A level or so of Monk is also a very appropriate (and decent) choice for a Cleric of Irori.
InVinoVeritas |
"Casters should avoid dipping" is good advice that several posters have mentioned. Under what circumstances would it be an acceptable option?
Casters should avoid dipping if being the caster is the character's main role. Dipping is bad for the wizard, unless they're trying for a very specific build--like taking Fighter 1 to qualify for Eldritch Knight.
However, if your main role isn't "being the one with access to the highest level spells and casting lots of spells in all situations", then dipping becomes a much better option. If you've got a particular schtick, like a sorcerous assassin or something, then by all means, dip away. You lose high-level spells and caster level, but if you aren't depending on high-level spells and your caster level for your particular build, then you're only sacrificing what you can afford to sacrifice. As a result, sorcerers and oracles can benefit from multiclassing if they've got a particular repertoire in mind. Sidestep Secret and Divine Grace? Illusionist with Awesome Display? Sonic-style Bard with Stormborn's Arcana and Thunderstaff? No problem. No, you aren't the party wizard... but that's because you aren't the party wizard.
Groggie |
No, you aren't the party wizard... but that's because you aren't the party wizard.
This solidified my thoughts for my next character level. We are going through the Kingmaker AP right now and I'm running a toolbox illusionist gnome. I was tempted to dip my 6th and/or 7th levels into bard. (Level 5 Illusionist right now) Bard really fits the character as he is a talker and Perform(Oratory) would be excellent.
Now I'm definitely doing it. We have two wizards in the party. So, I'm not the party wizard. I'm the leader, the fix it guy. I need the skills and flexibility this will offer.
Mike Schneider |
I can't believe nobody has mentioned it already: -- the hands, hands-down, no-contest, best dip class in Pathfinder (or 3.5) is a single level of cleric for carefully chosen domains. It is virtually impossible to design a melee build which cannot be improved by swapping one BAB+1 class level for the level of cleric. E.g., dwarf fighter with travel domains gets +10 move, Bless on-demand just because he can, etc.
Elf Zordlon |
I think someone mentioned earlier, but a dip into zen archer is what I am planning for my wizard. It works with mage armor, plus spells to buff arrows (flame arrow, versitile weapon, gravity bow, greater magic weapon). I am concerned that it may hurt the party at later levels when I don't have access to the higher level spells as mentioned, but it will benefit more as I can cast 1 or 2 spells per encounter and dish out damage without having to rest. I'll still have access to dispel magic, and hopefully get stoneskin, and the oh so popular grease when something goes wrong. I just wish i chose transmuter instead of abjuration for specialty class.
godsDMit |
I can't believe nobody has mentioned it already: -- the hands, hands-down, no-contest, best dip class in Pathfinder (or 3.5) is a single level of cleric for carefully chosen domains. It is virtually impossible to design a melee build which cannot be improved by swapping one BAB+1 class level for the level of cleric. E.g., dwarf fighter with travel domains gets +10 move, Bless on-demand just because he can, etc.
+1
Dont forget you also gain the ability to use a wand of any spell on the cleric list as well after taking just that one level.
Jiraiya22 |
You're in the wrong game. If you want to dip you should be playing D+D 3.0 which front loaded almost every class with the goodies at first level.
Super helpful. Best post all day, bar none.
As for casting dips, I once saw a bard dip a level of oracle for the Awesome Display revelation.
There are also some nice abilities for skill monkeys and charisma casters in the Lore mystery.
markofbane |
I am concerned that it may hurt the party at later levels ...
Taking a single level dip into another class just puts you on the same track as a straight sorcerer when it comes to what level of spell you can cast.
For single level dips, I like wizard, ranger and cleric. The reasons have mostly been listed above by others, but I'll add this: for a wizard to take a level of ranger, they trade that spell level for +1 BAB, +2 reflex saves, +2 fort saves, class skills in some of the most used skills game (perception, stealth, etc.) and favored enemy.
Helaman |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Uchawi wrote:I believe a specialized transmutation wizard recieves a +1 to str, dex or con as well.good point
"Physical Enhancement (Su): You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). This bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess to a maximum of +5 at 20th level."
So is that a +1 at level 1 and +2 at level 5 or is it at level 6?
bartgroks |
Druid is also nice as a 2 level dip for a melee class if you take the Shaping Focus feat from UM. You now have the ability to be a Dire Tiger for 6 hours out of the day, and you have pounce.
I was thinking about this myself but i don't think it would actually work. Wild Shape class feature is a prerequisite for the feat and you don't actually get wild shape until 4th level.
Sayer_of_Nay |
Jiraiya22 wrote:Druid is also nice as a 2 level dip for a melee class if you take the Shaping Focus feat from UM. You now have the ability to be a Dire Tiger for 6 hours out of the day, and you have pounce.I was thinking about this myself but i don't think it would actually work. Wild Shape class feature is a prerequisite for the feat and you don't actually get wild shape until 4th level.
This makes me sad. :(
I want to play a character that focuses exclusively on shape-shifting, with minimal casting ability. Now it looks like I'll have to take four levels of druid for my shifter instead of just two.
Aldin |
bartgroks wrote:Jiraiya22 wrote:Druid is also nice as a 2 level dip for a melee class if you take the Shaping Focus feat from UM. You now have the ability to be a Dire Tiger for 6 hours out of the day, and you have pounce.I was thinking about this myself but i don't think it would actually work. Wild Shape class feature is a prerequisite for the feat and you don't actually get wild shape until 4th level.This makes me sad. :(
I want to play a character that focuses exclusively on shape-shifting, with minimal casting ability. Now it looks like I'll have to take four levels of druid for my shifter instead of just two.
True, but you're not losing much. 2->4 is full BAB progression for the Druid, gives you 2nd level spells (hello, Bulls Strength!), and if you go Reincarnated you get those nice +4s against death, energy drain, etc.
Sayer_of_Nay |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:True, but you're not losing much. 2->4 is full BAB progression for the Druid, gives you 2nd level spells (hello, Bulls Strength!), and if you go Reincarnated you get those nice +4s against death, energy drain, etc.bartgroks wrote:Jiraiya22 wrote:Druid is also nice as a 2 level dip for a melee class if you take the Shaping Focus feat from UM. You now have the ability to be a Dire Tiger for 6 hours out of the day, and you have pounce.I was thinking about this myself but i don't think it would actually work. Wild Shape class feature is a prerequisite for the feat and you don't actually get wild shape until 4th level.This makes me sad. :(
I want to play a character that focuses exclusively on shape-shifting, with minimal casting ability. Now it looks like I'll have to take four levels of druid for my shifter instead of just two.
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't complain; with Shaping Focus, at least you have the option of keeping wildshape useful for higher level characters.
FiddlersGreen |
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:True, but you're not losing much. 2->4 is full BAB progression for the Druid, gives you 2nd level spells (hello, Bulls Strength!), and if you go Reincarnated you get those nice +4s against death, energy drain, etc.bartgroks wrote:Jiraiya22 wrote:Druid is also nice as a 2 level dip for a melee class if you take the Shaping Focus feat from UM. You now have the ability to be a Dire Tiger for 6 hours out of the day, and you have pounce.I was thinking about this myself but i don't think it would actually work. Wild Shape class feature is a prerequisite for the feat and you don't actually get wild shape until 4th level.This makes me sad. :(
I want to play a character that focuses exclusively on shape-shifting, with minimal casting ability. Now it looks like I'll have to take four levels of druid for my shifter instead of just two.
Reincarnated druids are also essentially immortal.
Elf Zordlon |
helaman wrote
So is that a +1 at level 1 and +2 at level 5 or is it at level 6?
it's at level 5. Good rule of thumb to figure out when you get the bonus is to start at the max which is +5 @ level 20 and work backwards.
markofbane wrote
Taking a single level dip into another class just puts you on the same track as a straight sorcerer when it comes to what level of spell you can cast.
Good point. I'm just leary that my current party will meet it's demise like the last group when we didn't have an anti-magic field. Maybe i'll just buy a scroll and hope i make my caster level check.
Gravefiller613 |
-Bard-Arcane Duelist is a good dip for paladins and Cavaliers
Inquisitors and Monks both benefit from each other. Though in my opinion the Inquisitor gets a bit more out of two levels of monk than The monk gets out of 2-3 levels of Inquisitor.
+1 to taking a level of Cleric, Oracle, or Wizard
+1 to two levels of Barbarian, Fighter, Alchemist
+1 to taking three levels of Bard, Magus, Rogue, Ranger, Witch
Anything else you might as well ride out to level five.
I like multiclassing to build an archetype. Though I'm not a big fan of hardlined character planning. My characters change as the campaign changes. So I plan to stick to a single class and multiclass if the game calls for it, or fits the theme.
Gravefiller613 |
Check out Multi-class Archtypes for an alternate for dipping.
+1
Though you need to get a jump on the APG Classes if you haven't already.
xorial |
xorial wrote:Check out Multi-class Archtypes for an alternate for dipping.+1
Though you need to get a jump on the APG Classes if you haven't already.
I wish I it was my idea, but the op was somebody else.
TarkXT |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Gelmir wrote:+1 for junkie warrior build4 levels of alchemist for any melee build!
1) Alchemical Allocation + Extend Potion + Lvl 20 potion of heroism = unlimited +2 to hit, +2 to all saves.
2) 40 minutes of mutagen (+4 to strength)
3) Vivisectionist gives 2d6 of sneak attack
4) Provides a bunch of skills (such as disable device)
5) Some handy extracts (englarge person, healing, etc.)
Summary: for a 4 level dip, you get +7 to hit (+3 BAB, +2 str, +2 Heroism)- which means a BETTER to-hit than if you just took 4 levels of fighter), +2 damage, +2 to all saves, 2d6 sneak attack, and a bunch more utility in the form of skills and extracts.
BY far and away, this seems like the best melee dip to me.
andddd now my next character concept is a juicer. thanks.
ericthecleric |
So I’ve been thinking about my PFS character (recently gained level two), a fighter. Is there any reason I shouldn’t aim to take two levels of alchemist- to gain 3x Preserve Organs and Vestigial Arm so he can use a shield while wielding his greatsword? It would mean the loss of 1 point of BAB, armor training 3, and no access to Greater Weapon Specialisation, but I’m thinking the defensive benefits are just too good! He won’t be able to use extracts though (Int 9, up to Int 10 at 4th-level), so I don’t see there being a problem with him wearing full plate- at least, when he can afford it!
threemilechild |
Wildshaping druids have much to gain from taking a single level of monk - wis to AC, punishing kick and a bonus feat as well as a bunch of class skills. Too bad you can't flurry with paws though.
Once it's worthwhile to be a big elemental, you can probably flurry with unarmed strikes.
I had to check your username -- I don't think my boyfriend's played a druid without a level of monk since 3.0. He's sort of (in)famous for it at this point.
Kjeldor |
If your party is poorly composed, a cleric, fighter, monk, and gunslinger such as myself, taking a dip into Archeologist bard, even tho Cha is dump stat, seems worth it. Every knowledge skill I can attempt, drop 1 skill point into the knowledges our group doesn't have and boom, +4 to skill check. Make UMD one of my main skills and suddenly we will be fine without a dedicated arcane caster. Just my opinion tho.
AndIMustMask |
-(crossblooded) sorcerer 1: better blasts (for casties), minor spells, bloodline abilities if you don't wanna invest feats into eldritch heritage
-oracle 1: level 1 revelations (sidestep secret, get more with the extra revelation feat if you meet the level reqs) and utility spells, pick a fluffy or non-problematic curse.
-fighter 1-3: proficiencies, bab, feats, basic or AT abilities
-gunslinger 1-5: good gun stuff, bab, grit, deeds, feats, dex to damage
-paladin 1-3: proficiencies, bab, smite, lay on hands, cha to saves, immunities
-monk 1-3 (MoMS in particular): free style feats, saves, scaling unarmed damage, monk AC, and monastic legacy if you stick around till 3 to get still mind
-barbarian 2: speed +10ft, rage, rage power, uncanny dodge
-bard 1: bardic knowledge (not sure if that goes off just your bard level or your total level)?
-alchemist 1-2: mutagen, throw anything, discovery, poison use, sneak attack if you go vivisectionist
-cleric 1-3: domains/1st power, utility and domain spells (2nd-level at 3rd), channel energy
Conundrum |
PF went to great effort to make "single" classing more attractive, but I still like to multi-class sometimes for the flavor and the mechanics. Some "dips" are more effective and flavorful than others, however. Anyone have any favorites/advice, either from a fluff stand point or from a mechanical one for a level (or three) dip?
For me, it's the Diviner (specialist wizard) for a one level dip. I really like the flavor of trying to reach past the normal limits of perception to gain an advantage, especially for "smart" fighters. And mechanically, muy bueno! Acting in the surprise round, sometimes even before your ambushers? Yes, please! Slight bump to init., use the APG version that let's you see around corners, 3 utility spells (feather fall never goes out of style, nor does True Strike or Endure Elements), access to spell trigger/completion items, a weapon bond (or familiar with lots of hps). What's not to love?
alchemist final answer.
Elosandi |
Wouldn't the fact that you never really get to the beneficial effects of your 'curse' make Oracle bad for dipping?
The level 8 barbarian would disagree.
Oracle curse progresses at 1/2 character level + Oracle level. So you do gain some significant benefits, like immunity to fatigue.
Elder Basilisk |
3 or 4 levels of Magus looks pretty dippable for a high Int, weapon-using character like a lore-warden fighter or a ninja.
You get arcane pool to enhance your weapon, access to arcane strike which will go to +2 if you have the magical knack trait, cantrips, spellstrike for an extra 5d6 shocking grasp or an extra 4d6 frigid touch when you need to move and attack an enemy, and, a flurry of blows like-effect through spell combat when you don't have to move. (You really need 3rd level for the wand-wielder arcana to pull that off; otherwise you will be trying to make concentration checks to cast defensively with a low caster level and moderate Int--not exactly a recipe for success).
Of course, at that point, you may want to start asking yourself why you are just dipping Magus rather than taking it all the way up. But maybe you really like whatever class you started in before the splash.
lemeres |
Well, since the Master of Many styles monk can get style feats as bonus feats while ignoring every prerequisite other than taking other feats within the same style, then you can end up with better stuff than a fighter sometimes. You can get most of a style chain by from two levels with this. If you start out a human monk, you might actually get all of the crane style by level 2 if you take the first style feat with your starting feats. Crane style is still great even if you do not take this option if you tend to have one hand open (spell casters willing to waste a couple levels?) since you can basically negate one melee attack per round.
The fact that it loses flurry of blows is actually a good thing. Without it, you lose one of your main intensives to go without armor or use monk weapons or unarmed strikes alone. That only leaves a boost to speed and a bit of AC while unarmored, so there is no reason to go that route. It also means you do not need great wisdom either. So go with 8 wisdom, fullplate, and greatswords for all that MoMS cares. The fact that it can be stacked with Monk of the Sacred Mountain is just great for making monk a good choice for a few more offensive and defensive options.
Silent Saturn |
Any character that cares about a weapon can probably benefit from a level or two in Fighter. Some benefit more from Barbarian, especially two-handed builds, but Fighter is pretty much the Universal Martial-- there's no combat style it can't pull off.
Conversely, any character that didn't dump at least one mental stat could probably benefit from a dip into Sorcerer. You may need to take the Sage or Empyrial bloodline to cast off your best of the three stats, but if you only take one level and are choosing spells that don't force saves, 11 is enough. Further, the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list is full of all sorts of spells meant to benefit all sorts of characters besides a full-fledged caster. The Fighter can pick up Magic Weapon or Enlarge Person, the Monk can learn Mage Armor, the Rogue gets Grease and Mage Hand, and the Gunslinger learns to cast Jury-Rig and Longshot.